I mean...in terms of all the star wars movies, its not great. Probably bad. Do I wish they would have done things differently? Yes. Maybe less humor in places. Luke acting differently a tad. No Leia force flight thing...etc.
But as an overall movie, I thought it was mainly good and entertaining.
(i'm not over 30, but i'm almost 30 haha)
That's a shame, then you have answered the poll incorrectly. In terms of a Star Wars movie you have stated it is not good. That was the answer to the poll.
Not trying to not pick here but the question to the poll was simply “who liked the last Jedi”? Not who liked it in regards to other Star Wars movies. His last line stated that as an overall movie, it was mainly good and entertaining. The poll was not answered incorrectly.
Ya but no.
I actually agreed as an overall run of the mill movie, TLJ was entertaining.
As a star wars movie (which really is the context of the poll), it is not.
So what's your point again??
the title of the thread is literally "who liked the last jedi?" Not, "who liked the last jedi in the context of all star wars movies". TLJ can be viewed individually and in an expansive universe.
you're adding variables that weren't expressly outlined. his point is, stop trolling.
I can't really troll my own post/thread.
My point in this poll is quite clear. I would suggest you stop trolling.
You're entire post is a bait. Like everything else you post on here.
yes, you can troll people that respond to your own thread.
The poll is not quite clear (and thanks for finally using the correct poll). What if TLJ was the only star wars film someone ever saw? And that approval of the movie inclined them to download SWGOH? And then they were brought to the forums! Only to have their approval of the only Star Wars movie they've seen dismissed because they didn't know what you had implied because it wasn't explicitly stated?
Suggest away.
Incorrect - Since when is my wording (copied below for your ease of reference) have anything in regard to troll language? It doesn't. This is a simple poll - and so far those who like TLJ are the ones acting toxic on this post, which proves the point I made earlier. So keep trash talking - you are not being respectful of others.
"I want to make it clear that this is a poll only thread - I do not want or expect anyone to get into why they liked or did not like The Last Jedi.
I certainly do not want to see any comments re: political agendas or any shilling - I want to see a clear pole as to how many people on this forum are for or against TLJ - just curious.
Again - no one has to back up their pole decision with any kind of explanation - just a simple like or dislike."
I call the post "bait".
You told someone they incorrectly answered the poll.
I mean...in terms of all the star wars movies, its not great. Probably bad. Do I wish they would have done things differently? Yes. Maybe less humor in places. Luke acting differently a tad. No Leia force flight thing...etc.
But as an overall movie, I thought it was mainly good and entertaining.
(i'm not over 30, but i'm almost 30 haha)
That's a shame, then you have answered the poll incorrectly. In terms of a Star Wars movie you have stated it is not good. That was the answer to the poll.
If no one has seen Star Wars before they have a much better chance stating that it was a very good and entertaining movie (again, I am not saying there are not star wars fans who actually liked it), but as far as a star wars movie goes - it was bad in my opinion and obviously yours as well.
All of the discussion of politics being included in star wars movies was prompted by someone who thought the movie was bad justifying it because they didn't like the SJW and political agenda being inserted into the film.
Personally, I find the SJW sub-tones very unappealing, and I think the conscious decision to inject a political viewpoint into the series is a mistake.
The OT was a Vietnam War allegory appropriating WW2 imagery framing the Viet Cong as the French Resistance and the United States as the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
Episode 1 tapped into 90s fear of Asian economic conquest of the world to have the evil, Asian-coded economic powers oppressing the good, American/European coded heroes with their political and economic machinations, and their literal machinations in mass-produced droids.
Episodes 2 and 3 were made in the wake of 9/11, and bring back that old WW2 imagery from the OT to frame the Patriot Act as the Reichstag bombing.
Star Wars has always been political.
And your response is going to be "I can't control what people write on the thread!"
You knew exactly what this poll would turn into. Hence, why I called it's creation "bait" and your responses to participants "trolling".
But all of these facts that I've just posted will go ignored. You'll have some new straw man argument and continue to play the victim and how all those that like TLJ are so intolerant. I look forward to it.
Let me again list my beginning thread comments to you:
"I certainly do not want to see any comments re: political agendas or any shilling - I want to see a clear pole as to how many people on this forum are for or against TLJ - just curious."
Thank you.
But since you brought it up - the items you speak to influence the OT and PT were calls back to the past. 90s fear of Asian economic conquest - that was 80s or very early 90s at best and that only speaks to the trade dispute as a premise of TPM only. No one would really make that connection anyway.
Vietnam in regard tot he OT was with resect to the overpowered US Army against the under-armored Viet Cong - this is particularly correct in regard to ROTJ (Ewoks v. the Empire).
Most of the imagery (space battle) was reminiscent of WW2.
As for the PT - the story there was very much Germany pre-WW2 and ****'s rise to power. He turned the fear of the people into his political power, he too became chancellor and from there built his armies - Germany was no longer a democracy at that point and became a worldwide threat - like the Republic became The Galactic Empire - a galactic threat.
Issues raised in TLJ are current issues - Current issues that are at the front of people's minds gets thrown into their entertainment and passions in Star Wars or other things, because current world political agendas are affecting their escapism - which can obviously get people upset about things.
So again, lets keep the political opinions out of the thread, thanks.
You say you want a peaceful thread with just a poll, yet you argue every point, and present more of your own. Which says to me what you really want is an unopposed platform, and you're taking a back door to try and get it. If you don't want arguments about politics in this thread, stop continuing the argument.
And I've presented none of my political opinions in this thread. I've presented Star Wars' political assertions in episodes 1-6, which are pretty blatant.
Now, then. The 80s were mired in fear of Japanese economic conquest of the world. The economic collapse of the early 90s shifted that concern to Chinese economic conquest of the world, which is a theme that hasn't faded to this day, and is every bit as relevant to politics today as it was 20 years ago.
Episodes 2 and 3 were paralleling the rise of Censored to current events in the U.S. Namely the Patriot Act. They had a very specific piece of legislation they were targeting.
Episodes 4-6 were commenting on the Vietnam War in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. What the public reaction and impact to the Vietnam War meant in the aftermath was the dominant political question of its day.
Yes, Episodes 7 and 8 deal with current political issues. So do literally every episode. Star Wars hasn't changed in that regard; your reaction to it is what's changed. Do episodes 7 and 8 have an agenda? Of course they do! But so is rage against The Man over the war. So is demonizing the rival superpower. So is decrying the Bush administration and a specific piece of legislation. These are all political agendas. The sequel trilogy's is quite frankly the most mild the series has had up to this point.
Didn't take too much effort to fact check. Found this on Wikipedia:
"Lucas even said in 2005 that Star Wars "was really about the Vietnam War, and that was the period where Richard Nixon was trying to run for a [second] term, which got me to thinking historically about how do democracies get turned into dictatorships. Because the democracies aren't overthrown; they're given away."
A quote from Lucas himself taking about the political context is enough for me to believe it's always been there and is intentional.
I don't really feel like searching for sources for the rest. I'll let you guys do that.
This about George is common knowledge, I am surprised someone felt the need to search it out.
However that doesn't make it political or certainly not a political agenda I think that is a key word political agenda.
What Lucas did was take inspiration and story from actual history - if a historian wrote a book about history, is he pushing a political agenda? No.
That is where the ST falls short I am afraid to say.
I only felt the need to look it up because someone called bull on it. Having a fruitful conversation requires all parties to be informed.
It's also well known that Lucas was very anti-Vietnam. So much so that he wanted to make an anti-war movie on Vietnam called "Apocalypse Now". He was to busy with Star Wars to sign on as director. I'll let you fact check that off you care to.
Knowing this, it's not all that hard to argue he put his own political agenda into Star Wars.
I mean...in terms of all the star wars movies, its not great. Probably bad. Do I wish they would have done things differently? Yes. Maybe less humor in places. Luke acting differently a tad. No Leia force flight thing...etc.
But as an overall movie, I thought it was mainly good and entertaining.
(i'm not over 30, but i'm almost 30 haha)
That's a shame, then you have answered the poll incorrectly. In terms of a Star Wars movie you have stated it is not good. That was the answer to the poll.
Not trying to not pick here but the question to the poll was simply “who liked the last Jedi”? Not who liked it in regards to other Star Wars movies. His last line stated that as an overall movie, it was mainly good and entertaining. The poll was not answered incorrectly.
Ya but no.
I actually agreed as an overall run of the mill movie, TLJ was entertaining.
As a star wars movie (which really is the context of the poll), it is not.
So what's your point again??
the title of the thread is literally "who liked the last jedi?" Not, "who liked the last jedi in the context of all star wars movies". TLJ can be viewed individually and in an expansive universe.
you're adding variables that weren't expressly outlined. his point is, stop trolling.
I can't really troll my own post/thread.
My point in this poll is quite clear. I would suggest you stop trolling.
You're entire post is a bait. Like everything else you post on here.
yes, you can troll people that respond to your own thread.
The poll is not quite clear (and thanks for finally using the correct poll). What if TLJ was the only star wars film someone ever saw? And that approval of the movie inclined them to download SWGOH? And then they were brought to the forums! Only to have their approval of the only Star Wars movie they've seen dismissed because they didn't know what you had implied because it wasn't explicitly stated?
Suggest away.
Incorrect - Since when is my wording (copied below for your ease of reference) have anything in regard to troll language? It doesn't. This is a simple poll - and so far those who like TLJ are the ones acting toxic on this post, which proves the point I made earlier. So keep trash talking - you are not being respectful of others.
"I want to make it clear that this is a poll only thread - I do not want or expect anyone to get into why they liked or did not like The Last Jedi.
I certainly do not want to see any comments re: political agendas or any shilling - I want to see a clear pole as to how many people on this forum are for or against TLJ - just curious.
Again - no one has to back up their pole decision with any kind of explanation - just a simple like or dislike."
I call the post "bait".
You told someone they incorrectly answered the poll.
I mean...in terms of all the star wars movies, its not great. Probably bad. Do I wish they would have done things differently? Yes. Maybe less humor in places. Luke acting differently a tad. No Leia force flight thing...etc.
But as an overall movie, I thought it was mainly good and entertaining.
(i'm not over 30, but i'm almost 30 haha)
That's a shame, then you have answered the poll incorrectly. In terms of a Star Wars movie you have stated it is not good. That was the answer to the poll.
If no one has seen Star Wars before they have a much better chance stating that it was a very good and entertaining movie (again, I am not saying there are not star wars fans who actually liked it), but as far as a star wars movie goes - it was bad in my opinion and obviously yours as well.
All of the discussion of politics being included in star wars movies was prompted by someone who thought the movie was bad justifying it because they didn't like the SJW and political agenda being inserted into the film.
Personally, I find the SJW sub-tones very unappealing, and I think the conscious decision to inject a political viewpoint into the series is a mistake.
The OT was a Vietnam War allegory appropriating WW2 imagery framing the Viet Cong as the French Resistance and the United States as the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
Episode 1 tapped into 90s fear of Asian economic conquest of the world to have the evil, Asian-coded economic powers oppressing the good, American/European coded heroes with their political and economic machinations, and their literal machinations in mass-produced droids.
Episodes 2 and 3 were made in the wake of 9/11, and bring back that old WW2 imagery from the OT to frame the Patriot Act as the Reichstag bombing.
Star Wars has always been political.
And your response is going to be "I can't control what people write on the thread!"
You knew exactly what this poll would turn into. Hence, why I called it's creation "bait" and your responses to participants "trolling".
But all of these facts that I've just posted will go ignored. You'll have some new straw man argument and continue to play the victim and how all those that like TLJ are so intolerant. I look forward to it.
You call the poll "bait" - you are entitled to your own opinion. That is not what this poll is about however. I am sorry that you are so easily triggered by a difference in opinion than yours over the TLJ. This poll is an unbias poll aimed at looking into how many people liked or disliked TLJ - that is all.
I suggested that someone answered the poll incorrectly based on that person stating that as a star wars movie, TLJ was not great. I have clarified this answer with this individual and did not argue him on it. Your input on that conversation was not required and is still not necessary.
Someone (who happened to not like TLJ) mentioned politics being an issue in the movie - despite my request at the start of this thread to leave reasons why people liked or disliked TLJ out of the discussion, including politics. However this person mentioned politics, but did not go into detail about them.
You have post no facts at all - just your opinions. Sorry.
Let me again list my beginning thread comments to you:
"I certainly do not want to see any comments re: political agendas or any shilling - I want to see a clear pole as to how many people on this forum are for or against TLJ - just curious."
Thank you.
But since you brought it up - the items you speak to influence the OT and PT were calls back to the past. 90s fear of Asian economic conquest - that was 80s or very early 90s at best and that only speaks to the trade dispute as a premise of TPM only. No one would really make that connection anyway.
Vietnam in regard tot he OT was with resect to the overpowered US Army against the under-armored Viet Cong - this is particularly correct in regard to ROTJ (Ewoks v. the Empire).
Most of the imagery (space battle) was reminiscent of WW2.
As for the PT - the story there was very much Germany pre-WW2 and ****'s rise to power. He turned the fear of the people into his political power, he too became chancellor and from there built his armies - Germany was no longer a democracy at that point and became a worldwide threat - like the Republic became The Galactic Empire - a galactic threat.
Issues raised in TLJ are current issues - Current issues that are at the front of people's minds gets thrown into their entertainment and passions in Star Wars or other things, because current world political agendas are affecting their escapism - which can obviously get people upset about things.
So again, lets keep the political opinions out of the thread, thanks.
You say you want a peaceful thread with just a poll, yet you argue every point, and present more of your own. Which says to me what you really want is an unopposed platform, and you're taking a back door to try and get it. If you don't want arguments about politics in this thread, stop continuing the argument.
And I've presented none of my political opinions in this thread. I've presented Star Wars' political assertions in episodes 1-6, which are pretty blatant.
Now, then. The 80s were mired in fear of Japanese economic conquest of the world. The economic collapse of the early 90s shifted that concern to Chinese economic conquest of the world, which is a theme that hasn't faded to this day, and is every bit as relevant to politics today as it was 20 years ago.
Episodes 2 and 3 were paralleling the rise of Censored to current events in the U.S. Namely the Patriot Act. They had a very specific piece of legislation they were targeting.
Episodes 4-6 were commenting on the Vietnam War in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. What the public reaction and impact to the Vietnam War meant in the aftermath was the dominant political question of its day.
Yes, Episodes 7 and 8 deal with current political issues. So do literally every episode. Star Wars hasn't changed in that regard; your reaction to it is what's changed. Do episodes 7 and 8 have an agenda? Of course they do! But so is rage against The Man over the war. So is demonizing the rival superpower. So is decrying the Bush administration and a specific piece of legislation. These are all political agendas. The sequel trilogy's is quite frankly the most mild the series has had up to this point.
I did not want politics mentioned in this thread - that was clear from the beginning. However others did. Your views in regard to politics used in EPs 1-6 are flawed in that they are based on historical issues and politics.
This new ST is based on political agendas - which is totally different. A person can not argue political situations that have shaped history - they are inspiring for story telling, we are also taking about world views.
What we have in the ST is political agendas based on people's opinions of minor world views, which are not historical, but are current issues and can cause upset among audiences - that was my point.
I am not taking a position being for or against here in your argument, I just wanted to outline important aspects that were omitted from your statement. Why don't you take what I have said and learn from it or carry on a civil discussion rather than repeating your flawed points over and over. I am happy to talk with you.
You say "And I've presented none of my political opinions in this thread. I've presented Star Wars' political assertions in episodes 1-6, which are pretty blatant." Actually you have talked about your opinions based on political assertions alluded to in EPs 1-6. As some of what you say is opinion, that is open to scrutiny.
Didn't take too much effort to fact check. Found this on Wikipedia:
"Lucas even said in 2005 that Star Wars "was really about the Vietnam War, and that was the period where Richard Nixon was trying to run for a [second] term, which got me to thinking historically about how do democracies get turned into dictatorships. Because the democracies aren't overthrown; they're given away."
A quote from Lucas himself taking about the political context is enough for me to believe it's always been there and is intentional.
I don't really feel like searching for sources for the rest. I'll let you guys do that.
This about George is common knowledge, I am surprised someone felt the need to search it out.
However that doesn't make it political or certainly not a political agenda I think that is a key word political agenda.
What Lucas did was take inspiration and story from actual history - if a historian wrote a book about history, is he pushing a political agenda? No.
That is where the ST falls short I am afraid to say.
I only felt the need to look it up because someone called bull on it. Having a fruitful conversation requires all parties to be informed.
It's also well known that Lucas was very anti-Vietnam. So much so that he wanted to make an anti-war movie on Vietnam called "Apocalypse Now". He was to busy with Star Wars to sign on as director. I'll let you fact check that off you care to.
Knowing this, it's not all that hard to argue he put his own political agenda into Star Wars.
My point is there wasn't much of a political "agenda" going on in this regard. Perhaps some very toned down historical/political use.
The Vietnam War was long ended come 1977 - it was no longer a current world issue. Is movie "Platoon" a political agenda, because it was a movie actually based on the Vietnam War??
I am not arguing with you - I just feel people are getting confused by political history and current political agendas - they are totally different.
Please remember this is an un-bias poll thread. Please advise if you are for or against TLJ, that is all.
Please remember to try and keep political views etc. out of the discussion.
Please also remember to be respectful toward each other - Remember we are all Star Wars fans to different degrees, we ultimately enjoy the franchise and obviously all share a love for this game.
Didn't take too much effort to fact check. Found this on Wikipedia:
"Lucas even said in 2005 that Star Wars "was really about the Vietnam War, and that was the period where Richard Nixon was trying to run for a [second] term, which got me to thinking historically about how do democracies get turned into dictatorships. Because the democracies aren't overthrown; they're given away."
A quote from Lucas himself taking about the political context is enough for me to believe it's always been there and is intentional.
I don't really feel like searching for sources for the rest. I'll let you guys do that.
This about George is common knowledge, I am surprised someone felt the need to search it out.
However that doesn't make it political or certainly not a political agenda I think that is a key word political agenda.
What Lucas did was take inspiration and story from actual history - if a historian wrote a book about history, is he pushing a political agenda? No.
That is where the ST falls short I am afraid to say.
I only felt the need to look it up because someone called bull on it. Having a fruitful conversation requires all parties to be informed.
It's also well known that Lucas was very anti-Vietnam. So much so that he wanted to make an anti-war movie on Vietnam called "Apocalypse Now". He was to busy with Star Wars to sign on as director. I'll let you fact check that off you care to.
Knowing this, it's not all that hard to argue he put his own political agenda into Star Wars.
My point is there wasn't much of a political "agenda" going on in this regard. Perhaps some very toned down historical/political use.
The Vietnam War was long ended come 1977 - it was no longer a current world issue. Is movie "Platoon" a political agenda, because it was a movie actually based on the Vietnam War??
I am not arguing with you - I just feel people are getting confused by political history and current political agendas - they are totally different.
I'm not arguing either. Just providing information. The last bit I'll provide is that Star Wars was released in 1977. The war ended in 1975. Just because the movie came out two years after the war ended doesn't mean it wasn't a current world issue while the movie was being created. Lucas began collecting ideas for it in the early 70s (while Nixon was in office) and had a first draft in 1974 I believe.
I only entered this discussion in an attempt to inform parties and try to prevent it from degrading further. I don't care to get into a discussion on the politics involved and I don't think this conversation can proceed much further without making that turn so I'll exit the conversation with this post.
Let me again list my beginning thread comments to you:
"I certainly do not want to see any comments re: political agendas or any shilling - I want to see a clear pole as to how many people on this forum are for or against TLJ - just curious."
Thank you.
But since you brought it up - the items you speak to influence the OT and PT were calls back to the past. 90s fear of Asian economic conquest - that was 80s or very early 90s at best and that only speaks to the trade dispute as a premise of TPM only. No one would really make that connection anyway.
Vietnam in regard tot he OT was with resect to the overpowered US Army against the under-armored Viet Cong - this is particularly correct in regard to ROTJ (Ewoks v. the Empire).
Most of the imagery (space battle) was reminiscent of WW2.
As for the PT - the story there was very much Germany pre-WW2 and ****'s rise to power. He turned the fear of the people into his political power, he too became chancellor and from there built his armies - Germany was no longer a democracy at that point and became a worldwide threat - like the Republic became The Galactic Empire - a galactic threat.
Issues raised in TLJ are current issues - Current issues that are at the front of people's minds gets thrown into their entertainment and passions in Star Wars or other things, because current world political agendas are affecting their escapism - which can obviously get people upset about things.
So again, lets keep the political opinions out of the thread, thanks.
You say you want a peaceful thread with just a poll, yet you argue every point, and present more of your own. Which says to me what you really want is an unopposed platform, and you're taking a back door to try and get it. If you don't want arguments about politics in this thread, stop continuing the argument.
And I've presented none of my political opinions in this thread. I've presented Star Wars' political assertions in episodes 1-6, which are pretty blatant.
Now, then. The 80s were mired in fear of Japanese economic conquest of the world. The economic collapse of the early 90s shifted that concern to Chinese economic conquest of the world, which is a theme that hasn't faded to this day, and is every bit as relevant to politics today as it was 20 years ago.
Episodes 2 and 3 were paralleling the rise of Censored to current events in the U.S. Namely the Patriot Act. They had a very specific piece of legislation they were targeting.
Episodes 4-6 were commenting on the Vietnam War in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. What the public reaction and impact to the Vietnam War meant in the aftermath was the dominant political question of its day.
Yes, Episodes 7 and 8 deal with current political issues. So do literally every episode. Star Wars hasn't changed in that regard; your reaction to it is what's changed. Do episodes 7 and 8 have an agenda? Of course they do! But so is rage against The Man over the war. So is demonizing the rival superpower. So is decrying the Bush administration and a specific piece of legislation. These are all political agendas. The sequel trilogy's is quite frankly the most mild the series has had up to this point.
I did not want politics mentioned in this thread - that was clear from the beginning. However others did. Your views in regard to politics used in EPs 1-6 are flawed in that they are based on historical issues and politics.
This new ST is based on political agendas - which is totally different. A person can not argue political situations that have shaped history - they are inspiring for story telling, we are also taking about world views.
What we have in the ST is political agendas based on people's opinions of minor world views, which are not historical, but are current issues and can cause upset among audiences - that was my point.
I am not taking a position being for or against here in your argument, I just wanted to outline important aspects that were omitted from your statement. Why don't you take what I have said and learn from it or carry on a civil discussion rather than repeating your flawed points over and over. I am happy to talk with you.
You say "And I've presented none of my political opinions in this thread. I've presented Star Wars' political assertions in episodes 1-6, which are pretty blatant." Actually you have talked about your opinions based on political assertions alluded to in EPs 1-6. As some of what you say is opinion, that is open to scrutiny.
Didn't take too much effort to fact check. Found this on Wikipedia:
"Lucas even said in 2005 that Star Wars "was really about the Vietnam War, and that was the period where Richard Nixon was trying to run for a [second] term, which got me to thinking historically about how do democracies get turned into dictatorships. Because the democracies aren't overthrown; they're given away."
A quote from Lucas himself taking about the political context is enough for me to believe it's always been there and is intentional.
I don't really feel like searching for sources for the rest. I'll let you guys do that.
This about George is common knowledge, I am surprised someone felt the need to search it out.
However that doesn't make it political or certainly not a political agenda I think that is a key word political agenda.
What Lucas did was take inspiration and story from actual history - if a historian wrote a book about history, is he pushing a political agenda? No.
That is where the ST falls short I am afraid to say.
I only felt the need to look it up because someone called bull on it. Having a fruitful conversation requires all parties to be informed.
It's also well known that Lucas was very anti-Vietnam. So much so that he wanted to make an anti-war movie on Vietnam called "Apocalypse Now". He was to busy with Star Wars to sign on as director. I'll let you fact check that off you care to.
Knowing this, it's not all that hard to argue he put his own political agenda into Star Wars.
My point is there wasn't much of a political "agenda" going on in this regard. Perhaps some very toned down historical/political use.
The Vietnam War was long ended come 1977 - it was no longer a current world issue. Is movie "Platoon" a political agenda, because it was a movie actually based on the Vietnam War??
I am not arguing with you - I just feel people are getting confused by political history and current political agendas - they are totally different.
I'm not arguing either. Just providing information. The last bit I'll provide is that Star Wars was released in 1977. The war ended in 1975. Just because the movie came out two years after the war ended doesn't mean it wasn't a current world issue while the movie was being created. Lucas began collecting ideas for it in the early 70s (while Nixon was in office) and had a first draft in 1974 I believe.
I only entered this discussion in an attempt to inform parties and try to prevent it from degrading further. I don't care to get into a discussion on the politics involved and I don't think this conversation can proceed much further without making that turn so I'll exit the conversation with this post.
Good luck with your poll!
Thanks - I agree with everything you have said.
If a movie, with political issues and agendas was written during the time of WW2, but finally being released tomorrow - it is still a historical movie.
I am not stating that ANH or the idea of the empire etc. is not based on Vietnam War, but it was already over when the movie released. So, to an audience, it is views from the past.
Thanks for your kind wishes my friend, I enjoyed your input to the discussion
Replies
I call the post "bait".
You told someone they incorrectly answered the poll.
All of the discussion of politics being included in star wars movies was prompted by someone who thought the movie was bad justifying it because they didn't like the SJW and political agenda being inserted into the film.
And your response is going to be "I can't control what people write on the thread!"
You knew exactly what this poll would turn into. Hence, why I called it's creation "bait" and your responses to participants "trolling".
But all of these facts that I've just posted will go ignored. You'll have some new straw man argument and continue to play the victim and how all those that like TLJ are so intolerant. I look forward to it.
And I've presented none of my political opinions in this thread. I've presented Star Wars' political assertions in episodes 1-6, which are pretty blatant.
Now, then. The 80s were mired in fear of Japanese economic conquest of the world. The economic collapse of the early 90s shifted that concern to Chinese economic conquest of the world, which is a theme that hasn't faded to this day, and is every bit as relevant to politics today as it was 20 years ago.
Episodes 2 and 3 were paralleling the rise of Censored to current events in the U.S. Namely the Patriot Act. They had a very specific piece of legislation they were targeting.
Episodes 4-6 were commenting on the Vietnam War in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. What the public reaction and impact to the Vietnam War meant in the aftermath was the dominant political question of its day.
Yes, Episodes 7 and 8 deal with current political issues. So do literally every episode. Star Wars hasn't changed in that regard; your reaction to it is what's changed. Do episodes 7 and 8 have an agenda? Of course they do! But so is rage against The Man over the war. So is demonizing the rival superpower. So is decrying the Bush administration and a specific piece of legislation. These are all political agendas. The sequel trilogy's is quite frankly the most mild the series has had up to this point.
I only felt the need to look it up because someone called bull on it. Having a fruitful conversation requires all parties to be informed.
It's also well known that Lucas was very anti-Vietnam. So much so that he wanted to make an anti-war movie on Vietnam called "Apocalypse Now". He was to busy with Star Wars to sign on as director. I'll let you fact check that off you care to.
Knowing this, it's not all that hard to argue he put his own political agenda into Star Wars.
You call the poll "bait" - you are entitled to your own opinion. That is not what this poll is about however. I am sorry that you are so easily triggered by a difference in opinion than yours over the TLJ. This poll is an unbias poll aimed at looking into how many people liked or disliked TLJ - that is all.
I suggested that someone answered the poll incorrectly based on that person stating that as a star wars movie, TLJ was not great. I have clarified this answer with this individual and did not argue him on it. Your input on that conversation was not required and is still not necessary.
Someone (who happened to not like TLJ) mentioned politics being an issue in the movie - despite my request at the start of this thread to leave reasons why people liked or disliked TLJ out of the discussion, including politics. However this person mentioned politics, but did not go into detail about them.
You have post no facts at all - just your opinions. Sorry.
I did not want politics mentioned in this thread - that was clear from the beginning. However others did. Your views in regard to politics used in EPs 1-6 are flawed in that they are based on historical issues and politics.
This new ST is based on political agendas - which is totally different. A person can not argue political situations that have shaped history - they are inspiring for story telling, we are also taking about world views.
What we have in the ST is political agendas based on people's opinions of minor world views, which are not historical, but are current issues and can cause upset among audiences - that was my point.
I am not taking a position being for or against here in your argument, I just wanted to outline important aspects that were omitted from your statement. Why don't you take what I have said and learn from it or carry on a civil discussion rather than repeating your flawed points over and over. I am happy to talk with you.
You say "And I've presented none of my political opinions in this thread. I've presented Star Wars' political assertions in episodes 1-6, which are pretty blatant." Actually you have talked about your opinions based on political assertions alluded to in EPs 1-6. As some of what you say is opinion, that is open to scrutiny.
My point is there wasn't much of a political "agenda" going on in this regard. Perhaps some very toned down historical/political use.
The Vietnam War was long ended come 1977 - it was no longer a current world issue. Is movie "Platoon" a political agenda, because it was a movie actually based on the Vietnam War??
I am not arguing with you - I just feel people are getting confused by political history and current political agendas - they are totally different.
Please remember this is an un-bias poll thread. Please advise if you are for or against TLJ, that is all.
Please remember to try and keep political views etc. out of the discussion.
Please also remember to be respectful toward each other - Remember we are all Star Wars fans to different degrees, we ultimately enjoy the franchise and obviously all share a love for this game.
Thanks
I'm not arguing either. Just providing information. The last bit I'll provide is that Star Wars was released in 1977. The war ended in 1975. Just because the movie came out two years after the war ended doesn't mean it wasn't a current world issue while the movie was being created. Lucas began collecting ideas for it in the early 70s (while Nixon was in office) and had a first draft in 1974 I believe.
I only entered this discussion in an attempt to inform parties and try to prevent it from degrading further. I don't care to get into a discussion on the politics involved and I don't think this conversation can proceed much further without making that turn so I'll exit the conversation with this post.
Good luck with your poll!
Thanks - I agree with everything you have said.
If a movie, with political issues and agendas was written during the time of WW2, but finally being released tomorrow - it is still a historical movie.
I am not stating that ANH or the idea of the empire etc. is not based on Vietnam War, but it was already over when the movie released. So, to an audience, it is views from the past.
Thanks for your kind wishes my friend, I enjoyed your input to the discussion