Sion vs gmt

I just got my sion to 4*, he's g9.

I run zEp(L), thrawn, Vader (all of them 7* g10), dn (4* g10) and currently gmt (7* g10). All modded with about 50-70+ speed. I'm in a March 2018 shard and usually run in the 100's for arena (which I'm OK with).

Is sion that much better than gmt? My sion as modded has better speed (185 vs 173), better survivability (44k vs 36k), but his damage output is going to definitely be less and I love the turn meter reduction that gmt does... Basically, I use thrawn to swap tm with gmt move #1 and use gmt's two specials, then start the tm train from there, so as long as my thrawn is faster than their ep/thrawn I win. I guess sion would work better for the bastilla leads I've been facing as well. Am I missing another big advantage of sion? Is held by hatred really game over once you can get to it? I've watch the videos from game changers whom all fawn over him. I've omega'd his aoe, I can omega the other skills but haven't seen the utility, and have more important zetas. Any insight would be appreciated

https://swgoh.gg/u/thedrjojo/collection/

Replies

  • He'll be worth it if you zeta him and paired with dn basically.
  • CHFC22 wrote: »
    He'll be worth it if you zeta him and paired with dn basically.

    Held by hatred zeta? Does that 3 turns of pain inflicted on anyone that damaged him make that much of a difference? I'll play around with him I guess. I know he's one mad mother but I guess I just need to figure out how to best use him. Swapped some mods from gmt to him and bumped his speed up to 195 and upped his offense
  • CHFC22
    732 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Deleted
  • thedrjojo wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    He'll be worth it if you zeta him and paired with dn basically.

    Held by hatred zeta? Does that 3 turns of pain inflicted on anyone that damaged him make that much of a difference? I'll play around with him I guess. I know he's one mad mother but I guess I just need to figure out how to best use him. Swapped some mods from gmt to him and bumped his speed up to 195 and upped his offense

    Yes it makes all the difference in getting him to HbH a lot sooner.
  • thedrjojo wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    He'll be worth it if you zeta him and paired with dn basically.

    Held by hatred zeta? Does that 3 turns of pain inflicted on anyone that damaged him make that much of a difference? I'll play around with him I guess. I know he's one mad mother but I guess I just need to figure out how to best use him. Swapped some mods from gmt to him and bumped his speed up to 195 and upped his offense

    He's trash without it, he's a beast with it.
  • Give him the zeta, then your team will be much more annoying to pay agiasnt
  • thedrjojo
    949 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Is the zeta more important than thrawn's? What about cls or r2d2? Kylo? Im only on my 2nd zeta, so as I said, I got a lot to zeta still. But with ep/vader/thrawn/dn/ds team, I'm probably guessing zeta on the arena team more important than those others (which I don't have yet, but will whenever his event comes back)
  • thedrjojo wrote: »
    Is the zeta more important than thrawn's? What about cls or r2d2? Kylo? Im only on my 2nd zeta, so as I said, I got a lot to zeta still. But with ep/vader/thrawn/dn/ds team, I'm probably guessing zeta on the arena team more important than those others (which I don't have yet, but will whenever his event comes back)

    Thrawn's are good but not great, and definitely not necessary. Assuming you have EP's lead done already Sion's would be the next to do for that team.
  • kevsmart wrote: »
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    Is the zeta more important than thrawn's? What about cls or r2d2? Kylo? Im only on my 2nd zeta, so as I said, I got a lot to zeta still. But with ep/vader/thrawn/dn/ds team, I'm probably guessing zeta on the arena team more important than those others (which I don't have yet, but will whenever his event comes back)

    Thrawn's are good but not great, and definitely not necessary. Assuming you have EP's lead done already Sion's would be the next to do for that team.

    Yeah, ep lead was my first. OK. I'm a few mats away, so I'll play around with him before the zeta and feel it out.

    Are his omegas worth it? I have his aoe omega'd but the other two don't seem worth it (can't be evaded might be nice).
  • thedrjojo wrote: »
    kevsmart wrote: »
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    Is the zeta more important than thrawn's? What about cls or r2d2? Kylo? Im only on my 2nd zeta, so as I said, I got a lot to zeta still. But with ep/vader/thrawn/dn/ds team, I'm probably guessing zeta on the arena team more important than those others (which I don't have yet, but will whenever his event comes back)

    Thrawn's are good but not great, and definitely not necessary. Assuming you have EP's lead done already Sion's would be the next to do for that team.

    Yeah, ep lead was my first. OK. I'm a few mats away, so I'll play around with him before the zeta and feel it out.

    Are his omegas worth it? I have his aoe omega'd but the other two don't seem worth it (can't be evaded might be nice).

    Your arena team should nearly always be fully omega'd, the exceptions being things like leader abilities on toons who aren't your leader or something wimpy like 5% more damage on someone who already hits as hard as a paper airplane. Pay special attention to DN's omega on Annihilate, toons can be revived without it.
  • kevsmart wrote: »
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    kevsmart wrote: »
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    Is the zeta more important than thrawn's? What about cls or r2d2? Kylo? Im only on my 2nd zeta, so as I said, I got a lot to zeta still. But with ep/vader/thrawn/dn/ds team, I'm probably guessing zeta on the arena team more important than those others (which I don't have yet, but will whenever his event comes back)

    Thrawn's are good but not great, and definitely not necessary. Assuming you have EP's lead done already Sion's would be the next to do for that team.

    Yeah, ep lead was my first. OK. I'm a few mats away, so I'll play around with him before the zeta and feel it out.

    Are his omegas worth it? I have his aoe omega'd but the other two don't seem worth it (can't be evaded might be nice).

    Your arena team should nearly always be fully omega'd, the exceptions being things like leader abilities on toons who aren't your leader or something wimpy like 5% more damage on someone who already hits as hard as a paper airplane. Pay special attention to DN's omega on Annihilate, toons can be revived without it.

    Ep except let the hate flow (I rarely use that skill, it is lvl7 though), thrawn, Vader, and Dn are fully omega'd except leader abilities as you said (which are level 3 except DN is level 6 cause for phase 1 of sith raid that's more useful than ep lead). Gmt is fully omega'd as well.

    Sion basic adds dispel to him if target already has pain, and special 2 adds can't be evaded. I can see utility with both of them, just was wondering if people found them helpful (special 1, his aoe, reduces cool down for aoe so definitely useful so I already omega'd it).
  • HK666
    1263 posts Member
    Sion's Zeta- turns him into an absolute beast, as it's much harder to drop his taunt, and he gets to his buff faster

    Basic Omega- depends on who your fighting. Some teams aren't debuff heavy, so it won't matter much. Against teams that are debuff heavy, shaking off the debuffs can make Sion hard to pin down. Sometimes other Zpalp teams benifit more from Sion cleansing than he does

    Break Will Omega- Sometimes a resistance or jedi unit is within killing range, but has foresight. That's when your grateful for this omega. If your fighting neither team, then probably not

    Sion v Tarkin- Tarkin applies more debuffs and follows that up w TMR, reinforced by his tenacity up and is quite awesome at getting your team ahead because of the debuffs and manipulation, Sion is a tank, so he'll soak damage (you may want to consider adding Shore or SiT once you get them, cuz he's not uber tough until he buffs), and he'll clear buffs with his aoe. Debuffing him will boost DN and if the enemy focus DN they'll boost Sion. Sion takes the cake in my eyes, but Tarkin is a worthy unit on a Palp team if that double skill dump can put them far enough ahead

  • HK666 wrote: »
    Sion's Zeta- turns him into an absolute beast, as it's much harder to drop his taunt, and he gets to his buff faster

    Basic Omega- depends on who your fighting. Some teams aren't debuff heavy, so it won't matter much. Against teams that are debuff heavy, shaking off the debuffs can make Sion hard to pin down. Sometimes other Zpalp teams benifit more from Sion cleansing than he does

    Break Will Omega- Sometimes a resistance or jedi unit is within killing range, but has foresight. That's when your grateful for this omega. If your fighting neither team, then probably not

    Sion v Tarkin- Tarkin applies more debuffs and follows that up w TMR, reinforced by his tenacity up and is quite awesome at getting your team ahead because of the debuffs and manipulation, Sion is a tank, so he'll soak damage (you may want to consider adding Shore or SiT once you get them, cuz he's not uber tough until he buffs), and he'll clear buffs with his aoe. Debuffing him will boost DN and if the enemy focus DN they'll boost Sion. Sion takes the cake in my eyes, but Tarkin is a worthy unit on a Palp team if that double skill dump can put them far enough ahead

    Didn't think about foresight... With more bastilla teams showing up, that might be a great omega...
  • Sions zeta is mandatory on a Sith team and transforms him. Should be second zeta on that team.

    In fact on my Sith team I hold top 100 on an old shard with only EP lead and Sion zetas. The rest are helpful but not necessary.
  • VonZant wrote: »
    Sions zeta is mandatory on a Sith team and transforms him. Should be second zeta on that team.

    In fact on my Sith team I hold top 100 on an old shard with only EP lead and Sion zetas. The rest are helpful but not necessary.

    Thanks. You all convinced me to use my next zeta on him. Hoping to Crack top 100 with him on my team now
  • Sion's zeta totally changes how you have to play a nightmare team. Especially when it comes to AoE attacks. Mirror matches are especially tricky because the usual start of Force Crush > Sabre Throw means you're always throwing the sabre at Sion instead of one of the squishier members of the team (EP for example).

    It also means you're better off using EP's basic on Sion to nullify the taunt instead of mass stunning the other side. And any time you can prevent Palpatine's mass stun, the better.
  • Zimp sion nihilus thrawn vader/nest are a team of the past.

    Right now bastila teams with 20 speed run over your 120 speed team. Bastila lead completely devaluates all stats on all your mods as they have 150% tenacity (efficiency doesnt matter, when you get 120% they just need a tenacity cross and thats it...), speed doesnt matter as they get 15% extra, hp doesnt matter as they get 200% extra.

    Just Traya is left to at least give mods a difference...this whole Bastila feast is rubbish as they win on auto vs basically all teams except traya lead
  • XKurareX wrote: »
    Zimp sion nihilus thrawn vader/nest are a team of the past.

    Right now bastila teams with 20 speed run over your 120 speed team. Bastila lead completely devaluates all stats on all your mods as they have 150% tenacity (efficiency doesnt matter, when you get 120% they just need a tenacity cross and thats it...), speed doesnt matter as they get 15% extra, hp doesnt matter as they get 200% extra.

    Just Traya is left to at least give mods a difference...this whole Bastila feast is rubbish as they win on auto vs basically all teams except traya lead

    On offense - they also don't held that well on defense as the AI runs them pretty poorly. Many different non-traya teams can do well against them. Mother Talzin is calling, she'd like to introduce you to plague. JTR is on line 2, she's rambling on about 'irresistible exposes' or some such thing.
  • HK666
    1263 posts Member
    I run the team you described, and regularly beat Bastila teams on offense. Vader is a reliable ability block on the tanks (no mind trick/taunt), Thrawn holds GK down, Sion dispels, Palp lets them run their protection to the ground. DN just kinda chills and annihilates, but thats usually not the determining factor

    I can totally see how Bastila would run over my team on D, even if the attacker just hit auto
  • Yeah, I haven't faced unbeatable bastilla teams yet. I'm a younger shard (March 2018) and I rank in the 100's, so I don't face gk or Hoda... But I fracture gmy and then outlast the protection... Vader blocks old Ben, dn will eventually annihilate gmy or Ezra, and no one else can do enough to hurt my team.
  • To chime in, I run a Nightmare team and have faced a few different Bastila leads. The only one that's given me enough trouble that I can't beat them is one with considerably faster mods than I have. So speed is definitely relevant, even with Bastila.

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