September Event Calendar - Multiple errors, please help!

@CG_TopHat

I was reviewing the September Events calendar to identify when my guild can actually remove underperforming members and recruit new members without requiring anyone to lose out on TW or TB rewards (which was impossible after the last TW because of the overlap).

The schedule, as currently listed, has multiple errors and inconsistencies, and it's impossible for me to accurately plan member movement. Can your team please do a review of the calendar, and hopefully insert some time for players to move? Right now, based on the changing times that TWs and TBs start/end, coupled with the inaccuracies in the calendar, it's impossible to plan when a gap will occur.

Examples:
"Rebel Assault:
Starts: September 4th
Ends: September 9th - Phase 6 will actually end on September 10th.

Imperial Retaliation:
Starts: September 12th - Will this overlap with War 2, which ends Sept 12th? Impossible to tell.
Ends: September 17th - Phase 6 will actually end September 18th.

Rebel Assault:
Starts: September 24th
Ends: September 29th - Phase 6 will actually end September 30th

If you really insist on having TBs and TWs start and end the same day, at least cut the initial phases down by a few hours to allow for movement. I doubt many guilds would feel that 20 hours to complete phase 1 of a TB (instead of 24 hours) would be a burden.

Thank you,

Replies

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Those are not errors and if you review all the other calendars the ending date is always listed as such.

    They may change it in the future for clarity, as this was flagged, but it has always been listed this way.

    The calendar was condensed to fit in the extra TB, this will not be a regular thing, and it is unlikely to change anything this month.
  • Ugh, because you moved this while I was typing my reply, my entire reply didn't post and now I have to re-type the whole thing @Kyno . Perhaps that can be another feedback for the "website".

    Also, I disagree that this is "forum & website feedback". You say their schedule isn't an error, which makes this feedback on their terrible overlapping schedule.

    It would only belong in the website feedback section if you believe their website is in error, and it's really just that the Devs are too lazy to actually type the correct end of events.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Those are not errors and if you review all the other calendars the ending date is always listed as such.

    They may change it in the future for clarity, as this was flagged, but it has always been listed this way.

    The calendar was condensed to fit in the extra TB, this will not be a regular thing, and it is unlikely to change anything this month.

    Just because they typed the ending dates incorrectly in the past, doesn't make it "not an error." They list the TBs as ending on a date, but that date is inaccurate.

    Saying that it's flagged for review is actually a pretty telling revelation - typing the correct dates doesn't require coding, bug testing, or development - it just requires looking at a calendar and typing an accurate number. The fact that months of feedback and they can't get it right is not flattering.

    As far as I can interpret from the schedule, members of my guild who were with me on September 1st have to stay until September 20th if they don't want to miss out on any TB/TW rewards. If I want to boot someone, I can't do so without denying them one of those rewards. This is not fair to my guild members - both the ones I want to remove, and the ones who are going to remain, but are suffering right now due to the underperforming members. Because the Devs scheduled overlapping guild results, I now have to pick and choose which population suffers.

    Territory Wars already start at differing times (noon, 1pm, or 2pm CDT), so why not start a TB later in order to insert a gap? It's a fairly easy solution that wouldn't even require them to change the calendar. Please don't dismiss an idea out of hand.
  • for some reason i cant find the September Calender, but none of those errors are actually errors. (except maybe the TW2 and TB2 one).

    For example, TB lasts for 6 days so 24, 25 26 27 28 29.

    So the Calendar is correct for those things.
  • swgohfan29 wrote: »
    for some reason i cant find the September Calender, but none of those errors are actually errors. (except maybe the TW2 and TB2 one).

    For example, TB lasts for 6 days so 24, 25 26 27 28 29.

    So the Calendar is correct for those things.

    Incorrect.
    Phase 1 - Starts 24, ends 25 (24-25)
    Phase 2 - 25-26
    Phase 3 - 26-27
    Phase 4 - 27-28
    Phase 5 - 28-29
    Phase 6 - 29-30
  • jkray622 wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    for some reason i cant find the September Calender, but none of those errors are actually errors. (except maybe the TW2 and TB2 one).

    For example, TB lasts for 6 days so 24, 25 26 27 28 29.

    So the Calendar is correct for those things.

    Incorrect.
    Phase 1 - Starts 24, ends 25 (24-25)
    Phase 2 - 25-26
    Phase 3 - 26-27
    Phase 4 - 27-28
    Phase 5 - 28-29
    Phase 6 - 29-30

    um. no. i think.

    its 24.00 to 24.99 then 25.00 to 25.99

    and so on.
  • swgohfan29 wrote: »
    jkray622 wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    for some reason i cant find the September Calender, but none of those errors are actually errors. (except maybe the TW2 and TB2 one).

    For example, TB lasts for 6 days so 24, 25 26 27 28 29.

    So the Calendar is correct for those things.

    Incorrect.
    Phase 1 - Starts 24, ends 25 (24-25)
    Phase 2 - 25-26
    Phase 3 - 26-27
    Phase 4 - 27-28
    Phase 5 - 28-29
    Phase 6 - 29-30

    um. no. i think.

    its 24.00 to 24.99 then 25.00 to 25.99

    and so on.

    There is one time zone in the world this would be true (and even then, it doesn't end at 2359, it would end at 0000 which is still the next day).
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Ugh, because you moved this while I was typing my reply, my entire reply didn't post and now I have to re-type the whole thing Kyno . Perhaps that can be another feedback for the "website".

    Also, I disagree that this is "forum & website feedback". You say their schedule isn't an error, which makes this feedback on their terrible overlapping schedule.

    It would only belong in the website feedback section if you believe their website is in error, and it's really just that the Devs are too lazy to actually type the correct end of events.

    Your issue was with the clarity on the calendar which is posted to the website.

    Again, this is how every calendar has been posted and you didnt seem to have any confusion up to this one.
  • ok i guess the devs are planning by that time zone then! Are you literally haggling over a second.

    Also, what do you think is more misleading:

    Ends at 30th Sept 0000 writes "ends at 29th Sept"
    Ends at 30th Sept 0000 writes "ends at 30th Sept"
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Those are not errors and if you review all the other calendars the ending date is always listed as such.

    They may change it in the future for clarity, as this was flagged, but it has always been listed this way.

    The calendar was condensed to fit in the extra TB, this will not be a regular thing, and it is unlikely to change anything this month.

    Just because they typed the ending dates incorrectly in the past, doesn't make it "not an error." They list the TBs as ending on a date, but that date is inaccurate.

    Saying that it's flagged for review is actually a pretty telling revelation - typing the correct dates doesn't require coding, bug testing, or development - it just requires looking at a calendar and typing an accurate number. The fact that months of feedback and they can't get it right is not flattering.

    As far as I can interpret from the schedule, members of my guild who were with me on September 1st have to stay until September 20th if they don't want to miss out on any TB/TW rewards. If I want to boot someone, I can't do so without denying them one of those rewards. This is not fair to my guild members - both the ones I want to remove, and the ones who are going to remain, but are suffering right now due to the underperforming members. Because the Devs scheduled overlapping guild results, I now have to pick and choose which population suffers.

    Territory Wars already start at differing times (noon, 1pm, or 2pm CDT), so why not start a TB later in order to insert a gap? It's a fairly easy solution that wouldn't even require them to change the calendar. Please don't dismiss an idea out of hand.

    They type the ending day as the start of the last phase, this is in no way an error, past or present. It is the correct starting date of the ending day. Just like the starting date is the correct date of the start of the first day. It may be unclear, but it is not incorrect.

    It was flagged for clarity, as it is correct but can be an odd way to word it. Still doesnt make it incorrect.

    Sorry, I have not seen mo this of feedback that this is unclear, but I could be wrong.

    How you interpret this schedule is great feedback and can be helpful in making things more clear for all parties involved. Thank you. How you manage your guild and the players involved in your group is not a scheduling issue. They cannot plan events around the possibility of someone being removed from a guild.

    I was only pointing out they are not likely to change the current event schedule timing at this time.
  • UdalCuain
    4996 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    UK here, current TW will indeed finish on 10th September, at 18:00. No gaps is a pain. As much as I would rather battle for my rewards, I think they dropped a ball with this schedule.

    @swgohfan29 Where do phases reset at midnight? Just out of curiosity.
  • swgohfan29 wrote: »
    ok i guess the devs are planning by that time zone then! Are you literally haggling over a second.

    That timezone is in part of Russia and kazakhstan/turkmenistan/Kyrgyzstan etc. Outside of those countries it's not used. Why do you think the devs would be working to that timezone?
    https://swgoh.gg/u/ionastarbound/
    Discord: Iona Starbound#5299
  • swgohfan29 wrote: »
    ok i guess the devs are planning by that time zone then! Are you literally haggling over a second.

    That timezone is in part of Russia and kazakhstan/turkmenistan/Kyrgyzstan etc. Outside of those countries it's not used. Why do you think the devs would be working to that timezone?

    And I think based on the international dateline, it was actually midnight on 9/5/18 when the TB started, which would have made the starting date incorrect for that time zone as well, lol.
  • jkray622
    1636 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Kyno wrote: »
    I was only pointing out they are not likely to change the current event schedule timing at this time.

    They are unlikely to change the current event schedule unless a large chunk of the community complains about the inconvenience. Unfortunately, moving this thread to the "Forums & Website Feedback" section makes it less likely to be seen by the general population.

    It should be very easy for them to change starting times of the guild events to accommodate player movements. It just seems like the whole thing is poorly considered with respect to the player base.

    They rescheduled the TB because of their patch schedule, and they felt the patch would break the TB.
    They compressed the schedule (and stealth-removed a TW) to avoid giving us the free compensation.
    They are now inconveniencing a certain percentage of the population by overlapping events.
    These problems are all of their own making - they could have timed the patch between events, or just cancelled a TW (since they cancelled one anyway) and installed it then.

    I can think of several solutions that would fix the overlapping events problem.
    1. Push the start time for the events back a few hours to give a gap for player movement.
    2. Make the "player lock" for a TB at the conclusion of Phase 1, similar to the preview phase of a TW. Meaning that you aren't locked into a guild (and that guild's reward) until phase 1 is over.
    3. Shift the dates out so that the TW preview phase starts the day that TB phase 6 ends (rather than phase 5).
    4. Alternatively, overlap a TB/TW more - set the preview phase concurrent with TB phase 5, then TW setup concurrent with TB phase 6, and once the TB ends, have the attack phase the day after, and then a day off.

    Nothing will change if the Devs think that this current schedule is acceptable. Edit: But since this is in the Website/Feedback Section, maybe it could be moved to the "schedule feedback" or "guild events" feedback, or somewhere that the Devs and player base are more likely to see it, like the "General" section?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Your post was moved here because it is feedback about the calendar being unclear. As you are trying to state it has multiple errors. Since the calendar has no errors and simply lists the starting date of the phases, it is not incorrect, but simply unclear.

    I understand this is an inconvenience for you, but the schedule has been posted for 10 days and we have already gone through 1 of the transitions. Yes people posted about it. As you can see here:
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/181148/tb-tw-overlapped#latest

    This was still in GD but has slipped to the second page, because it doesnt seem to be a huge community issue. Please add a comment there and see if you can light the fire, but it seems to have burnt out already.
  • Sadly, I already did comment on that - and that was before realizing that EA is locking my guild membership for another 2+ weeks with their terrible planning.

    Maybe all 47 inconvenienced members of my guild can put in customer support tickets asking for compensation for the reduced rewards we will get due to the overlapping results. We might at least get crystals out of the deal.

    Maybe if everyone here asks their guild to do the same thing, EA might get the message.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Examples:
    "Rebel Assault:
    Starts: September 4th
    Ends: September 9th - Phase 6 will actually end on September 10th.

    Imperial Retaliation:
    Starts: September 12th - Will this overlap with War 2, which ends Sept 12th? Impossible to tell.
    Ends: September 17th - Phase 6 will actually end September 18th.

    Rebel Assault:
    Starts: September 24th
    Ends: September 29th - Phase 6 will actually end September 30th

    Check your previous event calendars. Those are not errors. This is simply the format that has always been used.

    Furthermore, a 24h event is only listed by its starting date, not the date it ends.

    It has always been like this. This is just the format. When planning take the format into consideration.

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    jkray622 wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    for some reason i cant find the September Calender, but none of those errors are actually errors. (except maybe the TW2 and TB2 one).

    For example, TB lasts for 6 days so 24, 25 26 27 28 29.

    So the Calendar is correct for those things.

    Incorrect.
    Phase 1 - Starts 24, ends 25 (24-25)
    Phase 2 - 25-26
    Phase 3 - 26-27
    Phase 4 - 27-28
    Phase 5 - 28-29
    Phase 6 - 29-30

    This the good old '5—fingers—but—only—4—spaces—in—between—fingers' discusdion all over again. The calendar lists the starting date of every phase or event. It doesn't show the duration — that each even—day runs for 24 hours.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    jkray622 wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    for some reason i cant find the September Calender, but none of those errors are actually errors. (except maybe the TW2 and TB2 one).

    For example, TB lasts for 6 days so 24, 25 26 27 28 29.

    So the Calendar is correct for those things.

    Incorrect.
    Phase 1 - Starts 24, ends 25 (24-25)
    Phase 2 - 25-26
    Phase 3 - 26-27
    Phase 4 - 27-28
    Phase 5 - 28-29
    Phase 6 - 29-30

    This the good old '5—fingers—but—only—4—spaces—in—between—fingers' discusdion all over again. The calendar lists the starting date of every phase or event. It doesn't show the duration — that each even—day runs for 24 hours.

    You are completely missing the main point. It's not whether the calendar is wrong or not, it's the fact no one can move guilds until the 20th with losing one reward or another. Also makes recruitment very difficult.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Waqui wrote: »
    jkray622 wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    for some reason i cant find the September Calender, but none of those errors are actually errors. (except maybe the TW2 and TB2 one).

    For example, TB lasts for 6 days so 24, 25 26 27 28 29.

    So the Calendar is correct for those things.

    Incorrect.
    Phase 1 - Starts 24, ends 25 (24-25)
    Phase 2 - 25-26
    Phase 3 - 26-27
    Phase 4 - 27-28
    Phase 5 - 28-29
    Phase 6 - 29-30

    This the good old '5—fingers—but—only—4—spaces—in—between—fingers' discusdion all over again. The calendar lists the starting date of every phase or event. It doesn't show the duration — that each even—day runs for 24 hours.

    You are completely missing the main point. It's not whether the calendar is wrong or not, it's the fact no one can move guilds until the 20th with losing one reward or another. Also makes recruitment very difficult.

    OP calls the event calendar erroneous. His main point is, that he can not plan due to those errors. OP is wrong. OP should learn what format the calendar uses, adapt and consider this format when planning.
  • Waqui wrote: »

    OP calls the event calendar erroneous. His main point is, that he can not plan due to those errors. OP is wrong. OP should learn what format the calendar uses, adapt and consider this format when planning.

    OP is NOT wrong. Calendar says the Territory Battle "Ends September 9th". It does not. Period. There may not be a single time zone in the world where it is still September 9th when that event ends. Their calendar does not say "the final phase starts on September 9th." Languages were developed to clearly communicate. In this case, the calendar does no clearly communicate when the event ends, and is actually providing incorrect information.

    The resulting complaint (as ChristophIV said) is that the compressed schedule is adversely affecting my guild, and other guilds who want to recruit. I charitably assume the calendar schedule was a mistake, and am trying to bring it to the developer's attention so they can adjust the calendar or provide other solutions that will allow player movement between events without penalizing players.

    If the intent of the Developers is to hurt guilds, then they have succeeded with this calendar.

    And also, Waqui, with respect to my ability to plan based on the calendar, we do not know what time the various TBs and TWs start, since the times are not static - and that also makes planning impossible given the lack of calendar days between events. So right now I'm assuming the worst case - that the events with no calendar days between will also overlap like two days ago. My "plan" is that my guild will be basically static until 9/20, which is very frustrating as a guild leader who has several open spots.

  • Just because they have always typed them out incorrectly does not make them "not errors." I have pointed out these date inconsistencies in the past.

    Flagging them and not changing them is just lazy. This doesn't require coding, bug testing, or development - it just literally requires people to actually type the date that an event ends. In a previous month, they even typed the ending time...on the wrong date...

    I realize they condensed the schedule to fit in the extra TB. I know it's just a special thing this month (unless they do it again in future months for similar reasons). (I also noticed that they cut out a TW in order to "condense" the schedule, but they aren't advertising the fact that everyone is missing out a TW reward).

    Regardless of their reasons, it still looks like between September 1-20th, I cannot move players without preventing their receipt of TB/TW rewards. This also means that recruitment of new players will be slowed down, because few people will be voluntarily leaving guilds almost this whole month.

    They already move the TW start times around by an hour or two - why not do the same here to insert gaps?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    The starting date for the phases are listed and are 100% correct.

    It was flagged because this question came up, and as it is 100% not wrong, the need to change the current style of doing it was not necessary for this current version, but the request for clarity has been made.

    Not every guild moves people. It is unfortunate they didnt check with you before making the schedule for everyone, but to say they did this with any intent to hurt the players is just a joke.

    The previous 2 months we had 4 TW, this month we have 5...... where did they cut one out? My math shows they added one.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    as it is 100% not wrong

    We are just going to have to agree to disagree about their calendar. If I were to tell you your job were to end on September 9th, you wouldn't assume that you should still come in and work the last shift from September 9-10th. You would work the shift from Sept 8-9, and then your job would "end." So when EA tells me the TB ends on 9/9, that is what those words mean. The way it was written has a perfectly legitimate and reasonable interpretation opposite of what they intended, which means it by definition cannot be 100% accurate.

    The lack of an Oxford comma has cost companies millions of dollars in improper usage, and this is a much more egregious abuse of the English language. Just as EA tries to use very specific language in the in-game description of skills (e.g. all allies vs all other allies), they should be very specific in all public communications.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Not every guild moves people. It is unfortunate they didn't check with you before making the schedule for everyone, but to say they did this with any intent to hurt the players is just a joke.

    That is why I said they must have made a mistake and not realized the impact this would have on guilds. Perhaps the EA scheduler even made the same mistake people are making on the other threads in the forum, and assumed there's a day between the end of the TB and the next TW...
    Kyno wrote: »
    The previous 2 months we had 4 TW, this month we have 5...... where did they cut one out? My math shows they added one.

    I had to graph it out, but it looks like you're right in that they didn't take one out. When I saw the single war we just had, that is a big flag that it's different, because we normally have two in a row, but it looks like they just split them apart, and are intentionally overlapping TBs with TWs to reduce the "down days."

    (Side note - you can't count the wars on a per month basis, it's on a four-week cycle - you counted a 5th one just because the next cycle of TWs happens to fall on the last day of this month, they didn't add an extra)

    Unfortunately, that seems it's likely the developers made the events overlap as an intentional decision. So now it comes down to - did they do it knowing that it would hurt guilds like mine, or did they overlook the fact that guilds can't move people without significant rewards reduction?

    I generally try not to ascribe negative intent when incompetence can have the same result - therefore I conclude that whoever made this schedule just didn't think about the impact it'll have on the player base.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    edited September 2018
    If I work an 8 hour shift and my day starts at 10pm on the 9th. If someone said when is you last day, i would still say the 9th, even though i am working into the 10th. I also wouldn't fault someone for saying that my last day is the 9th, as that's when my last shift would start. But we can agree to disagree.

    Because something doesnt fit your idea of how to play the game, and "play the game" is a stretch when it comes to you wanting to remove people from your guild, doesn't make it wrong or a mistake.

    They produce the TW schedule based on the month and not in a 4 week period, but sure.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »

    OP calls the event calendar erroneous. His main point is, that he can not plan due to those errors. OP is wrong. OP should learn what format the calendar uses, adapt and consider this format when planning.

    OP is NOT wrong. Calendar says the Territory Battle "Ends September 9th". It does not. Period.

    I never claimed, that the current TB doesn't in reality end on september 10th. However, since the OP clearly understands the format in which the calendar is written, his claim that he cannot plan due to errors in the calendar is 100% false. Period.

    Now, the OP may want a different format, but that's a topic, which I didn't discuss and which I don't intend to discuss. OP's oppinion on this is as valid as mine.

    Edited:
    Yes, the OP may want a window of a few hours in between TBs and TWs, but that's also a topic which I didn't discuss and don't intend to discuss.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    If I work an 8 hour shift and my day starts at 10pm on the 9th. If someone said when is you last day, i would still say the 9th, even though i am working into the 10th. I also wouldn't fault someone for saying that my last day is the 9th, as that's when my last shift would start. But we can agree to disagree.

    I completely agree. So if EA said the "last day of the TB started on X", then we would be talking the same language. They don't, which is the point I was trying to make.

    "Ends on" and "Last day/shift starts on" are not synonymous.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »

    OP calls the event calendar erroneous. His main point is, that he can not plan due to those errors. OP is wrong. OP should learn what format the calendar uses, adapt and consider this format when planning.

    OP is NOT wrong. Calendar says the Territory Battle "Ends September 9th". It does not. Period.

    I never claimed, that the current TB doesn't in reality end on september 10th. However, since the OP clearly understands the format in which the calendar is written, his claim that he cannot plan due to errors in the calendar is 100% false. Period.

    Now, the OP may want a different format, but that's a topic, which I didn't discuss and which I don't intend to discuss. OP's oppinion on this is as valid as mine.

    Edited:
    Yes, the OP may want a window of a few hours in between TBs and TWs, but that's also a topic which I didn't discuss and don't intend to discuss.

    The OP said he cannot "accurately plan" due to these errors. This is an accurate statement, because even having the calendar listing the last TW ending and the current TB starting on the same day - it was impossible to know that the two events would actually overlap by an hour, rather than having a gap between in which people could move.

    I find it interesting that the Quoted Poster does not want to discuss the calendar format, nor discuss the lack of a gap between these events, when those are the two topics being discussed on this thread.
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