Preventing Critolyte, Second Pass [MEGA]

Replies

  • Options
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    I don't care about NS user. Good job CG.

    You have been promoting the NS Nerfs posting stuff like the above.

    FYI Some players don't have Talzin and Zombie to 7* yet. In addition -

    Acolyte is used in ARENA and one may argue Arena Credits are the real lifeblood of the game so a nerf to NS vs Rey teams and Jedi teams with all their evasion would severely hurt the NS arena teams.

    Nute and Acolyte is used in TW, its one of TI's "best in the game" TW Offense teams.

    My suggestion of removing health steal up from ONLY the sith raid fixes the loop interaction with BONDS OF WEAKNESS. while leaving all other characters alone.

    Devs can keep health steal up in every other mode as long as they don't introduce another BONDS of WEAKNESS to interact with teams like NS and Health steal up.

    No Health Steal up in HSTR and everything works out fine. Hundreds of thousands even millions of NS users are not impacted at all. Devs can keep Health Steal up in every other game mode and on new characters. The problem interaction is with Bonds of Weakness and Health Steal up on a fundamental level.

    No again. Maybe they wanna keep it, because Nihilus ignores protection and otherwise you need a healer...? They wan't destroy every team comp for the future, because of acolyte.

    HEALTH STEAL, like what Rey teams do in P1, works even without HEALTH STEAL UP. They are 2 completely separate abilities FYI.

    HEALTH STEAL UP is a special ability that grants bonus Healing, in addition to the normal healing. This bonus healing is what causes the loop. It can be turned off for Sith raid and no kits need to be changed.

    Not every team is Rey. Most characters health steal isn't enough to heal up from Nihilus dmg. That's why they keep it.

    The keep Health Steal Up available in Phase 1 & 2 only. The only loop is when Health Steal UP is used with Bonds of Weakness. Removing Health Steal Up for P3 and P4 of Sith Raid fixes the loop without needing any kits reworked.
  • Random9
    510 posts Member
    Options
    As Justin_Case1 said "In my experience using NS in arena is that she needs both attacks(while stealthed) one to break foresight and one to actually do damage." and as Obi1_son said "So with this change you have lowered the usefulness on MT's lead zeta as you now cannot res 2 characters with one attack. Can I get that zeta refunded???? "
    You can go ahead and refund all gears/ zetas that i've put on any of my NS in the past 8 months because thats how long i've used Acolyte in my arena team and you're changing all of the benefits of her double attack.
    Acolyte has been around for over the 2 years that i've been playing, Trayas been around for 6 months now....so lets change the character thats been around longer instead of the one A LOT less people have. Makes sense!

    @EtchaSketch Traya is going to be the meta for a long time. Night sisters are a thing of the past. Why would they change the current and future meta instead of a past meta that barely works anymore? It happens, things get nerfed or the meta changes and the gear you invested loses value. That’s a fact if playing this game and you just need to deal with it. PS, it’s fewer people not less people
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
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    Random9 wrote: »
    As Justin_Case1 said "In my experience using NS in arena is that she needs both attacks(while stealthed) one to break foresight and one to actually do damage." and as Obi1_son said "So with this change you have lowered the usefulness on MT's lead zeta as you now cannot res 2 characters with one attack. Can I get that zeta refunded???? "
    You can go ahead and refund all gears/ zetas that i've put on any of my NS in the past 8 months because thats how long i've used Acolyte in my arena team and you're changing all of the benefits of her double attack.
    Acolyte has been around for over the 2 years that i've been playing, Trayas been around for 6 months now....so lets change the character thats been around longer instead of the one A LOT less people have. Makes sense!

    @EtchaSketch Traya is going to be the meta for a long time. Night sisters are a thing of the past. Why would they change the current and future meta instead of a past meta that barely works anymore? It happens, things get nerfed or the meta changes and the gear you invested loses value. That’s a fact if playing this game and you just need to deal with it. PS, it’s fewer people not less people

    Nobody has suggested anything that in any way affects Treya being arena meta. Her isolate has a completely different set of effects on raids as it does in arena. That's what created the problem. And it's just now been discovered since she's just recently been 7* by top raid finishers.

    Meanwhile nearly every guild we've face at the higher end of TW uses Acolyte on offense to take out a vital, foundation defense team that everyone uses. This change would destroy that to preserve a raid mechanic that has nothing to do with Treya being meta, and has only been exploited for a matter of days.
  • Options
    There is a much simpler solution to the problem.

    First for Acoylyte.
    Characters: attack again if stealthed
    Raid bosses:do double damage if stealthed.

    Second regarding zombie:
    Simply add that death of an allied zombie who is more than 12 gear pieces behind doesn't trigger the effect. That way a Max gear six star zombie will work with g12+3 daka and assaj, but a paper zombie won't.

    I have spent over a thousand on this game. And if they destroy my nightsisters I am going to be looking to Google for refund.
  • Options
    Maybe someone already mentioned this, but the way to fix this is to have Acolyte attack again if she is evaded and give her a 50% chance to reduce 20% tm on her basic which can’t be resisted. That should do it. Everyone will be happy. Right?
  • Options
    Hi CG, so far you have gotten horrible feedback for doing this, and some people have even left the game. Do the right thing, you said you're listening to us, prove it.
  • Options
    People spent MONEY on these characters guys. Some spent hundreds some thousands. Some players are already burnt out and this is the tipping point for many.
  • Rebmes
    376 posts Member
    Options
    I feel like I have to butt in here. Well done with the revised change CG, a surgical strike where one was definitely needed. I have NS and sad it won't be as powerful in phase 3 / 4 of the raid, but FROM THE BEGINNING that I realized this loop was happening with Acolyte, it felt wrong. I used it, sure, but it was obviously not intended that Acolyte could take 20, 30 turns in a row (in standard NS team).

    So thank you and don't take all this flaming to heart, something had to be done and I fail to see how you could have done it any better.
  • Options
    Rebmes wrote: »
    I feel like I have to butt in here. Well done with the revised change CG, a surgical strike where one was definitely needed. I have NS and sad it won't be as powerful in phase 3 / 4 of the raid, but FROM THE BEGINNING that I realized this loop was happening with Acolyte, it felt wrong. I used it, sure, but it was obviously not intended that Acolyte could take 20, 30 turns in a row (in standard NS team).

    So thank you and don't take all this flaming to heart, something had to be done and I fail to see how you could have done it any better.

    Wat? Dude chill lol
  • Options
    @CG_TopHat might I suggest a very easy fix? Instead of health steal on raid bosses, why not simply change it to crit damage up? Or offense up? It’s the easiest fix and doesn’t mess with other aspects of the game. The new change still feels like a nerf to the overall mechanics of the NS faction where people have spent ALOT of money in them.
  • Options
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    I don't care about NS user. Good job CG.

    You have been promoting the NS Nerfs posting stuff like the above.

    FYI Some players don't have Talzin and Zombie to 7* yet. In addition -

    Acolyte is used in ARENA and one may argue Arena Credits are the real lifeblood of the game so a nerf to NS vs Rey teams and Jedi teams with all their evasion would severely hurt the NS arena teams.

    Nute and Acolyte is used in TW, its one of TI's "best in the game" TW Offense teams.

    My suggestion of removing health steal up from ONLY the sith raid fixes the loop interaction with BONDS OF WEAKNESS. while leaving all other characters alone.

    Devs can keep health steal up in every other mode as long as they don't introduce another BONDS of WEAKNESS to interact with teams like NS and Health steal up.

    No Health Steal up in HSTR and everything works out fine. Hundreds of thousands even millions of NS users are not impacted at all. Devs can keep Health Steal up in every other game mode and on new characters. The problem interaction is with Bonds of Weakness and Health Steal up on a fundamental level.

    No again. Maybe they wanna keep it, because Nihilus ignores protection and otherwise you need a healer...? They wan't destroy every team comp for the future, because of acolyte.

    HEALTH STEAL, like what Rey teams do in P1, works even without HEALTH STEAL UP. They are 2 completely separate abilities FYI.

    HEALTH STEAL UP is a special ability that grants bonus Healing, in addition to the normal healing. This bonus healing is what causes the loop. It can be turned off for Sith raid and no kits need to be changed.

    Not every team is Rey. Most characters health steal isn't enough to heal up from Nihilus dmg. That's why they keep it.

    The keep Health Steal Up available in Phase 1 & 2 only. The only loop is when Health Steal UP is used with Bonds of Weakness. Removing Health Steal Up for P3 and P4 of Sith Raid fixes the loop without needing any kits reworked.

    Special rules for Buffs in raids sounds as annoying as it is.
    They now found a way with less outrage then before, so that kit rework will stay I guess.
    Before they nerfed exectly that NS that everyone farmed for hsith. Now they only changing acolyte and a few people in hear still complain, but not really a big deal for most of us.

    When faced with a fix that effects hundreds of thousands of players EA CG should do whats least annoying for you, since you say NERF ALL NS USERS GOOD your opinion is valued more we don't want to "annoy" you with leaving their kits alone AND fixing the raid because that would be annoying to you. lol what a troll do you work for CG or something?
  • Options
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    I don't care about NS user. Good job CG.

    You have been promoting the NS Nerfs posting stuff like the above.

    FYI Some players don't have Talzin and Zombie to 7* yet. In addition -

    Acolyte is used in ARENA and one may argue Arena Credits are the real lifeblood of the game so a nerf to NS vs Rey teams and Jedi teams with all their evasion would severely hurt the NS arena teams.

    Nute and Acolyte is used in TW, its one of TI's "best in the game" TW Offense teams.

    My suggestion of removing health steal up from ONLY the sith raid fixes the loop interaction with BONDS OF WEAKNESS. while leaving all other characters alone.

    Devs can keep health steal up in every other mode as long as they don't introduce another BONDS of WEAKNESS to interact with teams like NS and Health steal up.

    No Health Steal up in HSTR and everything works out fine. Hundreds of thousands even millions of NS users are not impacted at all. Devs can keep Health Steal up in every other game mode and on new characters. The problem interaction is with Bonds of Weakness and Health Steal up on a fundamental level.

    No again. Maybe they wanna keep it, because Nihilus ignores protection and otherwise you need a healer...? They wan't destroy every team comp for the future, because of acolyte.

    HEALTH STEAL, like what Rey teams do in P1, works even without HEALTH STEAL UP. They are 2 completely separate abilities FYI.

    HEALTH STEAL UP is a special ability that grants bonus Healing, in addition to the normal healing. This bonus healing is what causes the loop. It can be turned off for Sith raid and no kits need to be changed.

    Not every team is Rey. Most characters health steal isn't enough to heal up from Nihilus dmg. That's why they keep it.

    The keep Health Steal Up available in Phase 1 & 2 only. The only loop is when Health Steal UP is used with Bonds of Weakness. Removing Health Steal Up for P3 and P4 of Sith Raid fixes the loop without needing any kits reworked.

    Special rules for Buffs in raids sounds as annoying as it is.
    They now found a way with less outrage then before, so that kit rework will stay I guess.
    Before they nerfed exectly that NS that everyone farmed for hsith. Now they only changing acolyte and a few people in hear still complain, but not really a big deal for most of us.

    When faced with a fix that effects hundreds of thousands of players EA CG should do whats least annoying for you, since you say NERF ALL NS USERS GOOD your opinion is valued more we don't want to "annoy" you with leaving their kits alone AND fixing the raid because that would be annoying to you. lol what a troll do you work for CG or something?

    Nerf all NS users sounds great.
    It's the biggest cheese faction we have in the game. If you guy's play NS in arena, or the other nute/acolyte/zombie cheese, you deserve that nerf. And if you need acolyte for the sith raid, you farmed the wrong NS team.

    ID.10.T. - any fool that can't dissect a problem to it's root.
    Selfish.- any fool that can't see beyond his own desires.

    Zombie is the key to the NS "cheese". Not Acolyte. Zombie isn't what's being discussed for the VAST majority of this thread, because they're not changing Zombie yet. They're changing Acolyte.

    They're making changes that are unnecessary, that have a broader scope than needs be fixed, to protect something that was broken when they launched it, that provides access to not only a meta changing toon but to elite gear pieces not found anywhere else.





  • Options
    Nerfing existing toons is the surest path to the dark side. It should be avoided in all but the most blatant and dire of circumstances. It is the fastest way to alienate a player base (I'm looking at you Tie Reaper) and sow the seeds of distrust between that base and the developer.

    Tread very carefully, as the health of this title is at risk (Ships 2.0, STR raid rewards, G12+ raid rewards, TB platoon money grabs, heck even hard-node attempts).
  • Dralkyr
    457 posts Member
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    rjc9906 wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    I don't care about NS user. Good job CG.

    You have been promoting the NS Nerfs posting stuff like the above.

    FYI Some players don't have Talzin and Zombie to 7* yet. In addition -

    Acolyte is used in ARENA and one may argue Arena Credits are the real lifeblood of the game so a nerf to NS vs Rey teams and Jedi teams with all their evasion would severely hurt the NS arena teams.

    Nute and Acolyte is used in TW, its one of TI's "best in the game" TW Offense teams.

    My suggestion of removing health steal up from ONLY the sith raid fixes the loop interaction with BONDS OF WEAKNESS. while leaving all other characters alone.

    Devs can keep health steal up in every other mode as long as they don't introduce another BONDS of WEAKNESS to interact with teams like NS and Health steal up.

    No Health Steal up in HSTR and everything works out fine. Hundreds of thousands even millions of NS users are not impacted at all. Devs can keep Health Steal up in every other game mode and on new characters. The problem interaction is with Bonds of Weakness and Health Steal up on a fundamental level.

    No again. Maybe they wanna keep it, because Nihilus ignores protection and otherwise you need a healer...? They wan't destroy every team comp for the future, because of acolyte.

    HEALTH STEAL, like what Rey teams do in P1, works even without HEALTH STEAL UP. They are 2 completely separate abilities FYI.

    HEALTH STEAL UP is a special ability that grants bonus Healing, in addition to the normal healing. This bonus healing is what causes the loop. It can be turned off for Sith raid and no kits need to be changed.

    Not every team is Rey. Most characters health steal isn't enough to heal up from Nihilus dmg. That's why they keep it.

    The keep Health Steal Up available in Phase 1 & 2 only. The only loop is when Health Steal UP is used with Bonds of Weakness. Removing Health Steal Up for P3 and P4 of Sith Raid fixes the loop without needing any kits reworked.

    Special rules for Buffs in raids sounds as annoying as it is.
    They now found a way with less outrage then before, so that kit rework will stay I guess.
    Before they nerfed exectly that NS that everyone farmed for hsith. Now they only changing acolyte and a few people in hear still complain, but not really a big deal for most of us.

    When faced with a fix that effects hundreds of thousands of players EA CG should do whats least annoying for you, since you say NERF ALL NS USERS GOOD your opinion is valued more we don't want to "annoy" you with leaving their kits alone AND fixing the raid because that would be annoying to you. lol what a troll do you work for CG or something?

    Nerf all NS users sounds great.
    It's the biggest cheese faction we have in the game. If you guy's play NS in arena, or the other nute/acolyte/zombie cheese, you deserve that nerf. And if you need acolyte for the sith raid, you farmed the wrong NS team.

    ID.10.T. - any fool that can't dissect a problem to it's root.
    Selfish.- any fool that can't see beyond his own desires.

    Zombie is the key to the NS "cheese". Not Acolyte. Zombie isn't what's being discussed for the VAST majority of this thread, because they're not changing Zombie yet. They're changing Acolyte.

    They're making changes that are unnecessary, that have a broader scope than needs be fixed, to protect something that was broken when they launched it, that provides access to not only a meta changing toon but to elite gear pieces not found anywhere else.

    Absolutely. As someone who doesn't run NS (I was building my team to get and gear CLS when NS was being reworked), I don't like this change. I recognize the actually nerfing this does and, though I am not personally impacted (well that's not quite true - I'll probably be able to beat NS teams easier now!), it nevertheless sets a worrying precedent that anything introduced to the game can be changed to drastically reduce usefulness if it interacts with EA:CG's precious new end-game content in unexpected ways.
    Fix the raid, don't break this team.
  • Options
    Dralkyr wrote: »
    rjc9906 wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    DarthLBC wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    I don't care about NS user. Good job CG.

    You have been promoting the NS Nerfs posting stuff like the above.

    FYI Some players don't have Talzin and Zombie to 7* yet. In addition -

    Acolyte is used in ARENA and one may argue Arena Credits are the real lifeblood of the game so a nerf to NS vs Rey teams and Jedi teams with all their evasion would severely hurt the NS arena teams.

    Nute and Acolyte is used in TW, its one of TI's "best in the game" TW Offense teams.

    My suggestion of removing health steal up from ONLY the sith raid fixes the loop interaction with BONDS OF WEAKNESS. while leaving all other characters alone.

    Devs can keep health steal up in every other mode as long as they don't introduce another BONDS of WEAKNESS to interact with teams like NS and Health steal up.

    No Health Steal up in HSTR and everything works out fine. Hundreds of thousands even millions of NS users are not impacted at all. Devs can keep Health Steal up in every other game mode and on new characters. The problem interaction is with Bonds of Weakness and Health Steal up on a fundamental level.

    No again. Maybe they wanna keep it, because Nihilus ignores protection and otherwise you need a healer...? They wan't destroy every team comp for the future, because of acolyte.

    HEALTH STEAL, like what Rey teams do in P1, works even without HEALTH STEAL UP. They are 2 completely separate abilities FYI.

    HEALTH STEAL UP is a special ability that grants bonus Healing, in addition to the normal healing. This bonus healing is what causes the loop. It can be turned off for Sith raid and no kits need to be changed.

    Not every team is Rey. Most characters health steal isn't enough to heal up from Nihilus dmg. That's why they keep it.

    The keep Health Steal Up available in Phase 1 & 2 only. The only loop is when Health Steal UP is used with Bonds of Weakness. Removing Health Steal Up for P3 and P4 of Sith Raid fixes the loop without needing any kits reworked.

    Special rules for Buffs in raids sounds as annoying as it is.
    They now found a way with less outrage then before, so that kit rework will stay I guess.
    Before they nerfed exectly that NS that everyone farmed for hsith. Now they only changing acolyte and a few people in hear still complain, but not really a big deal for most of us.

    When faced with a fix that effects hundreds of thousands of players EA CG should do whats least annoying for you, since you say NERF ALL NS USERS GOOD your opinion is valued more we don't want to "annoy" you with leaving their kits alone AND fixing the raid because that would be annoying to you. lol what a troll do you work for CG or something?

    Nerf all NS users sounds great.
    It's the biggest cheese faction we have in the game. If you guy's play NS in arena, or the other nute/acolyte/zombie cheese, you deserve that nerf. And if you need acolyte for the sith raid, you farmed the wrong NS team.

    ID.10.T. - any fool that can't dissect a problem to it's root.
    Selfish.- any fool that can't see beyond his own desires.

    Zombie is the key to the NS "cheese". Not Acolyte. Zombie isn't what's being discussed for the VAST majority of this thread, because they're not changing Zombie yet. They're changing Acolyte.

    They're making changes that are unnecessary, that have a broader scope than needs be fixed, to protect something that was broken when they launched it, that provides access to not only a meta changing toon but to elite gear pieces not found anywhere else.

    Absolutely. As someone who doesn't run NS (I was building my team to get and gear CLS when NS was being reworked), I don't like this change. I recognize the actually nerfing this does and, though I am not personally impacted (well that's not quite true - I'll probably be able to beat NS teams easier now!), it nevertheless sets a worrying precedent that anything introduced to the game can be changed to drastically reduce usefulness if it interacts with EA:CG's precious new end-game content in unexpected ways.
    Fix the raid, don't break this team.

    Exactly
  • EAS
    89 posts Member
    Options
    is really this change coming? what about foresight enemies? now will dodge acolytes attacks when before was the way to do some damage using her?

    this is not good... at all.

    we are getting sick of this nerfs (as said above ..."reaper" for example).

    i dont know how much you want to squeeze the golden eggs chicken.
  • Options
    Umm, you guys notice how these devs start these conversations, then slip out the back without another word? Where they go? @CG_TopHat @CG_SBCrumb
  • DemonR
    68 posts Member
    Options
    Not sure where else we would expect customer service to ignore six pages of conplaints. Its almost like they have no respect for us and just want us to shut up and give them money?
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    Can you guys please say something??? @CG_TopHat @CG_SBCrumb this still isn't what we want...change the raid not NS.
  • Options
    We dropped money on these characters you cannot change their kits even in the slightest...it's not right.
  • Ely
    161 posts Member
    Options
    Instead of refunding Daka zeta, why not just give back the gear on zombie? The people who geared her that think they are missing out can try the undergeared zombie and see if they like it better.

    The acolyte change is okay for this team but have you tested it under other leads to see the impact it will have there? (Nute lead for example) @CG_TopHat
  • thatguy181
    128 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Options
    I still think you should have adjusted it so that after Traya has X number of stacks, she inflicts healing/buff/TM penalties on the raid. After X number of stacks, all allies gain 100% TM per additional stack, etc. Sure you have to find the "right" number or you could just say "You know what? We envisioned you clearing her around 20, any team that can last beyond that is going against the spirit of what we intended for the raid so this adjustment brings the raid back into the place we envisioned." I'm not saying 20 is the right spot, just throwing a value out there. Point is, you can fix the raid without adjusting a character. I don't even have the character as I'm relatively new to the game still, but this feels like the wrong choice to me and I wanted to voice my concern.

    Fix the raid and you have the raid fixed without potentially messing up ANY strategy used by the players in OTHER areas. Many people have already pointed out how the old double attack was infinitely more useful than a single double damage attack, especially against people with the Foresight buff.

    Obviously you have to fix the problem area, infinite loop, auto basic through 1 and 1/3 phases of your hardest raid is obviously unacceptable, but adjusting character kits vs fixing the NEW problem area that's causing you to pull your hair out seems like a poor way to go about it.

    Ignore the knuckleheads complaining about your incoming zombie changes. Anyone with half a brain should realize that no toon should be BETTER when they're less geared.
  • Options
    It seems a lot easier to justify making paper zombie less useful, since you're not devaluing existing investments (as you would by changing the behavior of a highly geared and possibly zeta'd toon).
  • Options
    And then nothing.
    So blind to their own broken raid, they're legit going to tear everything else down around it as they stumble about.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • Viserys
    461 posts Member
    Options
    It seems a lot easier to justify making paper zombie less useful, since you're not devaluing existing investments (as you would by changing the behavior of a highly geared and possibly zeta'd toon).

    Well the whole problem is that if G12 zombie can't do what we use paper zombie for, it devalues the investment in the other four characters on the team. It was clearly a design intent for zombie dying to feed the team, they just need to make G12 zombie as good or better at dying than G2 zombie.
  • ThePegasus1979
    19 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Options
    A better but still trashy try to, instead of showing balls and finally admit that Sithraid has massive fundamental flaws, fix crap by nerfing the next char.

    I can only recommond everyone who does not agree to this change as well as to a planned Zombie change: don‘t just post in the forums, but go to your corresponding app store (Google Play / Apple App Store) and give the game 1 out of 5 stars with a „nice“ feedback. Will have way more effect than any forum thingy.
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