What tier or tiers did you play? Mainly t4 try t5 occassionally to see how long takes but everyone gets bored of it as takes too long.
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 85 mil GP
What teams you did you attempt the raid with? - NS, Imps, Rebels, Jawa, empire/sith. some other random mixes.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? P2 is about the only fun bit. Demotivated P1 needs 1 specific team to do decent damage, i can do lots of damage with a few teams on P1 but noway near from that other team. Once we get to P3 everyone has had enough (running t5) so it takes longer and longer. P4 is ok once Nil is gone but i imagine its going to take awhile to complete. T4 is done quick enough but rewards arent that great, t5 takes far too long and ppl lose interest but has guild tokens. We either need t4 with better rewards for a 2 day effort or a 4.5 tier where the rewards are better than t4 (guild event tokens) and also doesnt take as long as t5.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid? - see above.
In t4 i like p2-4 as i can do good damage but the rewards are pretty shocking for a 2 day raid when you compare what you can get in pit/haat.
T5 rewards are a little better as you get guild event tokens but it just takes too long and everyone loses interest.
TLDR: while the setting and general design are awesome, the difficulty is way too high, Nihilus sucks all the fun out of it, needing certain very hard to get characters to succeed is unreasonable, and the rewards are poor for the time and effort involved
* What tier or tiers did you play?
We started out at 4, and finished a few of those before attempting 5. We spent eight days in Phase 1 before we decided to abandon the raid, and we're back to tier 4.
* What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
66 million
* What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Me, personally:
Resistance (zFinn, Poe, Scav Rey, Pilot, Trooper, all g12, Rey and Trooper g12+1); I've also tried subbing R2 or Barriss for Pilot.
Sith/Empire (g10 zPalpatine, g11 Vader & Maul, g9 Sith Trooper & TFP)
Jedi/Healer (Barriss, JKA, GM Yoda, Ahsoka, Visas Marr, all g11; I just Zeta'd and g12'd Barriss this morning)
Rebels (g9 Wiggs and Chirrut, g10 zHan, g11 zR2D2 [number crunch])
Imperial Troopers (6* g10 Veers, 7* g10 Starck and g9 Storm, Snow & Magma)
Second String Jedi (g10 IGD and Luminara, g11 Mace, and g9 Consular and Plo Koon)
I've been playing for a year now, and I still don't have CLS, Thrawn, or GK, let alone JTR. I am 90% F2P. I know my teams except Resistance are not full strength, but all are well modded. As for the rest of my guild, we have many members with maxed out CLS, Thrawn, and GK teams, and several with JTR, not to mention a large plurality with other rare and powerful characters like Palpatine, Raid Han, and R2.
* What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Credits and guild tokens will always motivate me.
Phases 1 and 4 are very demotivating. Even my Resistance team can barely scratch Nihilus, whose severely overpowered and unpredictable Annihilate combined with unbeatable tenacity and an unreliable Unbreakable Will makes these phases frustrating and stressful instead of a fun challenge. Of my teams, only the Jedi/Healer one can routinely make it to enrage vs. Nihilus. In fact, none of my teams, in any combination, can do more than about 500k damage vs. Nihilus, and most of them do half that or less.
Phases 2 and 3 are more fun because I can actually do decent damage against Sion and Traya, and it feels like I'm actually contributing instead of just doing the minimum.
* What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
I enjoy the rewards when we finally get them, but see below. I love Sith, and I'm a huge fan of KotOR 2, so I think the setting and the theme are awesome. I especially liked the pairing of Sith Marauders and Assassins with the three bosses.
As for dislikes, the difficulty level is way too high for guilds like mine. I know it's supposed to be challenging and difficult, but the talk about "any size guild can participate!" turned out to be misleading, in my opinion. It really means "any size whale-loaded guild with 100 mil+ GP and at least 20 maxed out JTR teams, unless you only do the lowest tiers." Mine is a casual guild, with members of different levels and commitment to the game, yet we still beat HAAT and Heroic Pit on a weekly basis. It takes us at least a week to beat tier 4 STR, and the rewards are paltry for the effort involved.
Also, the stacking tenacity pretty much erases the strength of many of my teams, which rely on debuffs. The nerf to Expose was especially aggravating because it made my best team even less effective against Nihilus than it was at the beginning.
Like someone else said above, it's more of a chore than a challenge, especially in p1 and 4; with HAAT and Heroic Pit, there are many different ways with many different teams to beat the various phases, and the same seems mostly true of STR p2 and 3. Part of the fun is trying out new teams and new characters. In p1 and 4, however, you can only do decent damage against Nihilus with certain rare characters, which most of my guild (and I'm guessing most of the player base, including those who've played for a year or more) do not have.
And sure, it can be seen as motivation to get those characters, but getting JTR means first farming FO characters to 7*, getting BB8, and then farming Finn, Scav Rey, and the Veteran Smugglers to 7*. That is a huge investment in time and effort (and credits, and crystals, and gear), and even if you do all that, you have to wait for the next Rey's Hero's Journey. If every single player in my guild focused exclusively on that, maybe we'd be able to beat higher tiers and in less time, but as I said, we're a casual guild, and everyone (myself included) has different goals and focuses. For F2P players, it feels like STR was made specifically for hardcore players with money to burn.
We had to do a lot of preparation to be able to do HAAT raids, but in the end (and with the help and guidance of our awesome Alliance-mates in WWL) it's been very well worth it. Prepping for HAAT didn't involve anywhere near the singular focus that STR requires.
Anyway, I'm getting long-winded here, so I'll stop. Thank you guys for running the BEST mobile game in the world, and especially for seeking feedback from the community. It's greatly appreciated.
My guild GP is about 45 Million. Progress wise, we are at about 20* in TB and we clear HAAT in a few hours (we have multiple people that can almost solo it).
We are a guild that is very supportive of starting players and this raid is especially punishing for guilds like ours that are all about community over pure performance.
We have done T5 in the past, but this took far too long, so we are condemned to do T4 now. This still takes us multiple days (although this is greatly increased by the massive demotivation in the guild, and thereby lower participation).
I personally use Rebels, Sith (under Nihilus), Ackbar lead/CLS, Night Sisters and Troopers as the 5 teams I use daily, although for some phases I modify this. I will get JTR next time she comes around at which point she will replace my weakest (Sith) team.
There is nothing about this raid that is motivating. Demotivation comes not only from the very weak rewards, the huge amount of time spent (both per day and in number of days) and the incredible discrepancy in rewards between lower tiers and heroic (while heroic raiders get full T12 pieces, we don't even get gear that is on par with a Heroic Rancor raid. Nothing of what we get helps us get anywhere, and only increases the difference between ourselves and people that are in bigger guilds).
What I dislike about the raid ? Well:
- Pigeonholed in what teams are used and even more in what teams are actually good. We are talking about one, sometimes two teams per phase that are actually useful
- Phase 1 mechanics feel like a chore and have a certain element of randomness. This makes it entirely unfun for all but hardcore players. HINT: Certain mechanics should be reserved for Heroic only !
- Phase 2 is good and very well designed
- Phase 3 is bothersome and unpleasant
- Phase 4 has some elements of all other phases.
- The raid is targeted specifically at big guilds that concentrate power and seems intentionally made to screw over anyone who is unwilling or unable to be in such a guild.
In general the raid is simply not made to be enjoyable, only to be hard for whales. In the design of the mechanics the designers clearly wanted to make an MMO-style raid that is very obviously unsuited for a mobile game. This is too demanding on the playtime of the players, and only good for people who are willing or able to spend hours a day in the app.
T6; starting T7
Overall I don’t mind it because it’s something to work towards, but the restarts when you have fully maxed g12 characters to get the RNG you’re looking for is a bit absurd, although I’m sure that will change when the level cap increases, should get much easier.
I don’t have an issue with much else. I like the game.
T6; starting T7
Overall I don’t mind it because it’s something to work towards, but the restarts when you have fully maxed g12 characters to get the RNG you’re looking for is a bit absurd, although I’m sure that will change when the level cap increases, should get much easier.
I don’t have an issue with much else. I like the game.
I would say that gear 12 toons being destroyed so effortlessly is frustrating.
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
103mil
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
MANY combinations of toons.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Motivated? Nothing. I don't want to do it.
Demotivated?
The junk rewards.
The mechanics that make teams useless. The RNG dependence of a good score. The fact that the best toons for the raid can only be unlocked by special events so I can't even work on developing a squad until the events come out, by first working on worthless toons.
The fact that it is SO slow.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Enjoy? "defeated" so i can exit and register my score.
Dislike?
tenacity up. no tm removal. RNG dependence. Stupid abilities (Traya damaging toons for using their own abilities? whoever thought of that is just not clever).
The thing I hate the most is that we can't really work towards anything, if you don't have a high number of JTR in your guild, you can't do the raid. At least with tank, it was difficult, but you could always develop a team and try different combinations, and could contribute your 2% per phase. Now a maxed out squad will be sometimes be lucky to do 0.5% depending on RNG. This is literally endgame stuff, as in the end of your game, especially for middle of the pack guilds/players.
We have received a wide range of feedback about the newest raid, The Sith Triumvirate and we would like to hear more about your experience. Please include the following information in addition to your feedback:
What tier or tiers did you play?
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
1] we are sitting on T3 without seeing much progress
2] we have just crossed 50M GP
3] Throwing basically anything we have. Since we do not have JTR players in the guild, that strategy is forbidden to us and it hurts.
The more advanced players usually attempt Nihilus with the Thrawn-Magmatrooper rapid fire combo (with Deathtrooper, Sabine, and available healer) and DoT team with Vader, Boba Fett, Sidious and such... The 2nd team is unpredictable, not fun to play because of tenacity rollercoaster and multiple retreats required before getting lucky, but can provide results. Various Rebel and Imperial Trooper squads for Sion and Traya and all of these in P4.
But still: Nihilus is what kills this raid. He is unpredictable and has a stupid amount of mechanics, which counter almost any team that attempts to kill it.
Nihilus so far counters: Debuff squads (haha, Tenacity +50% per hit and Ten Down immunity), Buff squads (dispells everything on his basic, buffing himself WHILE reducing cooldowns?) Protection squads (all of his attacks bypass our protection), Counter squads (protection recovery), Assist squads (protection recovery), Fast squads (difficult Unbreakable will timing), Slow squads (will cycle through drain force faster than healer recovers), Tanks (dispells taunts and deals dmg by HP%) and of course TM Reduction squads (High tenacity, but hey, THIS ONE is justified).
Also the fact that Darth Sion is up next, which is the best fight there and maybe best raid fight ever, so that when Nihilus is getting low on HP, vultures flock, waiting for that one guy to slap him down so that rest can enjoy a glorious fight with Mr. Sundered Skin.
Traya is kind-of plain, not bad, but not as fun either (AoE sabers, whack the granny, repeat). Isolate is pain in the rear because unlike P4 there is no way to manage it (couldn't Stand Alone do it? I mean come on, the character is basically isolating himself to fight Traya before reuniting with rest of group)
P4 is then a nightmare. Apart from everything wrong with Nihilus (see above), there are 2 more mechanics that makes this phase feel like you actively want people NOT to play the raid.
issue 1: Traya manipulates (drains from you, adds to mostly Nihilus) Turn Meter. That makes it very, VERY difficult to anticipate incoming Annihilates.
issue 2: Stacks of Pain from Sion counts as debuffs for purposes of Nihilus's Drain Force. With long CD on dispells limited only to healers and supports and shared dispell with Bonds of Weakness, I can only ask WHY???
Also, rewards for T3 Triumvirate are somewhat on par with T4 or T5 Rancor (with more guild currency but not significantly), while the raid takes definitely more commitment and focus than AAT. Rewards should be scaled up.
I enjoy phases 2 and 3 and also a healthy amount of theorycrafting I do for my guild in attempts to overcome this insanely difficult task.
I also have suggestions how to make the playthrough more enjoyable.
1. Make Stand Alone dispell Isolated in P3 so that we can manage it somehow.
2. Drop all protection on Nihilus. He does not need it. The guy has too many mechanics compared to the other 2 bosses. Even though dispells would still be in place, buff groups would be able to do at least some damage. And there would still be plenty of stuff to manage. The counter and assist groups are already punished enough by 5%TM gain on a hit and stacking speed, but if you really needed to, you could add 5% offense per hit to the mix.
3. In phase 4, make Unbreakable Will last not for one turn, but until a character has been hit by Annihilate or Isolation. That would make the phase more predictable. And make it so that Nihilus ignores Pain (or suffering) while using Drain Force. This change would be nice in P1 as well, but there the timing is actually OK and could be fun, if the rest of the phase was not so revolting.
We are a 160M+ GP guild who complete heroic regularly, we only did a single tier 6 at the start to ublock it. We have all of the required teams and complete the raid quite quickly.
The rewards for the heroic tier (specifically the high chance at a full piece of gear) are motivating. So is the ability to unlock Traya of course.
The de-motivating (and unenjoyable) part of the raid are the mechanics. Currently there are not really any useful mechanics to succeed in the raid, it comes down to a lot of rng (which means re-starting multiple times to get a good score). I’d say that this aspect is more prominent in this raid than it ever was in past raids, and it’s the part that is less fun. I’ll add that I realize we are still pretty early on and that this may well be intentional (keeping the heroic tier difficult for now while some newer toons will be released later that make it easier).
What tier or tiers did you play? Played 1-4
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
1st guild is 40 million did tier 4 took a week settled on tier 3 after crushing 2. 2nd guild is 20 million and tier 1-2
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Phase 1 - rebels, bh, troopers, ns
Phase 2 - ps, sith, bh, troopers
Phase 3 - ps, rebels, bh, troopers
Phase 4 - ps sith, bh, nightsisters
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Lackluster rewards for effort put in.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid? Phase 1 and phase 4 Nihilus is just not fun to grind through. We end up having only half the guild contribute to phase 1 because they don’t want to play. I enjoy phase 2 and 3 because damage boosts are fun and I’m able to contribute. Without jtr it’s nigh impossible to get great damage in phase 1.
What tier or tiers did you play? Mostly t4 & t5
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 102 mill
What teams you did you attempt the raid with? Bounty hunters with healers. Nightsisters. Sith. Ackbar led CLS and healers. Thrawn led Troopers.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? Demotivational: P1 and P4. Without a JTR they just take way too long and are far too tempremental to score well in. Rewards, they don't feel like they actually encompass how much time is spent in raid
What about the raid did you enjoy? P2 can be fun. P3 can be too but being unable to cleanse Isolation means restarting the attempt if a key toon gets isolated and that is really irritating when it happens several times in a row.
What did you dislike about the raid? P1, P4 till Nihilus is dead, uncleansable Isolation. Time taken to score well. That nothing else comes close to matching JTR scores. Other teams should be able to score that well too.
It is easy to be an armchair quarterback here and tear down the raid. I would really like to hear from the devs as to what they intended the raid to be, why certain decisions were made, and so on. As my dear mother always says "You weren't born knowing everything". Perhaps not here, but maybe a companion thread. And of course, if they really cannot justify why things are as they are, well "DING DING DING" we have achieved comprehension!
I'm 2,2 mill gp. guild is 36m.
I run jtr resistance, thrawn troopers, cls team, sith doods. nightsisters.
I'm just done, I cant be bothered to do this anymore. I used to out dps everybody in my guild by 100% now im at 6 place bcz my energy and effort are just out of the window for meagre rewards.
We run tier 4. we did one tier 5 it took like 3 weeks.
Rewards are *** compared to effort.
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
1. My guild took a month to do tier 4...which is absurd. So we dropped to tier 2 and were trucking through it pretty well.
2. 2. Our guild is 25 mil gp.
3. Whatever we got.
4. The demotivated is easy...its nahillus very dumb protection gain. No other raid has this...sion and traya dont. So why does nahillus get it. I spent an attack yesterday where nahillus % did not move at all..because he gained protection every time I hit him...this is stupid and absolutely needs to be removed without question. The one good motivation was the rewards after CG buffed rewards...but I imagine the crybaby whales and 2+ year players whined so much, yall nerfed them again to poop rewards...once again showing favoritism to whales and vets but nothing for the younger players...
5. Frankly I enjoy having another raid...it just needed massive more testing before release. The reward system that was updated a few months back was great...who cares about the whales and vets...they were getting traya shards on heroic...while the rest of us got really good raid rewards...then nerfing them back to before to keep the whales and vets happy is just to keep your pockets full of money...
6. The only thing to not like, in my opinion, is the garbage rewards..nahillus protection..and the time it takes to do 1 raid...we took a month for tier 4...so we said this is pointless and really really boring...
What tier or tiers did you play?
o We play 2 * T4 then 1 * T5 to farm currency only
· What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
o 107 Mill – However we have a serious lack of participation
· What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
o Phase 1 - I play Magma Trooper as I don’t have Rey, I can’t be bothered to play any other teams mostly, occasionally I might hit it with another team but I need to be really bored
o Phase 2 - I play a droid team (I have always loved my droids, though I am working on GG, MagmaGuard and B2 in preparation for getting Rey as R2 & BB8 will be needed in the JTR team), however - I don’t generally put any other teams in as it goes too fast (or I miss the phase completely leaving only the magma team in P1).
o Phase 3 - I don’t usually bother
o Phase 4 – I only bother if there is a sliver of life left to help finish the **** thing
· What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
o I don’t like the fact that I have been playing for two year and have a wide and deep roster, but this raid eliminated almost all of my favorite teams that I love playing (and spent a lot of time building) in favor of a new team that I (and most people) don’t have in order to do reasonable damage.
o I don’t like the fact that Rey is probably on a 140 (ish) day Cadence, and if I don’t get her next time I will have another 140 days before I am able to do decent damage (plus gear up time), were mid cycle now and that puts me at 210 days (very roughly) before I will be able to start doing decent damage if I don’t get her next time, and I probably won’t.
o I really don’t like being a guild slacker, or appearing to be, in all other raids and activities I fully participate with the guild, I don’t even auto Rancor or HAAT as I enjoy the mechanics and it is fun to play those raids, I can solo rancor and am improving my teams all of the time for HAAT so that I can better participate in guild events, but on this raid the complexity, team requirements and RNG just make me say “Nope not doing any more than the minimum”.
o I don’t like the fact that this raid seems to be ripping many guilds apart, you mention “community” a lot on the forums, especially when you are making mistakes, Guilds are communities and you are not looking after them, your tearing many apart and demotivating them, guilds are important, it’s what really keeps people playing, I have seen many people state that they only stay for the guild and the people in it (community)..
o Gear drops, what were you thinking, T7 drops G12 full pieces, so shouldn’t T6 drop G11, T5/G10, T4/G9 Etc… why are you only pandering to the heroic capable people when it’s the vast majority that are actually putting more time and effort (agreed with worse toons) into the raid, shouldn’t the reward concept be across the board in principal in order to encourage the player base to improve and attain higher things. Heroic is everyone’s goal, but the lower tiers should be helping people to get to Heroic, not throwing a wall up to stop them.
· What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
o I particularly like the couple of days when we’re taking a break, I like nothing about this raid, it’s far too complex for me and I just don’t have the required toons, throw in bad RNG and everything else stated in this thread and it’s just too much for me to find fun
o I do appreciate (and love) the bounty hunters, they are a great addition to the game, but as they are a PVE specific (confirmed) group they should shine like the Rey teams, and they just don’t, well done but more tweaking required.
o Phase 2 is actually fun for those that don’t have JTR teams, if they can get to it in time before its done.
We are a 111M guild and are slowly transitioning from mostly T4s with the occasional T5 to mostly T5 with the occasional T4 (to avoid losing tickets). We went from taking 2d/phase for T5 on the first raid, to 1d/phase now. Most of our officers use teams suggested by various guides: JTR res, Thrawn lead troopers, called assist jawa eng, classic rebs, zAsajj lead NS, zVader or nil lead sith. Most of the other teams with g12 phoenix, Wampa or hYoda are out of reach for the majority of my guild.
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of motivation to do the raid in our guild. Some are motivated by the higher scores acheived by buffing up anti-STR teams, and others are motivated by the guild coin.
As for the negative comments I've heard from my guild:
P1 is too frustrating and requires too many retreats due to RNG
The raid rewards are not worth the effort, why bother?
I don't have the teams required and it'll take a long time to get them ready
The health is too high for a T5 raid.
Debuffs don't work, half my teams are useless
Some of those I agree with (1,2,4) while others I sympathize with but tend to brush off as general whining. But regardless, we've noticed participation is falling off despite the fact that we can do T5 almost twice as fast now. Tactics have improved, but interest has waned.
As for what I like about the raid personally, P2 and P3 are a lot of fun. P4 can be fun at points if you have the right team (solo Traya is just annoying). P1 could use some tweaking so the deck isn't stacked so heavily against us. A challenge is good, but it's a bit too stacked right now. We can clear it without much trouble, but literally no one enjoys doing it.
And finally - stop rewarding me furnaces! I have nearly 600 and <50 of all other rancor raid gear. I always get furnace salvage drop in my sith rewards, and 75% of the time in rancor (been tracking this for months now). If the gear is weighted, please remove the weighting.
P1 Jtr bb8 r2d2 rey and soldier
P2 aa hyoda gk leia e thwarn
P3 CHex
P4 Dn ns after defeat him f.o. and others
Demotivated
the rewards are very low and not call my atention because alwaes I get gear that has thousands
the mecanics of phase 1 is borring because always DN has protection when isnt necessary
in phase 3 only team can do one time is effective and gain of buff of lightsaber is tiring
in phase 4 the cooldown of Fearsome its confused because all boss has one and active all the same time
We have received a wide range of feedback about the newest raid, The Sith Triumvirate and we would like to hear more about your experience. Please include the following information in addition to your feedback:
What tier or tiers did you play?
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Started T4, most guildies couldn't contribute enough to get us through in a reasonable time (i.e., we maxed tickets again before completing. Now alternate between T2 and 3 to get a break.
A little over 42.5 Mil GP, but we're top heavy (a few high GP with more on the lower/starting out end of GP).
Teams: Zader/Palp/Nihulus/Thrawn/Death Trooper; Ackbar/CLS/Hoda/(2 filler slots, usually GM Yoda and Windu); NS Ventress Lead; FO KRU Lead; Troopers; other spam teams if I get a shot at P2
Motivated: New content; does provide some benefit to lower tier guildies in terms of equipment; pretty steady stream of currency for me.
Non-Motivated: Mechanics based on RNG and not challenge (see: debuffs on basic attacks in P1 feeding Annihilate, Isolate mechanic in P3). Time spent does not equal reward given and rewards do not spread out well in guilds with heterogeneous membership (i.e., you can do lower tiers quicker to get lower tier gear and almost nothing for the folks carrying the raid, or you can do a higher tier and MAYBE get something useful).
Enjoy: The basic premise of the raid as a KOTR fan. SOME of the mechanics are well thought out and offer good risk/reward. P2 and pieces of P3 being prime examples.
Dislike: Nihulus. Basically designed to have no weakness, a counter to every mechanic, and hides behind RNG based mechanics. To a lesser extent, the isolate mechanic KILLS group synergy at random (so why are we building 5 man quads to only use 4 of them?), but I sort of get it's novelty.
We have received a wide range of feedback about the newest raid, The Sith Triumvirate and we would like to hear more about your experience. Please include the following information in addition to your feedback:
What tier or tiers did you play?
T4 sometimes T5
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
79m
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
JTR/BB8/R2/RT/ScavRey, Zader/EP, EP/Zader, Thrawn+Trooper, Trooper, CLS+Rebel, CLS+Zader, Nightsister MT or Asaaj lead, Phoenix, etc
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Overall our whole guild is demotivated. This is a terrible grind without much reward for most of the guild. We are building up lower members at the expense of our heavy hitters. There are only a handful of us putting in maximum effort every day because as soon as one raid finishes, the next is ready to launch and it feels like a chore
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Overall, I like the mechanics, however the health pools on P1 and P4 are insane when combined with the mechanics. Both of those phases drag on and on while 2 and 3 fly by and are fun.
Also to add I know @CG_SBCrumb your new. So when say you all..I'm just saying CG as a whole. No frustration directed to you personally.
My clan is pretty demotivated. I posted a 30 million damage score..but since it took a month...I didn't care.
Here's just an idea of how to fix the raid.
Leave heroic alone...whales and vets will cry but they get traya shards...so stop pandering to them...and care about the rest of the community.
Remove nahillus protection...from all tiers...maybe except heroic.
Starting from tier 6...reduce the max health of each raid boss by 10%...say like... 10% tier 6.
8% tier 5. 6% tier 4. 4% tier 3. 2% tier 2. 1% tier 1.
Make it less time consuming. I think the Darth sion tier is the least annoying one. I enjoy that one.
Q1) What tier or tiers did you play?
Typically Tier 3
Q2) What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
50 Mil - Takes 3 days (4 sets of 5 squads) to complete. Tier 1 takes a whole day to complete.
Q3) What teams did you attempt the raid with?
My usual 5 are:
1.) zzAV(L), Zombie, Daka, MT, Thrawn
2.) Boba(L), Spirit, Acoloyte, Initiate, Talia
3.) Wedge(L), Biggs, CLSz, Ezra, Leia
4.) DN(L), EP, DV, Maul, Sidious
4.) Misc depending on phase
Q4) What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Motivated:
The phases without Darth Nihilus are enjoyable. I particularly like Traya as I feel like there is opportunity for interesting strategies with P3. I feel like Sion is kind of like just stick it on auto and you'll get about the same results if you had played it yourself.
Demotivated:
Darth Nihilus... Everything about him. High Health, Protection Regen, Attack through protection, unpredictable, Extremely RNG dependent. Not enjoyable to have to keep resetting the run until you get one that works just a little bit in your favor. In addition, I'm not convinced his speed stacks always reset after he takes a turn
Q5) What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Enjoy:
Traya
Challenge
Something to grind towards (but currently not sure its worth it)
Dislike:
Rewards to Effort ratio
Ridiculously high health at lower levels. I struggle to reconcile how lower level guilds can possibly beat this in a timely manner. Seems designed to require a 50 member guild each putting out 5 attempts per day. Too much to ask for.
Mechanics that lower level guilds doing lower tiers can't overcome due to roster depth
Darth Nihilus
What tier or tiers did you play?
T6 & Heroic
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
Currently 152M, but also helped a sister guild at 128M do heroic
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
JTR Resistance, GK(L) with Sabine and Leia/Wampa (various combinations), CLS(L) Raid Han +Attackers, OG NS
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Initially, the motivation was conquering new content. But, the rewards were so good that this was plenty of motivation for some time. The most demotivating thing about the raid to date was the recent reward nerf that I expect is coming back. The amount of time and effort needed to get good placement is hard to justify when the rewards are the junk we were getting (pre-full rollback), especially when Traya can be beaten by just any old team in arena. Why should I spend hours (yes, the first few times take actual hours per player just to finish; after that it takes several retries for optimal scores) when the reward character isn't even that good *and* the rewards are awful?
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
The raid itself is mostly well done. I like the cut-scenes, and most of the mechanics. The worst part about the raid is DN, easily. There is absolutely no way to predict his Annihilate, which results in restarts and frustrations. I also don't like the rewards nerf that I expect will be put back in next week. That part is bad. Again, HOURS of playtime per person... the rewards being worse than hAAT is insulting.
@CG_SBCrumb so you've heard the feedback. It's obviously overwhelming. And a hundred of these threads have already been made prior to this one. So the only question left is when is the patch coming to fix it?
What tier or tiers did you play?
Started with T5, cancelled after a couple of days. Continued with T4, took us 2 -3 weeks to complete it... . Decided to do T3 only, takes us about a >week. Did it once. We do it the 2nd time currently. What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
19.5 mill What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Since we only do T3 I have a couple of teams. Best results with Phoenix, Empire and a Bobba Fett led mixed team of some damage doers. What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
I am still motivated to continue trying since I need the currency and credits. But I think that phase 1 and the overall grind (over a week for pretty much no reward) is what the higher lvl players in my guild makes them not care really. What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
The grind aside I personally actually enjoy phases 2 - 4 as the mechanics allow to use the special abilities at the right times when needed. Phase 1 is just annoying cause timing is out of your hands. DN has a cooldown of 4 on his annihilate - yet it goes off in the next turn... I have no idea why... (but according to the update notes there was something fixed with his basic skill). So next time his cooldown is on 4 I go safe just to make sure his annihiliate does not annihilate when it goes off ... but then it does not go and the safe was wasted...
I am aware that I am in a small guild but we are currently running a T3 raid for 3 days now and phase 1 is halfway down... the reason is that the higher lvl players in our guild have lost interest and just don't care really because of the poor rewards. A one week grind for what? Nothing... at least I'd do it for the guild currency and the credits, but looks like the higher lvl players don't give a ****...
Just improve the overall rewards also for lower tears... I am lvl 79, have ~ 470 000 GP and have 5 teams enter the T3 raid each day. Ill try to do my best. I am currently 3rd! That says enough I guess because we have 15 lvl 85 players. But I absolutely understand players not participating as this grind will go on for another week, or even longer, just to get almost nothing.
Starting from tier 6...reduce the max health of each raid boss by 10%...say like... 10% tier 6.
8% tier 5. 6% tier 4. 4% tier 3. 2% tier 2. 1% tier 1.
Make it less time consuming. I think the Darth sion tier is the least annoying one. I enjoy that one.
[/quote]
Actually also I think adding a stagger to nahillus and sion would help...traya has it..take out her sabers..and she falls..
Open to suggestion of course....but per say...
So nahillus tier has unbreakable will...cool cool...let's also add when he attempts to annihilate someone with unbreakable will...he gets staggered...the bounce back from the attack staggers him...
Sion tier...just a thought..but let's say everyone has full stacks of pain. So whenever sion takes 5 hits or 1 hit from each hero with full stacks of pain...he gets staggered...now for fairness, when he gets up from being staggered his next basic attack hits someone with pain for an insane amount of damage. Obviously it would not be fair to stagger right after again...so either put something in place that will make the player dispell the pain..which already exist...or a simpler way would be to remove all stacks of pain when sion gets staggered.
Also if it hasn't been made clear by everyone posting...remove nahillus protection lol.
What tier or tiers did you play?
t6 down to t3 What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
100 mil GP What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
I have the requisite teams, JTR, NS, Sith, Imps, Empire - most all are g12 What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
No way we could do heroic - which has great rewards. So anything under heroic has some of the worse rewards in the game for time spend. What are you guys thinking in the non-heroic tiers? THERE IS NO MOTIVATION. I take 1st pretty much every time, I take the currency. It's nothing of note other then a time suck. What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Probably because I have the teams - I don't see peoples issues with Phase 1 Niles. :: Shrugs :: P2 is okay, p4 is the real drag. Look: Someone already said it, it's a boring time-sucking vampire that doesn't give rewards commensurate with time taken.
This was the essential issue with Tournaments. Did you guys forget???
In tournaments we had a practically endless number of battles to run where only 0.5% of the community could get the unlocked character - the rest of us were just wasting time. Clearly a raid is different - but the main issue of Time Spent verse Rewards are the same - they don't line up.
And it's boring. You can't really do anything to the Raid boss - other then irresistible effects. All the characters we've farmed and geared can't use their kits. You made a slog of a fight and it feels like it.
And now we're stuck with it.
Stuck with it in totality because you're going to release new gear pieces exclusive to the raid...
I think tournaments were worse, but this is a close second to the worst content CG has pushed out on us.
We can clear it without much trouble, but literally no one enjoys doing it.
This is a really important sentence for the Devs to think about.
Even the people that can do it, are not enjoying it.
That's not good.
I doubt anyone in game would complain if it was shut down. No one would miss it.
To the Devs, you tried and built a wonderful looking area, but..the mechanics are completely flawed. There is no shame in admitting it didn't meet expectations, and close it for now, or simply scrap it and move on. With all the glaring issues in game, far too much time has been invested (on both sides), far too many have walked away. Far to many guilds have been crushed, to justify the continued existence of the Sith raid as it is. As is, based on feedback here and those that will not post on forums but have echoed the sentiments others have here, why put any more time into it? Send it back to alpha, revamp the rewards for existing raids, monitor them and you will see the path to your next and future endeavors based on reports etc of success/failures. This is not meant to be a derogatory complaint. Sometimes you just need to cut your loses and walk away.
With 10 days to GDPR launching, you have your schedules jammed with things to address. It speaks highly of your desire to listen and learn by reaching out to us. I'm glad I'm not in your shoes. I hope all goes well and your jobs become fun again (with all the negativity around this raid and your existing workload, I don't envy you).
I despise this raid. I was one of the few that would put the time into it in our guild, but even I have gone to pure auto. Most people hate it and don't want to do it in our guild so I've dropped it back down to T3 and just auto for the currency. Even if the rewards were much better, it still would not be worth the time needed to put up the proper runs for higher tiers.
The best and easiest fix I would say is to only make Annihilate usable if it's available at the start of Nihilus' turn. Get rid of the guessing game "Hmmm he has 3 turns left before Annihilate, but drain is up. Will he land them all or won't he? Will this be a restart or a wasted special ability?" This one little adjustment would at least make the raid semi-tolerable rather than the purely asinine time-sink that it currently is.
The teams I use are empire based, non bossk bounty hunters and first order.
I belive that what demotivated me from trying is the absurdly high difficulty. The bosses have too much tenacity and are immunie to tenacity down. Why? Why can't I put debuffs on them more easily? Why do I need teams that have unresistable stuff? Why do I need Rey (Jedi Training) to beat P1 easily? What if I don't want to unlock her? What if my whole guild doesn't want to unlock her? Are we going to be left behind? I believe there should be other alternatives. Alternatives that don't require event exclusive characters. Also, when playing it, you need to pay attention to a lot of things, like "are my characters debuffed?" "is annihilate ready on nihilus?" "shoudl I activate Unbreakable Will now?" "how many stacks of pain or suffering do my characters have?" "should I soothe now?" "how many stacks of bonds of weakness does Traya have?" "should I use stand alone now?". Those questions are just from P1 to P3. Then on P4 we have this major headache of having to controls all of that at once.
I won't say only bad things about the raid tho. I really enjoyed the environment desing. The level of details and such is amazing. Very well done! :claping_hands: congrats artwork people :claping_hands:
Replies
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 85 mil GP
What teams you did you attempt the raid with? - NS, Imps, Rebels, Jawa, empire/sith. some other random mixes.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? P2 is about the only fun bit. Demotivated P1 needs 1 specific team to do decent damage, i can do lots of damage with a few teams on P1 but noway near from that other team. Once we get to P3 everyone has had enough (running t5) so it takes longer and longer. P4 is ok once Nil is gone but i imagine its going to take awhile to complete. T4 is done quick enough but rewards arent that great, t5 takes far too long and ppl lose interest but has guild tokens. We either need t4 with better rewards for a 2 day effort or a 4.5 tier where the rewards are better than t4 (guild event tokens) and also doesnt take as long as t5.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid? - see above.
In t4 i like p2-4 as i can do good damage but the rewards are pretty shocking for a 2 day raid when you compare what you can get in pit/haat.
T5 rewards are a little better as you get guild event tokens but it just takes too long and everyone loses interest.
* What tier or tiers did you play?
We started out at 4, and finished a few of those before attempting 5. We spent eight days in Phase 1 before we decided to abandon the raid, and we're back to tier 4.
* What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
66 million
* What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Me, personally:
Resistance (zFinn, Poe, Scav Rey, Pilot, Trooper, all g12, Rey and Trooper g12+1); I've also tried subbing R2 or Barriss for Pilot.
Sith/Empire (g10 zPalpatine, g11 Vader & Maul, g9 Sith Trooper & TFP)
Jedi/Healer (Barriss, JKA, GM Yoda, Ahsoka, Visas Marr, all g11; I just Zeta'd and g12'd Barriss this morning)
Rebels (g9 Wiggs and Chirrut, g10 zHan, g11 zR2D2 [number crunch])
Imperial Troopers (6* g10 Veers, 7* g10 Starck and g9 Storm, Snow & Magma)
Second String Jedi (g10 IGD and Luminara, g11 Mace, and g9 Consular and Plo Koon)
I've been playing for a year now, and I still don't have CLS, Thrawn, or GK, let alone JTR. I am 90% F2P. I know my teams except Resistance are not full strength, but all are well modded. As for the rest of my guild, we have many members with maxed out CLS, Thrawn, and GK teams, and several with JTR, not to mention a large plurality with other rare and powerful characters like Palpatine, Raid Han, and R2.
* What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Credits and guild tokens will always motivate me.
Phases 1 and 4 are very demotivating. Even my Resistance team can barely scratch Nihilus, whose severely overpowered and unpredictable Annihilate combined with unbeatable tenacity and an unreliable Unbreakable Will makes these phases frustrating and stressful instead of a fun challenge. Of my teams, only the Jedi/Healer one can routinely make it to enrage vs. Nihilus. In fact, none of my teams, in any combination, can do more than about 500k damage vs. Nihilus, and most of them do half that or less.
Phases 2 and 3 are more fun because I can actually do decent damage against Sion and Traya, and it feels like I'm actually contributing instead of just doing the minimum.
* What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
I enjoy the rewards when we finally get them, but see below. I love Sith, and I'm a huge fan of KotOR 2, so I think the setting and the theme are awesome. I especially liked the pairing of Sith Marauders and Assassins with the three bosses.
As for dislikes, the difficulty level is way too high for guilds like mine. I know it's supposed to be challenging and difficult, but the talk about "any size guild can participate!" turned out to be misleading, in my opinion. It really means "any size whale-loaded guild with 100 mil+ GP and at least 20 maxed out JTR teams, unless you only do the lowest tiers." Mine is a casual guild, with members of different levels and commitment to the game, yet we still beat HAAT and Heroic Pit on a weekly basis. It takes us at least a week to beat tier 4 STR, and the rewards are paltry for the effort involved.
Also, the stacking tenacity pretty much erases the strength of many of my teams, which rely on debuffs. The nerf to Expose was especially aggravating because it made my best team even less effective against Nihilus than it was at the beginning.
Like someone else said above, it's more of a chore than a challenge, especially in p1 and 4; with HAAT and Heroic Pit, there are many different ways with many different teams to beat the various phases, and the same seems mostly true of STR p2 and 3. Part of the fun is trying out new teams and new characters. In p1 and 4, however, you can only do decent damage against Nihilus with certain rare characters, which most of my guild (and I'm guessing most of the player base, including those who've played for a year or more) do not have.
And sure, it can be seen as motivation to get those characters, but getting JTR means first farming FO characters to 7*, getting BB8, and then farming Finn, Scav Rey, and the Veteran Smugglers to 7*. That is a huge investment in time and effort (and credits, and crystals, and gear), and even if you do all that, you have to wait for the next Rey's Hero's Journey. If every single player in my guild focused exclusively on that, maybe we'd be able to beat higher tiers and in less time, but as I said, we're a casual guild, and everyone (myself included) has different goals and focuses. For F2P players, it feels like STR was made specifically for hardcore players with money to burn.
We had to do a lot of preparation to be able to do HAAT raids, but in the end (and with the help and guidance of our awesome Alliance-mates in WWL) it's been very well worth it. Prepping for HAAT didn't involve anywhere near the singular focus that STR requires.
Anyway, I'm getting long-winded here, so I'll stop. Thank you guys for running the BEST mobile game in the world, and especially for seeking feedback from the community. It's greatly appreciated.
We are a guild that is very supportive of starting players and this raid is especially punishing for guilds like ours that are all about community over pure performance.
We have done T5 in the past, but this took far too long, so we are condemned to do T4 now. This still takes us multiple days (although this is greatly increased by the massive demotivation in the guild, and thereby lower participation).
I personally use Rebels, Sith (under Nihilus), Ackbar lead/CLS, Night Sisters and Troopers as the 5 teams I use daily, although for some phases I modify this. I will get JTR next time she comes around at which point she will replace my weakest (Sith) team.
There is nothing about this raid that is motivating. Demotivation comes not only from the very weak rewards, the huge amount of time spent (both per day and in number of days) and the incredible discrepancy in rewards between lower tiers and heroic (while heroic raiders get full T12 pieces, we don't even get gear that is on par with a Heroic Rancor raid. Nothing of what we get helps us get anywhere, and only increases the difference between ourselves and people that are in bigger guilds).
What I dislike about the raid ? Well:
- Pigeonholed in what teams are used and even more in what teams are actually good. We are talking about one, sometimes two teams per phase that are actually useful
- Phase 1 mechanics feel like a chore and have a certain element of randomness. This makes it entirely unfun for all but hardcore players. HINT: Certain mechanics should be reserved for Heroic only !
- Phase 2 is good and very well designed
- Phase 3 is bothersome and unpleasant
- Phase 4 has some elements of all other phases.
- The raid is targeted specifically at big guilds that concentrate power and seems intentionally made to screw over anyone who is unwilling or unable to be in such a guild.
In general the raid is simply not made to be enjoyable, only to be hard for whales. In the design of the mechanics the designers clearly wanted to make an MMO-style raid that is very obviously unsuited for a mobile game. This is too demanding on the playtime of the players, and only good for people who are willing or able to spend hours a day in the app.
Overall I don’t mind it because it’s something to work towards, but the restarts when you have fully maxed g12 characters to get the RNG you’re looking for is a bit absurd, although I’m sure that will change when the level cap increases, should get much easier.
I don’t have an issue with much else. I like the game.
I would say that gear 12 toons being destroyed so effortlessly is frustrating.
T4 or T5
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
103mil
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
MANY combinations of toons.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Motivated? Nothing. I don't want to do it.
Demotivated?
The junk rewards.
The mechanics that make teams useless. The RNG dependence of a good score. The fact that the best toons for the raid can only be unlocked by special events so I can't even work on developing a squad until the events come out, by first working on worthless toons.
The fact that it is SO slow.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Enjoy? "defeated" so i can exit and register my score.
Dislike?
tenacity up. no tm removal. RNG dependence. Stupid abilities (Traya damaging toons for using their own abilities? whoever thought of that is just not clever).
The thing I hate the most is that we can't really work towards anything, if you don't have a high number of JTR in your guild, you can't do the raid. At least with tank, it was difficult, but you could always develop a team and try different combinations, and could contribute your 2% per phase. Now a maxed out squad will be sometimes be lucky to do 0.5% depending on RNG. This is literally endgame stuff, as in the end of your game, especially for middle of the pack guilds/players.
1] we are sitting on T3 without seeing much progress
2] we have just crossed 50M GP
3] Throwing basically anything we have. Since we do not have JTR players in the guild, that strategy is forbidden to us and it hurts.
The more advanced players usually attempt Nihilus with the Thrawn-Magmatrooper rapid fire combo (with Deathtrooper, Sabine, and available healer) and DoT team with Vader, Boba Fett, Sidious and such... The 2nd team is unpredictable, not fun to play because of tenacity rollercoaster and multiple retreats required before getting lucky, but can provide results. Various Rebel and Imperial Trooper squads for Sion and Traya and all of these in P4.
4+5] people actively refuse to play Nihilus for reasons I already mentioned in my previous post
(https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/168385/sith-raid-are-we-missing-something)
But still: Nihilus is what kills this raid. He is unpredictable and has a stupid amount of mechanics, which counter almost any team that attempts to kill it.
Nihilus so far counters: Debuff squads (haha, Tenacity +50% per hit and Ten Down immunity), Buff squads (dispells everything on his basic, buffing himself WHILE reducing cooldowns?) Protection squads (all of his attacks bypass our protection), Counter squads (protection recovery), Assist squads (protection recovery), Fast squads (difficult Unbreakable will timing), Slow squads (will cycle through drain force faster than healer recovers), Tanks (dispells taunts and deals dmg by HP%) and of course TM Reduction squads (High tenacity, but hey, THIS ONE is justified).
Also the fact that Darth Sion is up next, which is the best fight there and maybe best raid fight ever, so that when Nihilus is getting low on HP, vultures flock, waiting for that one guy to slap him down so that rest can enjoy a glorious fight with Mr. Sundered Skin.
Traya is kind-of plain, not bad, but not as fun either (AoE sabers, whack the granny, repeat). Isolate is pain in the rear because unlike P4 there is no way to manage it (couldn't Stand Alone do it? I mean come on, the character is basically isolating himself to fight Traya before reuniting with rest of group)
P4 is then a nightmare. Apart from everything wrong with Nihilus (see above), there are 2 more mechanics that makes this phase feel like you actively want people NOT to play the raid.
issue 1: Traya manipulates (drains from you, adds to mostly Nihilus) Turn Meter. That makes it very, VERY difficult to anticipate incoming Annihilates.
issue 2: Stacks of Pain from Sion counts as debuffs for purposes of Nihilus's Drain Force. With long CD on dispells limited only to healers and supports and shared dispell with Bonds of Weakness, I can only ask WHY???
Also, rewards for T3 Triumvirate are somewhat on par with T4 or T5 Rancor (with more guild currency but not significantly), while the raid takes definitely more commitment and focus than AAT. Rewards should be scaled up.
I enjoy phases 2 and 3 and also a healthy amount of theorycrafting I do for my guild in attempts to overcome this insanely difficult task.
I also have suggestions how to make the playthrough more enjoyable.
1. Make Stand Alone dispell Isolated in P3 so that we can manage it somehow.
2. Drop all protection on Nihilus. He does not need it. The guy has too many mechanics compared to the other 2 bosses. Even though dispells would still be in place, buff groups would be able to do at least some damage. And there would still be plenty of stuff to manage. The counter and assist groups are already punished enough by 5%TM gain on a hit and stacking speed, but if you really needed to, you could add 5% offense per hit to the mix.
3. In phase 4, make Unbreakable Will last not for one turn, but until a character has been hit by Annihilate or Isolation. That would make the phase more predictable. And make it so that Nihilus ignores Pain (or suffering) while using Drain Force. This change would be nice in P1 as well, but there the timing is actually OK and could be fun, if the rest of the phase was not so revolting.
Discussion welcomed
The rewards for the heroic tier (specifically the high chance at a full piece of gear) are motivating. So is the ability to unlock Traya of course.
The de-motivating (and unenjoyable) part of the raid are the mechanics. Currently there are not really any useful mechanics to succeed in the raid, it comes down to a lot of rng (which means re-starting multiple times to get a good score). I’d say that this aspect is more prominent in this raid than it ever was in past raids, and it’s the part that is less fun. I’ll add that I realize we are still pretty early on and that this may well be intentional (keeping the heroic tier difficult for now while some newer toons will be released later that make it easier).
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
1st guild is 40 million did tier 4 took a week settled on tier 3 after crushing 2. 2nd guild is 20 million and tier 1-2
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Phase 1 - rebels, bh, troopers, ns
Phase 2 - ps, sith, bh, troopers
Phase 3 - ps, rebels, bh, troopers
Phase 4 - ps sith, bh, nightsisters
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Lackluster rewards for effort put in.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid? Phase 1 and phase 4 Nihilus is just not fun to grind through. We end up having only half the guild contribute to phase 1 because they don’t want to play. I enjoy phase 2 and 3 because damage boosts are fun and I’m able to contribute. Without jtr it’s nigh impossible to get great damage in phase 1.
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 102 mill
What teams you did you attempt the raid with? Bounty hunters with healers. Nightsisters. Sith. Ackbar led CLS and healers. Thrawn led Troopers.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? Demotivational: P1 and P4. Without a JTR they just take way too long and are far too tempremental to score well in. Rewards, they don't feel like they actually encompass how much time is spent in raid
What about the raid did you enjoy? P2 can be fun. P3 can be too but being unable to cleanse Isolation means restarting the attempt if a key toon gets isolated and that is really irritating when it happens several times in a row.
What did you dislike about the raid? P1, P4 till Nihilus is dead, uncleansable Isolation. Time taken to score well. That nothing else comes close to matching JTR scores. Other teams should be able to score that well too.
I run jtr resistance, thrawn troopers, cls team, sith doods. nightsisters.
I'm just done, I cant be bothered to do this anymore. I used to out dps everybody in my guild by 100% now im at 6 place bcz my energy and effort are just out of the window for meagre rewards.
We run tier 4. we did one tier 5 it took like 3 weeks.
Rewards are *** compared to effort.
1. My guild took a month to do tier 4...which is absurd. So we dropped to tier 2 and were trucking through it pretty well.
2. 2. Our guild is 25 mil gp.
3. Whatever we got.
4. The demotivated is easy...its nahillus very dumb protection gain. No other raid has this...sion and traya dont. So why does nahillus get it. I spent an attack yesterday where nahillus % did not move at all..because he gained protection every time I hit him...this is stupid and absolutely needs to be removed without question. The one good motivation was the rewards after CG buffed rewards...but I imagine the crybaby whales and 2+ year players whined so much, yall nerfed them again to poop rewards...once again showing favoritism to whales and vets but nothing for the younger players...
5. Frankly I enjoy having another raid...it just needed massive more testing before release. The reward system that was updated a few months back was great...who cares about the whales and vets...they were getting traya shards on heroic...while the rest of us got really good raid rewards...then nerfing them back to before to keep the whales and vets happy is just to keep your pockets full of money...
6. The only thing to not like, in my opinion, is the garbage rewards..nahillus protection..and the time it takes to do 1 raid...we took a month for tier 4...so we said this is pointless and really really boring...
o We play 2 * T4 then 1 * T5 to farm currency only
· What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
o 107 Mill – However we have a serious lack of participation
· What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
o Phase 1 - I play Magma Trooper as I don’t have Rey, I can’t be bothered to play any other teams mostly, occasionally I might hit it with another team but I need to be really bored
o Phase 2 - I play a droid team (I have always loved my droids, though I am working on GG, MagmaGuard and B2 in preparation for getting Rey as R2 & BB8 will be needed in the JTR team), however - I don’t generally put any other teams in as it goes too fast (or I miss the phase completely leaving only the magma team in P1).
o Phase 3 - I don’t usually bother
o Phase 4 – I only bother if there is a sliver of life left to help finish the **** thing
· What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
o I don’t like the fact that I have been playing for two year and have a wide and deep roster, but this raid eliminated almost all of my favorite teams that I love playing (and spent a lot of time building) in favor of a new team that I (and most people) don’t have in order to do reasonable damage.
o I don’t like the fact that Rey is probably on a 140 (ish) day Cadence, and if I don’t get her next time I will have another 140 days before I am able to do decent damage (plus gear up time), were mid cycle now and that puts me at 210 days (very roughly) before I will be able to start doing decent damage if I don’t get her next time, and I probably won’t.
o I really don’t like being a guild slacker, or appearing to be, in all other raids and activities I fully participate with the guild, I don’t even auto Rancor or HAAT as I enjoy the mechanics and it is fun to play those raids, I can solo rancor and am improving my teams all of the time for HAAT so that I can better participate in guild events, but on this raid the complexity, team requirements and RNG just make me say “Nope not doing any more than the minimum”.
o I don’t like the fact that this raid seems to be ripping many guilds apart, you mention “community” a lot on the forums, especially when you are making mistakes, Guilds are communities and you are not looking after them, your tearing many apart and demotivating them, guilds are important, it’s what really keeps people playing, I have seen many people state that they only stay for the guild and the people in it (community)..
o Gear drops, what were you thinking, T7 drops G12 full pieces, so shouldn’t T6 drop G11, T5/G10, T4/G9 Etc… why are you only pandering to the heroic capable people when it’s the vast majority that are actually putting more time and effort (agreed with worse toons) into the raid, shouldn’t the reward concept be across the board in principal in order to encourage the player base to improve and attain higher things. Heroic is everyone’s goal, but the lower tiers should be helping people to get to Heroic, not throwing a wall up to stop them.
· What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
o I particularly like the couple of days when we’re taking a break, I like nothing about this raid, it’s far too complex for me and I just don’t have the required toons, throw in bad RNG and everything else stated in this thread and it’s just too much for me to find fun
o I do appreciate (and love) the bounty hunters, they are a great addition to the game, but as they are a PVE specific (confirmed) group they should shine like the Rey teams, and they just don’t, well done but more tweaking required.
o Phase 2 is actually fun for those that don’t have JTR teams, if they can get to it in time before its done.
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of motivation to do the raid in our guild. Some are motivated by the higher scores acheived by buffing up anti-STR teams, and others are motivated by the guild coin.
As for the negative comments I've heard from my guild:
- P1 is too frustrating and requires too many retreats due to RNG
- The raid rewards are not worth the effort, why bother?
- I don't have the teams required and it'll take a long time to get them ready
- The health is too high for a T5 raid.
- Debuffs don't work, half my teams are useless
Some of those I agree with (1,2,4) while others I sympathize with but tend to brush off as general whining. But regardless, we've noticed participation is falling off despite the fact that we can do T5 almost twice as fast now. Tactics have improved, but interest has waned.As for what I like about the raid personally, P2 and P3 are a lot of fun. P4 can be fun at points if you have the right team (solo Traya is just annoying). P1 could use some tweaking so the deck isn't stacked so heavily against us. A challenge is good, but it's a bit too stacked right now. We can clear it without much trouble, but literally no one enjoys doing it.
And finally - stop rewarding me furnaces! I have nearly 600 and <50 of all other rancor raid gear. I always get furnace salvage drop in my sith rewards, and 75% of the time in rancor (been tracking this for months now). If the gear is weighted, please remove the weighting.
89million
P1 Jtr bb8 r2d2 rey and soldier
P2 aa hyoda gk leia e thwarn
P3 CHex
P4 Dn ns after defeat him f.o. and others
Demotivated
the rewards are very low and not call my atention because alwaes I get gear that has thousands
the mecanics of phase 1 is borring because always DN has protection when isnt necessary
in phase 3 only team can do one time is effective and gain of buff of lightsaber is tiring
in phase 4 the cooldown of Fearsome its confused because all boss has one and active all the same time
Started T4, most guildies couldn't contribute enough to get us through in a reasonable time (i.e., we maxed tickets again before completing. Now alternate between T2 and 3 to get a break.
A little over 42.5 Mil GP, but we're top heavy (a few high GP with more on the lower/starting out end of GP).
Teams: Zader/Palp/Nihulus/Thrawn/Death Trooper; Ackbar/CLS/Hoda/(2 filler slots, usually GM Yoda and Windu); NS Ventress Lead; FO KRU Lead; Troopers; other spam teams if I get a shot at P2
Motivated: New content; does provide some benefit to lower tier guildies in terms of equipment; pretty steady stream of currency for me.
Non-Motivated: Mechanics based on RNG and not challenge (see: debuffs on basic attacks in P1 feeding Annihilate, Isolate mechanic in P3). Time spent does not equal reward given and rewards do not spread out well in guilds with heterogeneous membership (i.e., you can do lower tiers quicker to get lower tier gear and almost nothing for the folks carrying the raid, or you can do a higher tier and MAYBE get something useful).
Enjoy: The basic premise of the raid as a KOTR fan. SOME of the mechanics are well thought out and offer good risk/reward. P2 and pieces of P3 being prime examples.
Dislike: Nihulus. Basically designed to have no weakness, a counter to every mechanic, and hides behind RNG based mechanics. To a lesser extent, the isolate mechanic KILLS group synergy at random (so why are we building 5 man quads to only use 4 of them?), but I sort of get it's novelty.
This is a really important sentence for the Devs to think about.
Even the people that can do it, are not enjoying it.
That's not good.
My clan is pretty demotivated. I posted a 30 million damage score..but since it took a month...I didn't care.
Here's just an idea of how to fix the raid.
Leave heroic alone...whales and vets will cry but they get traya shards...so stop pandering to them...and care about the rest of the community.
Remove nahillus protection...from all tiers...maybe except heroic.
Starting from tier 6...reduce the max health of each raid boss by 10%...say like... 10% tier 6.
8% tier 5. 6% tier 4. 4% tier 3. 2% tier 2. 1% tier 1.
Make it less time consuming. I think the Darth sion tier is the least annoying one. I enjoy that one.
Q1) What tier or tiers did you play?
Typically Tier 3
Q2) What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
50 Mil - Takes 3 days (4 sets of 5 squads) to complete. Tier 1 takes a whole day to complete.
Q3) What teams did you attempt the raid with?
My usual 5 are:
1.) zzAV(L), Zombie, Daka, MT, Thrawn
2.) Boba(L), Spirit, Acoloyte, Initiate, Talia
3.) Wedge(L), Biggs, CLSz, Ezra, Leia
4.) DN(L), EP, DV, Maul, Sidious
4.) Misc depending on phase
Q4) What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Motivated:
The phases without Darth Nihilus are enjoyable. I particularly like Traya as I feel like there is opportunity for interesting strategies with P3. I feel like Sion is kind of like just stick it on auto and you'll get about the same results if you had played it yourself.
Demotivated:
Darth Nihilus... Everything about him. High Health, Protection Regen, Attack through protection, unpredictable, Extremely RNG dependent. Not enjoyable to have to keep resetting the run until you get one that works just a little bit in your favor. In addition, I'm not convinced his speed stacks always reset after he takes a turn
Q5) What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Enjoy:
Traya
Challenge
Something to grind towards (but currently not sure its worth it)
Dislike:
Rewards to Effort ratio
Ridiculously high health at lower levels. I struggle to reconcile how lower level guilds can possibly beat this in a timely manner. Seems designed to require a 50 member guild each putting out 5 attempts per day. Too much to ask for.
Mechanics that lower level guilds doing lower tiers can't overcome due to roster depth
Darth Nihilus
T6 & Heroic
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
Currently 152M, but also helped a sister guild at 128M do heroic
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
JTR Resistance, GK(L) with Sabine and Leia/Wampa (various combinations), CLS(L) Raid Han +Attackers, OG NS
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Initially, the motivation was conquering new content. But, the rewards were so good that this was plenty of motivation for some time. The most demotivating thing about the raid to date was the recent reward nerf that I expect is coming back. The amount of time and effort needed to get good placement is hard to justify when the rewards are the junk we were getting (pre-full rollback), especially when Traya can be beaten by just any old team in arena. Why should I spend hours (yes, the first few times take actual hours per player just to finish; after that it takes several retries for optimal scores) when the reward character isn't even that good *and* the rewards are awful?
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
The raid itself is mostly well done. I like the cut-scenes, and most of the mechanics. The worst part about the raid is DN, easily. There is absolutely no way to predict his Annihilate, which results in restarts and frustrations. I also don't like the rewards nerf that I expect will be put back in next week. That part is bad. Again, HOURS of playtime per person... the rewards being worse than hAAT is insulting.
Started with T5, cancelled after a couple of days. Continued with T4, took us 2 -3 weeks to complete it... . Decided to do T3 only, takes us about a >week. Did it once. We do it the 2nd time currently.
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
19.5 mill
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Since we only do T3 I have a couple of teams. Best results with Phoenix, Empire and a Bobba Fett led mixed team of some damage doers.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
I am still motivated to continue trying since I need the currency and credits. But I think that phase 1 and the overall grind (over a week for pretty much no reward) is what the higher lvl players in my guild makes them not care really.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
The grind aside I personally actually enjoy phases 2 - 4 as the mechanics allow to use the special abilities at the right times when needed. Phase 1 is just annoying cause timing is out of your hands. DN has a cooldown of 4 on his annihilate - yet it goes off in the next turn... I have no idea why... (but according to the update notes there was something fixed with his basic skill). So next time his cooldown is on 4 I go safe just to make sure his annihiliate does not annihilate when it goes off ... but then it does not go and the safe was wasted...
I am aware that I am in a small guild but we are currently running a T3 raid for 3 days now and phase 1 is halfway down... the reason is that the higher lvl players in our guild have lost interest and just don't care really because of the poor rewards. A one week grind for what? Nothing... at least I'd do it for the guild currency and the credits, but looks like the higher lvl players don't give a ****...
Just improve the overall rewards also for lower tears... I am lvl 79, have ~ 470 000 GP and have 5 teams enter the T3 raid each day. Ill try to do my best. I am currently 3rd! That says enough I guess because we have 15 lvl 85 players. But I absolutely understand players not participating as this grind will go on for another week, or even longer, just to get almost nothing.
8% tier 5. 6% tier 4. 4% tier 3. 2% tier 2. 1% tier 1.
Make it less time consuming. I think the Darth sion tier is the least annoying one. I enjoy that one.
[/quote]
Actually also I think adding a stagger to nahillus and sion would help...traya has it..take out her sabers..and she falls..
Open to suggestion of course....but per say...
So nahillus tier has unbreakable will...cool cool...let's also add when he attempts to annihilate someone with unbreakable will...he gets staggered...the bounce back from the attack staggers him...
Sion tier...just a thought..but let's say everyone has full stacks of pain. So whenever sion takes 5 hits or 1 hit from each hero with full stacks of pain...he gets staggered...now for fairness, when he gets up from being staggered his next basic attack hits someone with pain for an insane amount of damage. Obviously it would not be fair to stagger right after again...so either put something in place that will make the player dispell the pain..which already exist...or a simpler way would be to remove all stacks of pain when sion gets staggered.
Also if it hasn't been made clear by everyone posting...remove nahillus protection lol.
t6 down to t3
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
100 mil GP
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
I have the requisite teams, JTR, NS, Sith, Imps, Empire - most all are g12
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
No way we could do heroic - which has great rewards. So anything under heroic has some of the worse rewards in the game for time spend. What are you guys thinking in the non-heroic tiers? THERE IS NO MOTIVATION. I take 1st pretty much every time, I take the currency. It's nothing of note other then a time suck.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
Probably because I have the teams - I don't see peoples issues with Phase 1 Niles. :: Shrugs :: P2 is okay, p4 is the real drag.
Look: Someone already said it, it's a boring time-sucking vampire that doesn't give rewards commensurate with time taken.
This was the essential issue with Tournaments. Did you guys forget???
In tournaments we had a practically endless number of battles to run where only 0.5% of the community could get the unlocked character - the rest of us were just wasting time. Clearly a raid is different - but the main issue of Time Spent verse Rewards are the same - they don't line up.
And it's boring. You can't really do anything to the Raid boss - other then irresistible effects. All the characters we've farmed and geared can't use their kits. You made a slog of a fight and it feels like it.
And now we're stuck with it.
Stuck with it in totality because you're going to release new gear pieces exclusive to the raid...
I think tournaments were worse, but this is a close second to the worst content CG has pushed out on us.
I doubt anyone in game would complain if it was shut down. No one would miss it.
To the Devs, you tried and built a wonderful looking area, but..the mechanics are completely flawed. There is no shame in admitting it didn't meet expectations, and close it for now, or simply scrap it and move on. With all the glaring issues in game, far too much time has been invested (on both sides), far too many have walked away. Far to many guilds have been crushed, to justify the continued existence of the Sith raid as it is. As is, based on feedback here and those that will not post on forums but have echoed the sentiments others have here, why put any more time into it? Send it back to alpha, revamp the rewards for existing raids, monitor them and you will see the path to your next and future endeavors based on reports etc of success/failures. This is not meant to be a derogatory complaint. Sometimes you just need to cut your loses and walk away.
With 10 days to GDPR launching, you have your schedules jammed with things to address. It speaks highly of your desire to listen and learn by reaching out to us. I'm glad I'm not in your shoes. I hope all goes well and your jobs become fun again (with all the negativity around this raid and your existing workload, I don't envy you).
We don't bother above T3 anymore.
I despise this raid. I was one of the few that would put the time into it in our guild, but even I have gone to pure auto. Most people hate it and don't want to do it in our guild so I've dropped it back down to T3 and just auto for the currency. Even if the rewards were much better, it still would not be worth the time needed to put up the proper runs for higher tiers.
The best and easiest fix I would say is to only make Annihilate usable if it's available at the start of Nihilus' turn. Get rid of the guessing game "Hmmm he has 3 turns left before Annihilate, but drain is up. Will he land them all or won't he? Will this be a restart or a wasted special ability?" This one little adjustment would at least make the raid semi-tolerable rather than the purely asinine time-sink that it currently is.
My guild is around the 100 to 105 million GP
The teams I use are empire based, non bossk bounty hunters and first order.
I belive that what demotivated me from trying is the absurdly high difficulty. The bosses have too much tenacity and are immunie to tenacity down. Why? Why can't I put debuffs on them more easily? Why do I need teams that have unresistable stuff? Why do I need Rey (Jedi Training) to beat P1 easily? What if I don't want to unlock her? What if my whole guild doesn't want to unlock her? Are we going to be left behind? I believe there should be other alternatives. Alternatives that don't require event exclusive characters. Also, when playing it, you need to pay attention to a lot of things, like "are my characters debuffed?" "is annihilate ready on nihilus?" "shoudl I activate Unbreakable Will now?" "how many stacks of pain or suffering do my characters have?" "should I soothe now?" "how many stacks of bonds of weakness does Traya have?" "should I use stand alone now?". Those questions are just from P1 to P3. Then on P4 we have this major headache of having to controls all of that at once.
I won't say only bad things about the raid tho. I really enjoyed the environment desing. The level of details and such is amazing. Very well done! :claping_hands: congrats artwork people :claping_hands: