Pick the nicest ones, people who want to be rude or mean can deal with getting locked out.
Reading that rank is apparently dependent upon the benevolence of other people and how well they like you.
@xeynx, I agree the crystals also are part of the problem.
Life is all about how your make an impression. If people think you're an a**, you're probably not gonna get a lot of support.
I never said this was a perfect system, but once we've gotten in contact with everyone, not a single person in my arena has actually said "No I want to annoy everyone and snipe you all and make you angrier at me."
I never said this was a perfect system, but once we've gotten in contact with everyone, not a single person in my arena has actually said "No I want to annoy everyone and snipe you all and make you angrier at me."
We actually have someone like that in our fleet shard. It's baffling, but I guess they like wasting crystals and time to make everyone else mad.
I never said this was a perfect system, but once we've gotten in contact with everyone, not a single person in my arena has actually said "No I want to annoy everyone and snipe you all and make you angrier at me."
We actually have someone like that in our fleet shard. It's baffling, but I guess they like wasting crystals and time to make everyone else mad.
I hear you but if you're driving home and someone who got paid out six hours earlier knocks you from first 10 minutes from payout just because he thinks it's funny....you probably won't admire it anymore.
Why do you guys even need to conspire to control top ten. If a few hundred crystals are so important to you maybe you should stop playing so much and work more then you can afford all the crystals you want
Comments like this take away and shred of credibility you may have had.
It’s a competitive game mode and some people are competitive.
That’s like saying that all NFL players should go get jobs so they can buy their own rings.
Why do you guys even need to conspire to control top ten. If a few hundred crystals are so important to you maybe you should stop playing so much and work more then you can afford all the crystals you want
It's not a conspiracy when it's out in the open. As @leef and others have mentioned, it's not 100% guaranteed a spot because you have to get there. However, in my shard chat, which is not indicative of all shard chats, once you're in the top, we actively help each other cycle the top spots for payout. Some payouts only have 1-2 people, some have 6-7. But usually, I'd estimate, it's probably about 17-20 people getting #1 each day.
We have a lot of cool players in our shard chat. We want to avoid screwing each other's payouts that's why we pay attention to when the payouts are.
We work with the mode they gave us. As I mentioned, I'd rather have best rank since last payout, or moving at least part of the crystal rewards to PVE (such as GW or a new mode) would reduce the importance of the arena payouts.
*shrug*
The only way any of that will change is if you come up with some magical mode to generate crystals for players that isn't an arena that also either maintains or increases CG's revenue. At that point, they might listen =p.
(Sorry, this is my cynical side =p)
Life is all about how your make an impression. If people think you're an a**, you're probably not gonna get a lot of support.
I never said this was a perfect system, but once we've gotten in contact with everyone, not a single person in my arena has actually said "No I want to annoy everyone and snipe you all and make you angrier at me."
My argument is it that it shouldn't matter what people think I am, other than a fellow competitor in a game mode designed for competition. I'd rather not have to kiss the ring of self-appointed gate-keepers to get access to the higher Arena ranks in the game, or even have it as an option someone could employ at all.
And of course most people would agree to being included if you ask them. If the options are to get constantly bumped down in rank by a group of people or get handed a virtually guaranteed rank, most people will choose the guaranteed. You're basically a cartel at that point.
It’s a competitive game mode and some people are competitive.
Lol, I'm sorry, but people who cycle shardmates through ranks in a systematic way are basically the opposite of competitive. The truly competitive players are the ones who defy you all, do their best to climb on their own, and play the game as designed, crystal expenditure be darned.
Why do you guys even need to conspire to control top ten. If a few hundred crystals are so important to you maybe you should stop playing so much and work more then you can afford all the crystals you want
Comments like this take away and shred of credibility you may have had.
It’s a competitive game mode and some people are competitive.
That’s like saying that all NFL players should go get jobs so they can buy their own rings.
I agree its a competitive single player game mode. In your argument you are basically now saying its ok for NFL players to collude to fix matches.
Cheating is not being competitive.
Also you are saying my comments take away my credibility, what about yours? The fact that you condone and take part in cheating says alot about your personality and credibility.
First off, it isn't cheating, so there's that.
I don't know anything about the NFL, but in football (soccer) it's not that uncommon to play for the draw in certain situation when it benefits both clubs.That way both teams get 1 point instead of one of them getting 3 points and the other 0 points. It's still highly competative though.
Why do you guys even need to conspire to control top ten. If a few hundred crystals are so important to you maybe you should stop playing so much and work more then you can afford all the crystals you want
Comments like this take away and shred of credibility you may have had.
It’s a competitive game mode and some people are competitive.
That’s like saying that all NFL players should go get jobs so they can buy their own rings.
I agree its a competitive single player game mode. In your argument you are basically now saying its ok for NFL players to collude to fix matches.
Cheating is not being competitive.
Also you are saying my comments take away my credibility, what about yours? The fact that you condone and take part in cheating says alot about your personality and credibility.
1. It’s not cheating
2. I never took a stance on either side, I’m only pointing out that a comment like “get a job” makes you seem petty and dissuades others from taking you seriously.
My point was that you are saying that people who are playing to win should just “get a job and stop worrying about it” and that this is like telling any professional sportsman to “quit playing for the prize and just go buy it”. Whether you prefer to apply that to an NFL player, or a cyclist, or a fisherman doesn’t really matter...for them the payoff is to succeeed at their game.
This is a game and crystals allow for progression. Players who desire to build their rosters quickly and compete at the top end of the game want crystals, while part of the allure for them is also to place highly in arena to maximize their income.
To say “stop worrying about top ranks and just buy your crystals” makes no sense in this context. By extension of your argument we should all just delete the game and send EA a cheque every month.
No but openly fixing the top 10 positions in the premier league would not go down well to put it mildly would it?
That is what you are doing.
That's actually not what i'm doing at all. What i'm doing is much closer to going for the draw when it benefits both, not that you care as long as you can point your finger.
Regardless, the point was that it's not unheard of to cooperate with the competition in sports, wihtout the sport not being competative anymore. The same applies to the swgoh arena.
Also, fixing the top10 in the premier league isn't really the same as controlling the top10 in arena. If the swgoh arena was a competation/league instead of this weird ladder system, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.
Last I checked, players in the NFL play to receive money, because that's their job.
They don't try to win football games for crystals while driving home from work or reading to their kids.
Lol, no, they're just away from home and their families for weeks at time while actively competing. Not sure these sports analogies are really working for either side of the debate.
It doesnt matter how you all excuse it, it is cheating regardless.
But I do understand that there are plenty of people around who have no morals and will do anything to benefit themselves and I have no choice but to live with that.
Does not mean I will join the club.
actually, it doesn't matter what you say it is, as long as ea/cg don't consider it cheating, it isn't cheating. It's as simple as that.
You obviously don't have to join the club, you can do whatever you want. You can refresh 4 times just to screw with people's pay-out. There's no rule against that either. I can imagine the players on your leaderboard would want you to join the shard chat if you did that.
End of the day shardchats just make arena more managable. Unfortunately there are also shardchats that actively target other players to prevent them from taking a high rank, making their arena experience alot less pleasant. That still doesn't mean that all shardchats are bad, take away the competative aspect of arena and guarantee a select few players alot of daily crystals. The fact that players are cooperating in a competative game mode isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Also, if you really want to get rid of cooperation, suggest something that doesn't hurt top ranked players. I for one would love a system where in i wouldn't have to snipe/lock right before pay-out. With that out of the way, there wouln't be a need to work together in the first place. Everything you suggested thusfar would make arena worse for top ranked players than it would have been if there was no cooperation to begin with. Surely you understand those suggestions are met with a fair amount of resistance, moreso when it seems to come from spite.
I'm sure when someone comes up with a great sollution, even the players that are on shardchats (atleast some of them) will support it.
Also, if you really want to get rid of cooperation, suggest something that doesn't hurt top ranked players.
How does it hurt top ranked players to search for a way to make sure they play the game the same as the majority of players under them? I'm guessing the answer will be "not get as many crystals" and "will have to camp a payout time" ... just like many, many other players experience.
Also, could you please explain what entitles a player to be "top ranked" and no longer experience the same ranking woes as everybody else?
Also, if you really want to get rid of cooperation, suggest something that doesn't hurt top ranked players.
How does it hurt top ranked players to search for a way to make sure they play the game the same as the majority of players under them? I'm guessing the answer will be "not get as many crystals" and "will have to camp a payout time" ... just like many, many other players experience.
Also, could you please explain what entitles a player to be "top ranked" and no longer experience the same ranking woes as everybody else?
Also, if you really want to get rid of cooperation, suggest something that doesn't hurt top ranked players.
How does it hurt top ranked players to search for a way to make sure they play the game the same as the majority of players under them? I'm guessing the answer will be "not get as many crystals" and "will have to camp a payout time" ... just like many, many other players experience.
If you're not a top ranked player, you don't have to camp at pay out to begin with, so if that's what you mean by "play the game the same as the majority of the players" i really wish you could come up with a suggestion that made that possible
Also, could you please explain what entitles a player to be "top ranked" and no longer experience the same ranking woes as everybody else?
Being better than pretty much everyone else on that leaderboard entitles a player to be top ranked.
SOmehow you can't seem to understand what it takes to be a topranked player, you seem to think it's super easy once you're on a shardchat or something. It just isn't. If you're getting dropped for #1 to #100 overnight, a shardchat isn't going to help you get back up. It may prevent you from being sniped once you're top 3 again, but i doubt anyone is making that climb daily.
Here's another couple of questions. Answer them honestly, please.
Does every player in every shard have equal and open access to every relevant shard chat? Yes or no?
Also to the second point while I can't speak for every shard chat, I know in the ones I'm in the only people who get targeted (and it isnt everyone in the chat, it's only a couple people who get affected by that player) are people who climb outside their payout and mess with other players payouts repeatedly.
I think there are some misconceptions about the evils of shard chats out there.
Even before I was in a shard chat, I would avoid attacking people I perceived to be in my payout, those who seemed active at the same time as me. It wasn't collusion; it was intelligent behavior to maximize my rewards. In turn I hoped that those people wouldn't snipe me in the hour before payout, because it really only worked to hurt us all. I also saved my attacks for the hour before my payout, to avoid screwing with people in payouts before mine. All this just seemed like the logical best way to play it for everyone in the shard, to maximize everyone's rewards including mine.
Now that I am in a shard chat, that same behavior is happening, just in a more organized way. I don't doubt there are horrible shard gangs out there that lock everyone out of the top 10 all day, but I really don't think that's how most shard chats are.
Also, I wasn't capable of taking advantage of the shard chat until I had a good enough team to climb to the top. When I was hovering around top 50 and couldn't beat the top 20 teams, no chat would have helped me.
I'm not in a shard chat, simply because I don't think one exists in my shard (yet). I place 1-3 most nights, sometimes 5 or even 7 if my timing really stinks.
It's the same group of people at the top. It'd be super easy and less stressful if we had a way to communicate payout times to prevent interfering with the other guys rewards. I try not to climb outside of the hour prior to my payout, for this exact reason. I have no interest in preventing people from climbing - I just want to avoid a back-and-forth with a guy who's payout is 3 hours off from mine. That situation doesn't benefit either of us. Your rank only matters AT payout. You can be the last place guy in your shard the other 23:59:59 and it won't affect your payout.
Instead of a chat, you have to play the snipe and lock dance, which is time consuming and can be actually detrimental to others, since when locking you're inevitably preventing your opponent from doing anything for 7:30 as well.
But none of this matters, since the anti-chat folks are convinced that anyone at the top is actively stopping them from climbing via some secret cabal.
I'm not in a shard chat, simply because I don't think one exists in my shard (yet). I place 1-3 most nights, sometimes 5 or even 7 if my timing really stinks.
It's the same group of people at the top. It'd be super easy and less stressful if we had a way to communicate payout times to prevent interfering with the other guys rewards.
Try finding them here, or failing that, look them up on gg, look their guild up, and find their guildmates here. I've done that second method several times to bring people into our fleet chat.
Replies
Life is all about how your make an impression. If people think you're an a**, you're probably not gonna get a lot of support.
I never said this was a perfect system, but once we've gotten in contact with everyone, not a single person in my arena has actually said "No I want to annoy everyone and snipe you all and make you angrier at me."
We actually have someone like that in our fleet shard. It's baffling, but I guess they like wasting crystals and time to make everyone else mad.
In a way, i kinda admire that approach.
Comments like this take away and shred of credibility you may have had.
It’s a competitive game mode and some people are competitive.
That’s like saying that all NFL players should go get jobs so they can buy their own rings.
It's not a conspiracy when it's out in the open. As @leef and others have mentioned, it's not 100% guaranteed a spot because you have to get there. However, in my shard chat, which is not indicative of all shard chats, once you're in the top, we actively help each other cycle the top spots for payout. Some payouts only have 1-2 people, some have 6-7. But usually, I'd estimate, it's probably about 17-20 people getting #1 each day.
We have a lot of cool players in our shard chat. We want to avoid screwing each other's payouts that's why we pay attention to when the payouts are.
We work with the mode they gave us. As I mentioned, I'd rather have best rank since last payout, or moving at least part of the crystal rewards to PVE (such as GW or a new mode) would reduce the importance of the arena payouts.
*shrug*
The only way any of that will change is if you come up with some magical mode to generate crystals for players that isn't an arena that also either maintains or increases CG's revenue. At that point, they might listen =p.
(Sorry, this is my cynical side =p)
My argument is it that it shouldn't matter what people think I am, other than a fellow competitor in a game mode designed for competition. I'd rather not have to kiss the ring of self-appointed gate-keepers to get access to the higher Arena ranks in the game, or even have it as an option someone could employ at all.
And of course most people would agree to being included if you ask them. If the options are to get constantly bumped down in rank by a group of people or get handed a virtually guaranteed rank, most people will choose the guaranteed. You're basically a cartel at that point.
Lol, I'm sorry, but people who cycle shardmates through ranks in a systematic way are basically the opposite of competitive. The truly competitive players are the ones who defy you all, do their best to climb on their own, and play the game as designed, crystal expenditure be darned.
First off, it isn't cheating, so there's that.
I don't know anything about the NFL, but in football (soccer) it's not that uncommon to play for the draw in certain situation when it benefits both clubs.That way both teams get 1 point instead of one of them getting 3 points and the other 0 points. It's still highly competative though.
1. It’s not cheating
2. I never took a stance on either side, I’m only pointing out that a comment like “get a job” makes you seem petty and dissuades others from taking you seriously.
My point was that you are saying that people who are playing to win should just “get a job and stop worrying about it” and that this is like telling any professional sportsman to “quit playing for the prize and just go buy it”. Whether you prefer to apply that to an NFL player, or a cyclist, or a fisherman doesn’t really matter...for them the payoff is to succeeed at their game.
This is a game and crystals allow for progression. Players who desire to build their rosters quickly and compete at the top end of the game want crystals, while part of the allure for them is also to place highly in arena to maximize their income.
To say “stop worrying about top ranks and just buy your crystals” makes no sense in this context. By extension of your argument we should all just delete the game and send EA a cheque every month.
Regardless, the point was that it's not unheard of to cooperate with the competition in sports, wihtout the sport not being competative anymore. The same applies to the swgoh arena.
Also, fixing the top10 in the premier league isn't really the same as controlling the top10 in arena. If the swgoh arena was a competation/league instead of this weird ladder system, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.
They don't try to win football games for crystals while driving home from work or reading to their kids.
Lol, no, they're just away from home and their families for weeks at time while actively competing. Not sure these sports analogies are really working for either side of the debate.
You may consider it unethical, and that's your opinion, but calling it cheating is false.
actually, it doesn't matter what you say it is, as long as ea/cg don't consider it cheating, it isn't cheating. It's as simple as that.
You obviously don't have to join the club, you can do whatever you want. You can refresh 4 times just to screw with people's pay-out. There's no rule against that either. I can imagine the players on your leaderboard would want you to join the shard chat if you did that.
End of the day shardchats just make arena more managable. Unfortunately there are also shardchats that actively target other players to prevent them from taking a high rank, making their arena experience alot less pleasant. That still doesn't mean that all shardchats are bad, take away the competative aspect of arena and guarantee a select few players alot of daily crystals. The fact that players are cooperating in a competative game mode isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Also, if you really want to get rid of cooperation, suggest something that doesn't hurt top ranked players. I for one would love a system where in i wouldn't have to snipe/lock right before pay-out. With that out of the way, there wouln't be a need to work together in the first place. Everything you suggested thusfar would make arena worse for top ranked players than it would have been if there was no cooperation to begin with. Surely you understand those suggestions are met with a fair amount of resistance, moreso when it seems to come from spite.
I'm sure when someone comes up with a great sollution, even the players that are on shardchats (atleast some of them) will support it.
How does it hurt top ranked players to search for a way to make sure they play the game the same as the majority of players under them? I'm guessing the answer will be "not get as many crystals" and "will have to camp a payout time" ... just like many, many other players experience.
Also, could you please explain what entitles a player to be "top ranked" and no longer experience the same ranking woes as everybody else?
What’s your arena rank! . . No seriously , what?
Being better than pretty much everyone else on that leaderboard entitles a player to be top ranked.
SOmehow you can't seem to understand what it takes to be a topranked player, you seem to think it's super easy once you're on a shardchat or something. It just isn't. If you're getting dropped for #1 to #100 overnight, a shardchat isn't going to help you get back up. It may prevent you from being sniped once you're top 3 again, but i doubt anyone is making that climb daily.
However CG already told they are not changing the arena-system as it is now. They know of shard chats and they dont care.
The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
Even before I was in a shard chat, I would avoid attacking people I perceived to be in my payout, those who seemed active at the same time as me. It wasn't collusion; it was intelligent behavior to maximize my rewards. In turn I hoped that those people wouldn't snipe me in the hour before payout, because it really only worked to hurt us all. I also saved my attacks for the hour before my payout, to avoid screwing with people in payouts before mine. All this just seemed like the logical best way to play it for everyone in the shard, to maximize everyone's rewards including mine.
Now that I am in a shard chat, that same behavior is happening, just in a more organized way. I don't doubt there are horrible shard gangs out there that lock everyone out of the top 10 all day, but I really don't think that's how most shard chats are.
Also, I wasn't capable of taking advantage of the shard chat until I had a good enough team to climb to the top. When I was hovering around top 50 and couldn't beat the top 20 teams, no chat would have helped me.
It's the same group of people at the top. It'd be super easy and less stressful if we had a way to communicate payout times to prevent interfering with the other guys rewards. I try not to climb outside of the hour prior to my payout, for this exact reason. I have no interest in preventing people from climbing - I just want to avoid a back-and-forth with a guy who's payout is 3 hours off from mine. That situation doesn't benefit either of us. Your rank only matters AT payout. You can be the last place guy in your shard the other 23:59:59 and it won't affect your payout.
Instead of a chat, you have to play the snipe and lock dance, which is time consuming and can be actually detrimental to others, since when locking you're inevitably preventing your opponent from doing anything for 7:30 as well.
But none of this matters, since the anti-chat folks are convinced that anyone at the top is actively stopping them from climbing via some secret cabal.
Try finding them here, or failing that, look them up on gg, look their guild up, and find their guildmates here. I've done that second method several times to bring people into our fleet chat.