Preventing Critolyte, Second Pass [MEGA]

Replies

  • @CG_TopHat This is my first forum post but I have been reading the forum since I started. Could I get a clarification on the acolyte change please as I use nightsisters in arena. You say this does not affect her PvP viability but by removing her double attack, as other have said, you are removing her ability to go through forsite and to revive two allies. Are you planing to address this problem before the upcoming change? This significantly reduces her viability and that of Talzin lead zeta!
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Zevox wrote: »
    Glad to see a reasonable solution to the Acolyte/Traya infinite that won't hurt the Nightsisters in the raid in general. Thumbs up there.

    Have to say, slightly worried about the mention that the Daka zeta refund is still on for when the Zombie change happens. That implies that you guys think the change will reduce its usefulness, when what you'd said previously just made me think you were going to try and set things up such that we'd want to gear up Zombie to make her as useful as she currently is at low gear. Guess it's wait and see on that one though.

    This is a great point about the appearance of how we feel the change will go and really appreciate the perspective. We are early enough in the design process for the change to Zombie, that I can't reasonably say what the specifics of what it's going to be. That said, we're keenly aware of the position we've put players in: some players geared her up heavily and now regret it and some players have her under-geared and strategies around her being under-geared.

    For us, the most successful version of the change means that we need to make sure that gearing her up feels awesome and that she still fits in with the core Nightsister team in a way that is either reminiscent of previous strategies or better than previous strategies. Meaning 1) you still always want Zombie in a Nightsister team and 2) that we've respected previous strategies by either keeping them in play or improving on them. Obviously, that's a big bill to fill but we're excited to try to do it right and we're going to try to hit these goals.

    We're offering the Daka Zeta with the update of Zombie because it is a high bar for us to reach. And while we are going to do our best to reach it, we know that some people may still feel that their Daka maybe doesn't have a place in their Nightsister team after the change. And for that, we think it only makes sense to remove the Zeta and return it to the players that no longer want it on Daka. I hope this helps clarify some of our thinking on it.

    TL;DR We don't know what the change looks like. Our goals are to make sure you want to keep the Daka Zeta slotted. We recognized we might not hit the bar and want to offer returning it to players.

    May I suggest to keep maybe a week between changing Zombie's kit and refunding Daka's Zeta? It would be only fair to give the players a chance to test the "new" team in order to make an educated decision about re-Zetaing Daka.
  • Drake23
    866 posts Member
    Sorry but with the change of Nightsister Acolytes Kit her PvP balance is destroyed. Everyone using her will get a lot of problems against enemies with foresign. Her attack will fail and she won't get any stealth. So all of here utility will go directly into the the trash with that change. And this didn't affect only Arena, it's also affecting TW.

    Why not fixing the problem of the raid only in the raid? Why you are giving us a solution that is affecting the main part of this game?
    Drake23, Its a trap
  • flux_rono
    2112 posts Member
    @CG_TopHat i can agree with many people here the acolyte change is both good and bad in there own aspects... why not make the very simple change to asajj's zeta/lead where you can only gain the turn meter one per turn like with Nute Gunrey's lead. doing just that should fix any exploit, i think, plus not change any viability of the characters in any area of the game.
  • Jack92
    179 posts Member
    So from September Acolyte will be useless against foresight, right ?
    Or his only attack in that case bypasses foresight doing half the damage ?

    Cause in that case double attack is very useful and can't be replaced in the same way by the doubled damage.
  • While I might change my mind, I think I agree with the devs on this change. It seems like a decent, small change that will have the smallest impact elsewhere.

    There are some issues, sure:
    - With only 1 attack, she will crit less often. (e.g., she has a 50% crit chance. With 2 attacks, she would crit once 50% of the time; she would crit twice 25% of the time). This changes how she works under Nute lead (75% chance of gaining TM becomes 50% chance) or IG88 lead (50% chance of applying 1 DoT; 25% chance of applying 2 DoTs; 25% chance of applying 0 DoTs becomes a 50% chance of applying 1 DoT; 50% chance of applying 0 DoTs), and that sort of thing.
    - She is more likely to be evaded. With 2 attacks, the 2% base evasion chance becomes 0.04% for her to miss twice. Vs. an evasion leader (+15% evasion, say), with 2 attacks she would miss both attacks 2.25% of the time. That increases to 15% to be evaded with one attack.
    - With 2 attacks, her first attack clears Foresight, and her second attack can hit. With one attack, she doesn't have that ability to "hit through foresight"
    - With 2 attacks, "Blind" would make her miss the first one; not she will miss her only attack.
    - Under Talzin lead, a lot of the above is important: clearing Foresight, and then having the second attack, could make the difference between reviving an ally or not, which in many situations is a game-changer.

    BUT that said, ultimately, I (currently) think that this is probably the best way to fix the issues in the Sith Raid. Those changes above really are not a major nerf, and will cause fewer issues overall than other changes proposed (e.g., changing Isolate vs. Raid Bosses will change how EVERY OTHER TOON that you use with Traya (and not just Traya) works vs. Raid Bosses from this time forward, for all future raids. The change to Acolyte changes how Acolyte works slightly, and changes how SHE works with certain leader abilities (Talzin Nute, IG88, etc). But it DOES NOT change how EVERY OTHER TOON works with acolyte and her mechanics, in all raids, from this time forward.

    So yea, it hurts a bit, but I think it is sensible.


    That all said, @CG_TopHat , PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't ever release a mechanic like Bonds of Weakness ever again. Look at everything that you guys have had to scramble to do (read: nerf) as a result of the Bonds of Weakness mechanic... from nerfing ST Han, to nerfing a huge list of other toons, to finally having to change Acolyte's kit... all because of the Bonds of Weakness mechanic. Bonds of Weakness has been the problem all along, not Acolyte, Traya, Asajj, ST Han, or anyone else. I, for one, would love to see you or someone else acknowledge THAT mistake!
  • I am extremely disappointed in this nerf. NS were messed up from the beginning with a flawed mechanic. I now have a g12 zeta MT Daka and Asajj to go with a g11 aco. This nerf to aco ruins my teams chemistry. I would like a full refund of all 3 zetas and credits and materials. You are changing a team which I only use in TW and TB and making it extremely less effective. As someone who has spent $3k+ on this game over 2.5 years, I am done after this debacle. I feel cheated out of a team that I invested time credits and zetas into. You made a broken raid and are now breaking characters to try to compensate. You should fix the raid instead of characters. Much like thrawn, you just keep fracturing things.
  • One more question: Why it is an exploid if you are able to solo a part of a new raid but it is no exploid if you are able to solo the rancor raid with CLS?
    Drake23, Its a trap
  • Bartek
    116 posts Member
    This fix is much better than the BoW stack limit. Good job! Now about that zombie. CG, when you reworked nightsisters and introduced the Zombie it was obvious from day one that Asajj will keep stacking up her statistics like crazy. Yet you decided that this it the way it meant to be. You cannot just change your mind after so many months! I really don't care about getting the Dakas zeta back. I have heavily invested in this team only for one purpose and that is the Heroic Sith Raid. I know that Nightsisters are useful in other parts of the game but i have other teams for that. Will you give me back Asajj lead, Asajj unique and Mother Talzin unique zeta too? Along with all the G12,5 gear on them? I don't think so.
    You perfectly knew that low geared Zombie has a potential and it was exactly what happened. The only way you could try to make things your way now (not to make it right - because it is right) is to strip Zombie from her abilities, gear and level and return those to the players. Let them decide if they want to gear her up again or remain undergeared.
  • Verror
    18 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    so we can expect now that any team/toon we buy based on its advertised features can be altered afterwards if anything you introduce later conflicts with it.

    Wonder how you would feel if the yellow 200hp car you buy becomes a red 150hp car after two months, because that’s what regularly happens here.

    We spend real money on this game, folks. A lot of money.

  • Ztyle
    1970 posts Member
    I didn't see anyone mention this drawback, under Asajj lead she gets 50% chance of 20% TMR, with her double hit she got that chance twice, making her a really reliable TMR toon, under Asajj, that would also nerfed(along with a lot of other things mentioned here in this thread) by her only hitting once
    I'm Danish , Leader of the Space Slug Alliance , living the SlugLife , My collection
  • Now Acolyte cannot revive 2 allies, she cannot attack with second attack through foresight.
    You must be kidding!
  • Roopehunter
    1188 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    I love how CG claims to ask for oppinion of players, yet seeemingly completely ignores them. There are like 5+ very solid points in this thread already as to why this is a bad change.. How come its going to be the one implemented still?
  • Is it so difficult to simply nerf Traya, which clearly is an unbalanced character? When was the last time you checked the meta report? Almost every arena has its first 10-20 positions locked by the unfair toons you introduced to the game to save it from the death you were about to inflict it for your greed. Do you fear that by nerfing traya people will begin to ignore the sith raid even more than they already do? Why do you have to make us pay for your faults? I sense a lot of fear in the irrational things you are doing to this game.
  • If you are worried that changing zombie might make us take Daka off the night sister team, then what about all the gear we put on Daka? If you're gonna reduce her effectiveness to the point of refunding our zetas, well I'd rather you refund the gear

    LOL dude don't say that terrible word ("refund"), they'll get triggered and warn you in the absolute fear that you spread the word and that people learn how to get their money back
  • Idk she just became about .2% more dmg on my rolo p3 team AND I keep NS on p4, I'm cool with that. I dont use her on pvp other than TW so maybe that's why I'm not as mad.
  • Y'all are missing that this change makes acolyte better against nest! Yay!
  • Some really good points being brought up in this thread. I think while you're taking the time to do this right, you might want to run them thru the 'ol playtester machine first before going ahead with the current plan.

    Personally, BoW seems to be the loop issue since this is not the first (or second or third or fourth) character change due to the interaction of BoW.

    I'm just sayin'
  • All they have to do is keep the original fix, but set the BOW limit at 70 or 80. Critolyte finished, nothing else affected.
  • I think that fix zombie it’s the good choice. Actually, it is the only toon in the game (out of 158) that it’s stronger ungeared than geared. It is actually broken. In respect of those who invest gearing this toon, they have to fix this. The only error they make is to not fix it at the beginning. SWGOH is an app that are so complex and really well build. Comparing to many many app of this type, swgoh is very well balanced and i can only say a big thanks to all swgoh dev team. I’m sur they will find a way to fix zombie correctly.
  • You know the easiest solution would have been at like 40-50 stacks, to just make them all immune to damage with a buff that wouldnt go away until you cleansed....

    ~D
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    dominiQC wrote: »
    Seems like a reasonable change. It's giving her a higher stealth chance and a larger heal when she crits, making it even more difficult to defeat her with AoEs while stealthed. I like it.

    She had 2x 70% chance. How is that greater than 1x 90%?

    She had 2x 20% heal. How is that greater than 40%?

    Now she can't revive or be assisted by 2 dead nightsisters at once. She can't hit through foresight.

    How is this great? It's bad. Really bad.

    Good, good...
  • @CG_TopHat Just leave the Zombie alone. If the issue is people who overgeared her before realizing that she could be equally useful at low power, just refund everyone's gear and set her back to G1. If you can refund zeta mats from Daka because people think she'll be less useful, you can just mass change all Zombies to G1, return the materials and credits used, and let people choose which type of Zombie they want.
    Go Pens!
  • Jefferx
    361 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    @CG_TopHat Just leave the Zombie alone. If the issue is people who overgeared her before realizing that she could be equally useful at low power, just refund everyone's gear and set her back to G1. If you can refund zeta mats from Daka because people think she'll be less useful, you can just mass change all Zombies to G1, return the materials and credits used, and let people choose which type of Zombie they want.

    It’s a good idea but work only for one time only. You know it’s not every player that are actually going to forum and see video. How will you prevent new player to not gear them once you payback everybody and refund all gear allowed to zombie.
  • flux_rono wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat i can agree with many people here the acolyte change is both good and bad in there own aspects... why not make the very simple change to asajj's zeta/lead where you can only gain the turn meter one per turn like with Nute Gunrey's lead. doing just that should fix any exploit, i think, plus not change any viability of the characters in any area of the game.

    Disagree, this would annihilate the NS team in the raid.
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