This is now a guild-killing raid
I’ll surely not be the first or last person to please with CG to consider this but the effect that G12+ gear drops only falling to the first 10 placings in this raid is absolutely devastating guilds right now.
There is no incentive whatsoever for a strong player to join a strong guild, because, they’ll just have to work much harder to gain the gear.
Less powerful guilds may be happy to accept mercs in the short term to help gain some Traya shards but I’m sure people will come to realise it’s a completely unsustainable way to run a guild, much less against the spirit of trying to keep a good group of players together to achieve shared goals.
Guild leaders of alliances have been resorting to creating sub-guilds purely for their members to hop in and out once a week to run an extra Sith raid and gain extra gear. To me this feels like gaming the system and again, against the spirit of play, however I make no judgement against those players participating in such technique because this is the system we’ve been left with...
CG made promises to us about flattening the gear rewards across the guild have failed to transpire and it’s now tearing us apart at an alarming rate.
Please, please listen to the community here - we need you to facilitate guild cohesion, not destroy it.
The game otherwise feels to be in a good place with a lot to look forward to - it would be a huge own goal if large swathes of guilds were broken apart without getting the chance to collectively enjoy all that is planned!
Xx
There is no incentive whatsoever for a strong player to join a strong guild, because, they’ll just have to work much harder to gain the gear.
Less powerful guilds may be happy to accept mercs in the short term to help gain some Traya shards but I’m sure people will come to realise it’s a completely unsustainable way to run a guild, much less against the spirit of trying to keep a good group of players together to achieve shared goals.
Guild leaders of alliances have been resorting to creating sub-guilds purely for their members to hop in and out once a week to run an extra Sith raid and gain extra gear. To me this feels like gaming the system and again, against the spirit of play, however I make no judgement against those players participating in such technique because this is the system we’ve been left with...
CG made promises to us about flattening the gear rewards across the guild have failed to transpire and it’s now tearing us apart at an alarming rate.
Please, please listen to the community here - we need you to facilitate guild cohesion, not destroy it.
The game otherwise feels to be in a good place with a lot to look forward to - it would be a huge own goal if large swathes of guilds were broken apart without getting the chance to collectively enjoy all that is planned!
Xx
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Replies
now i'm not saying this was their intention or plan, but the current situation also leads the community in that direction. i would imagine that the gear change has done more to create more HSR guilds then the extra release of JTR.
Why merc when you can find a good, but maybe smaller guild? who says they are not creating more stable guilds that have a mutually beneficial situation vs a highly competitive one?
not everyone likes change and each raid we have seen things like this happen. this is the first time it has spread out players vs making a vacuum or players to make "super guilds".
And from the viewpoint from a guild on the verge of heroic but not quite there yet, I don't see the mass exodus from heroic guilds. We have even actively tried recruiting those higher level players wanting to be in the top of raid rewards. If the problem were as big as you seem to suggest, guilds our size would probably have more recruits wanting to help with the raid.
Every TW opponent we have faced for the last 10 wars has been significantly less powerful than our guild.
Why? We’re constantly down on members. For this particular TW, we were -5.
This meant that while we were matched with a team of equivalent GP, our 45 were more powerful than their 50, and boy did it show, they failed to clear a single zone whilst we wiped them out.
It’s not exactly fun for us and we’re constantly agonising over whether to set weaker zones. But it is no down dispiriting for those guilds who have to face us because they have no realistic chance for success.
And this has all come about because of the Sith raid, and punitive distribution of G12+ gear. Top players simple prefer to find smaller guilds so that they can finish in the Top 10 and grab those rewards.
So guilds such as mine have had months of recruitment agony... and we know we’re far from an exception here as we’ve witnessed the contraction of a number of others.
This is just so bad for the game and it’s all well and good CG changing the TW/TB start times to prevent Merc’ing but you’re not solving this, you’re merely papering over cracks.... you have to sort out that gear situation or this will continue, TW’s will suck, and players will quit
We’d be delighted to help players grow with us but there has to be a cut off.
Let’s say we took in a player who had only a handful of G11 characters. The tier we’re in for TW, they’d do well to ever win a battle. Would that be fun for them? Unlikely.
Would they ever cause a dent in the heroic Sith raid, such that they could earn more than 6 Traya shards from time to time? Impossible.
I’d like to think that everyone currently in our guild could, should they so choose to, put a shift in on the Sith raid such that they finish Top 10... we stagger our raid times too so that various time zones are catered for. But brining someone in who could never achieve that would be bad for all parties.
I’m all for developing and helping players. And my roster is far from perfect. But we need people who are at least within a certain range of our level otherwise they won’t get anything out of it themselves.
I call lies. You don't want them because they don't help the guild much. Saying that they get nothing out of it is pure lies.
As a high end guild you likely get 40+ stars in tb. While a low level player won't be able to contribute as much, they share in rewards. 7500+ guild event currency and the other rewards help them a lot.
For tw, your main point is that you are leaving defense empty to "give the opponent a chance" why not let lower level members in and let them set defense to contribute. The opponent still has to put a team up to clear it. And since they have worse teams, it gives you tbe challenge to have to do that much better to pull them along.
For Hstr many without traya would be more than happy to get 6 shards at a time until they build better teams.
We have lower limits to what new people we will accept too, but prentending it is for the good of the potential lower player is dishonest.
The suggestion I made would provide a challenge and help a newer player grow more quickly.
Edited to remove swearing shorthand. - EA_Cian
You find me a player without G12 characters who can take on any GP 175m guilds (guaranteed full G12 opponents with Arena mods on all defensive teams) and finish Top 10 in our Sith raid (10m score, or 15m-20m for top 3) and I’ll welcome them into the guild myself.
You can call **** if you want, but someone not at that standard will take no joy from our TW’s or raids. The best they can hope for is to passively acquire rewards, like those you highlighted from TB (no G12+ drops in TB’s by the way).
We literally don’t care what their Actual GP is though, trust me on that. We just care that they’re active and have a roster which can mix it with our level. If not, everybody loses.
- raid release: strong players group together in order to get traya asap
- raid on farm: strong-ish players join weaker guilds in order to get top ranks in raids
It has always been like this.I'm all for distributing rewards more equally for all ranks, but it's the "now" part that kinda rubs me the wrong way. Non-heroic guilds have been losing members ever since the raid was released..
too bad they butchered the initial raid reward rework, it had potential.
Trust me I'd back solving this problem to the hilt, and stand with you on it.
I've seen some sentiment on the forums and unofficial forums suggesting there's a sort of binary choice as to whether you're supportive of large or small guilds. You needn't choose, you can be supportive of both! It pains me to see guilds of all GP levels struggle.
My reason for raising this issue "now" is that it's something that impacts me personally now, or more accurately, has affected my guild for several months now as we've endured a lot of pain. With all the will in the world, I'm not fully tuned in to the issues of smaller guilds, nor am I the right girl to kick start posts on the subject, since I don't have my finger on the pulse there so to say.
Now, everyone will need g12+ gear forever. As such, the poor reward structure of the HSTR encourages the strongest in the guild to always attempt to stay ahead of their guild brethren finishing outside the top 10.
Yes, it is causing dissatisfaction and instability in guilds. No, CG/EA doesn't care.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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This is true - during the HAAT, once people had gotten their 7 star General Kenobi's, well they were more inclined to take a back seat and allow others to do the same. With G12+ pieces, this is far more of an ask. Asking players who've honed their team to perform well in raids to hold back never goes down well. Some are happy to, others less so because that's their end game content. But that shouldn't be asked of anyone, the game should be better designed such that people are able to play the game their way without any guilt of hampering others.
In a way it brings a balance. I know it sucks when your guild looses someone and has a hard time replacing them but guild turn over is part of the game.
Players will naturally move where tgey need to to grow the best. For some this will be banding together to maximize tw and tb rewards. Others more interested in scoring higher in the raids will find guilds where they are the big fish and bring guilds that aren't yet heroic to heroic by mercing.
It really depends on priority and play style and that is ok.
And there's always the option of setting a rotation. In a guild where everyone is capable of top ten scores, you can have everyone get top ten every 5th raid. I personally like the copetition in the guild better than thay but no one is atopping guilds from doing that.
Whenever some alliances / guilds fall apart, new ones are formed.
Like i said, i'm all for a more equal distribution of rewards for all ranks. I'm in a top200 guilds myself and i don't particulary like the current distribution.
It's just that we benefitted quite alot recruiting wise from being able to clear the HSR relatively quickly, so i've got mixed feelings about changing it now when it starts to potentially hurt the bigger guilds since it has been destructive for smaller guilds for so long already. It kinda feels fair that the smaller guilds are finally able to benefit from players moving the other way.
That said, we haven't lost a single member yet that went to a weaker gulid to get better raid rewards. Maybe they're more inclined to stay with us due to the better TW and TB rewards that come with being in a higher GP guild, i don't know.
I'm not sure what hasn't always been like this. I'm 100% certain that with each raid the same exact thing happened. Obviously rancor gear isn't as highly in demand currently as the g12+ gear, but back then it most certainly was. We also still need rancor gear, so that demand is also forever there.
One could argue that it wasn't always, or hasn't been at the time as bad as it is now. That might be true, but it's also irrelevant to the point i was trying to make.
Long story short, i welcomed the "eb and flow" of players when it was benefitting my guild, so i should be willing to deal with the consequenses when that same "eb and flow" is hurting my guild.
Again, i'm all for a more equal distribution of rewards for all ranks. It's just the reasoning behind the request i've got mixed feelings about.
I just don't like to compete with my guildmates for top rewards because it means they're getting significantly worse rewards. I do like to compete with my guildmates though, but the difference between #1 and #50 rewards (or top3 vs the rest, or top10 vs the rest) should be way smaller imo, for all raids. It's obviously also a balance, there still needs to be some incentive to play the raid instead of just logging 0's all the time.
regardless of what ea/cg does, there's always going to be dissatisfaction and instability in guilds. With a more equal distribution there will be posts popping up claiming they're carying their guild and the rewards don't reflect their effort compared to their slacking guildmates. No matter what your personal opinion on the matter is, both sides have valid arguments. I don't think it's due to lack of caring as much as it is because there's just no pleasing everyone. They also need to worry about other stuff like revenue, wich in most cases leads to dissatisfaction for atleast a portion of the playerbase.
Here is the thing. Surely having 10 active high GP players in a guild with 40 low activity 2 mil players is not how the game designers want it but that is what these rewards are making.
They have TB and TW modes which are based on the whole guild of 50 working together, but sith raid has pushed the opposite where its everyone trying to screw the others over. So you either push for TB/TW like they intended or not care about them and focus sith raid.
Oh but we should share the high level players between smaller guilds and help them. Well when new content comes out that needs a strong guild those 40 people in the guild will be ditched in seconds and wont be able to complete anything.
A game mode that gives friendly competition within in a guild is good but when it is made so people have to try and screw over their guild members it is a massive problem.
No guild getting destroyed is good for the game. That’s my base view.
From that base, I want to see the “system” benefit guilds and players of all sizes, GP agnostic.
But some people seem to have this view of “oh it’s the high GP guild’s turn to get screwed over” or the low GP or whatever, or just general destruction is somehow good... eh??
It has people taking entrenched positions against the common good, against the goal of having a guild system that works for all - not just the elite, not just those who pay, not just those who are casual, not just those who straddle between these categories.
But people seem fine with it all if it’s not their turn :-(
Could it be that tw and tb pushed mire mega guilds than they wanted so the designed the raid to counter balance that some?
Or could be they designed the content and didn't worry about how guilds pan out since they will eventually find an equilibrium size that works best for their individual members.
I was in a guild that ended up dying from the raid but it was more due to leadership not wanting to boot non participants than anything ea did. I moved on to another guild and managed to bring most of the leadership and active players over as well.
Guild destruction as you call it is more due to active players out growing inactive ones and will happen with any new content that requires active participation. So the only way to avoid that is to only have content that guild leaders are ok with people posting 0s on for lesd rewards.
Because as soon as you have content that requires a lot of time to beat with low participation or where the rewards are less with low participation, either inactive players are booted, or active players search out new guilds that boot inactive players. And in this process some guilds die. It is unavoidable and the price you pay for new content.
Your base view is admirable, but it's not easy to find a solution that benefits guilds from all walks of life. Flattening the rewards certainly won't do non-HRS ready guilds any favours recruiting/maintaining members wise for example. If anything it becomes more beneficial to join a HRS ready guild asap.
Regardless, i do want that change to happen. Not because we're losing members, but i just don't like my fortune in raids leading to the misfortune of my guildmates, or the other way around.
lowbies would be more than happy to get any traya shards at all lol they will be at the top of their arena if they can unlock traya and will hav a steady crystal income... isnt it better to be in rank 40-50 in hstr then being in top 10 t6?
Encouraging guild instability is not good for the game or its players.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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Exactly. Not to mention that the extra rewards from high stars in tb and high gp in tw would help them get a raid team to g12 pretty quickly. So it would be a big leg up for a lower gp player even while not being able to take a high rank in the raids, tw, or tb.
Pretending that their whale guild is selfless is just dishonest.
Our guild doesn't take players below a certain gp either. But I'm not going to pretend it wouldn't help them if we did.
We need players that can contribute to the raid since we don't have heroic on easy farm but we're close.