Yoda's Aging Process Oversight?
At the end of ROTS, Yoda is depicted as an agile warrior, and in TESB he is depicted as elderly, having to rely on a cane to walk.
Yoda claims that he is 900 years old during the events of the original trilogy.
Considering his lifespan is so long, I don't understand how 20-30 years could make such a big difference.
Is there an explanation for this or is it an oversight?
Yoda claims that he is 900 years old during the events of the original trilogy.
Considering his lifespan is so long, I don't understand how 20-30 years could make such a big difference.
Is there an explanation for this or is it an oversight?
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He used a cane and a hover chair to get around in the prequels. Not exactly a continuation issue. Obi Wan aged quickly too, which would be more questionable than Yoda, after all Yoda was 870 in PM. Maybe being a fugitive had a hand in aging the two more rapidly.
I totally agree with this point.
He also could have had some illness during his time on Dagobah - who knows.
Yes he walked around with a cane in the OT and PT, but he also explains that energy flows from the force, so the force gave him his agility in his old age, which is why Dooku is still a master at lightsaber dueling.
But age did catch up with Yoda in the end as you quite rightly say, I mean I've seen men in their 80s doing bare foot waterskiing, and within a year or 2 could decline and pass on - what's the difference?
At the end of the day this is a thread talking about a fictional alien race - a race that no one even knows the name of, so how can anyone therefore even argue about their physiology or how they should or should not age.
Better than the ST, lol
Well how old exactly was Kenobi in ROTS compared to ANH?
I don't think it was that bad.
The light side of the Force can make a sufficiently powerful user literally immortal. The philosophy and perspective needed to be that powerful in the light side means it's seldom done. But if Yoda withered and died of old age, it's because he chose to.
What absolute twoddle.
Immortality is a darkside power - Look at Sidious' story of Darth Plagueis the Wise to Anakin - he sought immortality too.
Sidious: (Immortality is unnatural) - the Dark Side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
Yoda - death is natural part of life. Rejoice for those who transform into the force, mourn them do not, miss them do not. A jedi is to train themselves to let go of everything they fear to lose.
So if anything death and the natural order of life or the force is the lightside way of things.
Stopping death and craving the power to do so is nothing more than selfishness and is the way of the darkside.
It's one of the great ironies of the Force. The light side nurtures and heals. It has the ability to even heal the rigors of aging, but to have that power, you must be someone who doesn't want that power, while those drawn to the dark side desperately want that immortality, but that nurturing and healing are anathema to the dark side.
Dark side users have come up with a bunch of ways to cheat death. Body snatching, essence draining, driving their body through sheer willpower and hatred. Plagueis' method was the most direct, essentially directly compelling the midichlorians to regenerate cells. But true immortality, healing the effects of old age, is a specifically light side power, and one which most who could use it choose not to.
That said, in Legends, most Jedi used the Force to prolong their lives, just not indefinitely. Lot of 150-200 year old humans.
No, it is a darkside power for the reasons I have already said. Immortality for the light/jedi - is becoming one with the force.
We don't know if Plagueis succeeded in finding true immortality - Abrams was setting up Snoke as Plagueis (plenty of facts allude to this, including Ridley almost blurting it out in a press conference). This would have proved the point, but **** baby-man Johnson ruined it - perhaps we may see this in E9 - if Snoke is somehow not dead. In which case he would have succeded.
Un-death or the ability to live forever is not natural - the lightside is all about being natural.
Furthermore, if you are speaking in Legends, I'd point you to Darth Krayt, who was using abilities of the darkside powers and magics to stay alive - forever (potentially). Also the Sith Emperor did the same thing in SWTOR.
Jedi can heal wounds, but when someone is mortally wounded and healed (stopped their death) - that is the darkside, because that person should have died and become one with the force, but their death was stolen from the natural order of things.
As an example: Cade Skywalker's ability to stop others from dying was a darkside power that would consume him in the darkside and it would be more and more difficult for him to bounce back from.
This is why the line in E2 is so impactful, when Anakin claims he will become so powerful he will even find a way to stop others from dying - it is a selfish "want" or power to have and it defies the natural balance in the force, and also goes against the Jedi code re: attachments forbidden. You would have to be attached to others or your own self - where a Jedi's life is sacrifice and no need to repeat what yoda said about others dying, which I have posted above.
So please, stop arguing with me, you are embarrassing yourself.
Fan service?
Do enlighten me @DatBoi by what you mean by that statement.
If a Jedi has been bestowed, or learned the power, to heal back from mortal wounds, isn't that the Force's will as well? how is that any different from using medicine or technology to cure previously incurable disease / injuries?
I think this is where nuance comes into play. It's one thing to heal someone who has an injury to their aorta and quite a different one to bring someone back after being decapitated. So maybe there's two versions of immortality that Yae alluded to. 1, having the ability to prolong life 2. having the ability to restore life.
Lastly, why are you being so condescending in your replies?
People wanted to see Yoda flipping around and doing a bunch of shallow nonsense even though it directly contridicts his character in Empire. It’s part of the running theme in the prequels where the “quality” of a character is determined by how “strong” they are (Maul, Dooku, Yoda, Windu, Sidious, etc).
He was not agile in the prequels, he used a cane or even some kind of floating chair. What we see while he fights is the force assisting his movement. It is like force jumps and force runs done by other jedi, the difference is that most jedi can hold that movements only for seconds, while Yoda masters the force in a way that he can do it during the entire fight.
Watch this fight minute 2:25, he enters the room using a cane to walk then he "turns on" the force and his movements change a lot.
Disagreeing with you is not the same as being wrong. Let alone embarrassingly wrong.
"Natural" is a somewhat meaningless word. However, the Force simply is. It exists as part of the universe. Neither the light side nor the dark side have more right to exist, or are more natural. The light and dark sides are more analogous to order and chaos or selflessness and selfishness.
If you want to go real deep lore, the Force itself is unnatural, an external parasite or symbiote introduced to the galaxy far far away by the architects to help promote the development of life.
Also, there are many things that were almost canon, and almost not. Originally, the core three- Luke, Han, and Leia- were all going to end up Jedi by the end. Luke, Leia, and Vader weren't going to be a family. The battle of Endor was gonna be fought alongside wookiees instead of ewoks. When Padme went to Mustafar, it was because she knew Anakin was lost; she had a knife, was going to kill Anakin, but couldn't bring herself to deal a mortal blow, hence the Force choke, and the, "You turned her against me," line which comes out of nowhere in the final cut, and it was the reason Kenobi could beat Skywalker, a much better and more powerful duelist. Plans change. Whether or not you agree with it, Snoke being Plagueis would have undermined Anakin's arc and purpose as the one to end the Sith. It is a valid story choice to say Snoke is not Plagueis.
You bring up Vitiate. He's another example of what I was talking about. Vitiate was not healed or sustained by the dark side of the Force, because the dark side does not give life. Vitiate performed an elaborate ritual to absorb the life force of an entire planet. Which falls under the aforementioned header of essence stealing. It's another workaround. The Sith have a lot of those workarounds because the dark side sucks at healing, because it isn't good at the whole immortality thing.
On the light side, Jedi Master Fay and Jedi Master Shayato explicitly used the Force to live for centuries. In Shayato's case, he was explicitly human, though Fay was some unspecified near human. Both Anakins have used the Force to literally bring back the dead without reliance on the dark side. And the Jedi Order literally had an entire organization of Jedi washouts whose job was to go around the galaxy and save lives using Force healing. Healing a mortal wound or fatal disease is no more "unnatural" than a doctor saving someone's life.
You bring up Episode 2. Good scene. Important scene. You're also ignoring something. Anakin was denied status as a Jedi master. He didn't turn to Palpatine because the light and the Jedi didn't have the answer. He turned to him because he was denied the answer. As a non-master, he was denied access to the Jedi's most powerful secrets, and Mace personally stood in the way of Anakin's attempts to learn new, more powerful Force techniques multiple times. The reason Anakin practices Djem So is because Mace refused to teach him Vapaad.
My "realistic" theory is that CGI simply wasn't good enough at the time of episode 1 to capture all the wrinkles and hair that ESB yoda had, and as such he looked younger. Ironically they used a puppet in TLJ when they probably could have convincingly done an excellent CGI yoda with 2017 tech, but were likely scared off by Ep1 yoda.
Yoda was a puppet in Phantom (a terrible one). He was later replaced with a CG model.
It’s ironic that with all the money in the world, Lucas couldn’t make a better puppet than the one he had 20 years earlier.
An example of Lucas’ directorial expertise.
I must have been blocking that monstrosity out of my memory. Ep1 yoda looks like something out of the Dark Crystal.
Aha - no we are getting somewhere!
So the ability for a jedi to use this power would be more of a grey area. This topic has now shifted that all dark is not entirely "bad". Perhaps the balance of light v. dark is an issue for the force, which is why it needs to continuously re-balance itself with the likes of Anakin or Rey to balance Kylo.
If force users were just that...users of the force rather than categorized as Jedi/Sith or Light/Dark then perhaps the galaxy would always be in balance - the use of both light and dark - that is where true power is in the force.
I thought this is where TLJ was going from the trailers, but the actual movie came out and ruined it, lol
As for medicines/doctors - that again is skills with tools/technology available. I think calling upon the force to alter one's fate is the issue.
Sorry I don't mean to be condescending. Sometimes you can debate with brick walls on here and it gets frustrating. So, I apologize for that
I did not bring up non-cannon...you did, so all of that you have mentioned is disgarded by canon and not worth referencing.
All we know is that Yoda said death is a natural part of life, where the sith want to live forever and stop others from dying (Plagueis, Sidious and Anakin) - that is all canon and that is where this debate should end.
Healing someone is ok, but stopping their death is another. Doctors use skills and medicine, but calling upon the fiorce to alter one's fate is the issue between dark and light.
Anakin was not denied the answer - the lightside could not give him what he wants and this was confirmed by Yoda and Obi Wan who told Anakin that he has been taught everything he knew - So that is why he "needed" sidious when Mace was going to kill him. He needed to learn the dark side becayuse the dark side held the power to stop death.
It didn't contradict anything. He simply called upon the force to guide his movements and give him energy and agility in a fight - old man Dooku did the same thing and so does Palpatine in his office.
Yoda may have still been able to do this in Empire, but he had no one to fight And he was at the end of his life anyway. Just because a being may live for 900 years or whatever, does not mean they can rapidly deteriorate within the last 30 years of their life either.