Arena PO fix

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Replies

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Trajector wrote: »
    Allright people, then why don't we push for the same system that both "Idle Heroes" and "Warhammer Freeblade" use? There is no locking possible, and when you win - you don't swap ranks with your target, instead you just get some points, proportionate to the distance between you and your target. I still think it would be better to reward based on the highest rank achieved in the 24 hours prior to reward, to prevent players from having to dedicate 1-2 hours a day at a fixed time every day - which I hope most would agree is hugely inflexible.

    So, instead you suggest that players, who play more matches, collect more points and rank higher? And if playing many hours a day, you will rank higher? And playing 1—2 hours before payout only, will not be enough to reach top ranks?

    No thanx. The game consumes enough time with the current system
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Waqui wrote: »
    Trajector wrote: »
    Allright people, then why don't we push for the same system that both "Idle Heroes" and "Warhammer Freeblade" use? There is no locking possible, and when you win - you don't swap ranks with your target, instead you just get some points, proportionate to the distance between you and your target. I still think it would be better to reward based on the highest rank achieved in the 24 hours prior to reward, to prevent players from having to dedicate 1-2 hours a day at a fixed time every day - which I hope most would agree is hugely inflexible.

    So, instead you suggest that players, who play more matches, collect more points and rank higher? And if playing many hours a day, you will rank higher? And playing 1—2 hours before payout only, will not be enough to reach top ranks?

    No thanx. The game consumes enough time with the current system

    Agree. If I had to choose between a bad single time of day I need to be on vs spending more time in game. I would pick the single bad time.
  • Was reading the second Live Q&A and came across this:
    WhatIth: Will either arena ever be reworked?
    [NR] Not sure what the question is asking. If the question is will the actual structure of Arena or Fleet Arena be changed (rank swap, payout times, shard sizes, etc) the answer is no.

    Seems pretty clear cut.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Trajector wrote: »
    Allright people, then why don't we push for the same system that both "Idle Heroes" and "Warhammer Freeblade" use? There is no locking possible, and when you win - you don't swap ranks with your target, instead you just get some points, proportionate to the distance between you and your target. I still think it would be better to reward based on the highest rank achieved in the 24 hours prior to reward, to prevent players from having to dedicate 1-2 hours a day at a fixed time every day - which I hope most would agree is hugely inflexible.

    So, instead you suggest that players, who play more matches, collect more points and rank higher? And if playing many hours a day, you will rank higher? And playing 1—2 hours before payout only, will not be enough to reach top ranks?

    No thanx. The game consumes enough time with the current system

    Agreed, this will only reward players who dump crystals into refreshes. Which is silly since everyone will have to play a game of chicken and see who refreshes more and everybody gets their crystal income reduced. Heck, this idea is so nefarious that it just might get implemented. Stop giving CG bad ideas please.
  • Trajector
    32 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Waqui wrote: »
    ...
    So, instead you suggest that players, who play more matches, collect more points and rank higher? And if playing many hours a day, you will rank higher? And playing 1—2 hours before payout only, will not be enough to reach top ranks?

    No thanx. The game consumes enough time with the current system

    Hang on, how would you be able to play more hours a day, if you are still restricted to 5 daily free matches (plus whatever refreshes you can currently buy for crystals)? - That isn't changing in my proposal.

    All that is changing is that you will not be locked while battling, and instead of swapping ranks on victory you will accrue points, and you will get the reward based on the highest rank achieved during a day, rather than the rank you have at 6pm. As you will no longer be locked - the 5 minute restriction could also be removed (since noone will then be waiting on you to finish your battle). But some things should not be changed, like the number of battles or the turn-based mechanics of the battles.
  • jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Was reading the second Live Q&A and came across this:
    WhatIth: Will either arena ever be reworked?
    [NR] Not sure what the question is asking. If the question is will the actual structure of Arena or Fleet Arena be changed (rank swap, payout times, shard sizes, etc) the answer is no.

    Seems pretty clear cut.

    People have a tendency to change their minds depending on the circumstances and the pressure others put on them.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Trajector wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    ...
    So, instead you suggest that players, who play more matches, collect more points and rank higher? And if playing many hours a day, you will rank higher? And playing 1—2 hours before payout only, will not be enough to reach top ranks?

    No thanx. The game consumes enough time with the current system

    Hang on, how would you be able to play more hours a day, if you are still restricted to 5 daily free matches (plus whatever refreshes you can currently buy for crystals)? - That isn't changing in my proposal.

    All that is changing is that you will not be locked while battling, and instead of swapping ranks on victory you will accrue points, and you will get the reward based on the highest rank achieved during a day, rather than the rank you have at 6pm. As you will no longer be locked - the 5 minute restriction could also be removed (since noone will then be waiting on you to finish your battle). But some things should not be changed, like the number of battles or the turn-based mechanics of the battles.

    Still, players who refresh more and battle more will be able to earn more points, which could force their competitors to also refresh and battle more to reach high ranks.

    Rewards based on highest rank achieved during the day will result in heavily reduced rewards to not flood the market with crystals. Instead of only 24 players receiving 1st prize, we would have maybe 100 players reaching 1st place at some point during the day.
  • Waqui wrote: »

    Rewards based on highest rank achieved during the day will result in heavily reduced rewards to not flood the market with crystals. Instead of only 24 players receiving 1st prize, we would have maybe 100 players reaching 1st place at some point during the day.

    Right - but here we are discussing ways to solve the problem of everyone complaining about the deficiencies of the current system, where you have to be tied to your phone for specific 2 hours every day, rather than being able to choose the time that suits you.

    While I agree with you that more players will receive first rank - it is either that, or the current system not changing. In fact the solution is simple: just nerf the rewards, to bring them in line with fleet arena. Everyone would be happy: players for being able to reach top 1 with flexibility, and devs for not giving away more crystals than they currently do.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Trajector wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »

    Rewards based on highest rank achieved during the day will result in heavily reduced rewards to not flood the market with crystals. Instead of only 24 players receiving 1st prize, we would have maybe 100 players reaching 1st place at some point during the day.

    Right - but here we are discussing ways to solve the problem of everyone complaining about the deficiencies of the current system, where you have to be tied to your phone for specific 2 hours every day, rather than being able to choose the time that suits you.
    Your suggestion would have playets, who want top ranks, 'tied to their phone' for longer.
    While I agree with you that more players will receive first rank - it is either that, or the current system not changing.

    Are you seriously suggesting, that there are only those two options? Current system or your suggested system?
    In fact the solution is simple: just nerf the rewards, to bring them in line with fleet arena.

    So, only top—50 receive crystal rewards? So those currently ranking 200ish will have to spend much more time in arena to receive crystals?
    Everyone would be happy: players for being able to reach top 1 with flexibility, and devs for not giving away more crystals than they currently do.

    I don't believe that players, who would no longer gain crystal rewards, would be happy.

    I don't believe, that players, who would have to spend much more time in arena to gain the same rank they are used to currently, would be happy.

  • Trajector wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Was reading the second Live Q&A and came across this:
    WhatIth: Will either arena ever be reworked?
    [NR] Not sure what the question is asking. If the question is will the actual structure of Arena or Fleet Arena be changed (rank swap, payout times, shard sizes, etc) the answer is no.

    Seems pretty clear cut.

    People have a tendency to change their minds depending on the circumstances and the pressure others put on them.

    You mean you hope they change mind even though that quote came after over two years of people sharing similar complaints to The OP.

    Sure, people change their mind. I just don't think this will be one of those times. Best of luck though.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Trajector wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »

    Rewards based on highest rank achieved during the day will result in heavily reduced rewards to not flood the market with crystals. Instead of only 24 players receiving 1st prize, we would have maybe 100 players reaching 1st place at some point during the day.

    Right - but here we are discussing ways to solve the problem of everyone complaining about the deficiencies of the current system, where you have to be tied to your phone for specific 2 hours every day, rather than being able to choose the time that suits you.
    Your suggestion would have playets, who want top ranks, 'tied to their phone' for longer.

    In what way?

    NB. I don't see a value in me responding to your other points, as they appear to simply make ungrounded assumptions about and challenge my contributions to the discussion, rather than suggesting new ways of how to fix the bad design of arena PO mechanics.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Trajector wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Trajector wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »

    Rewards based on highest rank achieved during the day will result in heavily reduced rewards to not flood the market with crystals. Instead of only 24 players receiving 1st prize, we would have maybe 100 players reaching 1st place at some point during the day.

    Right - but here we are discussing ways to solve the problem of everyone complaining about the deficiencies of the current system, where you have to be tied to your phone for specific 2 hours every day, rather than being able to choose the time that suits you.
    Your suggestion would have playets, who want top ranks, 'tied to their phone' for longer.

    In what way?

    NB. I don't see a value in me responding to your other points, as they appear to simply make ungrounded assumptions about and challenge my contributions to the discussion, rather than suggesting new ways of how to fix the bad design of arena PO mechanics.

    With the current system some players can reach top rank with 5 matches or less. With your suggested changes (the points system) it will require more battles for most players. Whoever fights more battles potentially scores more points, hence forcing everybody else to battle even more to reach top rank.

    One thing you didn't address in your suggestion:
    When do do points reset? Daily? Weekly? Never?

    Did you consider, that after a reset, the first player to win a battle would reach top rank and get first prize? Disregarding that he may have a very weak team? All he needsto do is win against another weak player.

    Did you consider, that if points never reset, a player could accumulate a large advantage over the 2nd ranked player, then stop playing for a day or week and still collect first prize?
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    PS. Feel free to only comment on what you choose to. It's fine. If you you don't have any good responses, when flaws in your suggested new system are pointed out, you are free to not respond.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    PS. Feel free to only comment on what you choose to. It's fine. If you you don't have any good responses, when flaws in your suggested new system are pointed out, you are free to not respond.

    Sorry, but you are looking at the suggestions I put forward from a wrong angle. They are not "my" suggestions just because I have put them forward, they belong to the community of the players, yourself included. It is our joint responsibility to come up with a better system. It is not a case where I have a responsibility to put some suggestions forward, after which you have a responsibility to criticise them letter by letter - this way we won't get anywhere. To get somewhere it would be much better if you and others would enhance the suggestions that I or anyone has put forward - as if they were put forward by you.

    Now with that in mind feel free to present your own version of the answer to "When do do points reset? Daily? Weekly? Never?", my version would be daily, as is done in other similar games.
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