Preventing Critolyte, Second Pass [MEGA]

Replies

  • IceHawk117
    36 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    IceHawk117 wrote: »
    Seems like a reasonable change. It's giving her a higher stealth chance and a larger heal when she crits, making it even more difficult to defeat her with AoEs while stealthed. I like it.

    Her stealth chance was 70% x2 = 91%. It is a lower stealth chance.

    She gets a larger single heal to offset two potential heals.

    They matched her damage and healing, but not her ability to take down foresight on 1st attack, revive other NS per attack (under MT), and cleanse per attack.
    • 1% less chance for stealth.
    • No foresight removal.
    • Half the assists.
    • Half the chance for revival.
    • Half the chance for cleanse

    The revision does provide a single attack with higher "peak" damage (same total damage), which could help with raid nihilis and nest protection.

    I meant that 90% is higher than 70%. I have often used Acolyte and it took her forever to get into stealth because 70% wasn’t high enough. So now there is a better chance that she’ll go stealth on her first turn. Nobody is really complaining about the 1% difference in her chance to keep stealth.

    Yes, lots of people are complaining about how she now can’t hit foresight and then hit for damage.

    Acolyte doesn’t call any assists. What do you mean by that?

    It’s not half the chance for revival. It’s reviving half the amount of dead NS. And I’ve never run NS but if at least two people are dead aren’t you already losing? Someone like Sion will probably just remove stealth from NA, the enemies will kill her and then you’re left with zombie and maybe someone else. Correct me if being down to two or three characters is usually a winning situation, as I’m normally losing when I only have two or three characters left.

    Her special ability still has 100% chance to cleanse when she crits. I haven’t heard of that chance being halved.

    -Yes, Acolyte has a higher initial chance to stealth.

    But no one was really complaining about getting into stealth either. Remaining in stealth is key. Some look for battles where acolyte zombie cheese can carry them. If they want to push deep into PVE (e.g. DS TB, raids), the key is to maintain stealth.

    -Yes. I was not technically referring to assists.

    I was shorthanding "attacks of a temporary revival" to differentiate from "revivals that become permanent when the target is killed".

    -No. It is half the revivals.

    If you have only 1 NS down, you are typically going to revive that NS every other turn. If you get two attacks you ensure that NS is revived every turn. That helps when you are trying to kill something off and permanently revive that character.

    NS squads often run into a deficit. MT can revive NS. Daka can revive NS. Any NS can revive NS under MT lead. You will see some players not run zombie under MT lead. They hammer offense with other NS. If they have an NS die, it attacks twice as often on revivals (unless a remaining NS is isolated). The NS squad hits harder as it falls. But it becomes a race to kill an opponent character or for Daka to ressurect.

    I don't recall Sion stripping stealth from Acolyte, Leia, or R2? But a stealthed player is subject to AOE damage.

    -No. Acolyte has half the attacks to crit -> half the potential cleanses.

    -In short, it's an accepted nerf.

    End game NS prefer this over the prior heroic raid fix. Acolyte hits harder and is more consistent.
    • This revision stabilizes HST.
    • You have the same total DPS.
      (Per developer testing)
    • You have a 100% higher peak attack.(Greater penetration past defenses)
    • You have a 20% higher initial stealth.
      (1% less per turn)

    Other NS are upset at the results. Developers missed character interactions. Common NS MT Acolyte squads have taken a hit.
    • Foresight is no longer removed.
    • MT lead revivals are halved.
    • Daka / Asajj stacks are halved.
    • Cleanse is halved.

    Edit: I was incorrect. Cleanse is not halved.
    Post edited by IceHawk117 on
  • Deum_Alisi1
    117 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    If you haven't played NS you can't really see how huge a nerf this was, especially in arena.(and in all the other areas of the game)For me personally, I was just getting into the top 50. Now I can't even break the top 100. Everything is the same except acoylte. I don't know who you run in arena, so I can't give you an example you can relate to. Just trust when everyone who uses them says that it's a huge nerf, and one that was done because of another toon, it really blows. We spent a lot of our time building this squad up to be a viable team, and they ruined it. It's a huge slap in the face. Honestly at this point I feel like ea should be paying discord for keeping their game going. It's only because of the friendships we've made there that a lot us still play with any real interest.
  • EA_Cian wrote: »
    Quick reminder and I've removed multiple posts for this already, mass tagging staff isn't okay. While I get you're wanting to get eyes on it, you're abusing the tool and it goes against our forum rules by virtue of being disruptive and can come off as harassment.

    This isn't okay.

    Do you know what is not okay? This change, and EAs horrendous lack of customer service.

    Do you know what else is not okay? You coming into this thread, and not showing your paying customers the miniscule amount of respect that would be considered socially acceptable by responding to concerns, after the CG posts are full of misleading rubbish like "virtually no change".

    Shame. Shame. Shame.
  • IceHawk117 wrote: »
    IceHawk117 wrote: »
    Seems like a reasonable change. It's giving her a higher stealth chance and a larger heal when she crits, making it even more difficult to defeat her with AoEs while stealthed. I like it.

    Her stealth chance was 70% x2 = 91%. It is a lower stealth chance.

    She gets a larger single heal to offset two potential heals.

    They matched her damage and healing, but not her ability to take down foresight on 1st attack, revive other NS per attack (under MT), and cleanse per attack.
    • 1% less chance for stealth.
    • No foresight removal.
    • Half the assists.
    • Half the chance for revival.
    • Half the chance for cleanse

    The revision does provide a single attack with higher "peak" damage (same total damage), which could help with raid nihilis and nest protection.

    I meant that 90% is higher than 70%. I have often used Acolyte and it took her forever to get into stealth because 70% wasn’t high enough. So now there is a better chance that she’ll go stealth on her first turn. Nobody is really complaining about the 1% difference in her chance to keep stealth.

    Yes, lots of people are complaining about how she now can’t hit foresight and then hit for damage.

    Acolyte doesn’t call any assists. What do you mean by that?

    It’s not half the chance for revival. It’s reviving half the amount of dead NS. And I’ve never run NS but if at least two people are dead aren’t you already losing? Someone like Sion will probably just remove stealth from NA, the enemies will kill her and then you’re left with zombie and maybe someone else. Correct me if being down to two or three characters is usually a winning situation, as I’m normally losing when I only have two or three characters left.

    Her special ability still has 100% chance to cleanse when she crits. I haven’t heard of that chance being halved.

    -No. It is half the revivals.

    If you have only 1 NS down, you are typically going to revive that NS every other turn. If you get two attacks you ensure that NS is revived every turn. That helps when you are trying to kill something off and permanently revive that character.

    NS squads often run into a deficit. MT can revive NS. Daka can revive NS. Any NS can revive NS under MT lead. You will see some players not run zombie under MT lead. They hammer offense with other NS. If they have an NS die, it attacks twice as often on revivals (unless a remaining NS is isolated). The NS squad hits harder as it falls. But it becomes a race to kill an opponent character or for Daka to ressurect.

    I don't recall Sion stripping stealth from Acolyte, Leia, or R2? But a stealthed player is subject to AOE damage.

    -No. Acolyte has half the attacks to crit -> half the potential cleanses.

    -In short, it's an accepted nerf.

    I already said that it’s half the revivals. We agree on that.

    Thanks for explaining how NS can win in a losing situation. They basically just revive over and over to overwhelm the enemy and they start to hit harder, but it can be a bit RNG dependent.

    Yes, Sion can strip Stealth from NA, Leia, and R2’s-D2.

    Reread NA’s special ability. It used to attack once, and it still attacks once. It never attacked twice. It used to cleanse one ally when she crit, and it still does. Her special was not changed.

    Yes people accept it as a nerf. I suppose with the fewer potential revives and missing through foresight it can be considered a nerf.
  • IceHawk117
    36 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    IceHawk117 wrote: »
    IceHawk117 wrote: »
    Seems like a reasonable change. It's giving her a higher stealth chance and a larger heal when she crits, making it even more difficult to defeat her with AoEs while stealthed. I like it.

    Her stealth chance was 70% x2 = 91%. It is a lower stealth chance.

    She gets a larger single heal to offset two potential heals.

    They matched her damage and healing, but not her ability to take down foresight on 1st attack, revive other NS per attack (under MT), and cleanse per attack.
    • 1% less chance for stealth.
    • No foresight removal.
    • Half the assists.
    • Half the chance for revival.
    • Half the chance for cleanse

    The revision does provide a single attack with higher "peak" damage (same total damage), which could help with raid nihilis and nest protection.

    I meant that 90% is higher than 70%. I have often used Acolyte and it took her forever to get into stealth because 70% wasn’t high enough. So now there is a better chance that she’ll go stealth on her first turn. Nobody is really complaining about the 1% difference in her chance to keep stealth.

    Yes, lots of people are complaining about how she now can’t hit foresight and then hit for damage.

    Acolyte doesn’t call any assists. What do you mean by that?

    It’s not half the chance for revival. It’s reviving half the amount of dead NS. And I’ve never run NS but if at least two people are dead aren’t you already losing? Someone like Sion will probably just remove stealth from NA, the enemies will kill her and then you’re left with zombie and maybe someone else. Correct me if being down to two or three characters is usually a winning situation, as I’m normally losing when I only have two or three characters left.

    Her special ability still has 100% chance to cleanse when she crits. I haven’t heard of that chance being halved.

    -No. It is half the revivals.

    If you have only 1 NS down, you are typically going to revive that NS every other turn. If you get two attacks you ensure that NS is revived every turn. That helps when you are trying to kill something off and permanently revive that character.

    NS squads often run into a deficit. MT can revive NS. Daka can revive NS. Any NS can revive NS under MT lead. You will see some players not run zombie under MT lead. They hammer offense with other NS. If they have an NS die, it attacks twice as often on revivals (unless a remaining NS is isolated). The NS squad hits harder as it falls. But it becomes a race to kill an opponent character or for Daka to ressurect.

    I don't recall Sion stripping stealth from Acolyte, Leia, or R2? But a stealthed player is subject to AOE damage.

    -No. Acolyte has half the attacks to crit -> half the potential cleanses.

    -In short, it's an accepted nerf.

    I already said that it’s half the revivals. We agree on that.

    Thanks for explaining how NS can win in a losing situation. They basically just revive over and over to overwhelm the enemy and they start to hit harder, but it can be a bit RNG dependent.

    Yes, Sion can strip Stealth from NA, Leia, and R2’s-D2.

    Reread NA’s special ability. It used to attack once, and it still attacks once. It never attacked twice. It used to cleanse one ally when she crit, and it still does. Her special was not changed.

    Yes people accept it as a nerf. I suppose with the fewer potential revives and missing through foresight it can be considered a nerf.

    Yes, MT lead based NS are somewhat wack-a mole.

    I will have to follow up on Sion. I don't recall losing stealth on Leia in Phase 2. But she may just re-stealth. I use Spirit in Arena.

    Good catch on cleanse.

    Nerf:
    End game NS defend the change. But in my opinion much of that stems from fear of the developers. The developers first reaction was extreme. Many end game NS would be fine with losing Acolyte rather than other potential developer tweaks to the sith raid or NS.

    I don't know if that is fair to current acolyte users. End game NS claim they just need to develop their squads better. Might as well just go tell them to buy an account :/. It takes time to get from A to B. Ideally, fixes for the sith raid should be limited to the sith raid.

    Thanks for the dialogue.
    Post edited by IceHawk117 on
  • Deum_Alisi1
    117 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Who are these end game NS users that say it's ok? You must mean those who already unlocked Traya, because I highly doubt anyone else has said it.
  • Who are these end game NS users that say it's ok? You must mean those who already unlocked Traya, because I highly doubt anyone else has said it.

    I don't know if I can share links.
    Here is the NS discord server.
    https://discord.gg/QsRdVhb
  • Deum_Alisi1
    117 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    The link takes me to an invite page, but once you click on it it takes you to the app store.
  • NVM. I got in.
  • Ok now where do you see them saying it's an ok nerf? I mean those who don't have Traya.
  • Acolyte channel, scroll back for the full conversation. But I wouldn't wade into that unprepared...
  • Someone tried a bug report on the loss of revives. They were advised it is working as intended. You have to scroll back far enough on that channel to find this link to know you have found the start of the conversation.

    https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/Acolyte-under-Talzin-zeta-d-lead-no-longer-reviving-two-toons/m-p/6968016#M16607

    That's why I'd call it an accepted nerf.
  • I did, and it was exactly as I stated. Those with Traya are claiming it's ok. It's almost as if they don't want to fix the character that's actually the problem. Hmmm....
  • Deum_Alisi1
    117 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Thank you for the invite Icehawk. I see there's a lot of chatter by a lot of other nabs such as myself. It's good to know I am legion

    Oh just so we are clear. Her double revive was never part of my game play. I'm honestly **** I never got to use it, or didn't notice it to take advantage of it.
  • IceHawk117 wrote: »
    IceHawk117 wrote: »
    IceHawk117 wrote: »
    Seems like a reasonable change. It's giving her a higher stealth chance and a larger heal when she crits, making it even more difficult to defeat her with AoEs while stealthed. I like it.

    Her stealth chance was 70% x2 = 91%. It is a lower stealth chance.

    She gets a larger single heal to offset two potential heals.

    They matched her damage and healing, but not her ability to take down foresight on 1st attack, revive other NS per attack (under MT), and cleanse per attack.
    • 1% less chance for stealth.
    • No foresight removal.
    • Half the assists.
    • Half the chance for revival.
    • Half the chance for cleanse

    The revision does provide a single attack with higher "peak" damage (same total damage), which could help with raid nihilis and nest protection.

    I meant that 90% is higher than 70%. I have often used Acolyte and it took her forever to get into stealth because 70% wasn’t high enough. So now there is a better chance that she’ll go stealth on her first turn. Nobody is really complaining about the 1% difference in her chance to keep stealth.

    Yes, lots of people are complaining about how she now can’t hit foresight and then hit for damage.

    Acolyte doesn’t call any assists. What do you mean by that?

    It’s not half the chance for revival. It’s reviving half the amount of dead NS. And I’ve never run NS but if at least two people are dead aren’t you already losing? Someone like Sion will probably just remove stealth from NA, the enemies will kill her and then you’re left with zombie and maybe someone else. Correct me if being down to two or three characters is usually a winning situation, as I’m normally losing when I only have two or three characters left.

    Her special ability still has 100% chance to cleanse when she crits. I haven’t heard of that chance being halved.

    -No. It is half the revivals.

    If you have only 1 NS down, you are typically going to revive that NS every other turn. If you get two attacks you ensure that NS is revived every turn. That helps when you are trying to kill something off and permanently revive that character.

    NS squads often run into a deficit. MT can revive NS. Daka can revive NS. Any NS can revive NS under MT lead. You will see some players not run zombie under MT lead. They hammer offense with other NS. If they have an NS die, it attacks twice as often on revivals (unless a remaining NS is isolated). The NS squad hits harder as it falls. But it becomes a race to kill an opponent character or for Daka to ressurect.

    I don't recall Sion stripping stealth from Acolyte, Leia, or R2? But a stealthed player is subject to AOE damage.

    -No. Acolyte has half the attacks to crit -> half the potential cleanses.

    -In short, it's an accepted nerf.

    I already said that it’s half the revivals. We agree on that.

    Thanks for explaining how NS can win in a losing situation. They basically just revive over and over to overwhelm the enemy and they start to hit harder, but it can be a bit RNG dependent.

    Yes, Sion can strip Stealth from NA, Leia, and R2’s-D2.

    Reread NA’s special ability. It used to attack once, and it still attacks once. It never attacked twice. It used to cleanse one ally when she crit, and it still does. Her special was not changed.

    Yes people accept it as a nerf. I suppose with the fewer potential revives and missing through foresight it can be considered a nerf.

    I will have to follow up on Sion. I don't recall losing stealth on Leia in Phase 2. But she may just re-stealth. I use Spirit in Arena.

    Raid Boss Sion works differently than playable Sion. Playable Sion that you’ll encounter in arena can dispel all of your buffs while Raid Sion can’t. Instead he removes your turn meter.
  • IceHawk117
    36 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Raid Boss Sion works differently than playable Sion. Playable Sion that you’ll encounter in arena can dispel all of your buffs while Raid Sion can’t. Instead he removes your turn meter.

    Makes sense
    Spirit's foresight gets wiped each defender attack and resets each offensive attack.
    Zombie typically has an isolate or fracture.
    But I should have caught it on the off times I run initiate.
  • Still nothing
  • IceHawk117
    36 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    .
    Thank you for the invite Icehawk. I see there's a lot of chatter by a lot of other nabs such as myself. It's good to know I am legion

    I'm glad you got in. It's unfortunate more don't find their way to the NS discord server. As you can see from the volume of content, there are many wonderful players willing to help develop squads. I can't argue that eventually you do want to move on to using Spirit. But I think you summarized it well when you posted:

    "I really did love the occult zombie combo I know [it] got me out of a lot of problems. But it's not the fact that they changed it so much as a fact they said they're not being noticeable difference and there is for me and a lot of players straight across the game."

  • Yesac
    362 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    There was is now a "new" NS comp that does ridiculous damage in p3. There is no way NS aren't getting nerfed now.

    When the infinite loop issue first surfaced, I made a stupid joke about CG needing to nerf the raid so that each player could only do 2% damage. The point I was trying to make is that given time, theory crafters will find ways to do huge damage. The only way to prevent that is to cap a player's allowable contribution.

    CG has made ridiculously powerful toons and factions that if used properly and strategically are capable of doing 8+ mill damage. It seems like Night Sisters (along with RJT) were built specifically to kick Traya's butt.

    Nerf them all, (maybe give us back our zetas) and be done with it.
  • hsof777 wrote: »
    Please try something else. Maybe make assajj lead only give 45% turn meter so you can't go infinite

    Asajjs' lead doesn't give turn meter, and that would only anger more people. A lot of people use her as a leader in arena, such as myself.
  • IE4TAPPL3S wrote: »
    hsof777 wrote: »
    Please try something else. Maybe make assajj lead only give 45% turn meter so you can't go infinite

    Asajjs' lead doesn't give turn meter, and that would only anger more people. A lot of people use her as a leader in arena, such as myself.

    but it does....
  • Ventress Zeta adds this to the leader skill:

    "Nightsisters gain 50% Turn Meter when they fall below 100% Health."
  • Still going with they screwed NS, and they need to fix her.
  • Kailen
    90 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Don't worry. Players have discovered ANOTHER way to let the Nightsisters do big damage in the raid.

    So expect a third nerf incoming. Acolyte and Zombie weren't enough, I expect Talzin's about to be hit with the nerf bad too.

    (Yes, I know, the zombie nerf hasn't gone live yet, nor have they even announced exactly HOW they're going to nerf her. It will be a nerf.)
  • Kailen wrote: »
    Don't worry. Players have discovered ANOTHER way to let the Nightsisters do big damage in the raid.

    So expect a third nerf incoming. Acolyte and Zombie weren't enough, I expect Talzin's about to be hit with the nerf bad too.

    (Yes, I know, the zombie nerf hasn't gone live yet, nor have they even announced exactly HOW they're going to nerf her. It will be a nerf.)

    Shhhh the nerf walls have ears!! Don’t give them any ideas!!
  • Vohbo
    332 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Kailen, it is far better to cripple players and create a negative environment for players than to admit your design is broken and allowing it to die the horrible death it deserves. Right ?
    I hope this new team does not get nerfed, it's the first Phase 3 team ever that is actually FUN.
  • Anrath
    216 posts Member
    The change to Acolyte is a total nerf to both her and the NS lead team around her.

    The very least they could have done was make it so Acolyte wasn't nerfed:

    1) - basic would need to be unavoidable & cause foresight to be * dispelled*
    perhaps at a 50% damage reduction if foresight is dispelled;
    2) - Healing effect also was nerfed (average stayed same but RNG variance increased so her low health and her lower chances to heal *something* has made her more easily killable) so her critical hit chance needs to be increased OR she needs to heal at an increased percentage chance beyond her critical hit chance, to make up for her increased susceptibility to bad RNG now!

    And they still need to refund zetas and G12 pieces that we invested into NS and specifically Ventress, Talzin & Daka and then change Daka's unique zeta to just an omega (perhaps the other 2 toon Uniques need that change too)!

    And after all the above, NS as a team will still be nerfed because of Acolytes lose of 2 attacks and the halfing of the effects it can cause under a Talzin or Ventress lead.

    But if they did the above Acolyte fix, and zeta & gear refund, then at least the player base wouldn't be as outraged still at EA/CG.


    As an aside,
    I keep getting close to spending money on this game, and EA/CG keeps doing stuff like these messed up fixes(nerfs) causing me to thank the gods that I didnt spend the money and re-encouraging me to stay f2p.
  • So @EA_Cian where is anyone at that can shine light on this?
    #ReworkCaptialGamesPeopleSkills #StopIgnoringUsCG #CGCustomerSkillsWeakerThanAnakinsPowerAgainstTheHighGround
  • Kailen wrote: »
    Ventress Zeta adds this to the leader skill:

    "Nightsisters gain 50% Turn Meter when they fall below 100% Health."

    I thought he was talking about the turn meter that's removed lol I'm dumb
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