Changes to Asajj/Acolyte Strategy in STR MEGA THREAD

Replies

  • Chewy88 wrote: »
    AdlerCl wrote: »
    The optics around this whole change and announcement were just bad. As a player, it’s hard not to perceive this as trying to roll out a longed planned NS nerf rather than addressing a newly discovered infinite loop.

    First, when it was announced Traya was nowhere mentioned (“We are aware of a strategy with Asajj and Nightsister Acolyte that allows players to take an infinite number of turns in the Sith Triumvirate Raid.“)

    Second, there was this random double drop weekend announced. Can’t remember the last time double drops appeared out of the blue without any accompanying event or celebration.

    Third, the more detailed announcement and fix landed on a Friday afternoon, classic PR tactic for addressing bad news (https://www.kornferry.com/institute/bad-news-delivery).

    Fourth, NS Zombie somehow made it into the discussion even though NSZ wasn’t even part of the offending team.

    Fifth, Nightsisters have posting high scores for months now, why is it suddenly an issue and why are we just now hearing about it?

    Sixth, this infinite loop team at issue is probably only affecting 1/10,000 of the player base. Why did this get addressed so fast when there are so many other outstanding issues with HSR?

    Seventh, the announcement was already made to refund Daka’s zeta, makes me question how seriously the bonds of weakness cap is going to be looked at.

    Eighth, this nerf is coming at a time when whales and whale guilds are all just starting to get 7* star Trayas. So they got the benefit of NS teams while the rest of the player base won’t anymore?

    This is probably the largest in a long line of morale hits surrounding the Sith Raid. Some of which seem to make no sense at all as a player. Why the minor nerf to expose? It didn’t really seem to have any noticeable effect.

    The only way I can make sense of these decisions in my head is that there must be some kind of (non-financial) metrics that that must be met at all costs. It’s like average damage per team per phase is 5% above the target, need to nerf expose. Whoa, standard deviation of average percent damage per team per player for P4 is 60% when it should be 5%, unacceptable!

    It seems like CG is expecting too much out of STR and trying to force it to meet expectations, expectations which they haven’t shared with the playerbase, that are impossible to meet. The result is a disconnect where it feels like HSR was designed to meet the needs of CG instead of designing something that would be fun for the players.

    This especially stings with the NS nerf. I know the “feeling of pride and accomplishment” has become a joke, but for many players NS is the first team where they actually felt that way. Moreover, they are a really fun team to play, especially in HSR. It was also fun to every now and then get a good RNG run and place higher than I normally would.

    My advice to CG would be write to write HSR off as a loss. The toon base is too diverse at this point to nudge player behavior through an end game raid. Figure out different game modes that will reward players with a deep bench of higher geared characters or change the compsition of guilds.

    Don’t nerf Nightsisters. It won’t fix the problem and just add to the list of nerfs designed to fix the symptoms instead of fixing the problem.








    This is a very well thought out post and deserves to be looked at. To that end I hereby tag @CG_TopHat and will leave it at that so as to not break the rule of mass tagging. Carrie and Crumb should also look at this.
    @CG_Carrie I hope you read this. And to the rest of the community so we don’t break the rules. Repost it over and over with each of cgs tags in it.

  • KenLi
    55 posts Member
    Yep. Nice catch @JediMindTricks
  • KenLi
    55 posts Member
    Maybe they aren't communicating with each other on what is or what isn't a strategy of gameplay?
  • Funny how the devs change things around.

    A few months ago this person complained about a low geared zombie and kozispoon said it wasn’t a bug and it was strategy....all of a sudden it’s not working like it should cause NS apparently do too much damage in P4.

    Here’s the post with kozispoons response:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/153504/fix-the-nightsister-zombie-gear-exploit#latest

    @CG_Carrie i would love an explanation to this
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    Funny how the devs change things around.

    A few months ago this person complained about a low geared zombie and kozispoon said it wasn’t a bug and it was strategy....all of a sudden it’s not working like it should cause NS apparently do too much damage in P4.

    Here’s the post with kozispoons response:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/153504/fix-the-nightsister-zombie-gear-exploit#latest

    Sadly, that is also one of the few people with two capital letters in front of their name that I believed cared what the players thought. And the art people.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • icanectc wrote: »
    I don't believe cg is soliciting advice from its players base on how to handle the problem. But hey your actions are commendable. You tried!

    I just would like for them to see this solution and answer why they wouldnt do something like this. I am looking for some transparency here. If they want to nerf nightsisters, then they should say that. Most people don't enjoy being lied to and all signs are pointing to them lying to us again (see the above post with a long quote).
    This would absolutely destroy acolyte’s value. The whole team hinges on her taking multiple turns in a row as long as she crits. This would probably be worse for ns than the healing cap at 20 stacks.

    Acolyte's value in hstr? So, the "optimal" NS team usually doesnt include her, however, I used to use her myself before I had the rest of the team built. Typically what would happen is that Acolyte would get into her little loops and if she stayed in that loop for too long, then the rest of your sisters would be at red health when you exit and DN would immediately go.

    I admit, this would devalue her for this raid to a degree. It would not be so drastic as to make her useless, but she would not be able to loop anymore.


    Another point about these changes. It hurts people with a strong zombie even more than people with paper zombies. Building up huge stacks used to be the primary method of forcing your zombie to die. It is now no longer possible to stack that high so it is much more difficult to do good damage with a strong zombie.

  • we are working hard on the heroic sith raid, therefore I invested much in the nightsisters although I hated them.
    I would have never invested in them in the first place, Asajj being slow as hell. now she is g12 and has 2 zetas because I was forced to, and now this........
  • What you are doing now is completely illegal. You cant sell a product and then change its mechanic that turns it to worthless. We spent real money here. All players must be given an option to remove zeta and GEARS from nightsisters.
  • ddlooping2
    1018 posts Member
    From CG_TopHat (July 28):
    How will Nightsister Zombie still be viable after the changes coming in the future?

    We are still figuring out what the changes to Zombie look like, but we've got some really solid leads.
    Our goal is to make Zombie still fit her roll as the same constantly dying awesome taunting tank she's always been. We're also looking at how we bring some of the juice of her constantly dying under the Paper Zombie paradigm and bring that into the powered up Zombie.
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/176914/additional-changes-to-bonds-of-weakness-and-nightsister-zombie

    "...constantly dying awesome taunting tank she's always been..." : that sounds good.
    "...some of the juice..." : why not all of the juice?
  • sm0rzk33pf0w.jpg
    Really?!

    Can only be the same logic as people liking a post on my works facebook page that featured a story with a picture of me on it.

    One of them was my mum.
  • Narseph
    141 posts Member
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Devs, please explain to us all why you notice sith raid feedback, yet do nothing, nerf perfectly good toons we all work hard for that are very useful outside of the raid etc..... We already hate your sith raid, it's a failure..... 99% of the player base is telling you they hate it..... The other 1% are the ones that actually have these one off teams.....

    Also whike you are at it.... Please explain why one of your own is using a "paper zombie"..... If it wasn't intended, then why is he using it rather than helping do something about it?

    r2d072415rng.png

    C'mon, you're doing it wrong.
    @CG_RyDiggs would you care to explain, if the paper zombie mechanic is wai ?
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Devs, please explain to us all why you notice sith raid feedback, yet do nothing, nerf perfectly good toons we all work hard for that are very useful outside of the raid etc..... We already hate your sith raid, it's a failure..... 99% of the player base is telling you they hate it..... The other 1% are the ones that actually have these one off teams.....

    Also while you are at it.... Please explain why one of your own is using a "paper zombie"..... If it wasn't intended, then why is he using it rather than helping do something about it?

    r2d072415rng.png

    This is not proof of someone exploiting a known bug/exploit. It was a limited time strategy, that's all.

    The reality is this is being taken away once F2P have had a chance to build it up which is totally fair because all F2P invested was time. This is done to reward the people who spent to be exclusive, they get to benefit then when others catch up everything is nerfed. This loop is only possible with TRAYA, yet she's not being touched.

    All the P2W guys with maxed NS already have Traya so its not that big of a deal if they nerf NS into the ground P2W will still pass HSTR.
  • Kbrown
    12 posts Member
    Now you are going to need them. I seriously need to decide to stop playing this game. The devs don't seem to understand the players at all. I am terribly upset I spent so much time and effort just for you to pull the rug out from under me again. Also since it now costs less to enhance mods-Do all of us playing from the beginning of the game get our millions back that WE spent on our Mods. Tired if you making it easy for newbies while screwing the old timers.
  • Kbrown
    12 posts Member
    Nerf not need. stupid autocorrect.
  • @CG, please dont touch my account by removing the daka zeta i put on. I am not authorizing you to do this.

    I can only imagine how many zetas you will accidentally remove then take weeks to put back. This goes against your own policy about being about to adjust accounts (which i have heard countless times).

    For once, come up with a simpler solution, since almost nothing you guys do the first time EVER works right.

  • Anavel_Gato
    371 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    edit, answered in another thread.

    if you find new bugs though post on EA help ASAP!
    Post edited by Anavel_Gato on
  • Fixing the infinite loop is fine.

    Messing with the NS is NOT. Zombie wasn't even part of the infinite loop, why even? You nerf ANY of them and I want them all back at G1 - shoot back all gear and mats on the entire team, I can use redistributing all 5 Zeta's, thank you...

    I'm so fed up with this game, and the devs aren't even being close to reasonable.

    Hey, great job on your hot fix though...
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • Firebrigade
    668 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    It seems like any infinite looping could be solved if they just made the health steal apply on ability use, like every other instance, instead of a fresh application on every hit. That wouldn’t significantly alter the benefit of Isolate while removing the potential for abuse, as it would wear off.

    I’m sure this will probably get merged, but I’m hoping to see a discussion of the mechanics that doesn’t get dragged into the firestorm over there...
    Post edited by Firebrigade on
  • Why nerf their perfect p2p reward? When they cab screw over a whole team everyone has been working?
  • Or just not health steal, just give them a different buff, so simple.
  • Cridiron
    158 posts Member
    AdlerCl wrote: »
    The optics around this whole change and announcement were just bad. As a player, it’s hard not to perceive this as trying to roll out a longed planned NS nerf rather than addressing a newly discovered infinite loop.

    First, when it was announced Traya was nowhere mentioned (“We are aware of a strategy with Asajj and Nightsister Acolyte that allows players to take an infinite number of turns in the Sith Triumvirate Raid.“)

    Second, there was this random double drop weekend announced. Can’t remember the last time double drops appeared out of the blue without any accompanying event or celebration.

    Third, the more detailed announcement and fix landed on a Friday afternoon, classic PR tactic for addressing bad news (https://www.kornferry.com/institute/bad-news-delivery).

    Fourth, NS Zombie somehow made it into the discussion even though NSZ wasn’t even part of the offending team.

    Fifth, Nightsisters have posting high scores for months now, why is it suddenly an issue and why are we just now hearing about it?

    Sixth, this infinite loop team at issue is probably only affecting 1/10,000 of the player base. Why did this get addressed so fast when there are so many other outstanding issues with HSR?

    Seventh, the announcement was already made to refund Daka’s zeta, makes me question how seriously the bonds of weakness cap is going to be looked at.

    Eighth, this nerf is coming at a time when whales and whale guilds are all just starting to get 7* star Trayas. So they got the benefit of NS teams while the rest of the player base won’t anymore?

    This is probably the largest in a long line of morale hits surrounding the Sith Raid. Some of which seem to make no sense at all as a player. Why the minor nerf to expose? It didn’t really seem to have any noticeable effect.

    The only way I can make sense of these decisions in my head is that there must be some kind of (non-financial) metrics that that must be met at all costs. It’s like average damage per team per phase is 5% above the target, need to nerf expose. Whoa, standard deviation of average percent damage per team per player for P4 is 60% when it should be 5%, unacceptable!

    It seems like CG is expecting too much out of STR and trying to force it to meet expectations, expectations which they haven’t shared with the playerbase, that are impossible to meet. The result is a disconnect where it feels like HSR was designed to meet the needs of CG instead of designing something that would be fun for the players.

    This especially stings with the NS nerf. I know the “feeling of pride and accomplishment” has become a joke, but for many players NS is the first team where they actually felt that way. Moreover, they are a really fun team to play, especially in HSR. It was also fun to every now and then get a good RNG run and place higher than I normally would.

    My advice to CG would be write to write HSR off as a loss. The toon base is too diverse at this point to nudge player behavior through an end game raid. Figure out different game modes that will reward players with a deep bench of higher geared characters or change the compsition of guilds.

    Don’t nerf Nightsisters. It won’t fix the problem and just add to the list of nerfs designed to fix the symptoms instead of fixing the problem.








    This is a very well thought out post and deserves to be looked at. To that end I hereby tag @CG_TopHat and will leave it at that so as to not break the rule of mass tagging. Carrie and Crumb should also look at this.

    @CG_Carrie I want sure it was possible to just keep messing up. I always think "well, it cant get much worse than this blunder" but somehow your teams continues, against all odds, to find ways to anger and abuse your player base.
This discussion has been closed.