That video showing 15 million damage in p3 with nightsisters is *nearly* worthless

electricnick260

The entire setup relies on having good enough RNG to have traya NOT killing off your entire team at enraged. It will not be consistent. There's no way to make it consistent because of buff immunity at enraged. Traya can one hit kill everyone but ventress, and due to healing immunity even ventress with die fast.However if you want consistent and good damage the team will still do a solid 3-8 million. 8 million if you're lucky. I can pull off 3 million with undergeared nightsisters. From my own testing the following nightsister teams are optimal for damage output.Both teams use zeta talzin lead. I've not been able to properly test some of them because I'm still working on the gear, but one can assume based on the stats of the gear I have yet to get as well as the average attacks of each character at the higher gear levels, what will work. Also I know for certain the teams at the gear level I have them at still do really good damage

Character speed(after leadership is applied) gear level
Zeta Ventress 220 G12
Talia 210-230 G12
Nightsister Zombie 180 speed (more if able) G11
Nightsister Spirit 210-230 G12


Another team that should do well just swaps talia or nightsister spirit for acolyte, however this one may not do as well because talia's healing helps quite a bit before enraged. You do NOT want to use daka, her damage output is far too low to be helpful in a STR team. I only use her in raids for now because I haven't gotten off my lazy bum to level up spirit or talia fully. But the advertised 15 million damage shown in the video on youtube just won't be consistent and therefore is nearly worthless. Expect a maximum of 8 million damage. Use crit chance and crit damage mod sets when possible.

Waqui

So, Talia's healing is more valuable than Daka's TM generation? Interesting.

FailingCrab

But how does it work without Daka and Asajj bouncing the TM gains off of each other? I thought that was half the point of the team. Your way surely means that you get far fewer turns while Traya's toppled.

Firebrigade

Daka isn’t in there for the damage output, she’s in there for the TM gain so her and Ventress can go back and forth.

You also seem to be neglecting that Daka is zetad in the video, so she stacks a LOT of health, which is what allows them to keep going through enrage.

{EA_Lanna: edited to remove bait}

electricnick260

Waqui wrote: »

So, Talia's healing is more valuable than Daka's TM generation? Interesting.

FailingCrab wrote: »

But how does it work without Daka and Asajj bouncing the TM gains off of each other? I thought that was half the point of the team. Your way surely means that you get far fewer turns while Traya's toppled.

Gonna reply to both of you at once.
Yes, talia's healing is more valuable than daka's turn meter generation, because while talia is healing the team (and preventing bonds of weakness from needing to be used as frequently) she's also dealing more damage than daka would do. and you wouldn't necessarily get less turns. For starters, using daka for turn meter implies you want them to be permanently revived each time that they revive off of a basic attack. What you actually want to do is get talia killed, and maybe spirit or acolyte killed too (depending on which one you used) and then leave them dead. Ventress you want to keep alive at all costs. Then just focus on basic attacks on traya and kill the sabers with aoe and special attacks. I've done 3.5 million damage with bad rng and poor gear on this team in Tier 4, 2.6 million with poor gear and mods in tier 5.

electricnick260

Firebrigade wrote: »

Daka isn’t in there for the damage output, she’s in there for the TM gain so her and Ventress can go back and forth.

You also seem to be neglecting that Daka is zetad in the video, so she stacks a LOT of health, which is what allows them to keep going through enrage.

{EA_Lanna: edited to remove bait}

Daka gaining tons of health is completely pointless. She will still get absolutely ruined by enraged attacks, and therefore will die just as easily as without the zeta. If stacking health were really that helpful ventress would be much harder to kill as well, but even she dies fast.

{EA_Lanna: edited to remove bait}[/quote]

StarSon

electricnick260 wrote: »

... I've done 3.5 million damage with bad rng and poor gear on this team in Tier 4, 2.6 million with poor gear and mods in tier 5.

There's a lot of your problem. The video is for heroic, and not using poor gear or mods.

electricnick260

StarSon wrote: »

electricnick260 wrote: »

... I've done 3.5 million damage with bad rng and poor gear on this team in Tier 4, 2.6 million with poor gear and mods in tier 5.

There's a lot of your problem. The video is for heroic, and not using poor gear or mods.

Except this damage with poor gear and mods completely confirms that with good gear and mods it would do far better, and be heroic viable.

Firebrigade

electricnick260 wrote: »

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Daka gaining tons of health is completely pointless. She will still get absolutely ruined by enraged attacks, and therefore will die just as easily as without the zeta. If stacking health were really that helpful ventress would be much harder to kill as well, but even she dies fast. Before you go spitting insults, try to acknowledge what I'm saying first. And be polite if you want to point out flawed logic. Respect and decency are not rocket science

I acknowledged what you said, and then said you were wrong. Your tone invited my tone. If you don’t want to get met with hostility, don’t come in here acting like everyone else is doing something wrong and you’ve got all the answers. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Daka’s extra survivability doesn’t just make a big difference in lasting through those first few hits in enrage, it helps continue to bounce rezes around...but hey...if you're content with your 3mil, you just keep doing you.

FailingCrab

electricnick260 wrote: »

Waqui wrote: »

So, Talia's healing is more valuable than Daka's TM generation? Interesting.

FailingCrab wrote: »

But how does it work without Daka and Asajj bouncing the TM gains off of each other? I thought that was half the point of the team. Your way surely means that you get far fewer turns while Traya's toppled.

Gonna reply to both of you at once.
Yes, talia's healing is more valuable than daka's turn meter generation, because while talia is healing the team (and preventing bonds of weakness from needing to be used as frequently) she's also dealing more damage than daka would do. and you wouldn't necessarily get less turns. For starters, using daka for turn meter implies you want them to be permanently revived each time that they revive off of a basic attack. What you actually want to do is get talia killed, and maybe spirit or acolyte killed too (depending on which one you used) and then leave them dead. Ventress you want to keep alive at all costs. Then just focus on basic attacks on traya and kill the sabers with aoe and special attacks. I've done 3.5 million damage with bad rng and poor gear on this team in Tier 4, 2.6 million with poor gear and mods in tier 5.

The way you've written this reply makes me think that you're not seeing the true potential of Daka in this team. She's not there for damage, she's there so that each time anyone uses a basic she gets 50% TM. The nightsisters don't have to be 'permanently revived' for Daka and Talzin to get the TM gain. This allows her to take turns quicker than anyone else would and feed an extra 35% TM to Asajj each time. Sure, Talia's basic does more damage but the damage output in this team comes from Asajj, everyone else is pretty much irrelevant. Asajj taking more turns with Daka in the team far outweighs Talia doing slightly more damage than Daka.

Waqui

electricnick260 wrote: »

Waqui wrote: »

So, Talia's healing is more valuable than Daka's TM generation? Interesting.

FailingCrab wrote: »

But how does it work without Daka and Asajj bouncing the TM gains off of each other? I thought that was half the point of the team. Your way surely means that you get far fewer turns while Traya's toppled.

[...] For starters, using daka for turn meter implies you want them to be permanently revived each time that they revive off of a basic attack. What you actually want to do is get talia killed, and maybe spirit or acolyte killed too (depending on which one you used) and then leave them dead. Ventress you want to keep alive at all costs. Then just focus on basic attacks on traya and kill the sabers with aoe and special attacks. I've done 3.5 million damage with bad rng and poor gear on this team in Tier 4, 2.6 million with poor gear and mods in tier 5.

How on earth would using Daka make MT / Initiate revive permanently? That makes no sense at all. They only revive permanently if the target dies, and as you write yoyrself: Kill sabers usin Asajj' AoE, and do basics on Traya.

So, you're concluding, that the strategy for heroic tier, which is what that video displayed, is bad and you base that on your results from tier 4 and 5? A few days ago I did more than 7 million on tier 5 on my alt using MT, Asajj, zombie and Daka and initiate. You must have screwed your own attempts up if doing only 2.6 million.

Waqui

electricnick260 wrote: »

Firebrigade wrote: »

Daka isn’t in there for the damage output, she’s in there for the TM gain so her and Ventress can go back and forth.

You also seem to be neglecting that Daka is zetad in the video, so she stacks a LOT of health, which is what allows them to keep going through enrage.

{EA_Lanna: edited to remove bait}

Daka gaining tons of health is completely pointless. She will still get absolutely ruined by enraged attacks, and therefore will die just as easily as without the zeta. If stacking health were really that helpful ventress would be much harder to kill as well, but even she dies fast.

{EA_Lanna: edited to remove bait}

[/quote]

You completely missed the main point:

Daka is not there for damage. She's there because she applies a debuff with her basic, which is then resisted and subsequently generates TM for the whole team.

You can't simply conclude anything about the performance on heroic based on the performance on tier 4 and 5. Even if you could, my alt's team which included Daka and Initiate outperformed your team by far on tier 5. Something is way off in your tests.
{EA_Lanna: edited to remove bait}

Bulldog1205

Video creator here. You very clearly don’t understand the mechanics. Others have tried explaining but you don’t seem to grasp it. I’m not going to bother repeating what they’ve said, but I just wanted to say they are right. Daka is a must.

As for consistency, it’s better than you think. So far I’ve run this team I think 8 or 9 times. I’ve had runs of over 7 million, 10 million, and 15 million. The rest have been restarts shortly into the run. My sample size is small, but so far it’s been much more reliable than a Chex Mix Run. Yes, the RNG to get 15 million was good (although not perfect by any means. I still think I can double that score on a lucky as hell run). The RNG to get 8-10 million doesn’t have to be all that great. I had terrible luck (and a few poor decisions) in my 7 million run video where I showed the mechanics.

Terror

You’re basing your experience off of t5 and you do t have daka zetad or talzin.
And the more you talk about this, the more it seems like you have no idea how the zzasajj, ztalzin, zdaka, Talia, and LOW GEAR zombie work.
Go watch skelturix solo nihilus in p1 without traya or acolyte.

mikk207

I have run this team 3 times on heroic tier and for me it is a brilliant team and I seem to get consistent results.
First run was around 7m, then 8m, the last one was 9,5m.
I am getting used to the enrage part it seems.
Rng is clearly involved, especially at the start and in the end but I enjoy this team much more than this pesky chexmix team.

As others have stated, daka is necessary for her tm gain.

mikk207

And a big "thanks" to the creator of this team and the people who made it public
for a bit of enjoyment in the sith raid .