So i guess it is heroic sith or bust. Our lower-to-mid-tier guild will just do heroic pit (which we can do very quickly) and hAAT for gear. Non-heroic Sith Raid is basically a waste of time.
It was anticipated that with the new announced gear there will be changes that are not necessarily beneficial for the player, I fthe total value of the distributed rewards remains the same as now I am ok with it.
But what is really need understandable is the there is no improvement in terms of the barely used challenge gear and classics like the mk4 Carb or the mk6 furnace. The standard sentence "We are actively monitoring player feedback and progress across other tiers" is just not believable anymore. How many posts are necessary that there is a change? This changes should be made not only in Sith Raid but across all rewards including TB. As long as that stuff is in the reward table - its just not rewards. I dont see the point in doing the work of a week long TB just for getting another 40 of those hated mk 4 Carbs. It is really necessary that CG shows up how they will handle the issue. Those constant wishy-washy excuses with monitoring are just not believable anymore.
So current agenda is to make advanced players even more disconnected from the rest.
This will only make guilds break apart. What's the point in being #11-#20 if only top 10 are getting stuff which actually makes difference? Obviously, if they even get it but this is another story.
In other words, if I'm in the teens in HSR at this moment my best bet to get G12 in reasonable pace is to move to a guild which is struggling, but killing it, thus become top 10 and through investment of even more time, money and abandoning my friends, get observable progress of my game?
By making rewards for top 10 better you're not encouraging anyone to improve and reach 10. You're making it impossible by design.
This doesn't even require explanation. Just read what you wrote. The game isn't about skill but numbers. Some being "random".
Context:
When I joined my current guild some weeks back I was 40+ in HSR, I was actually keen to improve because in the 30s and 20s you could get something of value. Now I'm in 10-20 but top 10 is simply light years away. With the nerf to everyone but them - how is the rest supposed to "get good" (as some would say) ? Are people supposed to struggle and accumulate thousands more of challenge gear until top players get bored, be nice and score low or just pass after 7-starring Traya?
What a joke. It's impossible to subplant those ahead of you, espessially when they create a power gap like this. The only way to get tourself into the top 10 ahead of others would be to 1: convince your leader to kick people in the top 10, move guilds, or hope that in 6 months a few people start to treat hsith like hrancor letting you sneak up the power pole.
Or spend thousands to leap frog them! But then you also have to magically hit the mod lottery, which apparently, has also been nerfed in the speed secondary department.
Welp, thanks devs for making me finally bite the bullet and register zero from now on. I can't compete within my guild to get top 10 and aside from Traya shards a full G12 was all I had to look forward to.
One less thing to worry about in this game.
So bring your entire guild down with you because you can compete with the big dogs? Seems selfish. Work to become a top 10. Zero posters should get the boot. Help your team and enjoy those Traya shards that most of us are not getting.
10 people in my guild can complete the entire HST by themselves. There are people with over 4 million GP, and those with the biggest rosters can get the biggest scores.
So nope, unless I change guilds or people decide to nerf their scores I'll never get top 10.
Ok, so you should expect lower rewards because you can’t contribute as much as they do. Sounds like you are getting carried. Be happy your guild can do the HSTR. How long have you been with your guild?
Your response is horrible, you can't just assume people are being carried because they can't hit the top 10. Shame on you for saying that, I regularly hit over 6 million damage, I place between 12-20, I'm definitely not being carried, I just can't compete with people who have 1 million more GP than me, is that so bad? You're either clueless or you're trolling with that comment
I can double the amount of Priuses but they ain't winning the Indy 500.
I can see your thinking, but you're thinking the wrong way. Instead of trying to see if more of the only viable team makes a difference, ALLOW MORE TEAMS TO BE VIABLE.
RJT is by no means a Prius in this game....
@CG_SBCrumb Doubling the amount of RJT the third time around most likely means that the RJT owners are very spread out. First time around you get the whales and big spenders. Often highly concentrated in high end guilds. Second time around was all the people who prepared for her and more light spenders, high end f2p. Probably still concentrated in high end guilds, some more spread out. Third time around it's going to be a much larger number of people yes, but the more average player that is getting RJT the third time around is going to be spread out through a wider variety of guilds, and the middle "tier" of guilds that are doing T4/T5 of the Sith raid are probably all getting a couple of RJTs, but there are far more guilds at that level. Sure the number of RJT in the wild doubled, but that doesn't mean that all of those guilds are going to be able to move up to heroic (the only tier with decent rewards), it just means there are now a lot more players, who have high end heroic quality teams, in guilds that are unable to move up a tier because the whole guild isn't exactly the same.
RJT is essentially the only team worthwhile in P1 of heroic. We all get it. But just because the # of RJT doubled doesn't mean that everyone is going to move up to heroic and forget about the laughably bad rewards from the lower tiers. A couple RJT in every mid-tier guild is what's happening. Sure it might push some over the edge from T6 to heroic, but the mid-tier guilds are still in a really bad spot. Honestly, never been happier that a few of us left our old guild to move to a new heroic ready guild when it was released simply because if I were still in a guild doing T5/T6 I'd be miserable.
I understand trying to fix the rewards for heroic to be in line with what you had intended them to be, but if lower tier guilds aren't getting the gear that can help them get toons to g12, and then more pieces of g12 gear as well, theres no point in having lower tiers.
On a different note, I'm not sure how I feel about the ranks 20-50 all getting the same rewards. That means people who generally rank in the 20-30 range are going to have on average lower rewards than they could've expected, and it also means the 10 people who posted 0s and didn't help with that particular raid are getting the same rewards as the people who are putting up 5+ million damage in the 20s. I know it's a group effort, but if they aren't able to help with that particular raid, I don't really get why they should be getting the same reward box as someone who sent in multiple teams and spent an hour to get a solid score to help the guild finish the raid.
So current agenda is to make advanced players even more disconnected from the rest.
This will only make guilds break apart. What's the point in being #11-#20 if only top 10 are getting stuff which actually makes difference? Obviously, if they even get it but this is another story.
In other words, if I'm in the teens in HSR at this moment my best bet to get G12 in reasonable pace is to move to a guild which is struggling, but killing it, thus become top 10 and through investment of even more time, money and abandoning my friends, get observable progress of my game?
By making rewards for top 10 better you're not encouraging anyone to improve and reach 10. You're making it impossible by design.
This doesn't even require explanation. Just read what you wrote. The game isn't about skill but numbers. Some being "random".
Context:
When I joined my current guild some weeks back I was 40+ in HSR, I was actually keen to improve because in the 30s and 20s you could get something of value. Now I'm in 10-20 but top 10 is simply light years away. With the nerf to everyone but them - how is the rest supposed to "get good" (as some would say) ? Are people supposed to struggle and accumulate thousands more of challenge gear until top players get bored, be nice and score low or just pass after 7-starring Traya?
It also discourages players from doing what’s best for the guild. I hold my JTR team for P2 because I can get 2-3% more than others and that goes a long way in P2. So I trade 4mil+ dmg in P1 for 2mil max in P2... and now I get donked even worse for doing that
I say they just throw a full mkv stun gun prototype for everyone in 11-50 and that should help bridge the gap
I may be playing the fool here... But @CG_SBCrumb 's statement regarding GMY rework for the raid may be more telling than it seems.
Ultimately, I am as exhausted as anyone about the lack of proper focus on CGs part, but I cannot expect that they would outright ignore the actual issue at hand... This rework may turn out to be more significant than we expect.
Or I could be favoring blind optimism. We will see tomorrow
I'd really appreciate some legitimate explanation of why the lower tiers are not being changed. If you're not going to fix our rewards, just come out and say so, and tell us why.
Your comments in the STR feedback thread have not gone unnoticed. We are still reviewing Tiers 1 through 6 of the Sith Raid regarding player progress. We want to see the results of the return of Rey’s Hero’s Journey which doubled the number of JTRs in the wild and should result in a significant boost to raid progress. Also Grand Master Yoda’s reworked kit (more details coming tomorrow!) should allow him to help with Sith Raid performance as well.
In addition, we will address other experiential concerns that we have pulled from numerous sources including the official forums and Reddit after we are able to gauge the impact of these changes on the raid.
We will continue to keep you posted on these upcoming changes.
The number of JTR additions to the game and GMY helping our cause doesn't really change anything. Regardless of difficulty you CG yourselves have stated that The original raid rewards unfairly favored the upper end and would create a huge imbalance in gear between the two factions (top percent vs the bottom). So you guys fixed it. . . Then the backlash from HSTR guilds was huge and you guys took the easy road and reverted the entire reward fix. Most lower tier guilds were happy with the changes as a starting point. could you not have reverted HSTR back to normal and then left the lower tiers with the new changes? This would have reduced the gap slightly? All you've done is slowed the pace of how fast HSTR guilds can G12 multiple characters and replaced it with exclusive gear that will now further them from the lower tier guilds. In essence they've gone five months with pulling in massive amounts of g12 gear and now they get to pull new G12+ gear while the rest of us in the lower tiers get to pull the same gear period. You guys should be ashamed to even put it in your post that you don't want to widen the gap between high and low. Just state your real intentions of wanting us to leave our guilds in search of the next HSTR guild opening.
Welp, thanks devs for making me finally bite the bullet and register zero from now on. I can't compete within my guild to get top 10 and aside from Traya shards a full G12 was all I had to look forward to.
One less thing to worry about in this game.
So bring your entire guild down with you because you can compete with the big dogs? Seems selfish. Work to become a top 10. Zero posters should get the boot. Help your team and enjoy those Traya shards that most of us are not getting.
10 people in my guild can complete the entire HST by themselves. There are people with over 4 million GP, and those with the biggest rosters can get the biggest scores.
So nope, unless I change guilds or people decide to nerf their scores I'll never get top 10.
Ok, so you should expect lower rewards because you can’t contribute as much as they do. Sounds like you are getting carried. Be happy your guild can do the HSTR. How long have you been with your guild?
That’s not how it works. Especially with the P4 bug and the fact that someone will get bonus damage simply by being the player in the raid when DN or Sion goes below 5%... so because of a bug and a bad dmg allocation design someone could finish in front of me without technically doing more damage and I get gipped on rewards as well? Neato
I may be playing the fool here... But @CG_SBCrumb 's statement regarding GMY rework for the raid may be more telling than it seems.
Ultimately, I am as exhausted as anyone about the lack of proper focus on CGs part, but I cannot expect that they would outright ignore the actual issue at hand... This rework may turn out to be more significant than we expect.
Or I could be favoring blind optimism. We will see tomorrow
You still have to gear GM Yoda if he’s not already 12 and that will be impossible given the bad drops in 1-6 STR and only challenge gear dropping for the other raids. (Just barely an exaggeration on my part)
Welp, thanks devs for making me finally bite the bullet and register zero from now on. I can't compete within my guild to get top 10 and aside from Traya shards a full G12 was all I had to look forward to.
One less thing to worry about in this game.
So bring your entire guild down with you because you can compete with the big dogs? Seems selfish. Work to become a top 10. Zero posters should get the boot. Help your team and enjoy those Traya shards that most of us are not getting.
10 people in my guild can complete the entire HST by themselves. There are people with over 4 million GP, and those with the biggest rosters can get the biggest scores.
So nope, unless I change guilds or people decide to nerf their scores I'll never get top 10.
Ok, so you should expect lower rewards because you can’t contribute as much as they do. Sounds like you are getting carried. Be happy your guild can do the HSTR. How long have you been with your guild?
That’s not how it works. Especially with the P4 bug and the fact that someone will get bonus damage simply by being the player in the raid when DN or Sion goes below 5%... so because of a bug and a bad dmg allocation design someone could finish in front of me without technically doing more damage and I get gipped on rewards as well? Neato
Ignore this kid, he's obviously a troll! He thinks being in the top 10 means carrying 40 members and that everyone else is not pulling their weight. Such an incredibly ignorant statement
I have been in 4 guilds that have broken up over the Sith raid. It just hasn’t been a good gaming experience. Everyone said that the Sith raid would be a guild breaker. Did no one at CG care?
I like it, now thre is an incentive for both a 0 and max damage as well as in between. I suppose for me personally it will come down to schedule, but it seems like a fair trade. I do agree, G12 crafted was way to much but 0 was way to small. A semi-fixed drop rate is much better. OFC there is only a handfull of characters that require certain items, while almost all of them need a medpack or armatek multitool, a more balanced aproach to the rewards across all tiers would be better - I heard armor, chip and g12 that is needed by a handfull of toons frop verry much so far while the medpack and multi tools are like ultra rare drops in HSTR
I have been in 4 guilds that have broken up over the Sith raid. It just hasn’t been a good gaming experience. Everyone said that the Sith raid would be a guild breaker. Did no one at CG care?
My guild already has rumblings in our Discord about breaking up. People want to go to guilds that will be able to get these rewards. We are currently working on Tier 3 and ready to move to Tier 4 STR. HAAT and HPIT on lock.
I think it's sad that CG is dangling a carrot out there in front of my guild members to pull them away from me. Only my real life friends are willing to hang out and try to make it work, but the ones we've met online and gre together are ready to "chase the carrot" even though it destroys all we've worked years to build.
Not sure what all the complaining is around, cg changed the payout for heroic sith because it was dropping absurd gear in the 1-3 spots making those players snowball out of reach from all other players. The next fix will be to the non heroic levels.
Not sure what all the complaining is around, cg changed the payout for heroic sith because it was dropping absurd gear in the 1-3 spots making those players snowball out of reach from all other players. The next fix will be to the non heroic levels.
I can't speak for everyone, but the people i have talked to tonight see a bad pattern developing here. Locking the top gear (g12+) behind payouts for the heroic STR. With no other way to obtain the gear. The fact that CG has labeled it as exclusive is driving people to want to split up and leave guild members behind that haven't had time to develop their account to that point yet. It encourages leaving guilds and leaving people behind for self gain. NOT a friendly way to encourage teamwork.
Ranks 1-3 will earn 50%-100% of the G12+ components required for one piece of exclusive G12+ gear.
For all of the other ranks you gave the average / expected amount here as well as the range. Can you provide the expected distribution for ranks 1-3 as well?
hey, so, I read your sith raid feedback thread, did you? 90% of the positive feedback was 'heroic rewards are good' and this is the one thing you change. Um, ok, brilliant plan. Do y'all actually sit around discussing this in meetings or is everyone 'working from home' while ry_diggs is making all the decisions?
hey, so, I read your sith raid feedback thread, did you? 90% of the positive feedback was 'heroic rewards are good' and this is the one thing you change. Um, ok, brilliant plan.
Haha yeah right? Tier 1-6 suck, heroic is really nice and yet they only change this ... It's like they want an angry player base
This gear inflow was far beyond our original intent, and without changes would have driven a gap between the top 0.1% of players and the rest of the game that would have been impossible to close. It would have caused us to be unable to keep rewards and incentives balanced across gear levels in the long run. However, between the difficulty of the Raid, the changes to on-damage effects in Phases 3 & 4, the changes to the Expose mechanic, we decided to leave the rewards in as implemented until G12+ was ready, out of respect for the massive investment players made into their Sith Raid teams at launch. Our first pass at changing raid rewards was not well-received, further confirming that changes could only be made when we were ready to introduce a new, exclusive reward.
I guess I don't understand how this change addresses this problem? People who've been clearing this raid for 3 months now have a huge stockpile of left-side 'old' G12 gear, and anyone coming into HSTR will be unable to ever catch up with them short of finishing top 10 in their guild for a 'chance' (lol) at one piece. I don't understand how turning off the gear tap at this point does anything other than exacerbate the gap between the high end guilds and everyone else. If you were uncomfortable with the old rewards structure making G12 pieces too trivial, the time to address that was 3 months ago. This change is pretty far from equitable, given those G12 pieces are now going to be trivial for just some of the player base
This seems similar to the pre-crafting issues from a few years ago - people who got in on the ground floor are advantaged and everyone else can deal with being on the back foot forever. I have no idea why parity and equality of opportunity are not priorities in designing this game.
As someone who does not do Heroic sith raid (my guild will need AT LEAST half a year, probably more to get there, and I wish to stay in my guild), I would like to express my feelings about this.
Only, I cannot. What I would like to say to the devs not only grossly violates the terms of conduct for this website, but would probably violate the Geneva convention.
In short, devs: however low you imagine I think of you, the reality is worse.
Replies
But what is really need understandable is the there is no improvement in terms of the barely used challenge gear and classics like the mk4 Carb or the mk6 furnace. The standard sentence "We are actively monitoring player feedback and progress across other tiers" is just not believable anymore. How many posts are necessary that there is a change? This changes should be made not only in Sith Raid but across all rewards including TB. As long as that stuff is in the reward table - its just not rewards. I dont see the point in doing the work of a week long TB just for getting another 40 of those hated mk 4 Carbs. It is really necessary that CG shows up how they will handle the issue. Those constant wishy-washy excuses with monitoring are just not believable anymore.
This will only make guilds break apart. What's the point in being #11-#20 if only top 10 are getting stuff which actually makes difference? Obviously, if they even get it but this is another story.
In other words, if I'm in the teens in HSR at this moment my best bet to get G12 in reasonable pace is to move to a guild which is struggling, but killing it, thus become top 10 and through investment of even more time, money and abandoning my friends, get observable progress of my game?
By making rewards for top 10 better you're not encouraging anyone to improve and reach 10. You're making it impossible by design.
This doesn't even require explanation. Just read what you wrote. The game isn't about skill but numbers. Some being "random".
Context:
When I joined my current guild some weeks back I was 40+ in HSR, I was actually keen to improve because in the 30s and 20s you could get something of value. Now I'm in 10-20 but top 10 is simply light years away. With the nerf to everyone but them - how is the rest supposed to "get good" (as some would say) ? Are people supposed to struggle and accumulate thousands more of challenge gear until top players get bored, be nice and score low or just pass after 7-starring Traya?
https://swgoh.gg/u/xezee/
Or spend thousands to leap frog them! But then you also have to magically hit the mod lottery, which apparently, has also been nerfed in the speed secondary department.
Your response is horrible, you can't just assume people are being carried because they can't hit the top 10. Shame on you for saying that, I regularly hit over 6 million damage, I place between 12-20, I'm definitely not being carried, I just can't compete with people who have 1 million more GP than me, is that so bad? You're either clueless or you're trolling with that comment
RJT is by no means a Prius in this game....
@CG_SBCrumb Doubling the amount of RJT the third time around most likely means that the RJT owners are very spread out. First time around you get the whales and big spenders. Often highly concentrated in high end guilds. Second time around was all the people who prepared for her and more light spenders, high end f2p. Probably still concentrated in high end guilds, some more spread out. Third time around it's going to be a much larger number of people yes, but the more average player that is getting RJT the third time around is going to be spread out through a wider variety of guilds, and the middle "tier" of guilds that are doing T4/T5 of the Sith raid are probably all getting a couple of RJTs, but there are far more guilds at that level. Sure the number of RJT in the wild doubled, but that doesn't mean that all of those guilds are going to be able to move up to heroic (the only tier with decent rewards), it just means there are now a lot more players, who have high end heroic quality teams, in guilds that are unable to move up a tier because the whole guild isn't exactly the same.
RJT is essentially the only team worthwhile in P1 of heroic. We all get it. But just because the # of RJT doubled doesn't mean that everyone is going to move up to heroic and forget about the laughably bad rewards from the lower tiers. A couple RJT in every mid-tier guild is what's happening. Sure it might push some over the edge from T6 to heroic, but the mid-tier guilds are still in a really bad spot. Honestly, never been happier that a few of us left our old guild to move to a new heroic ready guild when it was released simply because if I were still in a guild doing T5/T6 I'd be miserable.
I understand trying to fix the rewards for heroic to be in line with what you had intended them to be, but if lower tier guilds aren't getting the gear that can help them get toons to g12, and then more pieces of g12 gear as well, theres no point in having lower tiers.
On a different note, I'm not sure how I feel about the ranks 20-50 all getting the same rewards. That means people who generally rank in the 20-30 range are going to have on average lower rewards than they could've expected, and it also means the 10 people who posted 0s and didn't help with that particular raid are getting the same rewards as the people who are putting up 5+ million damage in the 20s. I know it's a group effort, but if they aren't able to help with that particular raid, I don't really get why they should be getting the same reward box as someone who sent in multiple teams and spent an hour to get a solid score to help the guild finish the raid.
It also discourages players from doing what’s best for the guild. I hold my JTR team for P2 because I can get 2-3% more than others and that goes a long way in P2. So I trade 4mil+ dmg in P1 for 2mil max in P2... and now I get donked even worse for doing that
I say they just throw a full mkv stun gun prototype for everyone in 11-50 and that should help bridge the gap
Ultimately, I am as exhausted as anyone about the lack of proper focus on CGs part, but I cannot expect that they would outright ignore the actual issue at hand... This rework may turn out to be more significant than we expect.
Or I could be favoring blind optimism. We will see tomorrow
The number of JTR additions to the game and GMY helping our cause doesn't really change anything. Regardless of difficulty you CG yourselves have stated that The original raid rewards unfairly favored the upper end and would create a huge imbalance in gear between the two factions (top percent vs the bottom). So you guys fixed it. . . Then the backlash from HSTR guilds was huge and you guys took the easy road and reverted the entire reward fix. Most lower tier guilds were happy with the changes as a starting point. could you not have reverted HSTR back to normal and then left the lower tiers with the new changes? This would have reduced the gap slightly? All you've done is slowed the pace of how fast HSTR guilds can G12 multiple characters and replaced it with exclusive gear that will now further them from the lower tier guilds. In essence they've gone five months with pulling in massive amounts of g12 gear and now they get to pull new G12+ gear while the rest of us in the lower tiers get to pull the same gear period. You guys should be ashamed to even put it in your post that you don't want to widen the gap between high and low. Just state your real intentions of wanting us to leave our guilds in search of the next HSTR guild opening.
That’s not how it works. Especially with the P4 bug and the fact that someone will get bonus damage simply by being the player in the raid when DN or Sion goes below 5%... so because of a bug and a bad dmg allocation design someone could finish in front of me without technically doing more damage and I get gipped on rewards as well? Neato
You still have to gear GM Yoda if he’s not already 12 and that will be impossible given the bad drops in 1-6 STR and only challenge gear dropping for the other raids. (Just barely an exaggeration on my part)
Ignore this kid, he's obviously a troll! He thinks being in the top 10 means carrying 40 members and that everyone else is not pulling their weight. Such an incredibly ignorant statement
My guild already has rumblings in our Discord about breaking up. People want to go to guilds that will be able to get these rewards. We are currently working on Tier 3 and ready to move to Tier 4 STR. HAAT and HPIT on lock.
I think it's sad that CG is dangling a carrot out there in front of my guild members to pull them away from me. Only my real life friends are willing to hang out and try to make it work, but the ones we've met online and gre together are ready to "chase the carrot" even though it destroys all we've worked years to build.
I can't speak for everyone, but the people i have talked to tonight see a bad pattern developing here. Locking the top gear (g12+) behind payouts for the heroic STR. With no other way to obtain the gear. The fact that CG has labeled it as exclusive is driving people to want to split up and leave guild members behind that haven't had time to develop their account to that point yet. It encourages leaving guilds and leaving people behind for self gain. NOT a friendly way to encourage teamwork.
Ranks 1-3 will earn 50%-100% of the G12+ components required for one piece of exclusive G12+ gear.
For all of the other ranks you gave the average / expected amount here as well as the range. Can you provide the expected distribution for ranks 1-3 as well?
Haha yeah right? Tier 1-6 suck, heroic is really nice and yet they only change this ... It's like they want an angry player base
I guess I don't understand how this change addresses this problem? People who've been clearing this raid for 3 months now have a huge stockpile of left-side 'old' G12 gear, and anyone coming into HSTR will be unable to ever catch up with them short of finishing top 10 in their guild for a 'chance' (lol) at one piece. I don't understand how turning off the gear tap at this point does anything other than exacerbate the gap between the high end guilds and everyone else. If you were uncomfortable with the old rewards structure making G12 pieces too trivial, the time to address that was 3 months ago. This change is pretty far from equitable, given those G12 pieces are now going to be trivial for just some of the player base
This seems similar to the pre-crafting issues from a few years ago - people who got in on the ground floor are advantaged and everyone else can deal with being on the back foot forever. I have no idea why parity and equality of opportunity are not priorities in designing this game.
Only, I cannot. What I would like to say to the devs not only grossly violates the terms of conduct for this website, but would probably violate the Geneva convention.
In short, devs: however low you imagine I think of you, the reality is worse.