Wow, that was quicker than I honestly expected. And kudos for admitting to making a mistake in rushing this out.
@CG_TopHat If I may, a suggestion? I think the best answer to the potential infinite I've seen proposed these past couple of days is to change Acolyte's basic. What enables the combo, fundamentally, is that she shoots twice on her basic when in stealth (and gains stealth from that basic so she's never not in stealth). Without the double-shot, she can't get the infinite turns, since Asajj's lead will only give 50% turn meter at a time. So to preserve the intent but remove this interaction, perhaps she fires once but deals double damage when stealthed, or fires once but gets two hits from that one shot (ala Talzin hitting a target with Plague on it). That ought to eliminate the potential infinite once and for all without negatively impacting anything else, I think.
Why is it that even when the devs make a sincere post in a manner in which we always want them to, that still 1/3 of the people here still knock them?
I am with the other 2/3 in commending you on a genuine post and fix. This doesnt happen much and its very refrefreshing. Thank you tophat
Because 1/3 of us are not going to walk past a dollar to pick up a penny. Just because once in a blue moon they get it right dosnt mean we should forget the dozens of times they didn't. Infinite probability states if you roll the dice enough times soon or latter you'll get snake eyes.
But when they do get it right we should give them credit for it. If all you do is moan and complain even when the devs admit their mistake, they will be less inclined to do so in the future.
Nothing wrong with giving them credit but one good deed does not outweigh the dozen of misdeeds before it. Those of us who have seen this action (apology) followed by the continued pattern of missteps makes it extremely hard to accept this for what it appears to be (a genuine apology). It's not personal. They make mistakes just like everyone else. If this were an isolated incident or perhaps if there wasn't SO much mis-trust in the community it would be a lot easier for that 1/3 of the population to be a bit more forgiving versus the "salty" versions that are coming out. I can forgive actions. It's the forgetting and the trusting that takes more time on my end.
this is the type of communication that's nice to see from EA/CG:
admit the mistake but in doing so explain the intention behind the actions they took originally, and then let us know a change will be forthcoming when its ready. thank you, @CG_TopHat, for the words.
Nightsister Zombie needs no changes. I would guess the people complaining about this have mastered the Sith Raid and have many teams to use... so nerfing Zombie, and the NIghtsisters team along with her, benefits no one and punishes guilds farming and using her. But, the original problem was the loop... right?
thank you for admitting you were wrong. hopefully you figure out a way to fix the Traya auto problem without hurting other teams.
That's the hope. We're already investigating some other leads, but we're just trying to get the rollback taken care of today. I'll let the community know when we've got something more solid in place.
Please remove challenge gear and haat gear from the heroic sith rewards.
We should only get the g12 gear there.
The g12+ exclusive gear reward is ok, but the 3-6 salvage of the others g12 gear, which is also needed to craft the g12+ pieces are laughable.
This idea may have already been suggested but how about limiting the 50% tm gain to once per turn. This means she would only gain 50% tm. This would still give Traya some benefits in the team as it would increase damage and allow stacks to build higher since it would grant higher damage per hit (crit damage) and higher health recovery (health steal)
@CG_TopHat Thank you for admitting the mistakes and for all the work your team puts into this game.
Will anything be done to offset the progress the top teams/ guilds have made by employing this the seven star Traya / NS loop? Are you allowing the players who can employ this mechanic to do so until the change goes live?
Something else that has come from this fiasco that alot of people are not mentioning. Alot of players no longer feel confident investing in STR teams. Fact is you have shown that you will nerf a character/team you deam goes against "the spirit" of the raid. So I no longer feel confident in investing in Chex Mix which is a team the is souly used for the raid. I'm not the only one who feels like this either. How can you gain back that trust when we are 4 months into a raid and you decide to nerf a team that is specifically highlighted by you as a team to use in the raid.
@CG_TopHat thank you for your honesty and humility in admitting you made a mistake. This is a step in the right direction and I'm glad it's being done. It takes a lot of guys to admit a mistake and take ownership of it.
That said, this is a repeated type of issue around bad communication and hot fixes on Friday at the end of the work day. Please address this aspect in the future as well. Don't drop major changes on the community and then bail for the weekend. This is bad practice and one of if the reasons apple development sprints end inthe middle of the week.
Also, communication around this raid has been horrible, there is a thread started by your community manager that has been unanswered for basically 75 days. These are the types of things that really hurt consumer confidence in your game and your organization.
Thank you for hearing us and realizing the quick fix was hurting our trust in you. I’m still skeptical about the upcoming zombie change.... but if the system of bringing a problem to us for input and working out a mutually beneficial solution before a quick fix is attempted, I’m happy.
Thanks. Still really confused on whoever decided to roll this out at the end of the week with no warning or anything.
I made the call. Per the above, my general rule is to try to swiftly deal with infinite loop teams as fast as possible. Moved too fast this time.
Dagnabit @CG_TopHat, I was about to quit this game but it takes big cojones to accept responsibility for an abortion of this magnitute... I respect that... so I will give you guys ONE more chance... thats it... only ONE.... fix General Grevious and Ill give you guys TWO more chances
Great news. Thank you. Now, are you still planning to change Zombie’s mechanics independent of the upcoming raid fix?
Yes. That change is not in the immediate future (this week), but should be coming soon. I can't give a definitive date because, as I'm sure you can guess, Zombie is an interesting design nut to crack and we are still doing iteration on it.
Maybe I missed it, but why now? Zombie has been zombie since she was released and the high vs low gear debate just as long. Even on reddit there's a screenshot of TW with a CG employee using a NS team with a blue zombie..
Thank you for listening and admitting fault. Please don’t mess with Zombie though. I think she’s marvelous as is and only gets better, in my opinion, as she gets geared and starred. Mine is strong but fragile and I love her.
Thank you for listening and admitting your fault. I love this game. Friday felt like a bad fight. The weekend felt like we were probably breaking up. Today feels like one of us just drank too much on Friday and we are still in love with some lessons learned (hopefully).
While I'm really glad you backed off on this change I just can't trust you to do this right yet. I also am expecting any changes to zombie to be a similarly brutal mess up.
Please take our investment in these toons as seriously as we have to. Please make sure you beta test an actual change and get the feedback of people who care about the performance of the NS. Please make sure you listen to the feedback of people using them in context. Your game is a bit too big and too complex to spitball the implications of these kind of changes in 15 minute meetings.
And most of all, actually consider how rapidly you need to react to this stuff. You need to be defending the time and money we invest, because if we can't count on you to do it, we can't trust the integrity of our investment in game.
This is great, and all, but it doesn't fix the problem that the player base is punished because a sloppy product gets released. I get that each new character that gets released could potentially break some part of the game due to the ever increasing combinations of teammates and opponents, but that should be on the developers to test - either internally or though some beta program.
This game has a long history of "nerfing" characters that people spend time, crystals, and real money developing. Refunding a zeta is not sufficient and I get that you cannot fully characterize how much resources someone spends on a character, but maybe that is why the practice of nerfing should just be eliminated.
I also get why loops are bad for raids, etc, but I think I'm just at a breaking point with this game. It used to be my favorite and I still have hope that it will introduce new game modes that are fun, but I just feel like EA has lost sight of who the customers are and why they play the game. Everything lately has felt like a cash grab and nobody as EA/CG seem to care about the player experience anymore - this latest nerf was just another example of that.
Great news. Thank you. Now, are you still planning to change Zombie’s mechanics independent of the upcoming raid fix?
Yes. That change is not in the immediate future (this week), but should be coming soon. I can't give a definitive date because, as I'm sure you can guess, Zombie is an interesting design nut to crack and we are still doing iteration on it.
Maybe I missed it, but why now? Zombie has been zombie since she was released and the high vs low gear debate just as long. Even on reddit there's a screenshot of TW with a CG employee using a NS team with a blue zombie..
Because its admittedly really weird that gearing up a character could be an error. Zombie *should* reach maximum utility at high gear and no one should wish they could downgrade her (or any toon).
I just don't trust them not to somehow wreck her utility in the process. The only thing I can come up with that makes much sense is to give her an ability that gives her a chance to die on hit that eventually caps at 90%+. It's really odd design anyhow.
So i have a possible change that they should consider. Make it to were Darth traya either gains 100% turn meter or insta-kills a character at 80-100 stacks of bonds of weakness
Replies
@CG_TopHat If I may, a suggestion? I think the best answer to the potential infinite I've seen proposed these past couple of days is to change Acolyte's basic. What enables the combo, fundamentally, is that she shoots twice on her basic when in stealth (and gains stealth from that basic so she's never not in stealth). Without the double-shot, she can't get the infinite turns, since Asajj's lead will only give 50% turn meter at a time. So to preserve the intent but remove this interaction, perhaps she fires once but deals double damage when stealthed, or fires once but gets two hits from that one shot (ala Talzin hitting a target with Plague on it). That ought to eliminate the potential infinite once and for all without negatively impacting anything else, I think.
Nothing wrong with giving them credit but one good deed does not outweigh the dozen of misdeeds before it. Those of us who have seen this action (apology) followed by the continued pattern of missteps makes it extremely hard to accept this for what it appears to be (a genuine apology). It's not personal. They make mistakes just like everyone else. If this were an isolated incident or perhaps if there wasn't SO much mis-trust in the community it would be a lot easier for that 1/3 of the population to be a bit more forgiving versus the "salty" versions that are coming out. I can forgive actions. It's the forgetting and the trusting that takes more time on my end.
Honesty is refreshing. Thank you! But can someone please address STR? The STR is what's really hurting this game. https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/profile/CG_TopHat
admit the mistake but in doing so explain the intention behind the actions they took originally, and then let us know a change will be forthcoming when its ready. thank you, @CG_TopHat, for the words.
History
Please remove challenge gear and haat gear from the heroic sith rewards.
We should only get the g12 gear there.
The g12+ exclusive gear reward is ok, but the 3-6 salvage of the others g12 gear, which is also needed to craft the g12+ pieces are laughable.
Will anything be done to offset the progress the top teams/ guilds have made by employing this the seven star Traya / NS loop? Are you allowing the players who can employ this mechanic to do so until the change goes live?
That said, this is a repeated type of issue around bad communication and hot fixes on Friday at the end of the work day. Please address this aspect in the future as well. Don't drop major changes on the community and then bail for the weekend. This is bad practice and one of if the reasons apple development sprints end inthe middle of the week.
Also, communication around this raid has been horrible, there is a thread started by your community manager that has been unanswered for basically 75 days. These are the types of things that really hurt consumer confidence in your game and your organization.
MTFBWY
Thank you
Dagnabit @CG_TopHat, I was about to quit this game but it takes big cojones to accept responsibility for an abortion of this magnitute... I respect that... so I will give you guys ONE more chance... thats it... only ONE.... fix General Grevious and Ill give you guys TWO more chances
Maybe I missed it, but why now? Zombie has been zombie since she was released and the high vs low gear debate just as long. Even on reddit there's a screenshot of TW with a CG employee using a NS team with a blue zombie..
Please take our investment in these toons as seriously as we have to. Please make sure you beta test an actual change and get the feedback of people who care about the performance of the NS. Please make sure you listen to the feedback of people using them in context. Your game is a bit too big and too complex to spitball the implications of these kind of changes in 15 minute meetings.
And most of all, actually consider how rapidly you need to react to this stuff. You need to be defending the time and money we invest, because if we can't count on you to do it, we can't trust the integrity of our investment in game.
This game has a long history of "nerfing" characters that people spend time, crystals, and real money developing. Refunding a zeta is not sufficient and I get that you cannot fully characterize how much resources someone spends on a character, but maybe that is why the practice of nerfing should just be eliminated.
I also get why loops are bad for raids, etc, but I think I'm just at a breaking point with this game. It used to be my favorite and I still have hope that it will introduce new game modes that are fun, but I just feel like EA has lost sight of who the customers are and why they play the game. Everything lately has felt like a cash grab and nobody as EA/CG seem to care about the player experience anymore - this latest nerf was just another example of that.
Because its admittedly really weird that gearing up a character could be an error. Zombie *should* reach maximum utility at high gear and no one should wish they could downgrade her (or any toon).
I just don't trust them not to somehow wreck her utility in the process. The only thing I can come up with that makes much sense is to give her an ability that gives her a chance to die on hit that eventually caps at 90%+. It's really odd design anyhow.
Yep, we were heard.