Thrawn TM Swap
If I swap TM with an ally, how can another ally or enemy go before the ally that I swapped with does? Seems to negate what a turn is in that who I swapped with should immediately go.
Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
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This.
You can even "swap" tm with someone at 100% TM and have thrawn go before that toon...... it would be great if this was addressed with direct TM abilities like this.
Hahaha yep, that drives me slightly crazy when it happens. With that said, I generally am using this ability in order to just reduce his cooldown for fracture and to regen protection.
Not really, the idea is to pay attention to all of the turn meters.... If you use it to your advantage, you can swap TM with another toon that has almost full TM and Thrawn can get his turn back right after that toon......
That's not "the purpose of the ability"..….. That's just how you are defining the ability... If it was intended to be a turn swap, it would be listed as such....
This game is more than just smashing buttons, you have to pay attention to turn meter, health etc.... If you look at the turn meter bars and know this may happen, simply save the ability and use a different one or take the risk....
The ability literally says "Swap tm with target ally". How's that not supposed to be a tm swap to give the ally Thrawn's turn? And I am perfectly aware of how it works in practice and take that into account. Just because I think it should work as intended bt the text does not mean I just mash buttons to win. CG has already said the randomness of who goes when more than one character reaches 100% tm at the same time is something they want to eventually fix. So your argument that we are ignorant and it's wai isn't a strong one.
Every time you use an ability, every toon on the board gains TM..... That's the way the game works and this ability is no different.... So, yes, you are giving 100% turn meter to another toon but that doesn't mean that no other toon in the battle will get to 100% turn meter when you use it....
The ability does not say anything about turn swapping, only switching turn meter..... They are not the same thing....
Luke and Leia get to keep their turns when they give themselves TM, so the mechanism is already in place to have this work correctly, but cg can't figure out how to profit from fixing it, so they don't care.
If they put that in place it absolutely should fix this. At the point if it was decided that thrawn is going based on his speed, giving the turn he is entitled to based on his speed to another character, that character should get the turn. Otherwise, you defeat the purpose of swapping tm with that character. The real difference comes down to that I see the character tgat has already been selected to take a turn, to have higher priority than those waiting to take a turn at 100%. That priority should transfer with the tm swao.
With all due respect, you keep referring to the intent of his kit as if you wrote it yourself.... How do we know what the intent of his kit was? It's a pretty bold assumption to make... There is no toon in the game that has "turn swap" as you put it, however there are other toons like FOO who give 100 percent turn meter, and they don't work any differently than Thrawn's TM swap, so I don't know why you would expect Thrawn's kit to be different....
Any reasonable reading of that ability (just like CLS') would justifiably conclude that the target should be the next turn to go.
"if it was intended to be a turn swap"...it's a turn METER swap. Same thing. Only a lawyer would distinguish between the two in spirit. I'm sure it was worded as such so that they didn't need to include a new mechanic when Thrawn. All of these turn meter shenanigans didn't start becoming so prevalent until JTR, but became much more pronounced with the EP rework.
"If you look at the turn meter bars"...which many of us do, on almost every match. If anyone can distinguish between 99% TM and 100% TM on a mobile device, then you have a new career waiting for you as an eagle. If there was a visual cue to indicate a unit had 100% TM, then great. But they don't. And even then it's potentially meaningless, since Thrawn's turn could result in proc'ing N debuff expirations on the cleanse, which then invokes opposing TM, which then puts Thrawn's target back in the TM bucket for randomness.
This game is SUPPOSED TO BE about more than just smashing buttons - but right now, it's about crossing your fingers so your intended action actually happens. There is no strategy involved when taking an act may result in any of 9 other outcomes than what you expected.
As for the "lawyer" comment, the ability does EXACTLY what it tells you it will do when you use it..... I'm not sure where you guys read into that description that it guarantees that the toon selected will go first..... This is very basic turn game stuff, again, watch the turn meter and make your decision..... It's not lawyer talk... A very important part of this game is reading kit mechanics and knowing exactly what will happen when you use the ability....
You guys remind me of the guy in the grocery store the other day who expected to get half off a single loaf of bread because they were having a buy one get one free sale....
That actually is not completely accurate. If 2 characters are at 100% tm and character 1 goes, then character 2 goes, no other toons should be gaining TM inbetween. The TM gains occur when 1 characters turn ends and no one else is at 100%. Exemplified by using zFinn lead, you can just keep getting your characters to 100% never letting the enemy team build up any TM.
So If my thrawn goes and swaps TM with another ally that already had 100% TM then no other characters on the board should be gaining TM and going before either of my characters unless it was from dispelling a debuff or something. Not sure if this scenario is happening but I dont think it should be.
When you use Thrawn's turn meter swap ability, you are using a turn.... it's no different than using any other ability in the game.... And every time you use an ability, every toon's turn meter goes up.... Not sure what a passive ability or is Zfinn lead has to do with this.....
This statement is not completely accurate either. There are many actions that can cause someone else to gain TM during your turn. This can then cause them to be at 100% TM at the same time as your second toon.
Even in the case of finn lead resistance, vs a raid boss, or thrawn or GMY lead. Where applying a buff can grant the other team TM.
There are other examples.
The few cases where I would agree that the toon should without a doubt go next is when it's a selected ally gaining the TM, or TM generated directly from the stated ability of the acting toon(as opposed to a reaction too). Those are actions take specifically to be used as a strategy by the player and should override RNG in those cases.
It would also be nice if there was a FIFO rule, so you dont have multiple toons at 100% going repeatedly before a toon just standing at 100%. But that's just me.
zFinn lead has something to do with this because using zFinn lead you will consistently give you team TM from popping the many exposes that he allows. Maybe you haven't done this before but when you do and you get the TM rolling you will notice you will go through each of your characters at 100% tm and the enemy team will get 0 until there is finally someone on your team that does not have 100% tm.
So using an ability aka using a turn does not necessarily mean everyone is going to have their TM go up. I was pointing out that everyones TM goes up when you use a turn AND no one else already has 100% tm already.
And the passive ability has to do with a separate case I was making specifically about swapping TM.
This is exactly the issue. You have no idea what is going to happen next.
"When a debuff on an enemy expires, Empire and Sith allies gain 5% turn meter". Let's just say I've got two toons (Thrawn and target of TM swap) each with three dots, speed down and pain. That's 50% TM gain when Thrawn executes Grand Admiral's Command. So, don't use this skill unless the opposing zEP team has < 50% TM (but wait, is that 49% TM or 51% TM, ah who cares, maybe I'll get lucky...never.gets.to.go).
I'm really not sure how "whose turn is next is random and that's ok" is actually ok in a turn-based strategy game?
Don't get me wrong, I don't like the random who goes next at all.... I'm actually more in favor of FIFO like what Kyno said.... I'm just saying there is a difference between swapping TM and giving another toon your turn.....
Folks seem to be assuming that CG's intentions were to have that toon go next. What if their intentions were simply to give TM to a toon that had low TM?....
That's a fair point. We don't know, and it's pointless to discuss beyond that. But that doesn't mean I won't try!!!
I would think if that was their intent, then that's what they would have done, sort of like Rex and R2. Swapping TM, when you know factually that one toon already has 100% TM (by virtue of them taking their turn), to me strongly implies that the target of said swap will be the next toon to go. I understand your argument. It's solid. Based on the letter of the kit, that's what happens. Agreed.
But, can we discuss the correctness of it? Does it make sense that the target of my TM swap actually never gets a chance to go again (it's happened, more than a few times). Is there strategy involved in it? Does the current implementation severely devalue the ability (like CLS' Call to Action)?
There weren't nearly as many passive TM gains when Thrawn was introduced last year. Feels like this one got away from them. I can't really imagine that this was the type of game play they wanted (unpredictable with an option to feel inherently unfair).
CG releases kit that counters kit all the time.... It's what keeps people buying the latest and greatest.....
For the record, I don't disagree that this may have been what was intended......