Nightsister Zombie Rework: Begone Paper, Hello Fat [MEGA]

Replies

  • I want a refund on Assajj.

    Also, paper zombie was a good tactic for arena. How on earth does CG think that their arena viability will increase if they nerf the key character?
  • 1- Why refund Daka zeta but not Asajj's Zeta's?
    2- Why not just revert Zombies to g4? that is exactly what players asked for.
    3- Can someone explain to me how something can by META yet at the same time not be a dominant team?
    4- How did you "We left Zombie’s constant taunting and reviving intact" but also you "If Zombie has two negative stacks she can not be revived" Was it left alone or was it changed?
    5- Why is there no mention of how the -100 speed no revive will KILL THE P3 Damage TEAM?
    6- what are the Future Nerfs based on the logic better should always be better logic?
    When is Thrawn kit change because ZThrawn kills himself now in arena vs Traya while normal Thrawn is better vs Traya?
    When is Magma trooper kit change because magma PUNISHES ENEMIES WITH A Zeta DN, normal DN is better Vs Magma teams.

    In more detail:
    1) Tophat claims this in paragraph 1 of this post the point of this fix is to prevent paper zombie from causing ASAJJ VENTRESS to deal massive damage. Then goes on to say later As a final note, per our previous communications, we will be removing the Old Daka Zeta from all players that have her Zeta’d. We are aiming to refund the Old Daka Zeta from all players that have her Zeta’d in the next update, but we will confirm in patch notes when it goes live.It seems Asajj is the Zeta impacted by the change to Zombie not Daka Zeta.
    Why refund Daka zeta but not Asajj's Zeta's? Typo Maybe?

    2) TopHat writes "But over time, we’ve gotten more and more requests to do something about Zombie. “Reset my Zombie.” “Fix Zombie.” “Respect my investment.” So we need to act". The changes specifically preventing MT and initiate from dying in P3 do not do anywhere close to what players asked for "reset my zombie" or "respect my investment". No one asked for MT or Initiate to not die or for Zombie to not revive after 2 deaths. Why was this chosen over what players actually asked for a revert of gear?

    3) They claim that NS is going to return to the META (Most Effective Tactic Available), although not to previous dominance. If its not dominant it by definition has not returned to the META. Can someone explain to me how something can by META yet at the same time not be a dominant team?


    4) Revives left alone or changed? The amount of double talk makes understanding the Dev post very difficult . One line says we left zombies constant taunting and reviving intact... the next line says except she can not be revived. Either you left it alone or you altered it? what happened?

    5) MT P3 was a legit p3 NON-PAPER zombie team that was NERFED on the front setting it up (getting MT and Initiate to die) and on the back end by zombie not reviving at the end of the run. you mention the more difficult front but do not mention the back end where you have killed this team off by preventing revive, you know the revive that was left unchanged that actually changed..

    6) This isnt a question more of an observation in Paragraph 2 Top hat says the core rule of the game is a higher level character should always be better in terms of outcome. This analysis of the core-strategy is wrong at it's own core. Plenty of characters function better at lower non maxed levels, Thrawn without a zeta is better than Thrawn with a Zeta Traya teams, R2 without cleanse is better than R2 with Zeta Vs EP STH without Omega taunts longer than with Omega, Sith Trooper without Omega deals actual Dmg to protection which is good vs sith, with Omega sith trooper damages health which is healed up almost instantly vs sith, 5's omega makes it harder to solo Rancor in 2015 with 5's because the extra tap that you don't need to apply speed down actually speeds up the Rancor, Old Ben 3* better than 7* The list can go on for almost every unit theres a scenario where better is worse and worse is better. In my opinion this is a weak reason to need to change a kit, but if so then just about ANY TOON CAN BE NERFED using this logic at any point in time.

    Whats next Thrawn whole kit is nerfed in November because Thrawn kills himself now by constantly countering out of turn vs Traya in arena? If enough people complain their Thrawn kills himself would you consider changing his kit?

    Why cant we just be honest and say NS are too good for the fragile sith raid we are nerfing them. That honesty would go a long way.

    This...with exception, Leave the Night Sisters alone & fix the stupid raid!


  • How is the 2x revive **** NOT a direct counter to P3 tactic. All the zombie rework stuff came intentionally with NS nerf under the hood. I mean, how can they sell BH better than nerf the best P3/P4 Team? Guess all have to switch to Chex or AURA SING now... ridiculous...[/quote]

    This ^^
  • Ariella wrote: »
    Mano wrote: »
    CG wouldn't Face Such a Backlash if they were Considering giving back all the NS Zetas instead of just the DAka one..Let the Players decide for themselves if the Zeta is Good to invest or not..The New Changes was needed and u have worked so hard on the new mechanics and which of course seem very good..it would be wise to give back all the Ns Zetas and let the Players do what they want..I wouldn't Have Zetad my NS if it wasnt for HSTR
    I don't want my zetas back, I want CG to propose better changes. In Old Ben's words, this could be considered a nerf "from a certain point of view". Players who've tirelessly built up a Sith P3 team are really hurt by this.

    Sith P4
    Players who've been striving for perfection in P4 don't get much from it, and here's why:-
    The heal is like, yeah on face value, an extra heal can really help us keep that TM train rolling. But without wanting to sound totally ungrateful, the heal isn't a particularly great one, relative to what the others offer. Take Daka, who heals everyone to half her max health. Now, since a Zeta Daka's health stacks exceptionally high as the raid wears on, by the time you've on 50 stacks of bonds, that keeps you in the game.
    20% of Zombie's max health may barely make a difference with bonds at that level, and my fear is that even at relatively low stacks of around 10-20 bonds it may not be enough to restore NS to max health and thus keep the TM train rolling.
    I will caveat my concern/criticism here by saying it's tough to truly know the impact of this heal without real world testing i.e. decent mods, health stacking on Zombie and practise with high stacks.
    What I will say is, I'm happy with a mechanic that allows me to keep that turn meter train rolling for longer, to offset the repeated deaths from Zombie - I'm just sceptical that this heal will be such a big game changer in that regard.
    The fact that zombie takes 2 deaths for the team makes little to no difference in this phase. If she could take 2 annihilates for the team then believe me in the context of the Sith raid I'd be absolutely over the moon at this point! But that would probably not extremely dis-satisfactory in PVP.


    Sith P3
    Players have worked hard in recent months to hone their NS teams to score well in Sith P3. This isn't easy to setup, and it's extremely RNG dependent how well you score. You can get 5m on a good run, 15m on an exceptional run.
    Those really high scores are mainly achieved by keeping the team alive post-enrage, and that's totally RNG dependent because if Traya Isolates Daka on the first post enrage turn, it's all over.
    Now, setting up this team means you need to get 2 of your NS dead. It can't be Asajj or Daka.
    So it'll be MT and 1 other, either Spirit or Initiate.
    Post update, you need to have any non-Zombie NS die twice before the deaths stick, so to say.
    This will mean it'll add a number of turns to the run. The more turns it takes to get them 2 dead, the less damage you do. And there's a gulf between the damage you can do if you line it up in 2 turns or if you line it up in 5, it could be worth millions.
    So this is absolutely a nerf in that context... and all because of the daft idea that Zombie takes 2 deaths for the team.

    What I find surreal about that addition is that in almost every single scenario (basically apart from Annihilates or Executions), Nightsisters dying is good for the team. Talia dying is good. MT dying is good. Spirit dying is good. Initiate dying is good. Asajj and Daka both grow every more stronger and powerful the more this happens. So it's not wanted or needed that Zombie takes those deaths for the team... they're all good.

    This very addition alone leaves me sceptical about the intentions of this change.
    Either:
    CG are happy to nerf the NS team - and by nerf - I want to add, I and I think most NS players are fully accepting of the removal of the paper zombie. But we're talking about the overall efficacy of the faction here, and paper zombie changes aside, this Undying Sacrifice equals a nerf.
    Or
    They just don't get the mechanics well enough to have made an informed decision. Both are depressing.

    Thank you, hopefully people that are wondering why we are so upset will read this.
  • I'm hopeful that the lack of comment regarding the negative feedback on Undying Sacrifice means they're having a good old think on how they can improve it
  • I have 5 zetas assigned to NS. Being that Zombie is really the core element of this team and it’s ability to take Nihilus’ erratic and annoying unpredictable programming, we should be allowed to remove all zetas from NightSisters in order to decide for ourselves how we want them to be used. This we be totally fair to the community. It would also show the player base that you are willing to make a compromise instead just stripping us of all our hard work
  • I will give credit where it’s due- CG has been on point bringing changes/fixes pretty quickly from when they said they would.

    From gear in haat and hsith to the zombie issue, it has been dealt with , on time ?? Or more rapid than I thought it would.
  • All I want to say that I'm glad that you made a so simple and easy to understand nerf boost on Zombie.

    Seriously... There is more "if" and "when" in this kit description than "shall" in a hundred pages long international contract. Nicely done @CG_TopHat !
  • It would be also nice by you to give back not only Daka's unique zeta, but also Asajj's unique zeta.
  • So...we've been promised:
    1) Sith Raid changes to DN and non-heroic health pool
    2) Legendary event for Chewie
    3) Zombie rework

    So when is the question? Tomorrow? Next week? Next Year???

    I think I liked it better when you announced changes when you had them ready... because they then happened in a day or two. Not true anymore.
  • We'll have to wait and see if this actually nerfs zombie in p4 of the raid. A g8 zombie shoud be able to take a few turns between deaths so can get the speed up from taking bonds of weakness dmg. That should help her taunt more.

    But with that being said, I think CG made this overly complicated. All that really was necessary was a slight change to asajj's and daka's kits to make the stacking offense and health on deaths except zombie. And then add the stacking offense and health when zombie takes damage but doesn't die.

    A simple change to the kit. Zombie would be better at higher gear in all cases with that simple change and daka and assaj aren't nerfed and the strategy changes little.

    @CG_TopHat please consider this change instead or in addition to the ones you are implementing. That way zeta assajj and zeta daka are still useful.

    this might the smartest post read so far in this thread
  • so CG_TopHat while it was good in arena for ppl to spend crystals to progress in ranks it was good and no changes were needed, because players had to buy refreshes to play (as now claimed) broken meta, but as soon players started doing decent dmg in hsith you found an excuse to modify zombie and other teams like clones

    It seems that only thing that drives you to change things is to big dmg in HSITH using game mechanics that are made by you

    what about double zeta on MT and AV will you be refunding those too, because this team won't work as it was supposed too?

    what about money spent on crystals to unlock MT and zombie for team that will not work as it was advertised when published

    will you be also refunding crystals spent on broken meta in arena? few months × at least one refresh for 50 crystals per day.

    this could be compared to buying tesla with electric motor and now being recalled to install diesel engine!
  • Just refund the zetas on Asajj and we're good :)
  • Before HSR I didn’t have a nightsister team. Now I have four of them gear 12 with extra pieces and 4 zetas on them. How are you thinking this isn’t messed up what you are doing to us? Atleast give me back my zetas.
  • If anyone here wouldn’t reinvest those resources right back into Nightsisters they are crazy. I’ll be shocked if they don’t remain the #1 raid team.
  • I bet they'll still be the dominant p4 team just with a lower DMG ceiling and something like 8m runs will still be possible but require a high gear zombie so with her heal you can keep your TM gain going longer.
  • I have 5 zetas assigned to NS. Being that Zombie is really the core element of this team and it’s ability to take Nihilus’ erratic and annoying unpredictable programming, we should be allowed to remove all zetas from NightSisters in order to decide for ourselves how we want them to be used. This we be totally fair to the community. It would also show the player base that you are willing to make a compromise instead just stripping us of all our hard work

    I agree with this. Had I known this change was coming, I wouldn’t have used a zeta on Mother Talzin’s lead ability. I might re-use the refunded mats to zeta Daka again but I’m not sure yet. I’ll know after playing with the update for a bit. Overall I think the changes can be good but we should get all our mats and credits back for all nightsisters’ zetas so we can decide which ones we want to put back on. The majority of us will end up putting the zetas back on most of them however depending on how we use the team, we might not all put back the same ones. How was it decided that it would be Daka’s zeta that would be refunded? Zombie’s new G10 ability has the biggest impact on zeta Talzin lead teams. It greatly reduces the value of 3 zetas in this team.
  • Just had our first guildmate quit the game because of this(and previous) garbage. He was nearly 3 mil GP too.

    That being said, I don’t like how this looks either...BUT, we really don’t know until we have a few runs at P3/P4. PvP videos are already out so we can at least judge those somewhat.

    I think they should hold off refunding any zetas until a few weeks after the release...this way we can see if the zetas still are Raid viable post update but not get stuck with them if they are not.

    If this really is the nerf it appears to be, then we should have the option to refund ALL zetas for NS. There’s no way you can think this change doesn’t affect the entire faction.
  • I still say hat best would be to make endless horde revive unlock at high gear.

    Even with this mechanic:
    Unlock- g10
    Beginning of fight - zombie has Taunt buff and buff of endless horde. Can be dispelled, comes back after zombie deals damage.

    G12, zeta
    Beginning of fight- zombie has taunt buff and undispellable buff of endless horde.


  • Translation - "we noticed more and more people scoring big in P3 of our beloved sith raid so we decided to alter the function of a character that we've been perfectly fine with for almost a year". I swear, these people couldn't care less about known issues until the impact the raid. Really getting sick of getting **** on and being told it's raining.
  • Most people in this thread have no clue what they are talking about. They only use ns because they saw a video of how to do it, but they never would have come up with the strategy on their own. So now we just need to wait for a gc to post a video of how this is still viable after the changes and everyone will be happy. Because very few here can take a block of text and derive a strategy from it, they will not be satisfied with any amount of discussion.
  • Franimus wrote: »
    Most people in this thread have no clue what they are talking about. They only use ns because they saw a video of how to do it, but they never would have come up with the strategy on their own. So now we just need to wait for a gc to post a video of how this is still viable after the changes and everyone will be happy. Because very few here can take a block of text and derive a strategy from it, they will not be satisfied with any amount of discussion.

    While some of this is true, the mechanics behind zombie dying and asaaj gaining offence were very simple..... That being said, we shouldn't need a degree in calculus to read and interpret a character's kit....
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Franimus wrote: »
    Most people in this thread have no clue what they are talking about. They only use ns because they saw a video of how to do it, but they never would have come up with the strategy on their own. So now we just need to wait for a gc to post a video of how this is still viable after the changes and everyone will be happy. Because very few here can take a block of text and derive a strategy from it, they will not be satisfied with any amount of discussion.

    While some of this is true, the mechanics behind zombie dying and asaaj gaining offence were very simple..... That being said, we shouldn't need a degree in calculus to read and interpret a character's kit....

    Bubba i couldn't agree more it is very simple mechanic zombie dies as often and AV get stacks and it was advertised as such

  • Franimus wrote: »
    Most people in this thread have no clue what they are talking about. They only use ns because they saw a video of how to do it, but they never would have come up with the strategy on their own. So now we just need to wait for a gc to post a video of how this is still viable after the changes and everyone will be happy. Because very few here can take a block of text and derive a strategy from it, they will not be satisfied with any amount of discussion.

    The point is that people have been endlessly complaining about paper zombie mechanics and it has fallen of deaf ears. Once someone figures out how to use it as an advantage in the sith raid, all of a sudden the devs take action. This isn't the first instance of this and it certainly won't be the last.
  • I regret putting a zeta on Vader's lead. I want that refunded. /sarcasm
  • We'll have to wait and see if this actually nerfs zombie in p4 of the raid. A g8 zombie shoud be able to take a few turns between deaths so can get the speed up from taking bonds of weakness dmg. That should help her taunt more.

    But with that being said, I think CG made this overly complicated. All that really was necessary was a slight change to asajj's and daka's kits to make the stacking offense and health on deaths except zombie. And then add the stacking offense and health when zombie takes damage but doesn't die.

    A simple change to the kit. Zombie would be better at higher gear in all cases with that simple change and daka and assaj aren't nerfed and the strategy changes little.

    @CG_TopHat please consider this change instead or in addition to the ones you are implementing. That way zeta assajj and zeta daka are still useful.

    this might the smartest post read so far in this thread

    Not wait & see, if you use NS at all, you already know what this will do to them & thats nore days farming down. This is bull
  • Pile wrote: »
    Franimus wrote: »
    Most people in this thread have no clue what they are talking about. They only use ns because they saw a video of how to do it, but they never would have come up with the strategy on their own. So now we just need to wait for a gc to post a video of how this is still viable after the changes and everyone will be happy. Because very few here can take a block of text and derive a strategy from it, they will not be satisfied with any amount of discussion.

    The point is that people have been endlessly complaining about paper zombie mechanics and it has fallen of deaf ears. Once someone figures out how to use it as an advantage in the sith raid, all of a sudden the devs take action. This isn't the first instance of this and it certainly won't be the last.

    They have dismantled every single team that scores a high percentage on that abhorrent raid! Even the teams they tell us to farm or give bonuses to. Assajj works for Haat, but other than & Pvp NS are done. Even then, all but 1 Zeta is useless & it in itself is useless so...yeah
  • Ariella wrote: »
    I'm hopeful that the lack of comment regarding the negative feedback on Undying Sacrifice means they're having a good old think on how they can improve it

    Me too
Sign In or Register to comment.