Tw mismatch!

Alpo181

Hey,

The tw matchmaking system is not working correctly. We are currently facing opponent from compelitely difrent prize pool.This is not fun at all and they actually contacted us how is this even possible that they are facing our guild since pretty much everyone knows that we are going to be destroyed and this match shouldnt be even possible.

Their guild GP is around ~150million( vA DIOSPHERE ) and ours is a bit under 120million. ( Nordic Kingdom )
Well their active guild GP in this TW is 129,436,600 and ours is 112,786,606. We don't even have chance for the same rewards.
We have screenshots from both sides.

This is not going to be fun for any of the participants...

I posted this problem to techinal issues too but here its more visible so other players will notice that the tw mismatching problem is real.

Kind regards, Nordic kingdom and vA DIOSPHERE

Kyno

The matching has nothing to do with the prize bracket.

Alpo181

Well if we put that aside it still doesnt explain how we end up agaist them. Our top toons/squads aren't even close to their toons/squads. 16,5million GP diffrence at this level is HUGE.

I look into the matchmaking explanation:

As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar.

And im pretty sure that we are not even close to similiar with our opponent.

NoK_S5C2H

There is no way that these guilds are comparable. Va diosphere is in the top three in global raidpoints ranking. While NK is a strong endgame guild, it still is not even near the level of them. Anyone can see that by looking the gg accounts.

https://swgoh.gg/g/4446/va-diosphere/
https://swgoh.gg/g/3687/nordic-kingdom/

Knightbrother85

We're facing a GP differential of 18 million and we only have 37 million to start with (55m -37m)... talk about a mismatch!
Above 100 mln GP that difference is less crucial, but down here in the younger guilds, it's impossible.

Syrup_Chugger3

Kyno wrote: »

The matching has nothing to do with the prize bracket.

Which is lame. If a guild is an under dog, at the point which the higher guild even in a higher bracket; say Guild A is in the bracket where they get 3 zetas for winning and 2 zetas for losing. Guild B only can get 2 zetas for winning and 1 losing. If guild B can rally put in the work to beat a guild with higher GP why shouldn't they get the same rewards?

cdhek

A guild that is 10 million gp higher can place an extra 100 squads of 100k, essentially filling 20 standard spots in 5 zones, that the guild with 10 million less can’t do.
Any way you cut it, that’s a near insurmountable obstacle.
I’m not sure there is a solution.

Kyno

Syrup_Chugger3 wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

The matching has nothing to do with the prize bracket.

Which is lame. If a guild is an under dog, at the point which the higher guild even in a higher bracket; say Guild A is in the bracket where they get 3 zetas for winning and 2 zetas for losing. Guild B only can get 2 zetas for winning and 1 losing. If guild B can rally put in the work to beat a guild with higher GP why shouldn't they get the same rewards?

The prize is based on what you as a guild have built up to. That's not too outrageous of an idea. Yes there are better ways to do it

Alpo181

After 3hours 30min tw situation looks like this:

As a good gesture they haven't destroyed our rear lines since there is only smaller units and our very best defence was taken out like nothing. We are chatting with our opponent in discord.

Can someone actually say that this wasn't a mismatch?? And that matchmaking system found 2 guilds that has similar rosters and their best squads are close to each other?
Tw is our guilds favorite part of the game and this time it was our worst experience so far. While im writing this im watching our last strong ships falling and we are still struggling against their second line.
This is affecting our guild morale badly which will reflect to the other game modes.

Frodobongins

I think there's starting point... Take more than 1 bloody minute to match! Other games with this type of clan vs clan war can take up to 30m-1hr...i can report that our guild around 90m gp is regularly matched as an underdog by minimum 10m but usually lower to 20+1

Alpo181

The thing is that we can't win this even we would somehow get all territories. They went almost every matchup with 1 = 1 fights. We have more 2/3 battles in first row than they have in total...

Frodobongins

I meant to resolve this in the first place. Your lucky if you haven't had too many mismatches. We had a streak of like 5 of the last 6 being almost 2 9 0 Mil above us and crushing us

Frodobongins

Sorry typo autocorrect 20mil

Alpo181

Frodobongins we have been also facing guilds way higher GP than us and we usually beat them. But it doesn't mean their active GP is higher at the time. Small diffrences doesn't really matter because the guilds are close to eachother. Guild GP 115million and another 125million for example then the average player G12 squads are around the samish and the bigger one has only small advantage. But this one we are facing now its compelitely difrent. Their guild GP is 33million higher than ours and at this level the difrence doesn't come from 7* toons. It comes from G11-G12 gear and the difrence is way TOO BIG.

But still the Guild GP doesn't tell everything but this time their active GP is 16,5million more than ours and only way to confirm active GP difference is to contact other guild. And its like cdhek pointed out that with 10 million difference they can place 100 squads of 100k to fill 5 zones compelitely and they have 16,5million extra to do so. vA DIOSPHERE is so strong guild that they can fill those slots with 100k teams.

Frodobongins

That blurb higher in the thread, it sounds like very reasonable, we'll thought out matchmaking algorithm in theory. But it clearly does not work. So either the algorithm is bad, the factors that they choose, like what they Think are the best squads and toons aren't good measures or metrics, or the whole gp system is broken or in accurate as an actual measure of power

Frodobongins

Alpo181 wrote: »

Frodobongins we have been also facing guilds way higher GP than us and we usually beat them. But it doesn't mean their active GP is higher at the time. Small diffrences doesn't really matter because the guilds are close to eachother. Guild GP 115million and another 125million for example then the average player G12 squads are around the samish and the bigger one has only small advantage. But this one we are facing now its compelitely difrent. Their guild GP is 33million higher than ours and at this level the difrence doesn't come from 7* toons. It comes from G11-G12 gear and the difrence is way TOO BIG.

But still the Guild GP doesn't tell everything but this time their active GP is 16,5million more than ours and only way to confirm active GP difference is to contact other guild. And its like cdhek pointed out that with 10 million difference they can place 100 squads of 100k to fill 5 zones compelitely and they have 16,5million extra to do so. vA DIOSPHERE is so strong guild that they can fill those slots with 100k teams.

Ya, without a debate, may be one of the worst mismatches I have seen in tw. I know it's active gp, not total. But when you compare the power of their squads and the amount of them+factor in how many attack attempts made, it paints that picture. We aren't a bad guild by any means, and we strategize well, but yet, our mismatches are usually a loss by 3k, because power for power, we can't match the quantity of quality squads And yet, if the system works, yes, you could get 2 close active gps, and have one team be stronger, but this is the norm, not the occasion.

NoK_S5C2H

Yeah, there have been numerous threads but this time we have clear evidence since both sides have been communicating about it and providing screenshots to each other. There is no way that these rosters are even close to each other. Just the difference in gp can cover two thirds of their whole defence. The opposing guild is one of the top three raid guilds in the world as we are just a normal endgame guild. The difference is huge.

Alpo181

Nordic kingdom has been out there for a long time now and we haven't complained not even once before this. We have faced bigger opponents many times before but not anything like this. The difference is just too big and both sides think that way and we have proofs. vA DIOSPHERE said that they can post screenshots of their defence after TW. So we can actually see how humongous the difference really is and we might learn something of it and in the far away future we could mayby even use it. But there is a long way before we can even imagine having that kinda defence line.

I don't know how you think about TW and its importance but for me its a comparison point how my units do and how strong our guild is. With this kinda opponent we can't compare anything and same for them they just walked over us. Before i make any in-game purchase i think how it improves my units in TW. Without Territory wars i think i would not have spend any money on this game. Im pretty sure im not the only who has used money in this game because they want to better in Territory wars.

I have to admit that im pretty annoyed that the only response we are getting from devs/moderators is "The matching has nothing to do with the prize bracket " and i only got a feeling that he wanted to shut down the conversation with that answer...

I think it's not too much to ask a good response to this post since it has gotten this much attention.

Kind regards, Nordic kingdoms officers.

Syrup_Chugger3

Kyno wrote: »

Syrup_Chugger3 wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

The matching has nothing to do with the prize bracket.

Which is lame. If a guild is an under dog, at the point which the higher guild even in a higher bracket; say Guild A is in the bracket where they get 3 zetas for winning and 2 zetas for losing. Guild B only can get 2 zetas for winning and 1 losing. If guild B can rally put in the work to beat a guild with higher GP why shouldn't they get the same rewards?

The prize is based on what you as a guild have built up to. That's not too outrageous of an idea. Yes there are better ways to do it

It still seems unfair and doesn't make send to place 2 guilds of different prize brackets together (I thought that was the point of the different tiers?), when one guild can lose and still get (although minimally) better rewards than a guild that say has to coordinate like seal team 6, and claw through sticks and barbed wire to win.
Guilds shouldn't face another guild in a lower or higher prize bracket period in my opinion. Or if the underdog wins should get the higher brackets prizes.

Alpo181

A good temporary solution could be something like this: the prize bracket for both guilds would be determined by the bigger guilds active GP.

Then it won't feel so unfair for smaller guilds and it would be a bit more rewarding if they somehow can win the stronger guild!

mrjazz

you think 30 mil difference is bad, try 90 million

HarryTDF

They need to make it so active gp determines the prize bracket and total guild gp determines opponents. If your members don’t participate that’s on the guild. We can fix that by kicking and replacing. We can’t fix the terrible match making system but then neither can they lolol

BubbaFett

Harryparatesties wrote: »

They need to make it so active gp determines the prize bracket and total guild gp determines opponents. If your members don’t participate that’s on the guild. We can fix that by kicking and replacing. We can’t fix the terrible match making system but then neither can they lolol

Exactly.... None of this algorithm mumbo jumbo..... Simply match up two guilds of similar to, and the winner is the guild with the most participation, knowledge, strategy and better built teams....

Ravenclaws

Kyno wrote: »

Syrup_Chugger3 wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

The matching has nothing to do with the prize bracket.

Which is lame. If a guild is an under dog, at the point which the higher guild even in a higher bracket; say Guild A is in the bracket where they get 3 zetas for winning and 2 zetas for losing. Guild B only can get 2 zetas for winning and 1 losing. If guild B can rally put in the work to beat a guild with higher GP why shouldn't they get the same rewards?

The prize is based on what you as a guild have built up to. That's not too outrageous of an idea. Yes there are better ways to do it

Not trying to attack anyone here, but when 2 forces are in direct opposition, the one that has the disadvantage should receive the greater reward if they overcome the situation. At the very least the prize pool should be the same.

To my knowledge I can't think of a situation that is so backwards.

Armyofone

We are an 95M GP guild and out last 14 TWs our opponents have had 12/14 times our opponents GP has been 10M higher(9 of them by 15+, including 3 20m+ and most recently almost 30M more.) Yes most recently based on # of characters per level we have had a 2 to3 person advantage. But they way GP works 2 guys with a million GP are no match for 1 person with 2M gp.

DarkstarSunrise

We are 140M gp and 8/10 of our TWs are against teams that are 150M gp +. Why is it that the system cannot match guilds within 1% of gp? Or, why are we ALWAYS the underdog? We never get matched with someone 10M lower.

FerLandrossa

Congrats CG, your algorithm just threw us our most uneven matchup to date.

We didn't think you'd be able to beat our numerous prior 20 mil deficit matchups, but an 89mil Guild GP vs 117mil GP is really really special.

We have 80mil active from 45. We can set only 19 defence per territory, so either 38 or 39 participants their end. Even if they were missing 11 of their strongest players, their GP will still gulf us.

It's not even that this is unfair. It's pointless.

https://swgoh.gg/g/19600/templar/
https://swgoh.gg/g/2392/galactic-giants/

Sonido

we have 95kk vs 131kk with 21 defence places per territory
very fair, not worth even wasting time on setting defence

XKurareX

TW matchmaking does not work at all.

20% additional GM = double amount of g12 at minimum plus most likely double zetas (thats pointless battle)

This matchmaking makes the opposite of what TW should be - a fight. It makes the whole **** tw to a random farce. We won 15/16 against opponents being mostly 10%-15% higher than us. But to fight against some elite guilds who drop before tw some members just to swipe through your plate and having still 30%+ more gm while doing so is a blatant joke. I cannot understand how 160m guilds can fight vs 110m guilds, with 7s trayas - what for matchmaking is that?

TW reward should ALWAYS be based on the matched guild. At least your instant loose is than compensated. Makes anyways no sense to be based on your guild gm when the other got 30% more and even when they loose they get MORE than you? Anyone noticed this too yet?

If you win TW against way higher gm guild they get more as looser than you as winner? How schizophren is that please?

Prove:
80 event = 1 piece of g12
110m guild gets as winner 2 zetas + 1400 event + minimum 2*5 pieces g12
140m guild gets as looser 2 zetas + 1300 event + minimum 2*6 pieces g12 more...
160m guild gets as looser 2 zetas + 1350 event + minimum 2*7 pieces g12 much more...
Sense? Nope!

Bad reward system if you have such terrible matchmaking. I guess you copy pasted this to sith raid - oh wait yes you did.

This game could be great, but its in many places just bad thought and designed. The graphics i like, star wars i like, tb is fine...but heck sith raid is bad playable and unfun, tw matchmaking is unfun, fleet is unfun and the non stop flood of 300dollar chars is unfun too - get more creative. And make sense in your doings and reward systems. And I am certainly not a ftp player.

Rag_Scrag

I could cite the disparity in GP for our current match but that pales into insignificance when I say they have a dozen Traya, including one G12, while we have yet to attempt one hSTR
With 24 squads per territory, they won’t have 50 players but they can’t be missing many of those Traya. Can anyone imagine this comes close to “a fair contest”?

PS we are 123M with 122M in TW,
they are 134M with Traya: 12 x G11, 1 x G12