Pairing players in PvP and switching between shards

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Pyro2266
11 posts Member
edited May 2018
Hi, at first I'll state my problem. I have not played SW:Heroes for cca 2 years. Now I started again. I'm currently level 70. My problem is with PvP battles like squad arena, fleet arena or galactic war. I'm always paired with 80+ players, usually with 85. So just by leveling their characters they have a lot more power in their squads than me (sometimes twice as me). It's really flustrating to play vs. them because I have literally no chance of defeating them.

At first I wrote on the live helpdesk chat. They told me that they cannot do anything about it and that I should create a bug. So I created it here - https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/Pairing-players-that-did-not-play-for-long-time-with-too-high/m-p/6813087. As I expected it was just closed without anything. They only suggested that I should write feedback here. So here I am!

I want to suggest some mechanism to allow people changing shards if they were not playing for long time like me. It's flustrating to be cut of of the PvP content just because you was not active in last months/years.
This mechanism/feature can be for example monetized with ingame currency (not directly money) or it can be available only via help chat/bugreport or something like that.

I have now just these three options:
1. Play in the state as it is and try to catch up
In this case I will be basically cut of of the PvP battles (squad arena, fleet arena, galactic war) because there is only very little chance of doing something in them. For example I just got full sith 83lvl squad agains me in the FIRST galactic war node (I'm lvl 70).

2. Start from beginning
This means that I should throw away all my progress and all what I achieved in weeks/months of playing this game and start from beginning. I think that most of the players will find this boring - playing same thing again.

3. Pay a lot of money to catch up
I really don't like the idea to pay huge amount of money just to be in the state where I left it. And I don't think players should be forced to pay for this.


I personally think the best solution will be to allow changing shard somehow. I don't know how is this game implemented and how much effort is in moving player from one shard to shard where are players equal to him (or slightly better). But I don't think it will be that hard and it will allow people like me enjoy the game again.

Replies

  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    You cannot switch shards, best option is to restart, 70 is very easy to hit again.
  • Mao42
    2 posts Member
    The simplest way of solving this is to just implement a level bucket system, similar to the one in World of Warcraft Battlegrounds. PvP encounters such as arena would be segmented into 10-levels-wide buckets inside which players would climb the ladder.
    Dead simple.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Mao42 wrote: »
    The simplest way of solving this is to just implement a level bucket system, similar to the one in World of Warcraft Battlegrounds. PvP encounters such as arena would be segmented into 10-levels-wide buckets inside which players would climb the ladder.
    Dead simple.

    The majority of the players is lvl 85, so lvl buckets ain't going to help.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    The "only" fair way to group people is by starting time, as they are not. (There may be others but I have not heard of one that is equal to all.)

    Time =$$. So everyone gets to where they are through a combination of commitment (time) and/or $$. Someone who has been less committed being pushed into a group where they can be competitive against someone who has been committed but started later, is not fair to the "newer" player.

    The general idea here is that the groups made the way they are reward people who have been helping and somewhat active in the community and game for longer periods of time, or support it in other ways $$$.

    The dev team have also stated they dont have the tools to move people to different shards.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    The "only" fair way to group people is by starting time, as they are not. (There may be others but I have not heard of one that is equal to all.)

    Time =$$. So everyone gets to where they are through a combination of commitment (time) and/or $$. Someone who has been less committed being pushed into a group where they can be competitive against someone who has been committed but started later, is not fair to the "newer" player.

    The general idea here is that the groups made the way they are reward people who have been helping and somewhat active in the community and game for longer periods of time, or support it in other ways $$$.

    The dev team have also stated they dont have the tools to move people to different shards.

    The last part I feel is false, with the splitting the fleet arena shard to meet me it seems like they have the capability.. but not to argue that,

    To the OP; as kyno said the fairest grouping is by time. And this game "rewards"(using the word loosely) players for their time and/or money, ultimately it was your decision to leave the game for an extended period of time putting you behind others who played daily.

    I mean yeah. It sucks, but your options are to grind it out or start fresh
  • You're almost to 85 so the level gap should disappear soon. That just leaves gear, stars, and zetas. If you focus on an arena team it only takes a few months to get one team to 7 star g11 or g12 with enough zetas to be competitive. If you were permanently locked at the bottom i would say switching woukd be warranted but getting one team ready is doable.
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    Yes, I agree that grouping players by starting time is fair. But it's fair only as long as you do not make bigger break in playing (let's say 6+ months). If you want to start again, you have only those options that I mentioned earlier.

    It will be even more unfair if you actually paid for something with real money. If you want to start playing again you basically lose that money.

    This is the only game I encountered so far that punishes you hard for making longer pause in playing. You are not able to pick up where you left it and be competitive to others. In most of the games you are matched against the players that are +- equal to you.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Pyro2266 wrote: »

    This is the only game I encountered so far that punishes you hard for making longer pause in playing. You are not able to pick up where you left it and be competitive to others. In most of the games you are matched against the players that are +- equal to you.

    It's just squad arena though, maybe fleet if you had that unlocked before you took a break.
    I think only competing vs a limited group of players who started around the same time as you did has more upsides than downsides tbh. It may suck if you take a 6 month break, but it's awesome when you start playing 6 months after the game launched.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    It's just squad arena though, maybe fleet if you had that unlocked before you took a break.

    It's not only for squad arena. Bad thing about fleet arena is that it was introduced after I stopped playing and I have no ships nor credits/materials to build it. So with my bad 1* fleet I'm paired with 4* or more enemies.
    Similar problem as with squad arena is with galactic battle. I'm getting wiped a lot of times in first three nodes.

  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    One of the solutions may be to buff somehow players that were longer inactive. For example if you was inactive for at least 6 months, then you will receive double multipliers to (nearly) everything in game for let's say two weeks. Something like the 2x event that's happening right now. It will make it much easier to catch up with other players in your shard.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    It's just squad arena though, maybe fleet if you had that unlocked before you took a break.

    It's not only for squad arena. Bad thing about fleet arena is that it was introduced after I stopped playing and I have no ships nor credits/materials to build it. So with my bad 1* fleet I'm paired with 4* or more enemies.
    Similar problem as with squad arena is with galactic battle. I'm getting wiped a lot of times in first three nodes.

    You're placed on a new fleet leaderboard, not based on the time you started playing, but based on the time you unlocked fleet (wich apparantly was when you started playing again). This may very well work in your favour actually.
    galactic war is not based on the time you started playing either, but on your current roster.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    You're placed on a new fleet leaderboard, not based on the time you started playing, but based on the time you unlocked fleet (wich apparantly was when you started playing again). This may very well work in your favour actually.
    galactic war is not based on the time you started playing either, but on your current roster.

    Hmm, that's weird. For example I just opened fleet arena. I'm on 631 rank (at the minimal reward possible). I have right now 25k power (I'm working on it, but I was not focusing on it). And I got paired with three guys with powers: 81k, 52k, 67k.

    And for galactic war. I don't know. Maybe just characters that I own got nerfed or the new ones are much stronger, but I remember finishing whole galactic war without much trouble. Now I very rarely go beyond 5th or 6th node.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    You're placed on a new fleet leaderboard, not based on the time you started playing, but based on the time you unlocked fleet (wich apparantly was when you started playing again). This may very well work in your favour actually.
    galactic war is not based on the time you started playing either, but on your current roster.

    Hmm, that's weird. For example I just opened fleet arena. I'm on 631 rank (at the minimal reward possible). I have right now 25k power (I'm working on it, but I was not focusing on it). And I got paired with three guys with powers: 81k, 52k, 67k.
    just out of curiousity, what player level are those 3 guys? I'm guessing most of the players on your fleet leaderboard have a lower player leven than you have. To be honest, i'm not entirely sure how it all works, but it's safe to say you're not on a fleet leaderboard with players who started around the same time you did (over 2y ago).
    And for galactic war. I don't know. Maybe just characters that I own got nerfed or the new ones are much stronger, but I remember finishing whole galactic war without much trouble. Now I very rarely go beyond 5th or 6th node.

    That's a fair point. The most powerfull characters 2 years ago aren't all that powerfull anymore compared to the characters released more recently. however, that's not really a unique disadvantage of this particular game, but in general taking a 2y long break puts you at a disadvantage in all progression based games.
    Also worth noting is that galactic war has been reworked more than once since the last time you played though and new players (who didn't take a break) around your player level are struggling aswell.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    just out of curiousity, what player level are those 3 guys?

    They were 82, 75, 80.

    And about the other things. I don't know. I just feel that I'm in big disadvantage for making long break. I would not mind starting over if I would get some kind of buff or bonus items or something. But that will not be fair towards others.
  • swgohfan29
    1147 posts Member
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    just out of curiousity, what player level are those 3 guys?

    They were 82, 75, 80.

    And about the other things. I don't know. I just feel that I'm in big disadvantage for making long break. I would not mind starting over if I would get some kind of buff or bonus items or something. But that will not be fair towards others.

    so instead you should get placed into a easier shard? Time for me to take a break and access this fair solution!
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    Yes, I agree that grouping players by starting time is fair. But it's fair only as long as you do not make bigger break in playing (let's say 6+ months). If you want to start again, you have only those options that I mentioned earlier.

    It will be even more unfair if you actually paid for something with real money. If you want to start playing again you basically lose that money.

    This is the only game I encountered so far that punishes you hard for making longer pause in playing. You are not able to pick up where you left it and be competitive to others. In most of the games you are matched against the players that are +- equal to you.

    If you buy a new car, then neglect it for years, it's not the car companies fault if your tires rot from it sitting, or other things fail due to not being properly maintained.

    Rewarding someone who has not been committed to the game is not fair to the people who they are put up against that have been committed to the game.

    The issue in this game for what you suggest is that there is no good measure of who is +/- you, other than time. Money is the advantage you buy and it shortens time. Other than that time is the only constant, and having based on when you start, allows them to "reward" commitment.
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    I don't think car is a good analogy. Cars are "consumer goods" (or how to say it) but games are not. But whatever, I got your point.

    And you are looking at it from wrong direction. You are not rewarding players for being inactive. You are making players, that were incactive, able to catch up to others again. I don't want to have huge advantage or be right now better than the others. I just want to have the chance to compete with them.

    It's more like you obtain you driving licence. You put your time and money to a course to get it. Then you buy car (maybe more suitable analogy for mobile phone) and you drive it for some time. Then you realize, that train suits you more. So you stop driving your car and you start using train. After a year, you want to drive somewhere again. And do you have to attend some course again to obtain another driving license? No, you pick up the one that you already have, you refresh your skills and knowledge about rules and you start driving again. You will maybe need to buy a new car or repair it, but it has nothing to do with your license or driving skills.

    I think this analogy suits my problem much better.
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    just out of curiousity, what player level are those 3 guys?

    They were 82, 75, 80.

    And about the other things. I don't know. I just feel that I'm in big disadvantage for making long break. I would not mind starting over if I would get some kind of buff or bonus items or something. But that will not be fair towards others.

    so instead you should get placed into a easier shard? Time for me to take a break and access this fair solution!

    You don't get it. I don't want to have things easy. I don't want to be instantly better than others. I just want to have CHANCE to be competetive againt without starting again from beginning, without spending months of time or huge amount of money to be in at least in the similar state where I left it.
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    Your feedback is not the unique snowflake that you think it is. It's another dead horse that's been beaten into ground meat. That's why everybody here is telling you why it can't be done, why it shouldn't be done and what the practical solution which you can actually implement is.
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Huatimus wrote: »
    Your feedback is not the unique snowflake that you think it is. It's another dead horse that's been beaten into ground meat. That's why everybody here is telling you why it can't be done, why it shouldn't be done and what the practical solution which you can actually implement is.

    No, no, no. I exactly thought that this will happen. But you never know unless you try. I work as developer and I know that my feedback or my suggested solutions have very little chance to be accepted.

    However I still think that this is an issue that players encounter. In fact it's very frustrating issue if you want to pick up your account where you left it. And I think that devs should keep this in mind and maybe come with something on their own.

    But hey! Why would you pay attention to the minority of the people when majority is paying you good money, right?
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    You can still progress, and slowly (very slowly) make it back. I have an alt account (actualy my very first account) which I abandoned for 14 months before picking up where I had left it at level 30ish. 11 months later I'm ranking in the low 100s in squad arena. I was lucky to join a fairly young fleet shard, and 2 months ago, I began entering top—20 regularly and now even top—10. It has been a fun journey and I've enjoyed it very much.

    Yes, it will take months to get back to the high ranks, but you develop your roster just as fast as if you joined another shard.

    If you join a new shard with players, that only recently reached level 40, then you would of course progress much faster due to your 450 extra crystals daily, but thst wouldn't be fair to those new playets, would it?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    I don't think car is a good analogy. Cars are "consumer goods" (or how to say it) but games are not. But whatever, I got your point.

    And you are looking at it from wrong direction. You are not rewarding players for being inactive. You are making players, that were incactive, able to catch up to others again. I don't want to have huge advantage or be right now better than the others. I just want to have the chance to compete with them.

    It's more like you obtain you driving licence. You put your time and money to a course to get it. Then you buy car (maybe more suitable analogy for mobile phone) and you drive it for some time. Then you realize, that train suits you more. So you stop driving your car and you start using train. After a year, you want to drive somewhere again. And do you have to attend some course again to obtain another driving license? No, you pick up the one that you already have, you refresh your skills and knowledge about rules and you start driving again. You will maybe need to buy a new car or repair it, but it has nothing to do with your license or driving skills.

    I think this analogy suits my problem much better.

    Yes, my analogy was a little off, but the point remains.

    If you scale the timeline, and say you waited too long to drive again, and didnt maintain your renewals, you would need to get your license again... but that's all semantics at that point.

    Let's use a current example. You played a marquee and got sion at 3 star. You stop playing, then start again and are moved to a "new group", they started after the marquee event ended and cannot farm sion due to his location, yet. You have a 3 star toon they cant get yet, that would be an advantage you have over them, because you decided to take a break.

    There are other examples of things like this that can work out that way, and it's not game breaking but it would be unfair to a player who has been committed the whole time and just started later than you did.

    The game is about choices, if you choose to stop playing you have choices when you come back.

    Thia also allows them to just have a single steadfast way of doing things and no need to have a more complicated system of how to grade and match players that come back after breaks.
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    You can still progress, and slowly (very slowly) make it back. I have an alt account (actualy my very first account) which I abandoned for 14 months before picking up where I had left it at level 30ish. 11 months later I'm ranking in the low 100s in squad arena. I was lucky to join a fairly young fleet shard, and 2 months ago, I began entering top—20 regularly and now even top—10. It has been a fun journey and I've enjoyed it very much.

    Well, and for example if you will be boosted for some time from starting again, you will be able not to reach same state in a year, but in few months. Which is acceptable I think.

    Waqui wrote: »
    If you join a new shard with players, that only recently reached level 40, then you would of course progress much faster due to your 450 extra crystals daily, but thst wouldn't be fair to those new playets, would it?

    I don't want to join fresh 40lvl people in shard with my 70lvl. Let's say I'll join fresh 80lvl shard, so they won't be that ahead of me as they are right now.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    You're placed on a new fleet leaderboard, not based on the time you started playing, but based on the time you unlocked fleet (wich apparantly was when you started playing again). This may very well work in your favour actually.
    galactic war is not based on the time you started playing either, but on your current roster.

    Hmm, that's weird. For example I just opened fleet arena. I'm on 631 rank (at the minimal reward possible). I have right now 25k power (I'm working on it, but I was not focusing on it). And I got paired with three guys with powers: 81k, 52k, 67k.

    So, you were not focusing, but still you complain? At rank 600 already you can fairly easily get to top—500 for better rewards. If you focus on pilots and ships, then you will have a chance of reaching top—20 within a few months. Without focus you will never reach top ranks, neither in fleet arena nor in squad arena, so what would be the point of switching to a new shard in the first place?
  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Let's use a current example. You played a marquee and got sion at 3 star. You stop playing, then start again and are moved to a "new group", they started after the marquee event ended and cannot farm sion due to his location, yet. You have a 3 star toon they cant get yet, that would be an advantage you have over them, because you decided to take a break.

    Yes, I agree, I did not know about such events. I don't say that switching shards is the only solution. It certainly have some downsides. However I think there should be some mechanism at least to help "paused" players to reach others faster (than in 10+ months).
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    This is the only game I encountered so far that punishes you hard for making longer pause in playing. You are not able to pick up where you left it and be competitive to others. In most of the games you are matched against the players that are +- equal to you.

    You didn't get punished. Your roster and resources were the exact same when you came back as when you left it. It's just that other players developed their rosters, while you chose not to

  • Pyro2266
    11 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    This is the only game I encountered so far that punishes you hard for making longer pause in playing. You are not able to pick up where you left it and be competitive to others. In most of the games you are matched against the players that are +- equal to you.

    You didn't get punished. Your roster and resources were the exact same when you came back as when you left it. It's just that other players developed their rosters, while you chose not to

    Well yes, punished is strong word. And yes, my roster and resources are the same in people in MY SHARD developed meanwhile. That's completely fine. However shard consists of pretty small amount of players compared to all the players that are playing this game. And (I think) there is huge amount of players that are equal to me. And like in (nearly) all the other games with competitive elements, you should be matched with players +- equal to you to fully enjoy the game.
  • Pyro2266 wrote: »
    One of the solutions may be to buff somehow players that were longer inactive. For example if you was inactive for at least 6 months, then you will receive double multipliers to (nearly) everything in game for let's say two weeks. Something like the 2x event that's happening right now. It will make it much easier to catch up with other players in your shard.

    No, they don't need to reward people for going inactive. Giving some people a shortcut because they chose to stop for awhile isn't fair to those that built their roster though the grind.
  • Mao42
    2 posts Member
    I honestly think you guys just don't get it.
    Look at WoW. WoW is a fantastic example. Some people have more time on their hands than others - that's why WoW many years ago introduced the "rested" bonus state that boosted XP gain for characters inactive for some amount of time to counter the always-progressing / always-online grinders. Just to keep the game competetive and fun for a larger player base. And it is not penalizing anybody, nor giving an unfair advantage to anyone.

    I mean one of the reasons why there is a concept of "energy" in the game is to put a cap to how big an advantage can a hardcore player get compared to a more casual one. When a game gets unbalanced it stops being fun, and then it starts to loose players, which in turn diminishes the profits.
    To learn more about the nature and design aspects of energy systems see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQtFo_E_Ea0
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Pyro2266 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Let's use a current example. You played a marquee and got sion at 3 star. You stop playing, then start again and are moved to a "new group", they started after the marquee event ended and cannot farm sion due to his location, yet. You have a 3 star toon they cant get yet, that would be an advantage you have over them, because you decided to take a break.

    Yes, I agree, I did not know about such events. I don't say that switching shards is the only solution. It certainly have some downsides. However I think there should be some mechanism at least to help "paused" players to reach others faster (than in 10+ months).

    There are 2 and they are the same for everyone, play on or start over. Not everyone likes the start they got, and some took breaks, but we are all in the same boat.

    Any solution to reach others fast in this game is $$ and that wont change, and really shouldn't IMHO
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