Territory War Matchmaker

Replies

  • Trake
    148 posts Member
    Prosser wrote: »
    Nice, our opponent has over 70 mil gp on us. Greeeeeeat match making :/ybh6quf94abd.jpeg

    Oh wow, that’s even worse than the crap we deal with lol. I’d put crap defense down and walk away haha
  • This was the official line:
    "Matchmaking seeks to create the most fair matchups, with two primary goals in mind:
    The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
    The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power.

    To achieve this, matchmaking uses multiple parameters.
    As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar."

    I have always looked at the Active GP and Number of Players signed up to provide "average power" but not sure that is how they use this!

    As for the strongest possible squads of both participating guilds, we actually ask our guild not to set there top 5 most powerful characters in a squad as it doesn't make them the strongest... So keen to know what is meant on this goal!

    And the Format for reporting is key:
    Date of TW:
    Your Guild’s GP
    Opposing team’s GP:
    # of my guild members who joined:
    # of opposing guild members who joined:
    Attach any screenshots of the above info if you have them.

    *I would add in the active GP for the TW
    This is the Way
  • Our Guild has seen an increasing number of really bad matchups, where it hasn't even been close. This last Territory War is just one example - Territory War 175, June 17, 2021:

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    Confirming that their Guild had 148 GLs to our 44. And let's just say they used these numbers to their advantage when they set their defense. I believe we had 47 of our 50 Guild members join. Based on the 19 squads per territory, I believe their Guild had 38 or 39 members join.

    A reminder to the devs of what they posted in 2017: "Get prepared for the ultimate Guild vs. Guild showdown, Territory Wars, a new guild event that pits your Guild and collection against other Guilds and their collections for the true test of who is on top!" And, "anticipate regular changes to keep gameplay varied and exciting!"

    The current matchmaker settings are killing Territory Wars for some of us. There's nothing exciting about facing a Guild that has 142 Ults to your 36. We didn't need a "true test" here to know who was "on top" and how this was going to turn out. All we needed was our DSR Bot.

    Please fix this... Thanks,
    Кilum Кanata, Canadians Reunited
  • TW 21 - 24 June

    Man DeL0reans vs Jedihavoc
    ===========Overview===========
    Members :: 50 vs 49
    GP :: 101.0M vs 145.1M
    Avg Arena Rank :: 705.16 vs 1066.98
    Avg Fleet Rank :: 168.66 vs 189.02
    Zetas :: 873 vs 1873

    Active GP 86,925,738
    Man DeL0reans 42
    Jedihavoc 28

    and
    Canadian Rebel Genesis vs AxM Hypernova
    ===========Overview===========
    Members :: 50 vs 50
    GP :: 260.3M vs 288.0M
    Avg Arena Rank :: 240.26 vs 109.44
    Avg Fleet Rank :: 65.96 vs 83.00
    Zetas :: 4791 vs 5500
    Ults :: 27 vs 47

    Active GP 249,896,403
    Canadian Rebel Genesis 48
    AxM Hypernova 44
    This is the Way
  • Mol_PP
    29 posts Member
    edited June 2021
    We’ve had multiple bad matches with at least a 20m GP discrepancy going back to 5th May with the last 3 being around 50m GP. In this most recent TW we are down by 50m GP, the opposition have 33 GLs to our 15, 23 Jedi Knight Luke’s to our 4 and 34 7* General Skywalker’s to our 13.

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  • Gonzolo
    71 posts Member
    40 million GP advantage and 70 GLS more. 40 signups by a 360m guild. End sandbagging now.
  • Xylok
    92 posts Member
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    Horrible losses
  • This is the 5th mismatch in a row. I'd say fix it but unless there's a financial gain, CG won't care.

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  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    I am not sure how much evidence CG need about the match making system. What I can say is that my guild have over a 100 TW results with full stats, opponent guild listings, the match up stats, pre and post battle videos and banner analysis - so if they want this rich data source let me know and I can provide access to my Discord. In addition, from my observations, not enough emphasis is placed on the importance of GL's in the match up as part of the GP make up. With an increasing GP of guilds across the game, the current TW GP tiers for rewards probably needs to be adjusted. In addition, for the very top tier rewards, an increase in number of slots per zone would also benefit game enjoyment - akin to what has been done for GAC recently for the top Division. Finally, while I acknowledge 'sandbagging' is not a technical breach of the rules, the match up mechanic should aim to benefit guilds that have more active players signed up and make both guilds play to the maximum number of slots rather than to assist the guild with fewer players signed up and play down to a minimum number of slots; in essence make the guild with fewer players have to stretch their roster that much more. As I said, there is nothing more frustrating than being set against a guild where there is really no competition - the TW mode is a superb element of the game for the most part, however, the imbalance of GL toons is helping to exacerbate the deterioration of the game mode to one of either you play it or you don't bother - which defeats the purpose of enjoyment and ultimately in game spending to increase that enjoyment. You either want a few players spending a lot of money chasing the meta or a lot of players spending smaller amounts of money to seek tweaks to improve the game experience.
  • The last several TWs (off the top of my head, but I am sure it has been going for the last 10+) for us have been completely lopsided in our favor and we had under 40 sign up of 45 members. As soon as we get over 40 sign up we get lopsided matchups. This seems to have increased in the last few months as the GL meta has increased.

    I have also seen a slight up tick in lopsided GAC matchups too.

    GL's are great and they are here to stay, but they need to be counted higher than regular units. The current match making was not made to take them into account, and purely basing it off GP which is not completely accurate now that more people have GLs. It was fine in the early days but now that most people have either 3 or 4 GL's or even 5 now with JMK things are a lot different.

    TW is either boring and we feel sorry for the opposite team or we are pushing "it" up hill. Either way it kills the desire for the guild to TW which was a great event for the guild to rally behind and work together.
  • The last several TWs (off the top of my head, but I am sure it has been going for the last 10+) for us have been completely lopsided in our favor and we had under 40 sign up of 45 members. As soon as we get over 40 sign up we get lopsided matchups. This seems to have increased in the last few months as the GL meta has increased.

    I have also seen a slight up tick in lopsided GAC matchups too.

    GL's are great and they are here to stay, but they need to be counted higher than regular units. The current match making was not made to take them into account, and purely basing it off GP which is not completely accurate now that more people have GLs. It was fine in the early days but now that most people have either 3 or 4 GL's or even 5 now with JMK things are a lot different.

    TW is either boring and we feel sorry for the opposite team or we are pushing "it" up hill. Either way it kills the desire for the guild to TW which was a great event for the guild to rally behind and work together.
    The requirements for a GL are at least 250k GP. Then the GL is another 50k on top of that.
  • Wimma
    152 posts Member
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    We are aware that some Guilds are battling in Territory Wars against higher GP Guilds with a deeper roster and can feel impossible to beat. Currently, we don’t see any egregious issues in the data but, after looking at the posts on the forums, it’s clear that we need to investigate further. Territory War Matchmaker is something we have been monitoring closely for a while but we still need to gather more info about the current situation.

    I am combing through the forum for past GP mismatches for my report but I could use your help. Please post here with the following info if you have experienced a large mismatch in Guild GP during Territory War in the last couple months (last change to TW matchmaker was in March 2018):
    • Date of TW:
    • Your Guild’s GP
    • Opposing team’s GP:
    • # of my guild members who joined:
    • # of opposing guild members who joined:
    Attach any screenshots of the above info if you have them.

    Wow, I just saw this (must have missed the original comment).
    Was this posted on April 1st?
    This has been an issue for so long, there's no way someone can say the devs aren't aware of this. Not with a straight face, surely. What data shows this isn't an issue? Honestly be curious to understand it.
    Is there really no way to match first on number that sign up, then GP?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Wimma wrote: »
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    We are aware that some Guilds are battling in Territory Wars against higher GP Guilds with a deeper roster and can feel impossible to beat. Currently, we don’t see any egregious issues in the data but, after looking at the posts on the forums, it’s clear that we need to investigate further. Territory War Matchmaker is something we have been monitoring closely for a while but we still need to gather more info about the current situation.

    I am combing through the forum for past GP mismatches for my report but I could use your help. Please post here with the following info if you have experienced a large mismatch in Guild GP during Territory War in the last couple months (last change to TW matchmaker was in March 2018):
    • Date of TW:
    • Your Guild’s GP
    • Opposing team’s GP:
    • # of my guild members who joined:
    • # of opposing guild members who joined:
    Attach any screenshots of the above info if you have them.

    Wow, I just saw this (must have missed the original comment).
    Was this posted on April 1st?
    This has been an issue for so long, there's no way someone can say the devs aren't aware of this. Not with a straight face, surely. What data shows this isn't an issue? Honestly be curious to understand it.
    Is there really no way to match first on number that sign up, then GP?

    They ran the numbers on this a while back and it showed no increase or bias on the win ratio. That was the initial information that started this post.

    It's not that simple, and they are aware and are talling about things. But you cant lock in on any one thing "first" or "second", it would need to be a dynamic system.
  • There is no doubt that the match up process is a complex one. However, the continued reporting of mismatches remains consistent. The situation normally arises when a significantly higher GP guild has fewer active registered players pitched against a lower GP guild with a greater number of active registered players. The reality is the number of slots to fill per sector is reduced to favour the guild with fewer registered players. The other reality is the guild with the fewer players often has the greater number of meta and GL squads, noting that GLs in themselves require a not insignificant number of high relic toons to unlock. The reward system favours being 1st in lower tier prize brackets as the rewards for second place in higher brackets is less favourable. The 25 max slots per zone is becoming an interesting constraint as now higher GP guilds (above GP250mil) are fielding increasing numbers of full GL walls, with 5 GL soon to be 6 and 50 players we are approaching a TW mechanic that will result in just GLs walls in TW. Where have some of the underlying game variables gone that push extra buffs for certain factions akin to the Galactic Challenges? TW is an important mechanic to enhance the community at an individual, guild and wider game ecosystem level. We are already seeing guilds that are starting to be PVE vs PVP focused; which is fine; but in reality is just isolating players from the breadth of enjoyment the game has to offer. If CG are serious about keeping the community healthy and active and spending, then working out how to make TW fun again is required. The match making from a few years ago has not kept pace with the desire to increase game richness with new toons and new mechanics. It is resulting in match ups that are dissapointing and non competitive for either side of the equation.
  • I feel like since GLs were introduced the match ups have been really one sided. We often come up against a guild with much less GLs than us. At our gp this could be 12 vs only 1-2, maybe zero. Just on GLs alone they don't stand a chance. The other stats might be close but GLs really need to be factored in otherwise it will continue to be lopsided.
  • The last several TWs (off the top of my head, but I am sure it has been going for the last 10+) for us have been completely lopsided in our favor and we had under 40 sign up of 45 members. As soon as we get over 40 sign up we get lopsided matchups. This seems to have increased in the last few months as the GL meta has increased.

    I have also seen a slight up tick in lopsided GAC matchups too.

    GL's are great and they are here to stay, but they need to be counted higher than regular units. The current match making was not made to take them into account, and purely basing it off GP which is not completely accurate now that more people have GLs. It was fine in the early days but now that most people have either 3 or 4 GL's or even 5 now with JMK things are a lot different.

    TW is either boring and we feel sorry for the opposite team or we are pushing "it" up hill. Either way it kills the desire for the guild to TW which was a great event for the guild to rally behind and work together.
    The requirements for a GL are at least 250k GP. Then the GL is another 50k on top of that.

    So I don't assume anything what is your point?
  • Date of TW: 18 - 20 July 2021
    Your Guild’s GP: 105m
    Opposing team’s GP: 176m
    # of my guild members who joined: 41
    # of opposing guild members who joined: 26
    Attach any screenshots of the above info if you have them.
    9jgz02mrc4gg.png

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    This is the Way
  • The last several TWs (off the top of my head, but I am sure it has been going for the last 10+) for us have been completely lopsided in our favor and we had under 40 sign up of 45 members. As soon as we get over 40 sign up we get lopsided matchups. This seems to have increased in the last few months as the GL meta has increased.

    I have also seen a slight up tick in lopsided GAC matchups too.

    GL's are great and they are here to stay, but they need to be counted higher than regular units. The current match making was not made to take them into account, and purely basing it off GP which is not completely accurate now that more people have GLs. It was fine in the early days but now that most people have either 3 or 4 GL's or even 5 now with JMK things are a lot different.

    TW is either boring and we feel sorry for the opposite team or we are pushing "it" up hill. Either way it kills the desire for the guild to TW which was a great event for the guild to rally behind and work together.
    The requirements for a GL are at least 250k GP. Then the GL is another 50k on top of that.

    So I don't assume anything what is your point?
    Isn’t it obvious?

    You said GLs should be counted higher than regular units. I pointed out that a GL has 50k GP on top of an associated baggage of 250k GP for the requirements.

    How much higher do you want their GP to be?
  • Wimma
    152 posts Member
    The problem isn't with GLs, they just make it worse. There was a growth curve of rosters as they improve, but GLs are a big step up. GAC uses the bloat GP to even it out 1-on-1, but that doesn't hold when you have 50 small rosters with no GLs against 25 big rosters with GLs.
    Again it's an issue of uneven numbers signing up.
    We're told it's more complicated than matching on number of participants first, then GP second, but I still don't understand why that wouldn't be a huge improvement.
    Thankfully we've had a few give the game up, so our guild numbers dropped to ~45, meaning TW numbers were 38-42 the last handful. Obviously that means we win them with less signing up (no sandbagging, some just busy with life, others sick of TW), so yay and all, but it isn't fair.
  • Iam_DarthBane50
    6 posts Member
    edited July 2021
    The algorithm works great....9j8zj616jotp.jpg
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  • 8vhz44ypzojw.jpeg
    Another classic example of how the match making system is broken. We are fielding 50 players. Our opponents we think 40 as we are having to fill 20 per zone. I really struggle to keep my guild enthused about TW.
  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    CG_SBCrumb: You really need to get the team at CG to finally sort this TW match making out - at least put 330mil 40 player guilds together - pitting them up against 50 player weaker guilds will kill this game .
  • Scarbuddy
    3 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Date of TW: 01-03 Aug 2021
    My Guild’s GP: 316.95M
    Opposing team’s GP: 380.40M
    # of my guild members who joined: 46/50
    # of opposing guild members who joined: 38-39/50

    vn4pa39rdf5p.jpeg

    This issue would be alleviated if the number of defensive squads was calculated based on the highest amount of participants instead of the lowest. Isn’t discouraging players from under-investing in a game mode in order to achieve better results one of the big motivators for CG to make a change? Or does this event’s mismanagement and unfair matchmaking get a pass because it benefits the whales?
  • Scarbuddy wrote: »
    Date of TW: 01-03 Aug 2021
    My Guild’s GP: 316.95M
    Opposing team’s GP: 380.40M
    # of my guild members who joined: 46/50
    # of opposing guild members who joined: 38-39/50

    vn4pa39rdf5p.jpeg

    This issue would be alleviated if the number of defensive squads was calculated based on the highest amount of participants instead of the lowest. Isn’t discouraging players from under-investing in a game mode in order to achieve better results one of the big motivators for CG to make a change? Or does this event’s mismanagement and unfair matchmaking get a pass because it benefits the whales?

    Personally, I think this is one of several factors that could improve the match making. A review of the reward structure is needed to remove the desire to drop active players and ‘sandbag’. The reintroduction of faction specific buffs, the review of how two guilds are matched, with emphasis on end game GL numbers, as with the new game mechanic tweaks inbound the ability to counter GLs with non GL counters is all but gone. There are so many ways that CG could make sure that when two guilds are matched the resulting war is highly competitive, relies on strategy and cunning along with efficient use of resources. Right now, TW is becoming the most annoying, abused element of the game and is removing the last real fun element of the game for so many players. To have significant elements of the game on sim and others in auto mode - it’s fast loosing its appeal. No amount of new toons, farming grinds and material hoarding discussions in a community is going to save the game long term if all we end up doing is sim, auto or just not bother with the game. For me, without a healthy community and some fun in this game - I am ready to throw in the towel - after 5yrs.
  • FidoElite wrote: »
    Scarbuddy wrote: »
    Date of TW: 01-03 Aug 2021
    My Guild’s GP: 316.95M
    Opposing team’s GP: 380.40M
    # of my guild members who joined: 46/50
    # of opposing guild members who joined: 38-39/50

    vn4pa39rdf5p.jpeg

    This issue would be alleviated if the number of defensive squads was calculated based on the highest amount of participants instead of the lowest. Isn’t discouraging players from under-investing in a game mode in order to achieve better results one of the big motivators for CG to make a change? Or does this event’s mismanagement and unfair matchmaking get a pass because it benefits the whales?
    A review of the reward structure is needed to remove the desire to drop active players and ‘sandbag’.
    There are dozens and dozens of posts in this and other threads that suggest that guilds going in with <50 players are doing so deliberately and in a calculated manner.

    This just isn’t true, and is an unnecessary addition to your post.

    TW matchmaking does need addressed, for sure, though.
  • TVF
    31646 posts Member
    How would changing the reward structure help? Right now there's almost no incentive to sandbag for rewards, because the difference between 1st and 2nd is barely noticeable.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    FidoElite wrote: »
    Scarbuddy wrote: »
    Date of TW: 01-03 Aug 2021
    My Guild’s GP: 316.95M
    Opposing team’s GP: 380.40M
    # of my guild members who joined: 46/50
    # of opposing guild members who joined: 38-39/50

    vn4pa39rdf5p.jpeg

    This issue would be alleviated if the number of defensive squads was calculated based on the highest amount of participants instead of the lowest. Isn’t discouraging players from under-investing in a game mode in order to achieve better results one of the big motivators for CG to make a change? Or does this event’s mismanagement and unfair matchmaking get a pass because it benefits the whales?
    A review of the reward structure is needed to remove the desire to drop active players and ‘sandbag’.
    There are dozens and dozens of posts in this and other threads that suggest that guilds going in with <50 players are doing so deliberately and in a calculated manner.

    This just isn’t true, and is an unnecessary addition to your post.

    TW matchmaking does need addressed, for sure, though.

    So it’s quite normal for 50 strong guild that says it’s TW focused to drop 10 players ?

    The reality is - 40-42 players seems to be an optimum where you go up against a guild with up to 50 players and funnily enough the guild with the fewer players has double or treble the GL count
  • actgnrwa2zxy.png
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    Having a blast - this TW is as much fun as poking my eyes out with a sharp needle.
  • Are you aware that, since nobody in your guild set a defence, any member who does not attack a team will get no rewards?
  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    On the rewards - a second place prize in the top GP tier is not as good as a first place in the tier below. xcuw9rwh9l25.png
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    This also shows that the GP prize tiers need recalibrating to maybe split above the 225mil. I’d go as far to say the rewards also need to be aligned to the different stages that players are at so late game players (higher GP brackets) get gear and rewards to push those relics vs early game players needing to gear up the levels.
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