SOLO and Last Jedi

KyloStimpyOfficial
8 posts Member
edited May 2018
Look, I just saw the announcement for Han #5 and I get that there's a new movie and all...

The thing is, I feel like EA is really missing the mark on what players and Fans want.

First of all, from the bottom of my heart I need to tell you that if SWGOH *doesn't* get a Young Lando characer AND a Lando's Falcon ship - its definitely going to make this game significantly less cool.

TLJ came out months ago, and we still don't have an Old Jedi Luke, we don't have Praetorian Guards, we don't have Snoke...

And honestly, the fact that HOLDO doesn't have a leadership ability OR A SHIP - It makes it look like someone at EA either isn't paying attention, or they don't care.

Resistance Bombers would be nice... but the fact that Holdo doesn't have a ship at ALL really bothers me.

The game has some very dissapointing omissions from TLJ... Pease do Solo *Right*.

Please, please give us Young Lando and Lando's Falcon.

I love Star Wars, and I care about this game. There are some major chunks of TLJ that are just missing. Please don't make the same mistake with Solo.

Thank you.

Replies

  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    The thing is, I feel like EA is really missing the mark on what players and Fans want.
    I really wish folks would stop using this as a rhetorical device.

    Most everyone here is a fan. When you say this, you are speaking on behalf of all of us. You are speaking on behalf of me. The fact that I disagree with you makes you wrong by the structure of your own argument in this sentence.

    Do not speak on behalf of others in this manner. It's polarizing, lends you no weight, and makes you come across as a coward unwilling to speak with conviction from your own voice.

    Your opening post is short form persuasive writing that begins by putting words in the mouths of everyone you're trying to persuade, which does not benefit you.

    Now, then.

    This game is an ongoing project, with many plates spinning simultaneously. Many things that will be in the game are not here yet. You are complaining at once about things not coming out fast enough, and things coming out not to your liking.

    Let's talk about Amilyn.

    December 15th, The Last Jedi dropped. January 25th, Rose and Amilyn were released. In between, you have the cataclysmic apocalypse to all long term project productivity. Christmas and New Years, during which I sincerely hope the majority of the staff had time off to spend with their families.

    A character isn't just popped fully formed from the aether. There's a development cycle. Concept, fitting it within a faction, balancing it against a faction's needs, assessing interactions with other game mechanics, actually developing the abilities, coding, art assets, testing.

    This process is long, and it is slow, because despite how much this fandom loves to complain, this is a high quality, high production value game. A lot of the time, release characters are made before the movie hits theaters, and before the devs have seen it, and are made essentially off of notes. These notes don't necessarily have perfect context or accuracy, or things like "Lauren Dern is amazing." It's why Bistan and Pao are in the game despite their appearance in the movie being measured in frames; earlier drafts of Rogue One featured them more prominently, but they were mostly cut.

    So, sometimes the representation isn't a hundred percent. Amilyn doesn't get a lead.

    There's also the practical consideration. What does Resistance need? It's not another leadership ability. They have two of the best in the game. If Amilyn had one, it would either have to be something powerful and complicated that would require a lot of design zots, or it would be useless for anything but GP like Poe's. So yes, Amilyn has no leadership ability.

    As for the ship? If you've been paying attention to announcements, the devs aren't terribly fond of how ships works right now, and they're doing a complete overhaul. Ships 2.0 is going to drop in the relatively near future, and that is a massive undertaking. If Amilyn had a ship, it would likely be a capital ship, which is the foundation on which fleets are build and a much larger undertaking than any individual ship. With an overhaul in the cards, releasing a new capital ship would be a Bad Idea. Any ship Amilyn may have is most wisely scheduled to the right of the overhaul to mitigate rework.

    Once Rose and Amilyn dropped, there are other issues. The movie release can't dominate everything forever, and the Solo movie is coming very soon after TLJ, which distorts events. Also, the release of Dark Side Territory Battles revealed just how skewed the roster had become to the light, which was counterbalanced with the Sith content, and a huge amount of development assets went into the Sith raid, then the bounty hunter rework to also shore up dark side, and that presses us up to another movie release.

    Where does it make sense to put Snoke or Master Luke in this flurry of events? To the right, because those are not characters you want to get wrong. If and when they are added to the game, they can't be ones made off of notes, so the dust has to settle around the movie before the devs can do them justice, and any new Luke release is going to be among the biggest events in the game's history. Plus, the movie already got its big, huge, ultimate character of ultimate destiny for the time being in Jedi Rey.

    There's also the matter of rationing, and the scheduling lull. After Solo drops, there will be a year and a half lull before the next movie. This is the place it makes most sense to put a lot of more involved projects, and that gap will need to be filled with content.

    Doing something right takes time. Rebels was I believe half way or more through its run before they released Phoenix Squadron, but when they did, they produced a team that reflects our Phoenix kids much better than they would have been able to do from concept art and season one script notes.

    Also, what "the fans" want varies dramatically from one person to the next. I don't care if we get another Falcon. Do I want a Young Lando? Sure. Donald Glover is great. But you know what would get me REALLY excited? L3-37 and Therm Scissorpunch. And I'm less interested in seeing Snoke and the Praetorian Guards in the game than I am in seeing DJ or BB-9E in the game. One true fan's must is not the same as another's. If you have any doubts about that, bring up the subject of clone helmets around here.

    There's also the issue that the next movie after Solo is a third movie in a trilogy therefore much less likely to introduce a lot of new characters, so it makes sense to keep some characters in the can, but that sounds less like a role for Luke and Snoke, and more a role for Hux.

    So. I am a fan. I loves me some Star Wars. And while I'm doing a fair amount of speculating, when I look at the way this game is going from a design perspective, I have to agree that they're generally the right decisions for the purpose of putting out a quality Star Wars experience, and I respect the restraint to not immediately try and rush all the content out the door immediately.
    Still not a he.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Misspelled insults. An excellent way to be taken seriously.

    Now, then.

    The product is not every significant character in every movie. Nor is it those characters released in order of importance, or order of your personal preference.

    The product is the game. Not releasing the specific character you want when you want them is not a failure to deliver. They never committed to releasing hermit Luke or Snoke at all, let alone on your time table.

    TLJ had eight toons drop. Most of them arena viable. This included the second largest event in the game's history, second only to Commander Luke. To call that a decline because it didn't include specific characters you were interested is willfully ignorant. Three resistance toons, one of whom transforms the faction, three first order toons, one of whom transforms the faction, and two ships. Then they move on to other factions. Gotta keep the production moving.

    Star Wars is big. There will always be more characters who genuinely deserve a spot in the game but don't have one, or don't have one yet. That is not failure.

    That you, personally, think Amilyn should have a capital ship and a leader ability does not mean that her release is in any way deficient. That you, personally, think the correct approach to a ships system that the devs have deemed in need of a major overhaul is to throw another capital ship at it is a sign of your own poor judgment, not a sign of the devs' "failure" to give her a capital ship.

    Everyone has different ideas and desires, and the devs will never fill all of them for everyone. Padme Amidala, B1 battle droids, Dr. Aphra, Grand Admiral Sloane, a ship for Anakin. All things varying numbers of people want in the game. That does not mean the devs have failed. You are personally invested in a Young Lando toon and a Lando Falcon. That does not mean that if they don't show up in the game shortly after release that the devs have failed at the Solo release.

    And while others may have similar opinions to you, you speak for no one but yourself. To put words in others' mouths, or conjure a posse from the presumption that someone else must think like you is weak. You speak for no one but yourself unless others cede their voice to you. So speak with your own voice without reservation instead of inventing a tribe.
    Post edited by YaeVizsla on
    Still not a he.
  • CCyrilS
    6732 posts Member
    Could you elaborate please? Lol jk... Well said.
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    Tore him a new one lol.
  • Let's just hope Solo is much better than the steaming dumpster fire known as TLJ...
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    What are you talking about? We got eight units from TLJ, six of whom are still arena viable, and two of whom revitalized their respective factions.
    Still not a he.
  • I loved TLJ and so will your kids.

    I like it EVEN MORE than the Original Trilogy Re-releases. I'll take Rose Tico over that singing tick in Jabba's palace ANY DAY.

    I can't believe how so many hardcore ESB fans completely miss how their criticisms of TLJ echo the criticisms people had with ESB back in 1979. "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KILLED HAN SOLO!"... "VADER CAN'T BE LUKES FATHER! THAT MAKES NO SENSE!"... "LANDO BEING HAN'S FRIEND IS JUST RIGHT-WING P.C. PROPAGANDA! LOOK AT HIM! HE'S A *BLACK* GUY!!!" - People REALLY DID say all that stuff about ESB back in the day, and now the original version is the most revered and respected film in the entire Star Wars franchise.

    History repeats itself, and your kids are going to love TLJ even more than they like ESB...

    You'll see.

    Anyway, @Yae Vizsla-

    That was a low-blow getting my post deleted. I was furious at first, but an hour later when I read your response I actually to laugh about the situation...

    OK. Ok. Look, When I was talking about "decline" I was refering to what I had previously perceived as a decline in "quality", not a decline in business revenue. I've only been playing this game since Febuary, and since that time I've spent a little under two thousand dollars on my SWGOH account. Obviously, the overall quality is good enough that SWGOH has completely taken over the marketshare dollars that I MYSELF would normally be spening on Magic Cards. I've been playing Magic for a long, long time and the fact that I haven't bought even one booster box since Christmas is pretty strong evidence that EA *is* doing a good job.

    Furthermore, when it comes to TLJ, perhaps my vision was a bit clouded. I'm mostly spending my money because I'm chasing Jedi Rey, and MAN - EA has set up a magnificent situation with her. I would straight-up trade my Mishra's Workshop for that toon RIGHT NOW if I had the chance.

    KRU is 100% top-notch, and probably my Favorite Character. FO Excecutioner is solid. FOSFTP is solid. FO SF Tie Fighter is pretty good... and Kylo Ren's Tie Silencer is absolutely my Favorite ship in the entire game. (and I'm a ships guy)

    Aside from the "holy smokes - please take my money" level of AMAZING that Jedi Rey IS, Holdo and Rose Tico were dissapointing compared to all the rest.

    And they didn't have to be...

    and I don't want it to be that way.

    I love this stoopid game.

    But I'm also mad. I'm upset because I feel like the parts I think are missing should have been Obvious to these people that have been so excellent at getting me all these OTHER things I have wanted...

    Holdo needs a ship and a leadership ability.

    Young Lando and Lando's Falcon are important things to include for the solo Release.

    .
    .
    .
    I wish I could have Kylo Ren and Jedi Rey fight a bunch of Prateorian Guards... I really, deeply want that... I've wanted that since the first day I picked up this game...
    .
    .
    .
    ...and if they throw a Porg in there I'd probably rob a bank and sell my wifes Lincoln Navigator to get it - even if it does NOTHING... Actually, *especially* if it does nothing.

    .

    I must be crazy.
    I'm not even mad at you Yae.
    For some reason, I think I might even like you.

    Henceforth, I'll try not to speak for myself as a personal collective... but don't You nitpick my english or my compositional structure anymore either -OK? It sets me off.

    :wink:

    Valar Dohaeris
  • 1:16PM
    I loved TLJ and so will your kids.

    I like it EVEN MORE than the Original Trilogy Re-releases. I'll take Rose Tico over that singing tick in Jabba's palace ANY DAY.

    I can't believe how so many hardcore ESB fans completely miss how their criticisms of TLJ echo the criticisms people had with ESB back in 1979. "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KILLED HAN SOLO!"... "VADER CAN'T BE LUKES FATHER! THAT MAKES NO SENSE!"... "LANDO BEING HAN'S FRIEND IS JUST RIGHT-WING P.C. PROPAGANDA! LOOK AT HIM! HE'S A *BLACK* GUY!!!" - People REALLY DID say all that stuff about ESB back in the day, and now the original version is the most revered and respected film in the entire Star Wars franchise.

    History repeats itself, and your kids are going to love TLJ even more than they like ESB...

    You'll see.

    Anyway, @Yae Vizsla-

    That was a low-blow getting my post deleted. I was furious at first, but an hour later when I read your response I actually to laugh about the situation...

    OK. Ok. Look, When I was talking about "decline" I was refering to what I had previously perceived as a decline in "quality", not a decline in business revenue. I've only been playing this game since Febuary, and since that time I've spent a little under two thousand dollars on my SWGOH account. Obviously, the overall quality is good enough that SWGOH has completely taken over the marketshare dollars that I MYSELF would normally be spening on Magic Cards. I've been playing Magic for a long, long time and the fact that I haven't bought even one booster box since Christmas is pretty strong evidence that EA *is* doing a good job.

    Furthermore, when it comes to TLJ, perhaps my vision was a bit clouded. I'm mostly spending my money because I'm chasing Jedi Rey, and MAN - EA has set up a magnificent situation with her. I would straight-up trade my Mishra's Workshop for that toon RIGHT NOW if I had the chance.

    KRU is 100% top-notch, and probably my Favorite Character. FO Excecutioner is solid. FOSFTP is solid. FO SF Tie Fighter is pretty good... and Kylo Ren's Tie Silencer is absolutely my Favorite ship in the entire game. (and I'm a ships guy)

    Aside from the "holy smokes - please take my money" level of AMAZING that Jedi Rey IS, Holdo and Rose Tico were dissapointing compared to all the rest.

    And they didn't have to be...

    and I don't want it to be that way.

    I love this stoopid game.

    But I'm also mad. I'm upset because I feel like the parts I think are missing should have been Obvious to these people that have been so excellent at getting me all these OTHER things I have wanted...

    Holdo needs a ship and a leadership ability.

    Young Lando and Lando's Falcon are important things to include for the solo Release.

    .
    .
    .
    I wish I could have Kylo Ren and Jedi Rey fight a bunch of Prateorian Guards... I really, deeply want that... I've wanted that since the first day I picked up this game...
    .
    .
    .
    ...and if they throw a Porg in there I'd probably rob a bank and sell my wifes car to get it, even if it does NOTHING... Actually, *especially* if it does nothing.

    .

    I must be crazy.
    I'm not even mad at you Yae.
    For some reason, I think I even like you.

    Henceforth, I'll try not to speak for myself as a personal collective... but don't You nitpick my english or my compositional structure anymore either -OK? It sets me off.

    :wink:

    Valar Dohaeris
  • 'Cmon Yae.

    Don't have the mods nuke this one.

    I'm trying to aplogize. Really.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    So because I disagree with your position and because the post in which you both directly insulted another forum member and referenced a Star Wars character devouring a bowl of something highly inappropriate for a forum meant to be safe for twelve-year-olds, I am clearly conspiring with the mods to silence you and I am part of a radical anti-TLJ cabal.

    Interesting. I suggest taking a step back, and taking a breath. You are leaping to some very strange conclusions.

    There are many visions of Star Wars. There are many visions of this game. None of them agree. What is important to you is not important in an absolute sense. Young Lando and a Young Lando Falcon are important to you. And that is fine. But to project those hopes as some absolute is wrong.

    I fervently hope L3-37 makes her way into the game, more so than I've hoped for any character since I've joined. She is important to me. We already have a Lando; we do not have anyone like L3 in this game. However, if she does not make it into the game, or does not make it into the game just yet at launch, that does not mean CG has failed. That just means their vision was not quite the same as mine. I accept this. I am not the center of the galaxy far, far away.

    This is a slow, long-term game in every respect. Both in play and in development. There are currently 180 units in the game, between ships and characters. These were accumulated slowly, over the course of two and a half years. You've seen three months. Barely one character cycle. That is not enough to judge long term trends.
    Still not a he.
  • @YaeVizsla I never took you to be anti-TLJ at all. The first part was more toward rodandreel.

    At my workplace, I have seen HUGE nearly Violent arguments erupt between my adult, white-collar, "professional" colleagues about whether TLJ was a masterpeice, or if it was terrible. My facebook feed and my YouTube feed are even worse. It feels to me like the haters are spreading ignorance and short-sighted criticism like an infection.

    AND, That's what made me laugh when I saw my second post was deleted. After I read your response, I realized that what I had written sounded Just Like *Them*.

    A large part of the Star Wars fandom has been turned into a warzone, and so far there hasn't been any sort of geneva convention about personal attacks, logic, or any of that.

    I apologise, sincerely, for the insults I aimed at You.

    I also don't care that my second post got nuked. It was a hateful, fearful, steaming pile of negativity. I'm kind of glad it's gone actually.

    I'd like to point out that I *Did NOT* say that a certain Star Wars supporting character could eat a "bowl" of inappropriate objects though.

    I said "bag". LOLOLOL

    and Yeah, the mods wiped it because of that stuff. I get it.

    Again, I'm not mad.

    I am not a patient person sometimes. I expect results, and I generally expect results quickly. While (in the grand scheme of things) I have only been waiting for Praetorian Guards for about 3 months, to *ME* it FEELS like I have been waiting for them the ENTIRE LIFETIME I have been playing this game.

    Please forgive my childish impatience. Star Wars turns all of us back into children sometimes.

  • Gorem
    1190 posts Member
    Honestly, they seem to be catering to everyone with the game which is a good thing, we get heroes that are mostly important added( I mean, Rose and Holdo could have not been added and hardly anyone would have batted an eye). There have been so many game changing things happening in recent times, best thing we can do is wait and see, and even with all the game changing things going on, Disney is pumping out new movies what seems like every 6months, which hardly gives the devs much of a chance to catch up. They are doing their best, so best to give them a break and wait :)

    (I'm also going to be honest here, when I saw this thread, I expected it to be going on about how these 2 movies are the worst in star wars history, making the prequels look like masterpieces, I was disappoint)
  • No. Solo was the worst movie in the Franchise.
    It's opening day, I just got out of the movie and I feel like I'm going to puke.

    I don't want Lando OR Lando's falcon anymore.

    Solo was so bad. It was just SO bad...

    I wish I could Un-See it.

  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    You're really prone to dramatic overreaction, aincha?
    Still not a he.
  • @KyloStimpyOfficial; I think EA didn't forget to release them, they don't know how to introduce them or whatever because we have about 100 characters and many of them are useless or unplayed like Ugnaught and so on...

    The important (for me) characters could be:
    - Elite Praetorian Guard 1, 3, 5, 7 (TLJ)
    - Supreme Leader Snoke (TLJ)
    - General Hux (TFA/TLJ)
    - Porkins (ANH)
    - Jon Vander (R1)
    - Garven Dreis (ANH)
    - General Antoc Merrick (R1)
    - Dryden Vos (Solo)
    - Tobias Beckett (Solo)
    - Enfys Nest (Solo)
    - Val (Solo)
    - Rio Durant (Solo)
    - Young Lando Calrissian (Solo)
    - Moloch (Solo)
    - Range Trooper (Solo)
    - Mimban Stormtrooper (Solo)
    - Patrol Stormtrooper (Solo)
    - Mud Trooper (Solo)
    - Luke Skywalker (TLJ)
    - Jedi Master Luke Skywalker (TLJ) [green Lightsaber]
    - Luke Skywalker (Ahch-To) (TLJ) [blue Lightsaber]
    - General Leia Organa(-Solo) (TFA/TLJ)
    - Old Admiral Gial Ackbar (TLJ)
    - Admiral W.O Statura (TFA)
    - ...

    The list is a lot of important characters which EA cannot accomplished to release them all cos old released characters loose their value.
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