The ongoing destruction of small guilds

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ThwartedThrawn
57 posts Member
edited June 2018
As a leader of a 40k mill GP guild, I find it obvious that Capital Games don't want small guild like ours. With the new g12+ update, which is only obtainable via Heroic Sith Raid, this is very clear. A small guild can never run Heroic Sith raid, so this is another slap in our face.
Post edited by Kyno on

Replies

  • Preach it reverend
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.
  • Muaddib
    563 posts Member
    Not yet no... At a guild level of 40M... how many g12 toons can you all have at this point that you need/are ready for those rewards? You all will progress and get there just like the rest of us have. This is the lifecycle and how it's always been. HPit was TOUGH for 90% of guilds to finish when it launched. Tier 6 of AAT raid when it first launched was insane. The guild I was in at the time took (literally) a month to complete our first Tier6. And that was the only other option other than heroic. There still are no tiers below that for smaller GP guilds to cut their teeth on. I know this feels like a huge impossible obstacle right now for your guild, but guilds over 150M GP need a challenge too. I don't always love the changes in this game, but they have to play to all levels of players and guilds - they are not catering an experience to just you. It's not personal... it's building the next goal.
  • Stenun
    851 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    But they're not being punished for being a new player, they're being punished for being in a small guild.

    I have CLS, RJT and all the Mythic characters and fleets. I rank high in the Arena - both of them.
    But I am unlikely to get any of the Heroic Sith rewards - ever. Because I belong to a smaller - friendly, non-elite - guild. So I am going to be outclassed not by players who are better than me but by players purely because they belong to another guild.

    That's unfair.
  • Have patience, it's unrealistic for newish players to expect the latest raid toons
  • Stenun
    851 posts Member
    DarthSerf wrote: »
    Have patience, it's unrealistic for newish players to expect the latest raid toons

    No, we're not talking about new or even newish players. We're talking about powerful long time players in a small guild.
  • Dk_rek
    3299 posts Member
    We just want a DEV or Crumb or someone to explain the war on non elite guilds what is so hard about telling us why.

    90 % of the player base does not want to belong to some "corporate guild with 5 sub guilds spouting trash all day acting like a Sgt Major and getting booted because your not at role call"

    What is the financial benefit to CG to destroy guild after guild after guild until your forced to be part of one of these chain guilds run by a bunch kids who have a superiority complex....

    Is it you want your mega whales running guilds because a mega whale running a guild even if he's toxic to the game or community is less likely to stop whaling ????

    Please explain SOMEONE upstair please explain the simple "War on guilds" your performing over and over IT IS TOXIC to the community maybe not to your CEO's bottom line but toxic to the community....

    That's probably NOT beneficial to the CEO's bottom line down the road
  • Muaddib
    563 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    But they're not being punished for being a new player, they're being punished for being in a small guild.

    I have CLS, RJT and all the Mythic characters and fleets. I rank high in the Arena - both of them.
    But I am unlikely to get any of the Heroic Sith rewards - ever. Because I belong to a smaller - friendly, non-elite - guild. So I am going to be outclassed not by players who are better than me but by players purely because they belong to another guild.

    That's unfair.

    Ever? Your guild won't ever improve? You can't buy these things from the store with your arena winning crystals? (the new pieces WILL hit stores eventually, they always do) Staying in your guild is your choice. CG isn't punishing you personally for staying. That's not unfair... that's player/guild progression. The new shiny raid gets the new shiny gear/toon. This isn't new or a surprise. CG def earns their lumps of coal for some issues. Putting the best gear/toons in the hardest challenges is as old as games and certainly not CG specific.
  • Pieriku
    73 posts Member
    Stenum has understood my point. We are a few (about 10) seasoned, high ranking players in our guild, the rest have just recently reached level 85. 40 members. We do not want to break up the guild just because of Darth Traya shards and G12+ gear, which means these are not obtainable to us. And not because we are new at the game, as we are not.

    Same for me. I"ve been playing for over 2 years. Have almost all the characters (missing the droid probe, the Wampa and Darth Traya), almost all of them are 7 star, a lot of zeta and G12, can solo most of the HAAT but my guild is only 50M GP and I don't want to leave this friendly guild for a competitive one.
  • Muaddib wrote: »
    I don't always love the changes in this game, but they have to play to all levels of players and guilds.

    Pretty sure high end players get more than lower end. Haha.
  • Stenun
    851 posts Member
    We have 3 or 4 really strong players in our guild. We have a dozen or so mid-level and the rest of us are slow or occasional or new players. And that's fine. We can still do Heroic Rancor, we're having fun as a Guild putting teams together to take out Heroic Tank ... and now suddenly the 3 or 4 elite players are going to start seeing their Arena suffer badly just because their opponent's belong to another Guild.

    It's not just about getting exclusive characters anymore, it's about getting the best stuff for the characters that everyone has when other players can't get it.
    It's going to create an uneven playing field.

    And that will see smaller guilds losing players to the bigger guilds until they fall apart.
  • Dk_rek wrote: »
    We just want a DEV or Crumb or someone to explain the war on non elite guilds what is so hard about telling us why.

    90 % of the player base does not want to belong to some "corporate guild with 5 sub guilds spouting trash all day acting like a Sgt Major and getting booted because your not at role call"

    What is the financial benefit to CG to destroy guild after guild after guild until your forced to be part of one of these chain guilds run by a bunch kids who have a superiority complex....

    Is it you want your mega whales running guilds because a mega whale running a guild even if he's toxic to the game or community is less likely to stop whaling ????

    Please explain SOMEONE upstair please explain the simple "War on guilds" your performing over and over IT IS TOXIC to the community maybe not to your CEO's bottom line but toxic to the community....

    That's probably NOT beneficial to the CEO's bottom line down the road

    Couldn’t agree more. +10000000000
  • Bz183
    170 posts Member
    If you are in a small guild (under 40 mil) you most likely have a roster that is not HSR ready.
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    But they're not being punished for being a new player, they're being punished for being in a small guild.

    It's a shame that players can't upgrade their characters. If they could then their GP would grow, and their guild would get stronger. Oh wait...
  • BionicGolem
    167 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    .
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    We just want a DEV or Crumb or someone to explain the war on non elite guilds what is so hard about telling us why.

    90 % of the player base does not want to belong to some "corporate guild with 5 sub guilds spouting trash all day acting like a Sgt Major and getting booted because your not at role call"

    What is the financial benefit to CG to destroy guild after guild after guild until your forced to be part of one of these chain guilds run by a bunch kids who have a superiority complex....

    Is it you want your mega whales running guilds because a mega whale running a guild even if he's toxic to the game or community is less likely to stop whaling ????

    Please explain SOMEONE upstair please explain the simple "War on guilds" your performing over and over IT IS TOXIC to the community maybe not to your CEO's bottom line but toxic to the community....

    That's probably NOT beneficial to the CEO's bottom line down the road

    I belong to guild that now does hSith easy beacuse all of us worked hard for it. We are one guild, dont belong to any cluster of guilds, we dont have any whales, just few(and i mean few) dolphins. If people want end game content they should join other players that are ready for it or work hard on teams that work in hSith raid and/or find some guild that may lend you players to help with hSith from time to time.
  • Jaconis
    39 posts Member
    I don’t understand people’s frustration, or at least their surprise. This is exactly the way every single MMO operates. You want the best as soon as it’s available in an MMO? It comes from group content. That means you need a group of people who are the best. You don’t like that, play a single player game. If you don’t like carrying new players, don’t let them join your guild.

    Should a WoW guild that lets people raid who started playing a month ago be able to compete for world firsts because content is that easy?
  • Stenun
    851 posts Member
    Muaddib wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    But they're not being punished for being a new player, they're being punished for being in a small guild.

    I have CLS, RJT and all the Mythic characters and fleets. I rank high in the Arena - both of them.
    But I am unlikely to get any of the Heroic Sith rewards - ever. Because I belong to a smaller - friendly, non-elite - guild. So I am going to be outclassed not by players who are better than me but by players purely because they belong to another guild.

    That's unfair.

    Ever? Your guild won't ever improve? You can't buy these things from the store with your arena winning crystals? (the new pieces WILL hit stores eventually, they always do) Staying in your guild is your choice. CG isn't punishing you personally for staying. That's not unfair... that's player/guild progression. The new shiny raid gets the new shiny gear/toon. This isn't new or a surprise. CG def earns their lumps of coal for some issues. Putting the best gear/toons in the hardest challenges is as old as games and certainly not CG specific.

    Of course the guild will improve, but it's slow.
    We're being punished for staying in a smaller guild with newer players and encouraging new talent coming through! *lol* jk

    Exclusive characters is one thing but if suddenly my CLS is outclassed by my opponent's CLS purely because my opponent belongs to a different guild, suddenly I'm going to lose and, as you say, the temptation to leave and join a different guild will grow.

    And so I do that.

    And then all the other elite players in my guild do it, too. What's left of the current guild?

    They won't even be able to do Heroic Rancor. The guild will collapse.

    THAT is the problem.

    It is unfair to the players in smaller guilds and it will cause the death of those guilds if the players have to leave.
  • Muaddib
    563 posts Member
    Muaddib wrote: »
    I don't always love the changes in this game, but they have to play to all levels of players and guilds.

    Pretty sure high end players get more than lower end. Haha.

    Does that surprise you?
    And please... I do understand the rewards/challenge for the STR under Heroic is NOT balanced and that is holding progression back to an extent.
    I'm not trying to be a **** here... but every time I see these posts all I can think is "Do you think 'competitive' guilds are not friendly?" I've been in something like 6 different guilds (some alliances of guilds, most not) and only one was "unfriendly" and it was super easy to move on. The rest, ESPECIALLY the alliance guilds have been full of truly wonderful people. Frankly, it's mostly the forum here I find toxic. Most players are great in the vast majority of guilds. Seems like Sten and TThrawn are in different guilds but similar situations. Maybe you two should get together and Voltron up. Not to get to HSTR, but to combine two great groups of people.
  • Stenun
    851 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    But they're not being punished for being a new player, they're being punished for being in a small guild.

    It's a shame that players can't upgrade their characters. If they could then their GP would grow, and their guild would get stronger. Oh wait...

    It's a shame that small guilds CAN'T now upgrade their characters in the same way that larger guilds can.

    That is the whole point. (was very tempted to post that sentence in all caps)

    We CAN'T match the upgrades of the characters of larger guilds!
  • BubbaFett
    3311 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    That is a ridiculous statement..... Op is not "crybabying"..... I don't care how long you have played the game, gear has NEVER been reserved for the elite.... Everyone has always had access to the same gear if they paid their dues.....

    If he was whining about Traya, you would have a point..... Traya shards are the reward for hsith guilds.... They don't need exclusive gear.....

    Come.back and tell me how you feel when your bottom 40 guildies take off to.join a guild where they can be top ten to get 12+ gear.....
  • Stenun wrote: »
    We have 3 or 4 really strong players in our guild. We have a dozen or so mid-level and the rest of us are slow or occasional or new players. And that's fine. We can still do Heroic Rancor, we're having fun as a Guild putting teams together to take out Heroic Tank ... and now suddenly the 3 or 4 elite players are going to start seeing their Arena suffer badly just because their opponent's belong to another Guild.

    It's not just about getting exclusive characters anymore, it's about getting the best stuff for the characters that everyone has when other players can't get it.
    It's going to create an uneven playing field.

    And that will see smaller guilds losing players to the bigger guilds until they fall apart.

    I agree with this, at least everyone can buy the g12 gear from guild event store and shipments, but I think making gear only available through hstr is a bit unfair.
    As a leader of a 40k mill GP guild, I find it obvious that Capital Games don't want small guild like ours. With the new g12+ update, which is only obtainable via Heroic Sith Raid, this is very clear. A small guild can never run Heroic Sith raid, so this is another slap in our face.

    I remember when the guild was in took a month to do the aat, if you want to start a guild it takes a long time to build up because you get all the new players because already established guilds won't have them.
  • just to clarify a little on where my tiny guild is: most of us have Wampa and rHan, some have JTR and CLS.

    Then build squads in order to achieve the capability for HSTR.
    This is the same case with DS/LS TB. Larger guilds get more IPD, and ROLO.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Yea, content designed for 50 players is not going to be easily done by a smaller number early in its life.

    25-30 is probably doable.

    They made guilds 50 players for a reason. It gives them a design and balance point. Unfortunately they will not design content for smaller guilds, because it would be simple for a full guild and they want guilds to be full.
  • K33p3r_ofthe_C00L
    149 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    gear has NEVER been reserved for the elite....

    LOL
    I think any resource/reward is available for those who can afford them and for those who are eligible. Criteria may include Player level, Player resources/credits/crystals, Roster Eligibility, Player GP and Guild collective GP, etc.
    It has been like this from the start.

  • KueChael
    930 posts Moderator
    There are different types of ‘sizes’ for guilds. Quantity vs Quality when talking about guild size. To have both gets the greater rewards. Guilds with friends and family are fun. But I believe the point of raids in general is to challenge everyone in the game to progress their squad. And use their entire roster and guild to its max potential. I left my first guild as a result of carrying it on my shoulders too long and they couldn’t progress to the HAAT.

    I agree that the raids and subsequent rewards pull guilds apart. My current guild lost about 14 heroic ready members at the release of the STR . And just a couple days ago.... we completed the first heroic Sith raid. It was an amazing job by our leader and officers to coordinate, list teams, focus individuals and recruit members that wanted to win. We focused all our energy to get the proper current teams that succeed in the raid. It took a ton of energy and focus.

    The fact is that it took all 50 of us, with an average of 2.75 mil gp. So small guilds can’t complete it yet. Same as Rancor and HAAT when they first came out. But with the additional characters added to the game, new legends , new abilities and level cap raises; All the raids become easier. I agree that rewards need a slight bump at the lower levels,( being stuck at t6 for 3 months made me really appreciate the efforts myself and my guild was making.) But I can’t do anything about that. I’m only a mod.

    My only answer would be recruiting to max the quantity of the members in your guild with near identical gp. Find hungry members looking to improve -you can go to the guild recruiting right here in forums.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    But they're not being punished for being a new player, they're being punished for being in a small guild.

    [...]

    That's unfair.

    Nobody is being punished. Nobody has anything taken away from them. This is no different than Traya shards being available through heroic STR, GK shards through heroic AAT and Han Solo shards through heroic pit raids. It's a reward for completing those raids.
  • TVF
    36521 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    But they're not being punished for being a new player, they're being punished for being in a small guild.

    [...]

    That's unfair.

    Nobody is being punished. Nobody has anything taken away from them.

    We were doing T4. For one or two raids we got GEC. Then they took it away from us.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Everyone has to start somewhere. You have content you can complete already. Do that until you're ready for HSR. I remember years ago banging my head against a t5 Rancor raid for months before we graduated to heroic. Someone crybabying that they can't do the hardest content as a newish player is silly, and obnoxious.

    That is a ridiculous statement..... Op is not "crybabying"..... I don't care how long you have played the game, gear has NEVER been reserved for the elite.... Everyone has always had access to the same gear if they paid their dues.....

    If he was whining about Traya, you would have a point..... Traya shards are the reward for hsith guilds.... They don't need exclusive gear.....

    Come.back and tell me how you feel when your bottom 40 guildies take off to.join a guild where they can be top ten to get 12+ gear.....

    Nobody is getting access to new gear levels. Just 2 slots. And everyone doing heroic Sith played for months or years without stocking these new pieces away. Newer players can do the same. Low level players in low level guilds can get low level rewards just like all higher levels players did for a very long time to get to that point. In fact newer players get drastically more free loot than OG players did at the same time in their development, so they will progress to that point much faster all things being equal... or they can cry about not get everything right now.

    Also I would bet the number of players in a 40 million GP guild that would be wanted by 120 million GP guilds doing HSR is tiny. No threat of a mass exodus so your fear of "guildies taking off" is silly.

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