Serious Flaw with NS Zombie re-work
September 28, 2018 6:13PM
edited September 2018
Okay I’m going to try and stay calm as I write this but it’s seriosuly wound me up because I fear it is working as intended.
Please, no mansplaining required. I’m not an **** and as much as this sucks, I guess I’ll eventually adapt.
But I need to address Undying Sacrifice:
Firstly, I thought the change which causes Zombie to take the first 2 deaths of any NS ally for herself was poor. It was a direct nerf to the legitimate Sith raid Phase 3 team under Talzin. It stank.
But that’s not what I’m mad about.
When I read the description of the skill (which is ambiguous to say the least) and replies from @cg_tophat in the mega thread, I thought okay...
You’ve killed the paper Zombie by forcing players to upgrade to G10 on the premise that without Undying Sacrifice, Zombie can perma-die with -100% Speed.
With this skill, she won’t perma-die.
So far, so good.
Then I read it such that upon death, all status effects cleared - including the -100% Speed.
The reality is, if Zombie dies for a 3rd time with -100% Speed on her, she will revive, but she can NEVER take a turn again.
That’s it, she’s done. Her only remaining use it to die a few more times from AOE attacks (because no sane player or AI will bother to target her) which maybe powers up Asajj and Daka a little more. But frankly, she might as well be dead at that point.
This is so disheartening because fundamentally, Nighsisters are at their best when they’re dying frequently. It’s what I find deliciously enticing about the faction, it’s cruel and brutal and intoxicatingly good fun having your sisters die only to become stronger for it.
Except now, Zombie’s rules are: she can die twice with impunity but should she die a third time, she MUST NOT have a -100% Speed penalty on her or she will be completely neutralised... so you must constantly concern yourself with the current +speed advantages or lack of them on her.
Great. Head spinningly badly written, really poorly designed in my opinion and totally unnecessary to boot (and yes I know something had to change to address the paper Zombie but this neutralising change absolutely didn’t Have to happen).
If you’re still reading and are confused or just want to laugh at the joke that is Zombie in Sith raid P4 now, here’s a clip which illustrates the issue:-
https://streamable.com/fz3f6
The Zombie is G11.5, with well over 200 Speed. As you can see, she never recovers from dying with the -50% penalty... and while she’ll resurrect until infinity, once dead at -100%, she becomes utterly useless.
I am so bitterly disappointed by this.
Please, no mansplaining required. I’m not an **** and as much as this sucks, I guess I’ll eventually adapt.
But I need to address Undying Sacrifice:
Firstly, I thought the change which causes Zombie to take the first 2 deaths of any NS ally for herself was poor. It was a direct nerf to the legitimate Sith raid Phase 3 team under Talzin. It stank.
But that’s not what I’m mad about.
When I read the description of the skill (which is ambiguous to say the least) and replies from @cg_tophat in the mega thread, I thought okay...
You’ve killed the paper Zombie by forcing players to upgrade to G10 on the premise that without Undying Sacrifice, Zombie can perma-die with -100% Speed.
With this skill, she won’t perma-die.
So far, so good.
Then I read it such that upon death, all status effects cleared - including the -100% Speed.
The reality is, if Zombie dies for a 3rd time with -100% Speed on her, she will revive, but she can NEVER take a turn again.
That’s it, she’s done. Her only remaining use it to die a few more times from AOE attacks (because no sane player or AI will bother to target her) which maybe powers up Asajj and Daka a little more. But frankly, she might as well be dead at that point.
This is so disheartening because fundamentally, Nighsisters are at their best when they’re dying frequently. It’s what I find deliciously enticing about the faction, it’s cruel and brutal and intoxicatingly good fun having your sisters die only to become stronger for it.
Except now, Zombie’s rules are: she can die twice with impunity but should she die a third time, she MUST NOT have a -100% Speed penalty on her or she will be completely neutralised... so you must constantly concern yourself with the current +speed advantages or lack of them on her.
Great. Head spinningly badly written, really poorly designed in my opinion and totally unnecessary to boot (and yes I know something had to change to address the paper Zombie but this neutralising change absolutely didn’t Have to happen).
If you’re still reading and are confused or just want to laugh at the joke that is Zombie in Sith raid P4 now, here’s a clip which illustrates the issue:-
https://streamable.com/fz3f6
The Zombie is G11.5, with well over 200 Speed. As you can see, she never recovers from dying with the -50% penalty... and while she’ll resurrect until infinity, once dead at -100%, she becomes utterly useless.
I am so bitterly disappointed by this.
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Replies
They seemed so much fun when introduced, but everything thats been cool about then, has been completely undone since then.
On a side note, it's also hilarious that you can get your -100% speed zombi up to 100% TM quite easily with Asajj lead, but she still won't ever take a turn. So apparantly you need speed to get from 100% TM to 100% TM xD
I lol'ed hard at this. I still beat Traya teams, actually they and the empire teams are now even easier. I have a video of NS Asajj (mine) vs NS Mother Talzin (opponent) lead, link is below. Seriously though this was a boost to NS it only hurts you if you relied on paper zombie as your only legitimate strategy for them.
None of the discussion points were about PVP? In that regard, I am happy to see the boost and think the removal of paper Zombie was absolutely appropriate. We were discussing very Raid specific mechanics.
And the very specific part of my expression of disappointment had absolutely nothing to do with a reliance on paper Zombie. So I’m really unsure what you think you’re offering to this discussion thread but if you have any salient points to make, please do go ahead
Your a kitten? point made! Cry some more about a change upsetting you in a game. Lol.
Thats incorrect, if zombie survives an attack against her (AoE Counts), then she gains 50% back for a total of -50% speed.
Only if she survives to turn start. If she has -100% speed she never gets a turn to knock one of the stacks off.
Ironic that you accuse somebody of crying about a change made to game mechanics when the first thread you created in these forums was about crying over the devs needing to fix Asajj's AI. Anyways...
Agree with you Ariella, if the intent was to prevent paper Zombie to be better than a well-geared version, mission accomplished. The -100% speed effect not clearing upon death even with her new unique, absolutely unnecessary.
Indeed - there’s an example of this in the video at about 1:20. Sion fires AOE, Zombie survives but retains -100% Speed. She’s even called to assist but that doesn’t count as a turn.
she'll be with unbreakable will all the time, then you can go ahead and just hit them all until they are dead.
Would that work? 0 speed means she will never take a turn right? Even at 100% TM
. . . . .. . . . .. . ... .. .. . . THIS RGHT HERE 😉^^^^^^^^^^^^
I love your thinking!! Please someone try this. I suspect that perhaps the Thrawn TM swap won't work
Discord: Iona Starbound#5299
Wooot?!
It makes sense, that a fractured character never takes a turn, since it never reaches 100% TM, but having a character at 100% TM never take a turn is silly. Having 100% TM always meant that the character was ready to take a turn.
Nice thinking but if Zombie gets to -100% Speed, even if Thrawn passes TM to her, she won’t take a turn so therefore can’t use unbreakable will.
And if you stick unbreakable will on her before she has the -100% Speed, she’ll eventually take a turn and lose it.
And, even if it did work, scoring well in this phase requires lots of TM regain, and isolating a character from taking turns in this way makes that a lot harder to achieve so it wouldn’t really be all that great
thats why someone need to try XD
anyway, there are various problems with this teamcomp.. if it succeed and zomb does manage to have 0 speed and unbreakable will, when AoE enrages hit, the whole team will die besides Zomb, and it will be stuck on infinite loop forever, cant take a turn, retreat or whatever.
i couldnt care much, im not Lugo after all, just curious how it will go.
I guarantee passing TM to zombie from Thrawn will still not enable her to take a turn. Tophat also clarified the mechanics of players with 0 speed and referenced a Thrawn scenario in the mega thread.
The solution to me is quite simple: clear the -100 Speed upon death, every time.
This still keeps a paper Zombie out of the game because below G10, they can’t activate the Undying Sacrifice ability anyway so would actually just stay dead.
But having gone to the trouble of gearing up a zombie, she shouldn’t be punished for dying. I’ll say again - the entire premise of the Nightsister faction is build upon them growing stronger as they die. To penalise a character which is supposed to stay alive simple for dying without a speed bonus on her is quite ridiculous in the context of their skill set.
Can a geared zombie really not get a turn off before getting killed? With all the turn meter gains? That's the point now, you gotta make the zombie survivable, so if she isn't, you need to do different crafting to up survival... Health mods (which she now cures 20% of her health to the team)? I heard g12 also makes a difference...
This will force a change in strategy, no doubt, but people are still reporting good scores in p3 and p4. And this change definitely makes them more arena viable.
That said, perhaps at high gear levels and the right mods, she'll have a big enough health pool and be fast enough to ensure that she'll never end up in that limbo state where she'll be forever stuck and unable to taunt; even in phase 3 of the heroic sith raid. If she's durable and fast enough, it may be possible to keep her at +50% and +100% speed throughout the run, and this could possibly result in more dmg. Sure, she'd die less often, meaning less offense for Ventress, but on the other hand she'd call the dead to assist more often, meaning more offense for Ventress and more tm from the assists. So unless I'm missing something, the phase 3 team may actually end up doing more dmg.
Anyway, I did 6 million in the last heroic sith raid, and have another raid starting in a few hours. She's only gear 8 though, so the limbo state may be unavoidable for me. Her health pool is just 20.4k, and speed is 203.
The only ppl that wanted to move one were the talzin leads
I dont get their decision process sometimes, it straight up rewards the ppl that were exploiting paper zombie and punishes the people who picked the wrong leader zeta...
Like i said it gives asajj talzins ability for free (basically) but talzin gets... zilch
Its like her lead is lvl 7 unless the match runs 4min 50 seconds lol
It’s RNG dependent whether a geared zombie can get a turn in before another death.
Let’s say Traya is up, and Zombie is taunting. Even with high gear, Traya is fully capable of 1-hit killing Zombie with her saber throw. But Traya could take 3 turns!
Let’s say Traya and Sion take consecutive turns, which isn’t all that unusual a thing to happen after a long run of turn meter train.
It’s really not all that unlikely to see Zombie dying a couple of times.
I will however concede, as I did in my opening post, that like any good player I will adapt to this and more carefully monitor the buffs on zombie and ensure I don’t let her die for the fun of it.
But my big issues here are firstly, this is so unnecessary, secondly, it really over complicates things and finally, it’s against the spirit of the faction which actively encourages having sisters occasionally die