I'm just going to throw this out there, but for ALL future content updates, maybe you should move to a Tuesday instead of a Thursday, so you have time to catch any bugs you may not have noticed in the small amount of testing you have, compared to millions of us getting our hands on it. This would give more of an opportunity to attempt to fix them before the weekend. Announce on Wednesday, fix on Friday or Saturday (if you really need to). Also, that's let's of have a few days where we can actually ask question to the devs and get answers rather than the silence of the weekend. Just saying. Tuesday updates >Thursday updates
I'm still reluctant to put money into swgoh after all this.
Usually I buy crystals for 50 Bucks at the beginning of a month, but I'm not sure such unpleasant things won't happen again.
I believe the change would have been permament if it hadn't resulted in another bug. The way they approached this was kind of aggressive.
And still some players report that they didn't get the zetas refunded, although their Old Dakas had been unzetad.
It can be easy, in the face of the wrong call, to dig in and try to defend your rationale in the first place – but it would be the wrong thing for the game, and we are, like you, first and foremost fans of this game – so I am asking for your faith that, even though we may make the wrong decisions from time to time, if they really are wrong, we will correct it.
I love this statement and line, but I wish I could believe it. However I need only look at the Sith Raid Feedback thread that is now over 50 pages long, a thread you have asked for our input on and we have responded so there is little doubt or question on our feelings here, yet you have dug in and even worse as per your quote above you haven't even explained your rationale. Just dug in. No response. No answers from you as to why. None on what you plan to do, if anything at all, and if nothing at all you haven't even declared that. It's like you're ignoring the problem.
Yet for the AV loop you jump right into action and then immediately roll it back. Something so minor compared to the Sith Raid as a whole. That get's your attention. Such a minor thing relatively speaking compared to the overall structure of the raid itself and all we want is some kind of acknowledgement and answers and we get none. We know you can hear us/read us. I mean how can you not, yet you have dug in. Please, if you are as passionate about the game as you claim, and fans as you claim, then you must understand our frustration of hearing nothing at all. Please acknowledge us and explain you're reason for digging in. I know that HAAT at first was hard and people complained so time fixed things as we learned strategies. This is not HAAT. Not by a long shot. If you want to keep it hard then by all means do so and explain that. Say it's end game content and not for everyone, but everyone should be able to work towards end game content so maybe at the very least change the tier 1-6 reward structure to hep people get there.
Anyways I guess it's all been said ad nauseam from our side. We're just missing you input.
Mad Props to you CGtophat as I was ready to leave the game behind but the response you gave to the community allows us as players feel like we matter and you listened to our feedback and did what most developers should do which is make the players feel like they are important. I left MSF behind for that reason as their developers simply do not care. You have restored my faith in you guys and as far as I am concerned that is reason enough for me to continue to enjoy the game. Thank you very much for listening and letting us know that our opinions and insight do matter. Thumbs up!!!
He admitted a mistake and rolled back the mistake. I'm glad this happened.
But this doesn't change the fact that they are ignoring a very vocal and well-educated community of theory crafters that the proposed changes to Nightsisters are not the answer. This apology feels like crocodile tears when they then go on to place the blame on Asajj Ventress and NS Zombie and keep them in the sights of the nerf hammer.
There are simpler and less broad solutions here and barely any mention of consideration. The "prevent other health steal up teams" explanation is not believable based on the dev teams' history.
I think the easiest fix would be to make it so Asajj’s zeta only gives TM a maximum of once per character per turn. Either that or make it so that bonds of weakness deals damage once per turn. If it were to count how many actions were used, and then deal all damage together at the end of the turn, that would stop the infinite combo, but would also destroy the NS squad. They wouldn’t be able to heal from their life steal if they were taking damage later. So, the first suggestion would likely be best. There will be backlash, because people like to complain, but it will affect people very minimally.
I’m seeing a lot of people say that this is damage control. I just need to say: damage control isn’t necessary for a huge public overreaction! My guild had absolutely no issues with the way their Nightsister squads worked after the “nerf”. They were still putting up absolutely massive numbers. Doing significantly more damage than any other squad in the raid. I realize that people like to complain about any perceived threat to their roster, but next time... wait to at least test your squad before complaining about how it was “ruined”.
@CG_TopHat. Is it safe to continue gearing nightsisters for the Str? I have some g12+ pieces I can use, but I just want to know that nightsisters wont be nerfed in the future. Thanks for the rollback.
It can be easy, in the face of the wrong call, to dig in and try to defend your rationale in the first place – but it would be the wrong thing for the game, and we are, like you, first and foremost fans of this game – so I am asking for your faith that, even though we may make the wrong decisions from time to time, if they really are wrong, we will correct it.
I love this statement and line, but I wish I could believe it. However I need only look at the Sith Raid Feedback thread that is now over 50 pages long, a thread you have asked for our input on and we have responded so there is little doubt or question on our feelings here, yet you have dug in and even worse as per your quote above you haven't even explained your rationale. Just dug in. No response. No answers from you as to why. None on what you plan to do, if anything at all, and if nothing at all you haven't even declared that. It's like you're ignoring the problem.
Yet for the AV loop you jump right into action and then immediately roll it back. Something so minor compared to the Sith Raid as a whole. That get's your attention. Such a minor thing relatively speaking compared to the overall structure of the raid itself and all we want is some kind of acknowledgement and answers and we get none. We know you can hear us/read us. I mean how can you not, yet you have dug in. Please, if you are as passionate about the game as you claim, and fans as you claim, then you must understand our frustration of hearing nothing at all. Please acknowledge us and explain you're reason for digging in. I know that HAAT at first was hard and people complained so time fixed things as we learned strategies. This is not HAAT. Not by a long shot. If you want to keep it hard then by all means do so and explain that. Say it's end game content and not for everyone, but everyone should be able to work towards end game content so maybe at the very least change the tier 1-6 reward structure to hep people get there.
Anyways I guess it's all been said ad nauseam from our side. We're just missing you input.
I’m seeing a lot of people say that this is damage control. I just need to say: damage control isn’t necessary for a huge public overreaction! My guild had absolutely no issues with the way their Nightsister squads worked after the “nerf”. They were still putting up absolutely massive numbers. Doing significantly more damage than any other squad in the raid. I realize that people like to complain about any perceived threat to their roster, but next time... wait to at least test your squad before complaining about how it was “ruined”.
There was outcry but I think you're ignoring two very important parts of this whole debacle:
This change slows guild progression if you do not have HSTR farmable. Play testing with good but not god-level teams showed a 50% damage reduction. The 'fix' also does nothing to the people that already have the raid on Farm and have/will soon have maxed Trayas that could even benefit from the bugged team. They have plenty of other weapons and have probably conglomerated into a concentrated power guild. Anyone else not doing that though... gets immediately setback on account of the people that have already made it.
And they did something like this before with the Expose nerf. Fortunately, we as a community have figured out how to overcome that one since. But these echoes are concerning. This is not a new problem, at its core. It is yet another iteration of the same issues that were supposed to have changed.
Oh and that feedback thread with no development response or Q&A or anything... What's the point if nothing is being done, as far as we know and have seen? If something is being done, they should have someone from the team in that thread all the time working with people. Make it an actual discussion thread not just an unattended suggestion box.
I'm still reluctant to put money into swgoh after all this.
Usually I buy crystals for 50 Bucks at the beginning of a month, but I'm not sure such unpleasant things won't happen again.
I believe the change would have been permament if it hadn't resulted in another bug. The way they approached this was kind of aggressive.
And still some players report that they didn't get the zetas refunded, although their Old Dakas had been unzetad.
As far as I know, no dakas were un-zeta'd. Anyone who believes something like that happened to their account should reach out to CG/EA directly.
Pretty sure this was reversed because the bug couldn't be easily fixed - that's all.
CG doubles down all the time.
The STR feedback thread is proof you've doubled down HARD on the most boring content this game as ever had - one with some of the worst rewards for t1-6. Where's the communication that?
Ditto for ships 2.0 - maybe not as universally hated - but none of the stated reasons for changing ships were accomplished. Plus you doubled down hard - nerfing ships (and so toons) people invested in.
Based on 2018 so far, until I see some answers on the STR feedback thread - there is absolutely no doubt this reversal was ONLY because of the bug it introduced. I won't be surprised if we get the EXACT same "fix" once they can make the client-side change in a few weeks.
@CG_TopHat and other @CG_ guys..There was a an easier Fix to the Critolyte team..All u had to do was make Nightsisters IMMUNE to Health Steal Buffs..tat would have solved the issue..But if u still feel like the problem is with Asaji even the God cannot save this Game...May the Force be with u
I'm a bit worried they only rolled it back because they introduced a new bug with it.
Generally speaking that is the only reason for a rollback, otherwise you fix your mess and move on. But letting it stay was bad because it caused a bug and could lead to more problems down the road. It's just good sense to roll back and remove the additional problem, instead of adding on top of an already existing issue.
@CG_TopHat This is great news. I wish you guys would credit me back my Daka zeta. Zeta was removed from my Old Daka Sunday morning with no refund. Now I’m down 1 zeta and getting bounced around from one support person to the next for the last 3 days. Make that 4 days now.
The Rollba m was a good choice by development team. However even with the rollback, that doesn’t fix all the glaring problems that still need to get addressed.
There is a thread with over 1500 Posts in it about the Sith triumvirate Raid and it hasn’t been responded to by the development team in almost 2 months. This was a thread created by one of the devs, and then was promptly forgotten about. This shouldn’t happen. Top hat claimed that communication is something they are constantly striving to make better. this shouldn’t happen. Top hat claimed that communication is something they are constantly striving to make better. By ignoring Thousands of posts for a better reward structure in the read, they are doing the exact opposite. Why ask for your community to give feedback, claim it’s not being ignored, and then do exactly that.
Come on guys, you made the right choice in rolling back the critolyte fix until a proper solution can be had. However the work isn’t done. Dive into the raid and apply the feedback your community has given. There’s no reason why the lower tiers offer such terrible rewards for sometimes over a week of work. There’s no reason for the top heavy rewards in the heroic tier. Come on devs, you need to address this before it’s too late.
It can be easy, in the face of the wrong call, to dig in and try to defend your rationale in the first place – but it would be the wrong thing for the game, and we are, like you, first and foremost fans of this game – so I am asking for your faith that, even though we may make the wrong decisions from time to time, if they really are wrong, we will correct it.
I love this statement and line, but I wish I could believe it. However I need only look at the Sith Raid Feedback thread that is now over 50 pages long, a thread you have asked for our input on and we have responded so there is little doubt or question on our feelings here, yet you have dug in and even worse as per your quote above you haven't even explained your rationale. Just dug in. No response. No answers from you as to why. None on what you plan to do, if anything at all, and if nothing at all you haven't even declared that. It's like you're ignoring the problem.
Yet for the AV loop you jump right into action and then immediately roll it back. Something so minor compared to the Sith Raid as a whole. That get's your attention. Such a minor thing relatively speaking compared to the overall structure of the raid itself and all we want is some kind of acknowledgement and answers and we get none. We know you can hear us/read us. I mean how can you not, yet you have dug in. Please, if you are as passionate about the game as you claim, and fans as you claim, then you must understand our frustration of hearing nothing at all. Please acknowledge us and explain you're reason for digging in. I know that HAAT at first was hard and people complained so time fixed things as we learned strategies. This is not HAAT. Not by a long shot. If you want to keep it hard then by all means do so and explain that. Say it's end game content and not for everyone, but everyone should be able to work towards end game content so maybe at the very least change the tier 1-6 reward structure to hep people get there.
Anyways I guess it's all been said ad nauseam from our side. We're just missing you input.
Why are people thanking CG for this? If I came to your house and punched a hole in the wall then the next day came back to fix it and say sorry you wouldn't say "props, thanks for this, cudos etc"
Why are people thanking CG for this? If I came to your house and punched a hole in the wall then the next day came back to fix it and say sorry you wouldn't say "props, thanks for this, cudos etc"
I'd thank you for taking responsibility for it instead of pretending you didn't do it. I wouldn't invite you to any more dinner parties though.
Why are people thanking CG for this? If I came to your house and punched a hole in the wall then the next day came back to fix it and say sorry you wouldn't say "props, thanks for this, cudos etc"
Also, someone pointed out earlier that the word "sorry" was never actually used.
@CG_TopHat Thank you for leading by example and taking responsibility for the decision to nerf NS. I was one of the many that was very disgruntled. May I ask that developers Beta test changes with some of the top guild players prior to releasing an update like this in the future? Also, could you guys PLEASE stop releasing updates on Friday? If the update causes malfunctions, we the customer base, have to wait all weekend for a response from developers as to how the bug or problem will be resolved. It's not good customer service to do that.
Why are people thanking CG for this? If I came to your house and punched a hole in the wall then the next day came back to fix it and say sorry you wouldn't say "props, thanks for this, cudos etc"
I was wondering about this earlier, before the person who mentioned the fact that sorry was never actually said.
I think its more to do with the fact that "Change happened" Whether we caused it or not, whether its because of the bug or not, people are happy to see some action actually happen after how dreadful everything has been for so long that they are thanking for it.
Why are people thanking CG for this? If I came to your house and punched a hole in the wall then the next day came back to fix it and say sorry you wouldn't say "props, thanks for this, cudos etc"
So this game is your house? Not CG's?
Yes they screwed up the "fix", but I dont know many Game Companies/Devs who would admit their mistake and roll back a bad update.
For that, props to CG and TopHat!
I'm a bit worried they only rolled it back because they introduced a new bug with it.
Generally speaking that is the only reason for a rollback, otherwise you fix your mess and move on. But letting it stay was bad because it caused a bug and could lead to more problems down the road. It's just good sense to roll back and remove the additional problem, instead of adding on top of an already existing issue.
For sure it's great they're rolling it back. I'm just saying I'm not sure they would have done it if not for the new bug. In which case they would've been ****, there's still time for them to be that, mind.
Why are people thanking CG for this? If I came to your house and punched a hole in the wall then the next day came back to fix it and say sorry you wouldn't say "props, thanks for this, cudos etc"
So this game is your house? Not CG's?
Yes they screwed up the "fix", but I dont know many Game Companies/Devs who would admit their mistake and roll back a bad update.
For that, props to CG and TopHat!
No, it is not CG’s house. The game does not exist for CG employees who graciously let us use it. The game is for the players, many of whom pay to play and thus expect to get a quality product in return. It is nice they recognized the mistake, but let’s also acknowledge that 1. Not many game companies would have rolled out such a hasty fix which was bound to induce near universal outrage across the player base, and 2. It took a riot on the forums along with financial consequences that we aren’t allowed to discuss here for them to actually listen.
Replies
Usually I buy crystals for 50 Bucks at the beginning of a month, but I'm not sure such unpleasant things won't happen again.
I believe the change would have been permament if it hadn't resulted in another bug. The way they approached this was kind of aggressive.
And still some players report that they didn't get the zetas refunded, although their Old Dakas had been unzetad.
I love this statement and line, but I wish I could believe it. However I need only look at the Sith Raid Feedback thread that is now over 50 pages long, a thread you have asked for our input on and we have responded so there is little doubt or question on our feelings here, yet you have dug in and even worse as per your quote above you haven't even explained your rationale. Just dug in. No response. No answers from you as to why. None on what you plan to do, if anything at all, and if nothing at all you haven't even declared that. It's like you're ignoring the problem.
Yet for the AV loop you jump right into action and then immediately roll it back. Something so minor compared to the Sith Raid as a whole. That get's your attention. Such a minor thing relatively speaking compared to the overall structure of the raid itself and all we want is some kind of acknowledgement and answers and we get none. We know you can hear us/read us. I mean how can you not, yet you have dug in. Please, if you are as passionate about the game as you claim, and fans as you claim, then you must understand our frustration of hearing nothing at all. Please acknowledge us and explain you're reason for digging in. I know that HAAT at first was hard and people complained so time fixed things as we learned strategies. This is not HAAT. Not by a long shot. If you want to keep it hard then by all means do so and explain that. Say it's end game content and not for everyone, but everyone should be able to work towards end game content so maybe at the very least change the tier 1-6 reward structure to hep people get there.
Anyways I guess it's all been said ad nauseam from our side. We're just missing you input.
Thank you.
But this doesn't change the fact that they are ignoring a very vocal and well-educated community of theory crafters that the proposed changes to Nightsisters are not the answer. This apology feels like crocodile tears when they then go on to place the blame on Asajj Ventress and NS Zombie and keep them in the sights of the nerf hammer.
There are simpler and less broad solutions here and barely any mention of consideration. The "prevent other health steal up teams" explanation is not believable based on the dev teams' history.
Listen to your player base.
I second this statement.
There was outcry but I think you're ignoring two very important parts of this whole debacle:
This change slows guild progression if you do not have HSTR farmable. Play testing with good but not god-level teams showed a 50% damage reduction. The 'fix' also does nothing to the people that already have the raid on Farm and have/will soon have maxed Trayas that could even benefit from the bugged team. They have plenty of other weapons and have probably conglomerated into a concentrated power guild. Anyone else not doing that though... gets immediately setback on account of the people that have already made it.
And they did something like this before with the Expose nerf. Fortunately, we as a community have figured out how to overcome that one since. But these echoes are concerning. This is not a new problem, at its core. It is yet another iteration of the same issues that were supposed to have changed.
Oh and that feedback thread with no development response or Q&A or anything... What's the point if nothing is being done, as far as we know and have seen? If something is being done, they should have someone from the team in that thread all the time working with people. Make it an actual discussion thread not just an unattended suggestion box.
As far as I know, no dakas were un-zeta'd. Anyone who believes something like that happened to their account should reach out to CG/EA directly.
CG doubles down all the time.
The STR feedback thread is proof you've doubled down HARD on the most boring content this game as ever had - one with some of the worst rewards for t1-6. Where's the communication that?
Ditto for ships 2.0 - maybe not as universally hated - but none of the stated reasons for changing ships were accomplished. Plus you doubled down hard - nerfing ships (and so toons) people invested in.
Based on 2018 so far, until I see some answers on the STR feedback thread - there is absolutely no doubt this reversal was ONLY because of the bug it introduced. I won't be surprised if we get the EXACT same "fix" once they can make the client-side change in a few weeks.
1. When will the rollback occur?
2. Will there be some sort of compensation for the 2 raids we've run already with this bugged "fix"?
Generally speaking that is the only reason for a rollback, otherwise you fix your mess and move on. But letting it stay was bad because it caused a bug and could lead to more problems down the road. It's just good sense to roll back and remove the additional problem, instead of adding on top of an already existing issue.
The Rollba m was a good choice by development team. However even with the rollback, that doesn’t fix all the glaring problems that still need to get addressed.
There is a thread with over 1500 Posts in it about the Sith triumvirate Raid and it hasn’t been responded to by the development team in almost 2 months. This was a thread created by one of the devs, and then was promptly forgotten about. This shouldn’t happen. Top hat claimed that communication is something they are constantly striving to make better. this shouldn’t happen. Top hat claimed that communication is something they are constantly striving to make better. By ignoring Thousands of posts for a better reward structure in the read, they are doing the exact opposite. Why ask for your community to give feedback, claim it’s not being ignored, and then do exactly that.
Come on guys, you made the right choice in rolling back the critolyte fix until a proper solution can be had. However the work isn’t done. Dive into the raid and apply the feedback your community has given. There’s no reason why the lower tiers offer such terrible rewards for sometimes over a week of work. There’s no reason for the top heavy rewards in the heroic tier. Come on devs, you need to address this before it’s too late.
RT
I'd thank you for taking responsibility for it instead of pretending you didn't do it. I wouldn't invite you to any more dinner parties though.
Also, someone pointed out earlier that the word "sorry" was never actually used.
Thanks again
I was wondering about this earlier, before the person who mentioned the fact that sorry was never actually said.
I think its more to do with the fact that "Change happened" Whether we caused it or not, whether its because of the bug or not, people are happy to see some action actually happen after how dreadful everything has been for so long that they are thanking for it.
So this game is your house? Not CG's?
Yes they screwed up the "fix", but I dont know many Game Companies/Devs who would admit their mistake and roll back a bad update.
For that, props to CG and TopHat!
No, it is not CG’s house. The game does not exist for CG employees who graciously let us use it. The game is for the players, many of whom pay to play and thus expect to get a quality product in return. It is nice they recognized the mistake, but let’s also acknowledge that 1. Not many game companies would have rolled out such a hasty fix which was bound to induce near universal outrage across the player base, and 2. It took a riot on the forums along with financial consequences that we aren’t allowed to discuss here for them to actually listen.