Asajj Ventress Limitations

Replies

  • Ninjah9
    661 posts Member
    Haha ok. Yes his name was darth maul, he was an apprentice. So can you be a lord and an apprentice at the same time, Meh idk dont care. Hes a sith to me and hes awesome, so is Asajj. You believe what you want, nothing you said has convinced me otherwise.
    Rogue one and Solo were great and closely based on story lines created by Lucas. FA and LA are separate money making ventures using the star wars brand purchased by Disney from the original creator. Definitely not canon to me. Just ask yourself this, how did Finn (a guy who mopped floors, and mowed down innocent women and children for a living) last more than 2 seconds in a lightsaber battle against Kylo Ren(trained since he was a child by legendary jedi Luke Skywalker, who he also overpowered at one point. Also stopped a laser beam using the force) without getting cut into a million pieces ??? That is like breaking the laws of physics on the entire star wars universe. If you want to believe that crap then fine, let's agree to disagree and go our separate ways. But this is my discussion thread so feel free to see yourself out. May the force and the non-canon force be with you :)
  • Poxx
    2288 posts Member
    Ninjah9 wrote: »
    Yea that's just the issue here. We can debate all we want, the truth is cg is far from perfect and contradicts themselves. They dont have a solid by reason for not making her a sith. It would just be more fun if she had synergy with both because she's a great character. And I'm sure that slight change wouldn't cause a seismic shift in the balance of the game. It would just be cool for fandom. I just know they are never going to take the time to make a sith Asajj so why not just give her the tag, there's no legitimate reason not to. To me based on canon I believe all the sith abilities come from the dark side of the force and she uses the dark side powers therefore she's a sith. I think the bounty hunter tag would be cool but it would be a big stretch.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Maul identified as a Sith, declared himself a Sith lord, and took on a Sith apprentice.

    Asajj was a skilled employee of a Sith.

    -Asajj was a sith apprentice so its implied that she is declared a sith. An apprentice(sith in training) implies you're a sith. A padawan is not an employee of a jedi. By your logic Asoka is just an employee of Anakin, which is ridiculous
    -Maul never declared himself a sith lord, he declared him and his brother crime lords to Hondo Onaka's syndicate.
    -You didn't answer for Savage, if you're implying that savage is a sith because hes mauls apprentice then your logic says Asajj is a sith.

    Idk at this point I feel you are arguing just to argue, and that's why you're not making any sense. Its disappointing as a fan that she will never be treated as a sith in the game and that sucks. I'll leave it at that, peace

    2 things.

    #1 Sidious told Maul on Mandalore "You have become a rival". Pretty much says it all about Maul's sith status.

    #2 Nothing says we won't get another Asajj that has a sith tag. If we can have 5 Hans, we can have 2 Asajj.
  • YaeVizsla
    1890 posts Member
    As opposed to this highly plausible violence?



    Star Wars has never been good at the whole "logic" thing.

    Finn's still a stormtrooper. We never really see anything lower, but they're nominally elites. Roughly analogous to a Marine. Every Marine regardless of their MOS is an infantryman first. Even the Marine who spends most of their day cleaning (which is a lot of them, I assure you) is trained to kill. Finn may work sanitation, but he's still a trained combat unit. And Kylo had just gotten shot with a weapon that can down a TIE in a single shot. Dude was kind of distracted by the whole "dying" thing. Finn standing up for forty seconds, most of them on the ropes? Yeah, that's fine.

    Apply the kind of reasoning you're using to the OT, and it will not hold up. At all. Han should have died in the exogorth because he walked out into a vacuum with nothing but a breathing mask.

    And yes. Yes, you can absolutely be a Sith Lord and an apprentice at the same time. Darth Vader was a Sith Lord. The novel Lords of the Sith is quite clearly plural, and about Sidious and Vader.
  • Ninjah9
    661 posts Member
    Dude those films are garbage, that justification of finn being able to survive against Kylo ren is a joke. Oh he had basic military training and that made him good enough to contend with Ren in a lightsaber battle. Please
    -Lucas doesnt trash them, but he wont give them praise either
    -Hamill thought they were crap, and he was in the movie lol
    Dont bring that garbage here. If you want start your own new star wars trilogy apologist thread go ahead, but not here follow your own words please.

    @Poxx not sure what your point was with your first comment. Keep in mind I dont argue that he isnt a sith, I just argue that asajj was one.

    And for your second point my stance is that I have no faith that that will happen. But i hope you're right. I'm pretty content right now with the improved Bastilla, a little cosmetic surgery and a battle stance that isnt ridiculous and were all good :).
  • Ninjah9
    661 posts Member
    Just need cg to fix that **** technicality that prevents jolee from having synergy with kenobi
  • It's an interesting point in the clone wars TV show. After she is betrayed by dooku, she goes to darthotmir, from where she was taken as a child. Mother Talzin meets her and she promises her revenge. Before doing so, she undergoes a baptism style ritual to join the Nightsisters clan. As part of which, she renounces all other alleigiences, particularly (highlighted by Talzin) to the sith and her former master.

    As such, amusingly, if they gave Asajj the Sith tag, they would actually have to remove the Nightsister tag, as she was never both at once. And nobody wants that.

    Also worth noting, towards the end of the clone wars TV show, she eventually becomes a bounty hunter, and one of her first jobs is on heist with a team including boba fett, dengar, and bossk. I don't see anyone asking for her to be a Bounty Hunter though.
  • It's an interesting point in the clone wars TV show. After she is betrayed by dooku, she goes to darthotmir, from where she was taken as a child. Mother Talzin meets her and she promises her revenge. Before doing so, she undergoes a baptism style ritual to join the Nightsisters clan. As part of which, she renounces all other alleigiences, particularly (highlighted by Talzin) to the sith and her former master.

    As such, amusingly, if they gave Asajj the Sith tag, they would actually have to remove the Nightsister tag, as she was never both at once. And nobody wants that.

    Also worth noting, towards the end of the clone wars TV show, she eventually becomes a bounty hunter, and one of her first jobs is on heist with a team including boba fett, dengar, and bossk. I don't see anyone asking for her to be a Bounty Hunter though.

    My question is if this is supposed to be her character after she joined the Nightsisters, then why does she have the Separatist tag?
  • Poxx
    2288 posts Member
    It's an interesting point in the clone wars TV show. After she is betrayed by dooku, she goes to darthotmir, from where she was taken as a child. Mother Talzin meets her and she promises her revenge. Before doing so, she undergoes a baptism style ritual to join the Nightsisters clan. As part of which, she renounces all other alleigiences, particularly (highlighted by Talzin) to the sith and her former master.

    As such, amusingly, if they gave Asajj the Sith tag, they would actually have to remove the Nightsister tag, as she was never both at once. And nobody wants that.

    Also worth noting, towards the end of the clone wars TV show, she eventually becomes a bounty hunter, and one of her first jobs is on heist with a team including boba fett, dengar, and bossk. I don't see anyone asking for her to be a Bounty Hunter though.

    My question is if this is supposed to be her character after she joined the Nightsisters, then why does she have the Separatist tag?

    She didn't "join" the Nightsisters, she "rejoined" the Nightsisters. She's Mother Talzin's daughter.
  • Poxx wrote: »
    It's an interesting point in the clone wars TV show. After she is betrayed by dooku, she goes to darthotmir, from where she was taken as a child. Mother Talzin meets her and she promises her revenge. Before doing so, she undergoes a baptism style ritual to join the Nightsisters clan. As part of which, she renounces all other alleigiences, particularly (highlighted by Talzin) to the sith and her former master.

    As such, amusingly, if they gave Asajj the Sith tag, they would actually have to remove the Nightsister tag, as she was never both at once. And nobody wants that.

    Also worth noting, towards the end of the clone wars TV show, she eventually becomes a bounty hunter, and one of her first jobs is on heist with a team including boba fett, dengar, and bossk. I don't see anyone asking for her to be a Bounty Hunter though.

    My question is if this is supposed to be her character after she joined the Nightsisters, then why does she have the Separatist tag?

    She didn't "join" the Nightsisters, she "rejoined" the Nightsisters. She's Mother Talzin's daughter.

    Ok but saying she “rejoined” means that she “unjoined” them before that, that’s how that word works.
  • It's an interesting point in the clone wars TV show. After she is betrayed by dooku, she goes to darthotmir, from where she was taken as a child. Mother Talzin meets her and she promises her revenge. Before doing so, she undergoes a baptism style ritual to join the Nightsisters clan. As part of which, she renounces all other alleigiences, particularly (highlighted by Talzin) to the sith and her former master.

    As such, amusingly, if they gave Asajj the Sith tag, they would actually have to remove the Nightsister tag, as she was never both at once. And nobody wants that.

    Also worth noting, towards the end of the clone wars TV show, she eventually becomes a bounty hunter, and one of her first jobs is on heist with a team including boba fett, dengar, and bossk. I don't see anyone asking for her to be a Bounty Hunter though.

    My question is if this is supposed to be her character after she joined the Nightsisters, then why does she have the Separatist tag?

    That, is a very good question.

    And for the record, she was born on dathotmir, but never underwent in initiation to the Nightsisters (or even returned to dathotmir) until her return after rooms betrayal.
  • Ninjah9
    661 posts Member
    Well I'm a so glad to see we are back on topic! :)
    @ProfFuzzyWhiskers:I actually have come across many who wanted her to have that bounty hunter tag.

    The whole reason I started this thread was because of obvious contradictions I noticed by cg's reasoning. The separatists tag comment is a great point.

    @ProfFuzzyWhiskers: "As such, amusingly, if they gave Asajj the Sith tag, they would actually have to remove the Nightsister tag, as she was never both at once. And nobody wants that."

    I answer your question with another, when was R2-D2 part of the galactic republic and the rebellion at the same time? And where Kanan and Ezra ever really jedi (personally I like them having the tag). But if they can can be considered jedi, then Asajj should be considered sith.
    My main reasoning is she is a darkside wielder, was a sith apprentice, and wields traditional sith red lightsabers. I'm not saying shes a sith lord, the marauder, and the assassin are sith but not sith lords. And I feel if you have those abilities and get strength from the darkside, you should benefit from darkside synergy. Also keep in mind this is purely in the name of fandom, she would not be truly viable with the sith because she loses major speed by leaving the nightsisters.

    With all this being said, I remain skeptical that they will ever create a sith "snapshot" version of Asajj. It is clear that cg is focused on the separatists faction specifically right now. So maybe just maybe there will be a new separatist/ sith Asajj. But for all those who argue she was never a sith, I say you are flat out wrong
  • YaeVizsla
    1890 posts Member
    R2-D2 is, explicitly, the exception to the snapshot rule.

    He's special, and you know full well why. He's not someone to point to when petitioning non-snapshot tags on other characters. Otherwise, every Han would have to have the Empire and Imperial Trooper tags now.

    Also, yes. Yes, Kanan and Ezra both really were Jedi. Kanan every bit as much as Hermit Yoda and Old Ben. Kanan was even knighted and recognized by Yoda as such during the series, and Ezra was the padawan to a Jedi knight, again recognized by Yoda.
  • Ninjah9
    661 posts Member
    The tag system is flawed. A good point was brought up earlier, if tags are based on timeline snapshots, then why does Asajj have a separatists tag? CG's explanation for Asajj not having a sith tag is that when she joined the nightsisters (to fight the Dooku lead separatists army) and in doing so relinquished all of her previous alliances ( but I contend she maintained her sith skills and abilities after leaving Dooku). So if she lost the sith tag (which cg never denied she had) then why did she maintain her separatist tag? Especially when a main part of her alliance to the nightsisters was to combat the separatists. Therefore cg's explanation is insufficient.
  • YaeVizsla
    1890 posts Member
    Asajj was never out to combat the Separatists.

    She was out to kill Dooku.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Asajj was never out to combat the Separatists.

    She was out to kill Dooku.

    Not all true, she was there to defend Dathomir when the Separatists attacked..

    @Ninjah9 I get why you are upset about this, but just realize that there are a vast amount of inconsistencies with this game.

    For instance:

    Commander Luke is not a Jedi even though he was trained by two Jedi Masters while Kanan and Ezra do have the Jedi tag even though Ezra's only training was from Kanan and Kanan abandoned being a Jedi after Order 66.

    R2, which was extensively covered already.

    IG-86 and HK-47 don't have bounty hunter or scoundrel tags (one or the other, depending on interpretation).

    Imperial Super Commando, Royal guard, and Gar Saxon don't have imperial trooper tags even though they are obviously troopers.

    And those are just the ones I saw... There are probably more.
  • YaeVizsla
    1890 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    CLS:


    Kanan and Ezra:
    Kanan went into hiding and repressed much of his abilities, much like Obi and Yoda. He was disillusioned for a long while prior to the events of Rebels, but he takes it back up as a practicing religion. Kanan was recognized as a Jedi knight by Yoda, and Ezra was recognized as his padawan. Ezra has received far more Jedi training than Luke had by Bespin.

    Imperial Super Commando and Gar Saxon:
    They are not imperial troopers. They're Mandalorian military. Imperial troopers are their own organization and training pipeline. This is like saying coalition forces in Iraq should be classified as Marine Corps infantry.

    Royal Guard:
    Same situation, except more like secret service versus Marine infantry.
  • Beyol
    95 posts Member
    Someone woke up on the wrong side of the troll bed today.
  • The point is that since Asajj Ventress has both Nighsister and Separatist tags, she is already in violation of this snapshot rule.

    Either she’s the snapshot of herself when she’s the assassin of Count Dooku and seen leading Separatist forces, or she’s the snapshot of herself after joining the Nightsisters when she’s seen fighting the Separatists on Dathomir. The two tags on her cannot coincide without breaking this so called snapshot rule.
  • Ninjah9
    661 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    @Cheesecakehunter: I actually was pretty disappointed HK-47 wasn't a bounty hunter. But technically he and IG-86 just kill who they are programmed to, while IG-88 became a sentient being and hunted people for money.

    But yes the snapshot tag explanation is flawed, and that was the main purpose of creating this post. I dont expect CG to be perfect but it seems like they tend to make arbitrary decisions about certain characters making them less fun for fans, even though fandom is supposed to be one of their guiding influences.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    CLS:


    Kanan and Ezra:
    Kanan went into hiding and repressed much of his abilities, much like Obi and Yoda. He was disillusioned for a long while prior to the events of Rebels, but he takes it back up as a practicing religion. Kanan was recognized as a Jedi knight by Yoda, and Ezra was recognized as his padawan. Ezra has received far more Jedi training than Luke had by Bespin.

    Imperial Super Commando and Gar Saxon:
    They are not imperial troopers. They're Mandalorian military. Imperial troopers are their own organization and training pipeline. This is like saying coalition forces in Iraq should be classified as Marine Corps infantry.

    Royal Guard:
    Same situation, except more like secret service versus Marine infantry.

    While I agree with your point on Luke with regards to Bespin, I was under the impression that Luke's snapshot occurred during episode VI, and I based this off of his abilities.

    I concede your point with the mandalorians. They basically are mercenary infantry. Thanks for keeping me honest.

    I disagree with your last point. Red guard went through an even more intensive training process than normal infantry. Source:
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor's_Royal_Guard/Legends
  • Boo
    3423 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    CLS:


    Kanan and Ezra:
    Kanan went into hiding and repressed much of his abilities, much like Obi and Yoda. He was disillusioned for a long while prior to the events of Rebels, but he takes it back up as a practicing religion. Kanan was recognized as a Jedi knight by Yoda, and Ezra was recognized as his padawan. Ezra has received far more Jedi training than Luke had by Bespin.

    Imperial Super Commando and Gar Saxon:
    They are not imperial troopers. They're Mandalorian military. Imperial troopers are their own organization and training pipeline. This is like saying coalition forces in Iraq should be classified as Marine Corps infantry.

    Royal Guard:
    Same situation, except more like secret service versus Marine infantry.

    Kanan never achieved the rank of Jedi, he was still a padawan. But I guess after finding Ezra sparked hope in himself and the Jedi religion for him.

    I would not say his powers were repressed - he was an aging padawan with only more experience that he could pass to Ezra. Ezra was clearly more powerful in the force compared to Kanan - that is obvious.
  • Boo
    3423 posts Member
    The point is that since Asajj Ventress has both Nighsister and Separatist tags, she is already in violation of this snapshot rule.

    Either she’s the snapshot of herself when she’s the assassin of Count Dooku and seen leading Separatist forces, or she’s the snapshot of herself after joining the Nightsisters when she’s seen fighting the Separatists on Dathomir. The two tags on her cannot coincide without breaking this so called snapshot rule.

    Funny enough - Assaj looks different (being in skin tight black clothing) while fighting with the nightsisters.

    Her appearance changes again when the nightsisters get wiped out and she becomes a bounty hunter

    How she appears in this game deserves a Separatist & sith tag, because this is how she looks when serving the separatist army as well as being Dookus apprentice/Sith Assassin.

    However at the time and probably now - her mecahnics under a sith tag would make the sith faction a little OP - so rather than following the logic of giving her appropriate tags the game decides to make up its own rules and do something different with the tagging system.

    I mean really R2 is many things, including Resistance - what the hec has he done for the resistance other than show the missing piece to the map to skywalker and sit on the Falcon playing old messages?....Nothing!

    But Ventress being a sith apprentice to Dooku, an aspiring Sith Lord herself and sith assassin - nothing...where's the logic?

  • YaeVizsla
    1890 posts Member
    While I agree with your point on Luke with regards to Bespin, I was under the impression that Luke's snapshot occurred during episode VI, and I based this off of his abilities.
    I was under the impression that right now, we have Episode IV and Episode V Luke, and Episode VI Luke will be the Jedi once they figure out how they want to model him.

    Luke was certainly a commander before Hoth happened. The beige onesie was his outfit during Episode V. In Episode VI, he spent most of his time in his back in black outfit.
    Boo wrote: »
    Kanan never achieved the rank of Jedi, he was still a padawan. But I guess after finding Ezra sparked hope in himself and the Jedi religion for him.
    "Jedi" is not a rank.

    Everyone in the Jedi Order is a Jedi. The younglings we see Yoda teaching in the prequels are all Jedi.

    "Knight" is a rank. Kanan did not become a knight prior to order 66, but he was absolutely a Jedi. And we have several padawan Jedi in the game already. Kid Ahsoka, Barriss, Ezra. That said, during the events of Rebels, Kanan explicitly passed the trials and was granted the rank of Knight by Yoda.

    When I say Kanan repressed his abilities, I do not mean in Rebels. I mean from Order 66 until the end of New Dawn. It's how he stayed alive. He repressed his abilities to remain hidden, and lived as an itinerant laborer and freighter pilot.

    And it wasn't Ezra who snapped him out of that funk. It was Hera, and joining the Rebellion.
  • Boo
    3423 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Boo wrote: »
    Kanan never achieved the rank of Jedi, he was still a padawan. But I guess after finding Ezra sparked hope in himself and the Jedi religion for him.
    "Jedi" is not a rank.

    Everyone in the Jedi Order is a Jedi. The younglings we see Yoda teaching in the prequels are all Jedi.

    "Knight" is a rank. Kanan did not become a knight prior to order 66, but he was absolutely a Jedi. And we have several padawan Jedi in the game already. Kid Ahsoka, Barriss, Ezra. That said, during the events of Rebels, Kanan explicitly passed the trials and was granted the rank of Knight by Yoda.

    When I say Kanan repressed his abilities, I do not mean in Rebels. I mean from Order 66 until the end of New Dawn. It's how he stayed alive. He repressed his abilities to remain hidden, and lived as an itinerant laborer and freighter pilot.

    And it wasn't Ezra who snapped him out of that funk. It was Hera, and joining the Rebellion.

    @YaeVizsla

    Yes you are correct, Jedi is not a rank, I was using the short form of Jedi Knight and/or Master - in such a way that Vader refers to Luke in TESB "You are not a Jedi yet", or Padme referring to Anakin in AOTC "Oh, Anakin's not a Jedi yet, just a padawan learner..."

    So that's what I meant.

    Kanan is an aging Padawan - so he never achieved a true Jedi Rank in that regard (Knight or Master etc.)

    And Yes, Hera gave Kanan the pep talk, but it was Ezra's presence within the group and connection to the force that persuaded Kanan ultimately to train Ezra - giving him purpose and renewed life to his old Jedi beliefs.
  • Boo
    3423 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Many characters in game have tags based on where they are "at that moment" . As the deva have stated they are a snap shot of that person in time and would be tagged "how they would identify at that moment".

    All characters go through multiple levels of approvals from many representatives of all the associated organizations. It's not like this went out without anyone knowing.

    However Old Ben's tag was rightly modified to include Rebel in the end...so?
  • YaeVizsla
    1890 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Yes you are correct, Jedi is not a rank, I was using the short form of Jedi Knight and/or Master - in such a way that Vader refers to Luke in TESB "You are not a Jedi yet", or Padme referring to Anakin in AOTC "Oh, Anakin's not a Jedi yet, just a padawan learner..."

    So that's what I meant.
    Padme was a misinformed outsider.

    Vader was pretty much right, considering at that point, Luke had less Jedi training than a youngling.
  • Boo
    3423 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    How Sidious chose to interpret Dooku and Ventress' relationship does not affect what that relationship was and was not.

    Also, you cannot guarantee anything.

    Rex eventually joins the Rebellion, and odds of a Rebel rex are not great. That's not a reason to put the Rebel tag on Rex.

    This is incorrect.

    Ventress was a Sith Assassin under the apprenticeship of Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus.

    As there can be only 2 Sith Lords ( as Master and Apprentice) being Darth Sidious and Darth Tyranus at that time, is why Ventress never achieved her "Darth" title - suited to only Sith Lords.

    Just because a character has not earned their "Darth" title does not excuse the fact they are sith, force users following the teachings of the sith (in the force and Lightsaber combat - therefore excusing characters such as General Grievous).

    This also speaks to why Savage Oppress is considered Sith. Not to mention he replaced Venterss as Darth Tyranus' apprentice, who he chose not to inform Darth Sidious about - as Darth Sidious was aware of Ventress, he kept an eye on her powers so that Darth Tyranus and Ventress did not defeat him - which would have made Darth Tyranus the new Sith Master and Ventress as the new Sith Apprentice, with her Darth title and anointed Sith name - whatever that would have been.

    She was therefore an aspiring Sith Lord and Sidious ensured she was not successful in reaching her desired promotion within the Sith faction.

    As for Maul and Oppress - Maul dropped his Darth title (still referred to as Darth Maul incorrectly by the Jedi of the clone wars because they had no clear idea of the true sith pecking order they were dealing with).

    Darth Maul did not correct them either as he aspired to defeat Darth Sidious and Darth Tyranus - regaining his "rightful" sith title and promotion to being the new Sith Master if he was successful. He then would have taken Savage as his Sith Apprentice (a title he referred to Savage contantly and later Ezra) and Savage would have been granted his Darth title and Sith anointed name.

    Clearly Darth Sidious saw them as a threat/rivals - in the same way he saw Ventress under Dooku and swiftly put them to an end.

    As no one can say for sure in true cannon that Plagueis lived during the events of TPM, which is a silly argument- the true fact is there have never been more than 2 Sith Lords during movie cannon - even if Snoke was really Plagueis.

    Long story short, Ventress was sith, just not a sith lord.

    Also the Devs are not arguing this either - they merely say her snap shot in-game is post double-cross from Dooku - but this again does not make sense if she has the separatist tag does it - in which case she would be still under the apprenticeship of Dooku as described above and therefore warrants a Sith tag.
  • Ninjah9
    661 posts Member
    @Boo "Long story short, Ventress was sith, just not a sith lord.

    Also the Devs are not arguing this either - they merely say her snap shot in-game is post double-cross from Dooku - but this again does not make sense if she has the separatist tag does it - in which case she would be still under the apprenticeship of Dooku as described above and therefore warrants a Sith tag."
    My god finally somebody with some logic. 100% agree. Very well put.
    However Snoke is definitely not Plagueis, he was just another poorly written character in the new trilogy, with no roots in the Star Wars universe
  • Boo
    3423 posts Member
    Ninjah9 wrote: »
    @Boo "Long story short, Ventress was sith, just not a sith lord.

    Also the Devs are not arguing this either - they merely say her snap shot in-game is post double-cross from Dooku - but this again does not make sense if she has the separatist tag does it - in which case she would be still under the apprenticeship of Dooku as described above and therefore warrants a Sith tag."
    My god finally somebody with some logic. 100% agree. Very well put.
    However Snoke is definitely not Plagueis, he was just another poorly written character in the new trilogy, with no roots in the Star Wars universe

    Re: Snoke

    There are lots of points that hint that he could have been Plagueis.

    Sith No One Knew Existed (SNOKE)

    He is interested in Kylo/Vader... why: The power to control both Light and Dark of the force - Kylo still struggles with light and Snoke found that somewhat attractive. The ability to control both aspects of the force gives someone true command over all its assets - not just light or dark (or the dogmatic view of the jedi...Sidious' teachings there too).

    Perhaps if Plagueis created Anakin through the force - he was merely the vessel to do it and did not hold that true power, as Sith he only commanded thje dark side.

    So he left the Sith Order, by faking his death to Sidious (hence why Snoke is scarred).

    He left the Sith so is Darth Plagueis no more, but Snoke instead (this therefore holds true to the Rule of 2 and the prophecy that Anakin destroyed the Sith).

    Snoke also said he lived through the clone wars era seeing destruction of Jedi, rise of the Empire and fall of the Empire/Sith. Sidious does nto share power - if he knew Snoke existed (without thinking him already dead - Yoda and Kenobi hid their presence from the galaxy too) he would have searched out Snoke and killed him.

    Through Kylo, Snoke could continue his experiments and search for greater power of light and dark, similar to what he would have done with Anakin - which is why Snoke holds Vader up on a pedestal, as does Kylo - what is it that Kylo says to Vader's mask..."I will finish what you started." True Power of the entire force (light and dark).

    Snoke's music is identical to the score played during Sidious' story of Darth Plagueis the wise in ROTS - not coincidence.

    When posed on a panel promoting TFA, Ridley was asked if Plagueis is in TFA, she started to reply saying "is that Sno..." before being cut off by Abrams very quickly who turned the question asked upside and side to side then answering something completely different (you can find this easily on Youtube).

    Its no secret that Johnson ignored every set up TFA had to offer TLJ and very much made his own selfish movie - who knows what we would have got if the true reveal of Snoke's character was exposed.

    Needless to say, in my opinion, there is more weight in the argument that Snoke was Plagueis, compared to the flip side that he wasn't - at the end of the day nobody can for sure prove that he was or wasn't - so I stand by my belief.
  • YaeVizsla
    1890 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Its no secret that Johnson ignored every set up TFA had to offer TLJ and very much made his own selfish movie - who knows what we would have got if the true reveal of Snoke's character was exposed.
    Well, it's not a secret, I'll give you that.

    It's also not true.

    Abrams left a bunch of unanswered questions, as is his wont, with some suggestions for what they might be. Those aren't promises or obligations. They're interest points, and courtesies to the next director, for Rian to pick and choose as he saw fit. Yes, Abrams had some suggestions for some of them, but they were only that. Suggestions. Whether Abrams' thought was for Snoke to be Plagueis or for Rey to be the secret child of Boba Fett and Sy Snootles holds no weight, because they were just one suggestion for the next director to make up their own mind about.

    Rian chose a lot of those leads to pick up, and chose a direction to go, as was literally his job. It may not have been the direction Abrams had in mind, it may not be the direction you expected, but that doesn't matter. Not Abrams' movie. Not Abrams' vision. And that is exactly what Abrams wanted and why he structured things the way he did. To leave freedom for the story to go in unexpected directions.
Sign In or Register to comment.