Thank you. Have to be honest my guild is working up the ranks and it is getting VERY tedious. I almost have to beg my guild mates to keep hitting the raid. People are losing interest and none of us want that.
Sounds great, just one question: What took so long?
I'm thinking the same thing and my guess is they are waiting to see whether people actually vote with their wallet and time or just plain whining and noise.
When many people lost interest in this game because of STR and spend less time/ money or leave game to certain statistical level and then their lead producers take action.
How about until these changes are made we all get flat raid rewards from whatever tier we are currently completing twice a week without having to play the raid. I'm always top 3 in t5 and have almost stopped playing it altogether. My guild is 110 gp and could complete it in 2-3 days but since no one wants to do it, it takes 5-6 days. I feel like this is the only way to make up for the time, effort and agony we all have endured over this raid.
I dont understand why heroic rewards for ranks 11-50 arent being improved.
The removal g12 full piece chances is rudiculously brutal considering how little salvage you get. Several guildmates are becoming dispirited by how much effort they put in for so little compared to top 10.
Just add the chance for a full g12 piece, the left side pieces back to the lower ranks. I rank top 3 everytime, and its absurd how much more loot i recieve than the guy in 11th.
I dont understand why heroic rewards for ranks 11-50 arent being improved.
The removal g12 full piece chances is rudiculously brutal considering how little salvage you get. Several guildmates are becoming dispirited by how much effort they put in for so little compared to top 10.
Just add the chance for a full g12 piece, the left side pieces back to the lower ranks. I rank top 3 everytime, and its absurd how much more loot i recieve than the guy in 11th.
80M GP guild here. We do tier 4 and an occasional tier 5. It takes us around 3 days to complete tier 4. Although we usually have more than 45 players in our roster, we don't have a lot of well geared players.
I like the proposed changes, but to really help they have to go far enough. Boss's HP reduction needs to be really significant to make a difference. Keep in mind that % health attacks will loose their effectiveness.
Gear drops should be significantly increased as well. I'm not asking for full GL12 pieces here - those should be reserved for Heroic only, *maybe* tier 6, but GL9/10/11 salvage should be really abundant. Tier 4 rewards should not be worse than Rancor Heroic rewards that a lot of us can solo on auto. Right now we basically do Heroic Rancor / HAAT to get gear to progress to the next tier of STR. It doesn't feel right.
As others have mentioned, it may be a good idea to split the proposed changes into stages. Adding better rewards can't possibly be complicated, and so it should be done ASAP. You can then reduce bosses' HP to makes things go faster as you test whatever other changes you have planned.
+1
The health pool reduction will also need to be quite massive to bring completion time down to 2ish days from the week+ guilds face of they do the maximum tier they meet the minimum requirements for (especially in the case of tier 1-3 where they'll be lucky to have mediocre mods if they have mods unlocked at all)
A key point of that testing imo needs to be "is the health pool low enough to complete the raid in 2 days if I literally don't have any of the toons much less teams needed for t7" (or essentially "is the health pool low enough that a guild will finish the raid in 2 days even with absolutely no toons that have the kit needed to counter the boss mechanics") if that test isn't passed the health needs to keep getting reduced until the test is passed. Nothing less than that will get the desired results.
I foresee we reduced the health by 10% and increased the protection regen by 150% and turn meter gain by 25% to even the playing field . Also it will now cost you energy for each squad used multiplying with each character death in raids.Because they can’t just give us the basics like with mod load outs.
The announced changes sound good of course!
My question is about health pool reduction: it must be a relevant percentage to be significant! (50%? 30%? 20%?..... I don't know but please don't come to us with a 0,1%-1% health pool reduction!!!!!!!)
They need to start with 50% reduction and go up from there to even begin putting the raid tiers within spitting distance of their listed minimum requirements. Like even with 0 rng the current health pool is so massive + all the non rng mechanics it would take 2 weeks or more for a tier 1 1* team to beat it.
I dont understand why heroic rewards for ranks 11-50 arent being improved.
The removal g12 full piece chances is rudiculously brutal considering how little salvage you get. Several guildmates are becoming dispirited by how much effort they put in for so little compared to top 10.
Just add the chance for a full g12 piece, the left side pieces back to the lower ranks. I rank top 3 everytime, and its absurd how much more loot i recieve than the guy in 11th.
It's psychology , for every 10 players that complain 1 quits and 9 spend. Greater return on investment, however you can only manage to get those 9 to spend for so long and that's where the game starts. How many do they let go and what time frame until that happens is the real calculation. If the threshold is say stop at 4 players left you've got to figure out how long those other 5 will stay on the carousel before leaving. Theres an entire team set to these mobile games and also console and "spin to win" video arcades all across the world now. Companies pay huge for that kind of spending habit data. You didn't really think "rng" was real did you? They let set the parameters of that rng, so that 33% chance for a shard on energy drop is really 33% each time its rolled not "well I'll roll 4 and I should be guaranteed 1. They know you think this way. The point I'm trying to make is not whether the company does it or doesnt. Are you willing to pay for what you perceive the entrainment value to be. I spend occasionally, why because I'm not 20 years old and can sit around and grind things out, I travel for work 80+ hours a week and have no access to games besides mobile. Marquee packs, those are my expansion packs, gear 12 well yup those toons I've got over a years worth of entertainment and will continue to have them long after 5 console games have been traded in. I dont buy everything but I've dropped more than I care to admit. Heck if revan comes as a 5* unlock .buying all the kotor toons to 5* just to have him.
What you see above is the STR Tier 4 description. My advice to the developers is to create a guild, populate it with characters matching above description and complete tier 4 of this raid themselves.
When you are done four weeks from now and half of your people have rage quit, then you go back to the drawing board and figure out the raid parameters. I suspect that you mostly tested the heroic tier. But most of your player base isn't there and won't be there for a while.
*Forgot to add - and after all that effort you'll get the rewards, that's when the remaining half will rage quit.
A lot of the guilds I have talked to view this as the last chance to get this raid right. If not, it will be the final push to move on. A lot is riding on this in their eyes.
I dont understand why heroic rewards for ranks 11-50 arent being improved.
The removal g12 full piece chances is rudiculously brutal considering how little salvage you get. Several guildmates are becoming dispirited by how much effort they put in for so little compared to top 10.
Just add the chance for a full g12 piece, the left side pieces back to the lower ranks. I rank top 3 everytime, and its absurd how much more loot i recieve than the guy in 11th.
It’s pretty simple. Creating an incentive to finish top 10 in the raid keeps whale guilds competing amongst themselves and spending money.
the raid should be taken out until it's fixed. It's also very frustrating when time and resources get spent fixing things that make the raid easier and not on what would make the raid better. Ns nerf and critolyte debacle, st Han which led to 50 toons getting nerfed, others also I'm sure. I don't feel any 1 event should ever affect characters kits or effectiveness overall. Fix what's broken and stop just changing everything around it
Anyone else notice that the prize boxes for the top 3 spots in heroic will typically give out worse gear than the prize boxes for spots 4-10? I had been noticing this, and recently other people in my guild mentioned they thought this also. Is this intended or are we all just experiencing the same bad RNG.
What you see above is the STR Tier 4 description. My advice to the developers is to create a guild, populate it with characters matching above description and complete tier 4 of this raid themselves.
When you are done four weeks from now and half of your people have rage quit, then you go back to the drawing board and figure out the raid parameters. I suspect that you mostly tested the heroic tier. But most of your player base isn't there and won't be there for a while.
*Forgot to add - and after all that effort you'll get the rewards, that's when the remaining half will rage quit.
+1
if my guild that had hpit on farm can't blitz tier 4 in 30 minutes with g11/12 fully modded toons the health pool is still to high because
1)you literally cannot use jtr and therefore inherently don't have access to the only good phase 1 team
2) your mods are basically going to be garbage you just started getting
3)full guild participation isn't required
And this is the big one
4)g12 toons should not feel like they're ineffective against a boss "balanced" for toons 2 stars lower & 4 full gear levels lower.
Can we please add a chance for some full g12 pieces for like top 25 at least? It’s a little ridiculous the difference between top 10 and 11-50. Why the heck should top get get chances at both g12 and g12+ gear?
I feel that the most important thing in this update isnt the content, which is a step in the right direction of course.
For me the important bit was the original announcement set a timeframe of a couple of weeks ish, then in the timeframe an update was provided, thank you for that.
I am currently passified.. thank you for communicating.
Can we please add a chance for some full g12 pieces for like top 25 at least? It’s a little ridiculous the difference between top 10 and 11-50. Why the heck should top get get chances at both g12 and g12+ gear?
yeah it's ridiculous. All spots should be able to get the same rewards. Just give the higher ranks a higher % chance to get full pieces.
What would really be nice is to base the gear rewards on score brackets instead of rank and only base the amount of shards on ranks as they do now. In our guild ATM your ns run in p4 mostly decides whether you get top10 or not and sometimes the difference between 10th and 11th is less than 10k points.
What you see above is the STR Tier 4 description. My advice to the developers is to create a guild, populate it with characters matching above description and complete tier 4 of this raid themselves.
When you are done four weeks from now and half of your people have rage quit, then you go back to the drawing board and figure out the raid parameters. I suspect that you mostly tested the heroic tier. But most of your player base isn't there and won't be there for a while.
*Forgot to add - and after all that effort you'll get the rewards, that's when the remaining half will rage quit.
I would say 2 weeks just to get Nihilus down on T4 with this level of characters.
Is there a timeframe in which these changes are expected to go live?
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What you see above is the STR Tier 4 description. My advice to the developers is to create a guild, populate it with characters matching above description and complete tier 4 of this raid themselves.
When you are done four weeks from now and half of your people have rage quit, then you go back to the drawing board and figure out the raid parameters. I suspect that you mostly tested the heroic tier. But most of your player base isn't there and won't be there for a while.
*Forgot to add - and after all that effort you'll get the rewards, that's when the remaining half will rage quit.
Or just change the description, to match the requirements, instead of changing the raid to match a text field?
Also, the requirements are broken peetty much everywhere in the game, assault battles, legendaries, other events.. My theory is that because CG does not test any of these before rolling out, so naturally they have no idea of the real requirements. (and are lacking quality workers, to revisit even afterwards.)
Why just don't give same reward for all guild?
For STR, the participation of every member is require to success... the top 10 will not success if they are only 10 to participate et the raid!
I would say 2 weeks just to get Nihilus down on T4 with this level of characters.
Maybe without focused rosters but it can be done in far less than a week if all of the 40+ members have lvl 80 G10 Deathtrooper, Thrawn and at least one or two multi hit toons (Sabine, Ezra, Rey, Leia, etc.), which works reasonbly well in Phase 1.
The question is do they want to adjust the boss health to a level at which several teams are viable and it is not just all about Deathtrooper or RJT. Just compare the damage of something like Boba(L), DT, Thrawn, Ezra and a Healer as a somewhat specialized squad versus Wiggs Rebels as a standard high damage squad. The difference in damage at similiar mod and gear levels will be at least a factor of 2 at T4 and probably 3 at T5. It has been mentioned already that reducing the health will directly affect the damage from Deathmark or Expose. If those squads are used by several players I assume that a 20% reduction in health would translate to something like being 15% faster through that phase at best, which would be barely noticeable. Hence, a decrease on the order of 50% for Nihilus and maybe a little less for Sion and Traya would indeed be necessary to speed up the raid considerably.
An issue that is related to tuning the health level is participation. Most guilds that are doing T3 or T4 could either complete the next higher tier in almost the same time or finish the current tier in half the time if the participation would be very high. Health levels should not be adjusted according to what guilds in a certain GP range with all of the crucial toons might theoretically be able to do but according to how long it currently takes an average guild. And speaking of effort and rewards balance, a guild that clears hAAT easily should not take longer to clear STR T4 than it takes to get the tickets for it.
To improve participation and reduce frustration, a simming option would really be a good idea in the long run. It could be limited to just one squad per day that automatically deals 50% of the max damage that has been achieved with this squad at the current tier or something like that...
What you see above is the STR Tier 4 description. My advice to the developers is to create a guild, populate it with characters matching above description and complete tier 4 of this raid themselves.
When you are done four weeks from now and half of your people have rage quit, then you go back to the drawing board and figure out the raid parameters. I suspect that you mostly tested the heroic tier. But most of your player base isn't there and won't be there for a while.
*Forgot to add - and after all that effort you'll get the rewards, that's when the remaining half will rage quit.
Or just change the description, to match the requirements, instead of changing the raid to match a text field?
Also, the requirements are broken peetty much everywhere in the game, assault battles, legendaries, other events.. My theory is that because CG does not test any of these before rolling out, so naturally they have no idea of the real requirements. (and are lacking quality workers, to revisit even afterwards.)
"Intended for" is not a description, it's a design requirement. It's what you start with in real world. And yes, when you design a train instead of a car you were asked for, you are expected to start over.
In P3 of Heroic I keep getting stuck in endless loops. Is that WAI? Cause I thought that endless loops were the devil here. Sure, it is Traya that gets in the loop and it technically isn't endless because she eventually hits enrage and kills my toons (which makes the other loops technically not endless either, BTW) but it is pretty ridiculous when you see her just stand there and throw and throw and throw so many times in a row that she goes from 9 moves until enrage to enraged without my toon moving a single time.
Replies
I'm thinking the same thing and my guess is they are waiting to see whether people actually vote with their wallet and time or just plain whining and noise.
When many people lost interest in this game because of STR and spend less time/ money or leave game to certain statistical level and then their lead producers take action.
At least, we now know how to make them listen.
The removal g12 full piece chances is rudiculously brutal considering how little salvage you get. Several guildmates are becoming dispirited by how much effort they put in for so little compared to top 10.
Just add the chance for a full g12 piece, the left side pieces back to the lower ranks. I rank top 3 everytime, and its absurd how much more loot i recieve than the guy in 11th.
What this guy said.
+1
The health pool reduction will also need to be quite massive to bring completion time down to 2ish days from the week+ guilds face of they do the maximum tier they meet the minimum requirements for (especially in the case of tier 1-3 where they'll be lucky to have mediocre mods if they have mods unlocked at all)
A key point of that testing imo needs to be "is the health pool low enough to complete the raid in 2 days if I literally don't have any of the toons much less teams needed for t7" (or essentially "is the health pool low enough that a guild will finish the raid in 2 days even with absolutely no toons that have the kit needed to counter the boss mechanics") if that test isn't passed the health needs to keep getting reduced until the test is passed. Nothing less than that will get the desired results.
They need to start with 50% reduction and go up from there to even begin putting the raid tiers within spitting distance of their listed minimum requirements. Like even with 0 rng the current health pool is so massive + all the non rng mechanics it would take 2 weeks or more for a tier 1 1* team to beat it.
It's psychology , for every 10 players that complain 1 quits and 9 spend. Greater return on investment, however you can only manage to get those 9 to spend for so long and that's where the game starts. How many do they let go and what time frame until that happens is the real calculation. If the threshold is say stop at 4 players left you've got to figure out how long those other 5 will stay on the carousel before leaving. Theres an entire team set to these mobile games and also console and "spin to win" video arcades all across the world now. Companies pay huge for that kind of spending habit data. You didn't really think "rng" was real did you? They let set the parameters of that rng, so that 33% chance for a shard on energy drop is really 33% each time its rolled not "well I'll roll 4 and I should be guaranteed 1. They know you think this way. The point I'm trying to make is not whether the company does it or doesnt. Are you willing to pay for what you perceive the entrainment value to be. I spend occasionally, why because I'm not 20 years old and can sit around and grind things out, I travel for work 80+ hours a week and have no access to games besides mobile. Marquee packs, those are my expansion packs, gear 12 well yup those toons I've got over a years worth of entertainment and will continue to have them long after 5 console games have been traded in. I dont buy everything but I've dropped more than I care to admit. Heck if revan comes as a 5* unlock .buying all the kotor toons to 5* just to have him.
What you see above is the STR Tier 4 description. My advice to the developers is to create a guild, populate it with characters matching above description and complete tier 4 of this raid themselves.
When you are done four weeks from now and half of your people have rage quit, then you go back to the drawing board and figure out the raid parameters. I suspect that you mostly tested the heroic tier. But most of your player base isn't there and won't be there for a while.
*Forgot to add - and after all that effort you'll get the rewards, that's when the remaining half will rage quit.
It’s pretty simple. Creating an incentive to finish top 10 in the raid keeps whale guilds competing amongst themselves and spending money.
This won't repair the reckless damage caused to the community, only slow the inevitable.
+1
if my guild that had hpit on farm can't blitz tier 4 in 30 minutes with g11/12 fully modded toons the health pool is still to high because
1)you literally cannot use jtr and therefore inherently don't have access to the only good phase 1 team
2) your mods are basically going to be garbage you just started getting
3)full guild participation isn't required
And this is the big one
4)g12 toons should not feel like they're ineffective against a boss "balanced" for toons 2 stars lower & 4 full gear levels lower.
For me the important bit was the original announcement set a timeframe of a couple of weeks ish, then in the timeframe an update was provided, thank you for that.
I am currently passified..
Hah hah, they're immune to tenacity down.
yeah it's ridiculous. All spots should be able to get the same rewards. Just give the higher ranks a higher % chance to get full pieces.
What would really be nice is to base the gear rewards on score brackets instead of rank and only base the amount of shards on ranks as they do now. In our guild ATM your ns run in p4 mostly decides whether you get top10 or not and sometimes the difference between 10th and 11th is less than 10k points.
I would say 2 weeks just to get Nihilus down on T4 with this level of characters.
Now I want to find real professionals to cooperate with them and created a new site associated with space. If you are interested in cooperation, please contact me.
Or just change the description, to match the requirements, instead of changing the raid to match a text field?
Also, the requirements are broken peetty much everywhere in the game, assault battles, legendaries, other events.. My theory is that because CG does not test any of these before rolling out, so naturally they have no idea of the real requirements. (and are lacking quality workers, to revisit even afterwards.)
For STR, the participation of every member is require to success... the top 10 will not success if they are only 10 to participate et the raid!
The question is do they want to adjust the boss health to a level at which several teams are viable and it is not just all about Deathtrooper or RJT. Just compare the damage of something like Boba(L), DT, Thrawn, Ezra and a Healer as a somewhat specialized squad versus Wiggs Rebels as a standard high damage squad. The difference in damage at similiar mod and gear levels will be at least a factor of 2 at T4 and probably 3 at T5. It has been mentioned already that reducing the health will directly affect the damage from Deathmark or Expose. If those squads are used by several players I assume that a 20% reduction in health would translate to something like being 15% faster through that phase at best, which would be barely noticeable. Hence, a decrease on the order of 50% for Nihilus and maybe a little less for Sion and Traya would indeed be necessary to speed up the raid considerably.
An issue that is related to tuning the health level is participation. Most guilds that are doing T3 or T4 could either complete the next higher tier in almost the same time or finish the current tier in half the time if the participation would be very high. Health levels should not be adjusted according to what guilds in a certain GP range with all of the crucial toons might theoretically be able to do but according to how long it currently takes an average guild. And speaking of effort and rewards balance, a guild that clears hAAT easily should not take longer to clear STR T4 than it takes to get the tickets for it.
To improve participation and reduce frustration, a simming option would really be a good idea in the long run. It could be limited to just one squad per day that automatically deals 50% of the max damage that has been achieved with this squad at the current tier or something like that...
"Intended for" is not a description, it's a design requirement. It's what you start with in real world. And yes, when you design a train instead of a car you were asked for, you are expected to start over.