Territory War Matchmaker

Replies

  • If CG can get this right - then they really do have the ingredients to make this game a continued success. TW above even TB really does bring a guild community together and harness the power of social gaming interaction. It’s a great event - and that is from my guild that have an 80% win rate. The above posts are more a plea to CG to take notice and help bring this important game element back into balance and restore the competitive fun - nothing more.
  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Are you aware that, since nobody in your guild set a defence, any member who does not attack a team will get no rewards?

    Yes, we were aware. We have made sure everyone has scored banners. We have cleared 4 zones so far. This not setting defences is a first for our guild after some 100+ TW and a decision not taken lightly. It’s taking the fun away from both sides. And is making a statement. If everyone who faced such a non competitive TW did similar I’m sure the stats would begin to shine through. I would not be surprised that the next TW will suddenly be in our favour?
  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    If every guild who faced overwhelming opponents in a TW coordinated their non setting of defence and not attacking (scoring a 0) the stats would shine through to CG to show the scale of the problem. Extreme admittedly but definitely a way to highlight a problem.
  • FidoElite wrote: »
    If every guild who faced overwhelming opponents in a TW coordinated their non setting of defence and not attacking (scoring a 0) the stats would shine through to CG to show the scale of the problem. Extreme admittedly but definitely a way to highlight a problem.
    I admire your optimism. The longer matchmaking remains as it is, the more likely it is that CG just don’t care.
  • It took everything we had to break the GL walls and then some with soft counters but we didn’t go quietly into the night …. But having my eyes stuck on cocktail sticks was not fun - come on CG - fix this match up mechanism - let’s get back to having some fun please hibtrlbj90qt.png
  • Another great TW - both 50/50 and very similar GP. One guild with 97GL the us with 57 GL. Let’s see how this pans out. Regardless shows again that GL are not taken into account outside of just GP and with the upcoming tweaks to soft counters - this would be a done deal already.
  • After experiencing a lot of mismatched TWs I found this thread so I want to contribute our newest match: About double the amount of GLs, 121 R8s to our 30 and just all across the board more of everything. 9grj5wii9nux.jpeg
  • FidoElite wrote: »
    Another great TW - both 50/50 and very similar GP. One guild with 97GL the us with 57 GL. Let’s see how this pans out. Regardless shows again that GL are not taken into account outside of just GP and with the upcoming tweaks to soft counters - this would be a done deal already.
    But if you’re both 50/50 and similar GP, how is it the matchmaking’s fault that your opponent have focused more on GLs than you?
  • FidoElite wrote: »
    Another great TW - both 50/50 and very similar GP. One guild with 97GL the us with 57 GL. Let’s see how this pans out. Regardless shows again that GL are not taken into account outside of just GP and with the upcoming tweaks to soft counters - this would be a done deal already.
    But if you’re both 50/50 and similar GP, how is it the matchmaking’s fault that your opponent have focused more on GLs than you?

    Because the many players who are mid game have not all focused on the GL grind and have worked on other non GL squads along with having bloat from the early days - I was keen that folks also had a sensible breadth and depth of roster and had soft counters. However, GLs are a different quality and game mechanic to all other toons, and for those guilds that have gone very GL focused they will benefit no doubt - but the match making system does need to factor that to make the match ups more competitive for both sides. What I wanted to see this TW is if the GL deficit really makes such a huge difference. This is the first match up that I have seen an opportunity to test my suspicion. If I had the advantage I’d be placing half my GL on defence as a minimum and still keeping back a solid set of GL to trample A teams like GAS, DR and Padme.
  • FidoElite wrote: »
    FidoElite wrote: »
    Another great TW - both 50/50 and very similar GP. One guild with 97GL the us with 57 GL. Let’s see how this pans out. Regardless shows again that GL are not taken into account outside of just GP and with the upcoming tweaks to soft counters - this would be a done deal already.
    But if you’re both 50/50 and similar GP, how is it the matchmaking’s fault that your opponent have focused more on GLs than you?

    Because the many players who are mid game have not all focused on the GL grind and have worked on other non GL squads along with having bloat from the early days - I was keen that folks also had a sensible breadth and depth of roster and had soft counters. However, GLs are a different quality and game mechanic to all other toons, and for those guilds that have gone very GL focused they will benefit no doubt - but the match making system does need to factor that to make the match ups more competitive for both sides. What I wanted to see this TW is if the GL deficit really makes such a huge difference. This is the first match up that I have seen an opportunity to test my suspicion. If I had the advantage I’d be placing half my GL on defence as a minimum and still keeping back a solid set of GL to trample A teams like GAS, DR and Padme.
    The request for matchmaking to factor in GL count has been made hundreds of times.

    But each GL (50k GP) has requirements (250k GP - more than that for JML), so GLs are already massively accounted for in matchmaking. The guild that has 40 GL more than you has around 12M GP tied up in those 40 GLs. Your guild must have allocated that 12M GP somewhere - and I am sceptical that gearing up a counter squad for a GL can account for that sort of number.

    I just don’t see how guilds with the same GP can have such a huge disparity in their GL count, and my personal opinion is that matchmaking shouldn’t take account of the number of GLs.
  • Herodis4
    21 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Herodis4 wrote: »
    After experiencing a lot of mismatched TWs I found this thread so I want to contribute our newest match: About double the amount of GLs, 121 R8s to our 30 and just all across the board more of everything. 9grj5wii9nux.jpeg

    Well the TW has officially started and big surprise: first two territories (2x21) are filled with GLs. This is not a lot of fun, not going to lie. If such a mismatch happens every once in a while it sucks but that's life. But if something like that happens in 4 out of the last 5 TWs, being down 20-40 mil GP (I do know, that the HotBot analysis takes the whole opposing guild into consideration, but it's still an indicator of some sort of a guilds players progress and roster) and completely outmatched considering just the sheer amount of GLs, it just takes the fun out of the game mode.
    Yes I do get that matchmaking is a a very complicated matter and many factors have to be considered, more than a simple player can probably imagine but considering the Road ahead and the "death" of "f2p"-counters in connection with such mismatches in TW, something has to be done about that.

  • erieu29vv1j9.jpeg
    Well it’s a full house on both sides. So as you can see similar GP but very different GL make up. We set weak defence and have gone full attack. Right now - we are just ramping up our attack - no rush.
  • As you can imagine - it remains for us to do some work btpewemxyy9x.png
  • As I have said before, I still think GLs have a significant part to play in the match making. Even more so when the current non GL based counters are reworked
  • Herodis4 wrote: »
    Herodis4 wrote: »
    After experiencing a lot of mismatched TWs I found this thread so I want to contribute our newest match: About double the amount of GLs, 121 R8s to our 30 and just all across the board more of everything. 9grj5wii9nux.jpeg

    Well the TW has officially started and big surprise: first two territories (2x21) are filled with GLs. This is not a lot of fun, not going to lie. If such a mismatch happens every once in a while it sucks but that's life. But if something like that happens in 4 out of the last 5 TWs, being down 20-40 mil GP (I do know, that the HotBot analysis takes the whole opposing guild into consideration, but it's still an indicator of some sort of a guilds players progress and roster) and completely outmatched considering just the sheer amount of GLs, it just takes the fun out of the game mode.
    Yes I do get that matchmaking is a a very complicated matter and many factors have to be considered, more than a simple player can probably imagine but considering the Road ahead and the "death" of "f2p"-counters in connection with such mismatches in TW, something has to be done about that.

    Yeah - that’s not going to be fun - they have enough JML, REY and JMK to make your life a pita on defence while having enough SEE and SLKR to make a dent in any wall you set and then some more.
  • FidoElite wrote: »
    Herodis4 wrote: »
    Herodis4 wrote: »
    After experiencing a lot of mismatched TWs I found this thread so I want to contribute our newest match: About double the amount of GLs, 121 R8s to our 30 and just all across the board more of everything. 9grj5wii9nux.jpeg

    Well the TW has officially started and big surprise: first two territories (2x21) are filled with GLs. This is not a lot of fun, not going to lie. If such a mismatch happens every once in a while it sucks but that's life. But if something like that happens in 4 out of the last 5 TWs, being down 20-40 mil GP (I do know, that the HotBot analysis takes the whole opposing guild into consideration, but it's still an indicator of some sort of a guilds players progress and roster) and completely outmatched considering just the sheer amount of GLs, it just takes the fun out of the game mode.
    Yes I do get that matchmaking is a a very complicated matter and many factors have to be considered, more than a simple player can probably imagine but considering the Road ahead and the "death" of "f2p"-counters in connection with such mismatches in TW, something has to be done about that.

    Yeah - that’s not going to be fun - they have enough JML, REY and JMK to make your life a pita on defence while having enough SEE and SLKR to make a dent in any wall you set and then some more.

    We are putting that one down as a loss and move on, it's just frustrating. In your case one could argue that you have about the same GP, are not that far off on average arena placements (yes that is an indicator for me as well I'd say), the others may just have focussed more on GLs so it's "your fault" for not going with the Meta earlier. With those upcoming changes my own Vader/Wat counter will be gone and I won't be able to reach top 5 in squad arena anymore until I'll have a GL of my own. I'm fine with that, everyone makes decisions on what they like best. But if this sandbagging issue or whatever you call it, is not adressed, it seems TWs will continue to look like this. Yes, the analysis says they "only" have 22 mil more GP but with that GP usually comes the better mod inventory, more Zetas cause usually, unless you face the total kraken guild who just buy their GP and don't grow it naturally, you are at a disadvantage. And even more so: Having that much more R8s on their GLs, a GL vs GL fight isn't always a guaranteed win. One guild mate had the game crash on him while he attacked with his SEE...
    It's all those factors piled on top of each other that ruin the experience. We don't want to be matched vs someone who has no chance to beat us either. It happened a few months ago once, that we were in the role of Goliath and guess what, that's not what people usually want to play PvP for. One-sided matches aren't fun.
  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Yup this TW went as expected - 56 GLs set in defence with two solid GL walls on the back. Just frustrating - we had to take everything into battle. For me, this TW shows how GLs are a critical balance lever for TW.
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  • Herodis4 wrote: »
    FidoElite wrote: »
    Herodis4 wrote: »
    Herodis4 wrote: »
    After experiencing a lot of mismatched TWs I found this thread so I want to contribute our newest match: About double the amount of GLs, 121 R8s to our 30 and just all across the board more of everything. 9grj5wii9nux.jpeg

    Well the TW has officially started and big surprise: first two territories (2x21) are filled with GLs. This is not a lot of fun, not going to lie. If such a mismatch happens every once in a while it sucks but that's life. But if something like that happens in 4 out of the last 5 TWs, being down 20-40 mil GP (I do know, that the HotBot analysis takes the whole opposing guild into consideration, but it's still an indicator of some sort of a guilds players progress and roster) and completely outmatched considering just the sheer amount of GLs, it just takes the fun out of the game mode.
    Yes I do get that matchmaking is a a very complicated matter and many factors have to be considered, more than a simple player can probably imagine but considering the Road ahead and the "death" of "f2p"-counters in connection with such mismatches in TW, something has to be done about that.

    Yeah - that’s not going to be fun - they have enough JML, REY and JMK to make your life a pita on defence while having enough SEE and SLKR to make a dent in any wall you set and then some more.

    We are putting that one down as a loss and move on, it's just frustrating. In your case one could argue that you have about the same GP, are not that far off on average arena placements (yes that is an indicator for me as well I'd say), the others may just have focussed more on GLs so it's "your fault" for not going with the Meta earlier. With those upcoming changes my own Vader/Wat counter will be gone and I won't be able to reach top 5 in squad arena anymore until I'll have a GL of my own. I'm fine with that, everyone makes decisions on what they like best. But if this sandbagging issue or whatever you call it, is not adressed, it seems TWs will continue to look like this. Yes, the analysis says they "only" have 22 mil more GP but with that GP usually comes the better mod inventory, more Zetas cause usually, unless you face the total kraken guild who just buy their GP and don't grow it naturally, you are at a disadvantage. And even more so: Having that much more R8s on their GLs, a GL vs GL fight isn't always a guaranteed win. One guild mate had the game crash on him while he attacked with his SEE...
    It's all those factors piled on top of each other that ruin the experience. We don't want to be matched vs someone who has no chance to beat us either. It happened a few months ago once, that we were in the role of Goliath and guess what, that's not what people usually want to play PvP for. One-sided matches aren't fun.

    Agreed, non competitive match ups are boring and frustrating. In this particular match up we were both pretty much 50/50 and our GP very similar. The imbalance was in GLs. And it proved decisive in this encounter.
  • TVF
    31655 posts Member
    I would recommend working on more GLs.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    I would recommend working on more GLs.

    For sure - but still, get the balance sorted

  • LastNeuron
    83 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Because the problem was not addressed our guild will start not deploying a single unit in the wars. Regards

    p.s. the major problem is sandbagging and you know well...
  • TVF
    31655 posts Member
    That'll learn em
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Yeah - well - I will post back here after the next TW. However, given the GL uplift, the nerf of previous non GL counters and also the introduction of a new meta fleet - the game mechanic better be improved to create an even match up in TW (and GAC) or I fear that the community will become somewhat disarrayed with the game. I know I will - as someone who has an 8.7mil account, all GL and meta fleets and pretty much every toon relic give or take a few. Having been a collector more than a competitive soul, I still think this balance has to come. Jury is out for now.
  • Gravy275
    13 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Trake wrote: »
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    We are aware that some Guilds are battling in Territory Wars against higher GP Guilds with a deeper roster and can feel impossible to beat. Currently, we don’t see any egregious issues in the data but, after looking at the posts on the forums, it’s clear that we need to investigate further. Territory War Matchmaker is something we have been monitoring closely for a while but we still need to gather more info about the current situation.

    I am combing through the forum for past GP mismatches for my report but I could use your help. Please post here with the following info if you have experienced a large mismatch in Guild GP during Territory War in the last couple months (last change to TW matchmaker was in March 2018):
    • Date of TW:
    • Your Guild’s GP
    • Opposing team’s GP:
    • # of my guild members who joined:
    • # of opposing guild members who joined:
    Attach any screenshots of the above info if you have them.

    In 2018 you stated you wanted to change the matchmaking process…. Here another example of the stupidity of the matchmaking process, which has not changed
    Our guild 243 Mio GM with 10 GLs
    Our opponent 305 Mio GM with 114 GLs(!)
    We have 40 signed in for the TW, the opponent obviously less, as there are only 16 slots per area to be filled.

    Our opponent obviously signs in with less guild members therefore reducing the total GM and receiving a guild as opponent with equal GM. Sounds okay, doesn’t it? The matchmaking system obviously doesn’t take the amount of GLs into consideration. Even if our opponent shows up with 25 guild members versus our 40 members the GL count is 54 vs our total of 10. Now the first row just needs to be filled all with GLs and we are toast.

    This is neither fair nor motivating and this guild has found a way to always win as the statistics of them show.

    Now please please please change the matchmaking process to at least include the GL count.

    Thank you

    Gravy
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  • Matchmaking is garbage
    They compare the joined gm vs joined gm nothing else. It can end up in 200 gls vs 50 gls - which is utterly pointless matchmaking.
    I am not sure who thinks this super simple matchmaking algorithm will result in a good gameplay - but maybe its too complex for your programmers to add a simple routine to compare the amount of players being close together so the real strength is way more close to eachanother. And thats even a really simple algorithm. Nothing complex like comparing gac/true roster strength/mods etc or a ladder to get a real strength of the team.
  • Well I can confidently say that TW match making is purely on ACTIVE GP registered in the TW and not much else. Certainly Galactic Legends are not given any specific consideration in the match up mechanics - they are just GP elements. My guild has been the recipient of much frustration and powerful guilds being matched up against recently and getting easily over powered and defeated. Well on this occasion we did an experiment and the results were shocking, disappointing and highlight a significant flaw in the TW match up mechanics. We registered 35 players all with GL and were matched against an opponent that had registered 42 players, both at 199mil active GP. Just look at the match up.

    You will see the match up is extreme and you will also see in the images below the map after nearly 18hrs and our opponents stuck on one of our GL walls. We then started our attack with about 6hrs to go to show we had plenty left in the attacking tank to easily over power and take the win. We contacted our opponents and explained what was going on. They were grateful for our explanation and wished us well. For the sake of this game CG - sort out the TW match making mechanics and do take into account the GL elements. With the up coming nerf of non GL counters - these match ups are just shocking and open to abuse.

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  • FidoElite
    78 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    This has to be the post that makes CG look into this
  • FidoElite wrote: »
    This has to be the post that makes CG look into this

    Sadly not - because they unofficially allow sandbagging (to lower numbers drastically to get easy matchups)

    Its a way to let them win even if they are terrible at TW. Its a dirty way without any honor, they should be ashamed to do so, but its the only way those guilds win. Have seen many many guilds with profile TW oriented who got less than 70% of their guild to enter the TW. In the end CG is doing the algorithm - since long people rightfully complain about it and anyways nothing is done.
  • I do think, that if more and more people complain and complain, perhaps even reporting guilds, although knowing they did not do anything against swgoh rules (surely honor, fairness and integrity is not part of those rules).
    Increase in reporting and complaints just has to draw the attention to this sandbagging guilds who, as said above, have no honor, no fairness and no integrity.
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