The Last Jedi

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I have very mixed feelings on The Last Jedi. Some things are bad, and some are good. I thought we could have some fun here. Ask me questions regarding The Last Jedi and I’ll try to answer. Not that anyone cares what I think

Replies

  • I have very mixed feelings on The Last Jedi. Some things are bad, and some are good. I thought we could have some fun here. Ask me questions regarding The Last Jedi and I’ll try to answer. Not that anyone cares what I think

    Did Luke die or not?
  • I believe he did. It makes sense for Force Projection to be very straining. It wouldn't make much sense for him to be alive (other than J.J. Abrams just not liking what Rian Johnson did with VIII). I also think it would be better for him to do an extraordinary feat with the Force (basically a much cooler version of Yoda's lightning bolt as a Force ghost). Perhaps they will get supernatural with IX and Luke will come back for a little bit. I think it'd be a great twist if Rey died in the middle of the movie and then Luke defeated Kylo in the final battle.
  • I believe he did. It makes sense for Force Projection to be very straining. It wouldn't make much sense for him to be alive (other than J.J. Abrams just not liking what Rian Johnson did with VIII). I also think it would be better for him to do an extraordinary feat with the Force (basically a much cooler version of Yoda's lightning bolt as a Force ghost). Perhaps they will get supernatural with IX and Luke will come back for a little bit. I think it'd be a great twist if Rey died in the middle of the movie and then Luke defeated Kylo in the final battle.

    I’m so annoyed that they have killed off luke hate it bring back lucas
  • I as well wish he were still alive, and I as well wish George Lucas was still in control. However, he said himself that fans would have hated his VII-IX. People might say that wouldn't of, but the truth is they would have. People cannot be pleased. Not all of them at least. That's life. There's never going to be a movie that pleases everyone. I'm a diehard Star Wars fan, and at first hated TLJ. But then I realized that it's just a movie series and I'll live. And that's coming from a guy who constantly says Star Wars is a documentary. Hey, at least Disney admitted they made mistakes, and at least Clone Wars is getting a new season. The Mandalorian also seems to be shaping into quite a show. So glad Dave Filoni is directing the first episode! Filoni is single handedly keeping Star Wars great! Although Gareth Edwards and Ron Howard did amazing as well!
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    There’s a mega thread for this that’s been up since the movie came out. Go there instead
  • This is mainly so people can ask me my opinions on the movie. Again, not that anyone cares what I think
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    You can do that on the megathread
  • Oh god I really hated this movie
  • How can Luke reconnect that fast with the force? If force projection requires a deadly amount of focus, but he admits he severed his link to the force, how can he do it?
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    I have very mixed feelings on The Last Jedi. Some things are bad, and some are good. I thought we could have some fun here. Ask me questions regarding The Last Jedi and I’ll try to answer. Not that anyone cares what I think

    Did Luke die or not?

    Kylo clearly states earlier in the movie (when he first communicates with Rey) "How are you doing this, it would kill you".

    I believe Luke to be dead, but he could have had such a strong projection that he projected himself off planet - Mark has said this himself in interviews - so with JJ back, anything is possible for E9.
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    How can Luke reconnect that fast with the force? If force projection requires a deadly amount of focus, but he admits he severed his link to the force, how can he do it?

    We have seen this before in the now non-cannon EU - Kyle Katarn did this following the events of the first Jedi Knight game and had to reconnect to the Force in Jedi Knight 2 - although it took him all game to regain his power, but then again, he's no Skywalker.
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    This is mainly so people can ask me my opinions on the movie. Again, not that anyone cares what I think

    Here's a few questions:

    1. If Luke wanted the Jedi to end and no longer cared for the Jedi - why was he wearing his Jedi robes at the end of TFA/beginning of TLJ - then quickly changes into hermit clothing when Rey shows up?
    2. Holdo ramming First Order fleet using lightspeed ("The Holdo Maneuver") - why was this not the first thing they did with one of their many cruisers and kept their entire fleet at the start of the movie - would have saved ships and lives?
    Also why was this not done to the Death Star of Star Killer Base etc? - would have saved countless lives. This plot hole (although appeared cool is a major flaw in the overall story of star wars and makes prior movies and battles now seem ridiculous).
    3. Snoke's backstory/origin - is it important.
    4. How is Rey so powerful and so quickly - advancing faster than the Chosen One (Anakin) and his son (Luke)? Why is Rey able to defeat a Skywalker (Kylo)?
    5. Why did Kylo Ren not use the force against Snoke's Guards - particularly when he lost his lightsaber?
    6. Why was Luke on that island?
    7. Why would Luke want to kill his nephew, who had done nothing wrong, yet save a father he barely knew who was an evil Sith Lord?


    These are but a few major questions I and many star wars fans have with TLJ and some key points as to why TLJ is seen as a terrible movie.

    I look forward to your explanations/answers.
    :smiley:
  • Boo wrote: »
    This is mainly so people can ask me my opinions on the movie. Again, not that anyone cares what I think

    Here's a few questions:

    1. If Luke wanted the Jedi to end and no longer cared for the Jedi - why was he wearing his Jedi robes at the end of TFA/beginning of TLJ - then quickly changes into hermit clothing when Rey shows up?
    2. Holdo ramming First Order fleet using lightspeed ("The Holdo Maneuver") - why was this not the first thing they did with one of their many cruisers and kept their entire fleet at the start of the movie - would have saved ships and lives?
    Also why was this not done to the Death Star of Star Killer Base etc? - would have saved countless lives. This plot hole (although appeared cool is a major flaw in the overall story of star wars and makes prior movies and battles now seem ridiculous).
    3. Snoke's backstory/origin - is it important.
    4. How is Rey so powerful and so quickly - advancing faster than the Chosen One (Anakin) and his son (Luke)? Why is Rey able to defeat a Skywalker (Kylo)?
    5. Why did Kylo Ren not use the force against Snoke's Guards - particularly when he lost his lightsaber?
    6. Why was Luke on that island?
    7. Why would Luke want to kill his nephew, who had done nothing wrong, yet save a father he barely knew who was an evil Sith Lord?


    These are but a few major questions I and many star wars fans have with TLJ and some key points as to why TLJ is seen as a terrible movie.

    I look forward to your explanations/answers.
    :smiley:

    1) he was wearing the same clothes he came to the island with. I doubt he thought, "I should go into hiding, but first let me buy new clothes"
    2) That maneuver has to be done from a very short distance because in the grand scheme of things, hitting something even the size of the death star, traveling at light speed, from a distance the scanners wouldn't pick up, is nearly impossible. The only reason it worked is because all canons were firing at the cruisers headed towards Crait. The only computer capable of doing so was on the Falcon as evidenced by TFA and Solo movie. Also, it's a movie.
    3) no.
    4) Kylo's defeat from Rey is explained in TLJ and happened in TFA, so not relevant to the topic. Rey's rapid progress is a gap in the plot relative to all the other movies that also had plot holes. It's my biggest complaint about the story arc.
    5) This is a recurring theme in all the movies. You could ask the same question about the duel between Maul and QGJ. Why did Maul utilize the force in battle and QGJ seemingly did not?
    6) that was also explained in the movie, but if you mean "if he wanted the jedi to go extinct, then why escape to the most holy of jedi locations" then I'd theorize it's because so few knew it even existed and any other habitable planets risked encounters with people who knew who he was.
    7) fear of having to relive that experience. Because even the most devout / holy are fallible. This is a recurring theme in the star wars universe. And it's explained that the moment was fleeting. He previously DID want to kill Vader, but had time to reflect upon the consequence of those actions. In the sequence described in TLJ, he saw the future, and had a misguided, but short lived, reaction that was antithesis to his beliefs.
  • Life creates the Force. Some gifted living individuals have the ability to tap into the Force to give themselves extraordinary abilities. BUT if they do "too much" Force-tapping, then they die? What? Why? Doesn't that seem like a counter-productive interaction? The Force destroys that which creates it? That does not seem logical to me, and it has never been a possible consequence in any prior story.

    In a universe where Ezra the padawan can walk around in an alternate dimension that provides a time-space portal to pretty much anywhere/anytime, a dimension in which he saved Ahsoka from certain death at the hands of Vader, a dimension that Sidious could fill with a river of blue fire, do you really think it makes sense to die from tapping too deeply into the Force, and that a non-corporeal astral projection of one's self between planets would define that life or death limit?

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A_World_Between_Worlds
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    @rebel_yell this was not for you but for @GreedoShot2nd

    But I will rebut your points very clearly.

    1) he was wearing the same clothes he came to the island with. I doubt he thought, "I should go into hiding, but first let me buy new clothes"

    He had fresh clothes that he put on immediately - clearly had other clothing. JJ set Luke up to be levitating boulders upon Rey's arrival - the scene was altered before the movie's release upon Johnson's script - turning Luke into the monstrosity we see in TLJ.

    2) That maneuver has to be done from a very short distance because in the grand scheme of things, hitting something even the size of the death star, traveling at light speed, from a distance the scanners wouldn't pick up, is nearly impossible. The only reason it worked is because all canons were firing at the cruisers headed towards Crait. The only computer capable of doing so was on the Falcon as evidenced by TFA and Solo movie. Also, it's a movie.

    So when the Star Destroyers were merely there to stop the Rebel's escaping at the battle of Endor - the Rebel fleet was close enough to the death star - is it not possible that one of their many capital ships could have used the Holdo maneuver against the death star and/or the imperial fleet? Like I say, although it looked cool, this move in TLJ is detrimentally lore breaking for the Star Wars universe, like it or not.

    3) no.

    Yes - We essentially came into the middle of the story with the OT a 2 part story Fall of a hero (PT) and his redemption (OT). Palpatine's rise to power required no explanation in ROTJ because that was the end of the story. We saw his rise to power in the PT. The entire point of this story overall was good over evil. We rooted for the Emperor to be defeated and have good triumph! What was the point when someone as evil or more so just shows up out of nowere - shattering the purpose of the previous 6 saga movies completely without explanation. For the audience invested in the story - that requires a little explanation, at least for the purposes of good story telling and continuity.

    4) Kylo's defeat from Rey is explained in TLJ and happened in TFA, so not relevant to the topic. Rey's rapid progress is a gap in the plot relative to all the other movies that also had plot holes. It's my biggest complaint about the story arc.

    It is a huge complaint in the story arc - however, aside from beating a trained force user & lightsaber combatant who is a Skywalker in direct battle - despite being injured, she bested Kylo in the force...a Skywalker remember, when he used his mind probe, she went so far as to turn it against him! She also beats him in the tug of war with the lightsaber on Starkiller base! Again...all without any training at all.

    Where Anakin was the force itself personified and the most powerful being to weild the force (although he did not meet his full potential) and Luke his direct descendant - they too could not master the force as fast, and they too had failings, where Rey seems to get on without any issues at all...puzzling indeed.


    5) This is a recurring theme in all the movies. You could ask the same question about the duel between Maul and QGJ. Why did Maul utilize the force in battle and QGJ seemingly did not?

    Maul was not that proficient in the force - he clearly did not have the ability for lightening. An accomplished Master such as QGJ would defend against his force attacks. We see the force used many times in duels - Yoda v. Dooku, Yoda v. Sidious, Anakin v. Obi Wan, Maul v. Obi Wan, Vader v. Luke - I could go on and on. But there is a subtle battle always going on between force users and its the ability to guard against force attacks - such as Yoda's "contest" with Dooku. Clearly in TLJ Snoke's Guard do not use the force - Kylo failed to use the force against them when he should have done so - no other than for creating a terribly written "dramatic scene" - good old Rian Johnson!

    6) that was also explained in the movie, but if you mean "if he wanted the jedi to go extinct, then why escape to the most holy of jedi locations" then I'd theorize it's because so few knew it even existed and any other habitable planets risked encounters with people who knew who he was.

    Partly true, but Johnson's commentary over TLJ was that Luke wanted the cycle of good and evil to end - he does this (letting the good "die") by leaving when the galaxy is already in control of Snoke and Kylo - not very smart. If this was Luke's plan he would have defeated them and then allowed the galaxy its peace. I understand what Johnson was trying to do - but he executed poorly, very poorly.

    7) fear of having to relive that experience. Because even the most devout / holy are fallible. This is a recurring theme in the star wars universe. And it's explained that the moment was fleeting. He previously DID want to kill Vader, but had time to reflect upon the consequence of those actions. In the sequence described in TLJ, he saw the future, and had a misguided, but short lived, reaction that was antithesis to his beliefs.

    No - Luke was made to fail so Rey can shine. Luke was what was pure - risking his own life to save a Princess in the Death Star in ANH, his friends on Bespin in TESB and the Galaxy in ROTJ - he was pure good that would do anything he could because he was doing what was right. Rey is that person now. The fact he would consider killing his own nephew goes against every fiber of his character, not exactly Kennedy's promise to Lucas about preserving and protecting the characters he created as we know them is it?

    Of course I do not want to get in trouble on here, so I totally support that you have different opinions than mine :wink:
  • Boo wrote: »
    @rebel_yell this was not for you but for @GreedoShot2nd

    But I will rebut your points very clearly.

    1) he was wearing the same clothes he came to the island with. I doubt he thought, "I should go into hiding, but first let me buy new clothes"

    He had fresh clothes that he put on immediately - clearly had other clothing. JJ set Luke up to be levitating boulders upon Rey's arrival - the scene was altered before the movie's release upon Johnson's script - turning Luke into the monstrosity we see in TLJ.

    2) That maneuver has to be done from a very short distance because in the grand scheme of things, hitting something even the size of the death star, traveling at light speed, from a distance the scanners wouldn't pick up, is nearly impossible. The only reason it worked is because all canons were firing at the cruisers headed towards Crait. The only computer capable of doing so was on the Falcon as evidenced by TFA and Solo movie. Also, it's a movie.

    So when the Star Destroyers were merely there to stop the Rebel's escaping at the battle of Endor - the Rebel fleet was close enough to the death star - is it not possible that one of their many capital ships could have used the Holdo maneuver against the death star and/or the imperial fleet? Like I say, although it looked cool, this move in TLJ is detrimentally lore breaking for the Star Wars universe, like it or not.

    3) no.

    Yes - We essentially came into the middle of the story with the OT a 2 part story Fall of a hero (PT) and his redemption (OT). Palpatine's rise to power required no explanation in ROTJ because that was the end of the story. We saw his rise to power in the PT. The entire point of this story overall was good over evil. We rooted for the Emperor to be defeated and have good triumph! What was the point when someone as evil or more so just shows up out of nowere - shattering the purpose of the previous 6 saga movies completely without explanation. For the audience invested in the story - that requires a little explanation, at least for the purposes of good story telling and continuity.

    4) Kylo's defeat from Rey is explained in TLJ and happened in TFA, so not relevant to the topic. Rey's rapid progress is a gap in the plot relative to all the other movies that also had plot holes. It's my biggest complaint about the story arc.

    It is a huge complaint in the story arc - however, aside from beating a trained force user & lightsaber combatant who is a Skywalker in direct battle - despite being injured, she bested Kylo in the force...a Skywalker remember, when he used his mind probe, she went so far as to turn it against him! She also beats him in the tug of war with the lightsaber on Starkiller base! Again...all without any training at all.

    Where Anakin was the force itself personified and the most powerful being to weild the force (although he did not meet his full potential) and Luke his direct descendant - they too could not master the force as fast, and they too had failings, where Rey seems to get on without any issues at all...puzzling indeed.


    5) This is a recurring theme in all the movies. You could ask the same question about the duel between Maul and QGJ. Why did Maul utilize the force in battle and QGJ seemingly did not?

    Maul was not that proficient in the force - he clearly did not have the ability for lightening. An accomplished Master such as QGJ would defend against his force attacks. We see the force used many times in duels - Yoda v. Dooku, Yoda v. Sidious, Anakin v. Obi Wan, Maul v. Obi Wan, Vader v. Luke - I could go on and on. But there is a subtle battle always going on between force users and its the ability to guard against force attacks - such as Yoda's "contest" with Dooku. Clearly in TLJ Snoke's Guard do not use the force - Kylo failed to use the force against them when he should have done so - no other than for creating a terribly written "dramatic scene" - good old Rian Johnson!

    6) that was also explained in the movie, but if you mean "if he wanted the jedi to go extinct, then why escape to the most holy of jedi locations" then I'd theorize it's because so few knew it even existed and any other habitable planets risked encounters with people who knew who he was.

    Partly true, but Johnson's commentary over TLJ was that Luke wanted the cycle of good and evil to end - he does this (letting the good "die") by leaving when the galaxy is already in control of Snoke and Kylo - not very smart. If this was Luke's plan he would have defeated them and then allowed the galaxy its peace. I understand what Johnson was trying to do - but he executed poorly, very poorly.

    7) fear of having to relive that experience. Because even the most devout / holy are fallible. This is a recurring theme in the star wars universe. And it's explained that the moment was fleeting. He previously DID want to kill Vader, but had time to reflect upon the consequence of those actions. In the sequence described in TLJ, he saw the future, and had a misguided, but short lived, reaction that was antithesis to his beliefs.

    No - Luke was made to fail so Rey can shine. Luke was what was pure - risking his own life to save a Princess in the Death Star in ANH, his friends on Bespin in TESB and the Galaxy in ROTJ - he was pure good that would do anything he could because he was doing what was right. Rey is that person now. The fact he would consider killing his own nephew goes against every fiber of his character, not exactly Kennedy's promise to Lucas about preserving and protecting the characters he created as we know them is it?

    Of course I do not want to get in trouble on here, so I totally support that you have different opinions than mine :wink:

    then why put a wink at the end?
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    @rebel_yell this was not for you but for @GreedoShot2nd

    But I will rebut your points very clearly.

    1) he was wearing the same clothes he came to the island with. I doubt he thought, "I should go into hiding, but first let me buy new clothes"

    He had fresh clothes that he put on immediately - clearly had other clothing. JJ set Luke up to be levitating boulders upon Rey's arrival - the scene was altered before the movie's release upon Johnson's script - turning Luke into the monstrosity we see in TLJ.

    2) That maneuver has to be done from a very short distance because in the grand scheme of things, hitting something even the size of the death star, traveling at light speed, from a distance the scanners wouldn't pick up, is nearly impossible. The only reason it worked is because all canons were firing at the cruisers headed towards Crait. The only computer capable of doing so was on the Falcon as evidenced by TFA and Solo movie. Also, it's a movie.

    So when the Star Destroyers were merely there to stop the Rebel's escaping at the battle of Endor - the Rebel fleet was close enough to the death star - is it not possible that one of their many capital ships could have used the Holdo maneuver against the death star and/or the imperial fleet? Like I say, although it looked cool, this move in TLJ is detrimentally lore breaking for the Star Wars universe, like it or not.

    3) no.

    Yes - We essentially came into the middle of the story with the OT a 2 part story Fall of a hero (PT) and his redemption (OT). Palpatine's rise to power required no explanation in ROTJ because that was the end of the story. We saw his rise to power in the PT. The entire point of this story overall was good over evil. We rooted for the Emperor to be defeated and have good triumph! What was the point when someone as evil or more so just shows up out of nowere - shattering the purpose of the previous 6 saga movies completely without explanation. For the audience invested in the story - that requires a little explanation, at least for the purposes of good story telling and continuity.

    4) Kylo's defeat from Rey is explained in TLJ and happened in TFA, so not relevant to the topic. Rey's rapid progress is a gap in the plot relative to all the other movies that also had plot holes. It's my biggest complaint about the story arc.

    It is a huge complaint in the story arc - however, aside from beating a trained force user & lightsaber combatant who is a Skywalker in direct battle - despite being injured, she bested Kylo in the force...a Skywalker remember, when he used his mind probe, she went so far as to turn it against him! She also beats him in the tug of war with the lightsaber on Starkiller base! Again...all without any training at all.

    Where Anakin was the force itself personified and the most powerful being to weild the force (although he did not meet his full potential) and Luke his direct descendant - they too could not master the force as fast, and they too had failings, where Rey seems to get on without any issues at all...puzzling indeed.


    5) This is a recurring theme in all the movies. You could ask the same question about the duel between Maul and QGJ. Why did Maul utilize the force in battle and QGJ seemingly did not?

    Maul was not that proficient in the force - he clearly did not have the ability for lightening. An accomplished Master such as QGJ would defend against his force attacks. We see the force used many times in duels - Yoda v. Dooku, Yoda v. Sidious, Anakin v. Obi Wan, Maul v. Obi Wan, Vader v. Luke - I could go on and on. But there is a subtle battle always going on between force users and its the ability to guard against force attacks - such as Yoda's "contest" with Dooku. Clearly in TLJ Snoke's Guard do not use the force - Kylo failed to use the force against them when he should have done so - no other than for creating a terribly written "dramatic scene" - good old Rian Johnson!

    6) that was also explained in the movie, but if you mean "if he wanted the jedi to go extinct, then why escape to the most holy of jedi locations" then I'd theorize it's because so few knew it even existed and any other habitable planets risked encounters with people who knew who he was.

    Partly true, but Johnson's commentary over TLJ was that Luke wanted the cycle of good and evil to end - he does this (letting the good "die") by leaving when the galaxy is already in control of Snoke and Kylo - not very smart. If this was Luke's plan he would have defeated them and then allowed the galaxy its peace. I understand what Johnson was trying to do - but he executed poorly, very poorly.

    7) fear of having to relive that experience. Because even the most devout / holy are fallible. This is a recurring theme in the star wars universe. And it's explained that the moment was fleeting. He previously DID want to kill Vader, but had time to reflect upon the consequence of those actions. In the sequence described in TLJ, he saw the future, and had a misguided, but short lived, reaction that was antithesis to his beliefs.

    No - Luke was made to fail so Rey can shine. Luke was what was pure - risking his own life to save a Princess in the Death Star in ANH, his friends on Bespin in TESB and the Galaxy in ROTJ - he was pure good that would do anything he could because he was doing what was right. Rey is that person now. The fact he would consider killing his own nephew goes against every fiber of his character, not exactly Kennedy's promise to Lucas about preserving and protecting the characters he created as we know them is it?

    Of course I do not want to get in trouble on here, so I totally support that you have different opinions than mine :wink:

    then why put a wink at the end?

    Because I am entitled to an opinion too.
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    @GreedoShot2nd - I'm looking forward to your theories/responses to my questions.
  • Boo wrote: »
    @GreedoShot2nd - I'm looking forward to your theories/responses to my questions.

    All right. Again, not that anyone cares what I think, but I'll answer them as best as I can. I might have to wait a little, but I'll do it today for sure
  • Boo wrote: »
    @GreedoShot2nd - I'm looking forward to your theories/responses to my questions.

    All right. Again, not that anyone cares what I think, but I'll answer them as best as I can. I might have to wait a little, but I'll do it today for sure

    You win the award for saying "not that anyone cares what i think" in one thread... come and give a bow and say... oh right yeah i forgot noone does

    Honestly you have a keen interest in star wars but stop the whole attention thing.. otherwise was a fun read on train home tonight
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    @GreedoShot2nd - I'm looking forward to your theories/responses to my questions.

    All right. Again, not that anyone cares what I think, but I'll answer them as best as I can. I might have to wait a little, but I'll do it today for sure

    Silence.
  • Boo wrote: »
    @rebel_yell this was not for you but for @GreedoShot2nd

    But I will rebut your points very clearly.

    1) he was wearing the same clothes he came to the island with. I doubt he thought, "I should go into hiding, but first let me buy new clothes"

    He had fresh clothes that he put on immediately - clearly had other clothing. JJ set Luke up to be levitating boulders upon Rey's arrival - the scene was altered before the movie's release upon Johnson's script - turning Luke into the monstrosity we see in TLJ.

    2) That maneuver has to be done from a very short distance because in the grand scheme of things, hitting something even the size of the death star, traveling at light speed, from a distance the scanners wouldn't pick up, is nearly impossible. The only reason it worked is because all canons were firing at the cruisers headed towards Crait. The only computer capable of doing so was on the Falcon as evidenced by TFA and Solo movie. Also, it's a movie.

    So when the Star Destroyers were merely there to stop the Rebel's escaping at the battle of Endor - the Rebel fleet was close enough to the death star - is it not possible that one of their many capital ships could have used the Holdo maneuver against the death star and/or the imperial fleet? Like I say, although it looked cool, this move in TLJ is detrimentally lore breaking for the Star Wars universe, like it or not.

    3) no.

    Yes - We essentially came into the middle of the story with the OT a 2 part story Fall of a hero (PT) and his redemption (OT). Palpatine's rise to power required no explanation in ROTJ because that was the end of the story. We saw his rise to power in the PT. The entire point of this story overall was good over evil. We rooted for the Emperor to be defeated and have good triumph! What was the point when someone as evil or more so just shows up out of nowere - shattering the purpose of the previous 6 saga movies completely without explanation. For the audience invested in the story - that requires a little explanation, at least for the purposes of good story telling and continuity.

    4) Kylo's defeat from Rey is explained in TLJ and happened in TFA, so not relevant to the topic. Rey's rapid progress is a gap in the plot relative to all the other movies that also had plot holes. It's my biggest complaint about the story arc.

    It is a huge complaint in the story arc - however, aside from beating a trained force user & lightsaber combatant who is a Skywalker in direct battle - despite being injured, she bested Kylo in the force...a Skywalker remember, when he used his mind probe, she went so far as to turn it against him! She also beats him in the tug of war with the lightsaber on Starkiller base! Again...all without any training at all.

    Where Anakin was the force itself personified and the most powerful being to weild the force (although he did not meet his full potential) and Luke his direct descendant - they too could not master the force as fast, and they too had failings, where Rey seems to get on without any issues at all...puzzling indeed.


    5) This is a recurring theme in all the movies. You could ask the same question about the duel between Maul and QGJ. Why did Maul utilize the force in battle and QGJ seemingly did not?

    Maul was not that proficient in the force - he clearly did not have the ability for lightening. An accomplished Master such as QGJ would defend against his force attacks. We see the force used many times in duels - Yoda v. Dooku, Yoda v. Sidious, Anakin v. Obi Wan, Maul v. Obi Wan, Vader v. Luke - I could go on and on. But there is a subtle battle always going on between force users and its the ability to guard against force attacks - such as Yoda's "contest" with Dooku. Clearly in TLJ Snoke's Guard do not use the force - Kylo failed to use the force against them when he should have done so - no other than for creating a terribly written "dramatic scene" - good old Rian Johnson!

    6) that was also explained in the movie, but if you mean "if he wanted the jedi to go extinct, then why escape to the most holy of jedi locations" then I'd theorize it's because so few knew it even existed and any other habitable planets risked encounters with people who knew who he was.

    Partly true, but Johnson's commentary over TLJ was that Luke wanted the cycle of good and evil to end - he does this (letting the good "die") by leaving when the galaxy is already in control of Snoke and Kylo - not very smart. If this was Luke's plan he would have defeated them and then allowed the galaxy its peace. I understand what Johnson was trying to do - but he executed poorly, very poorly.

    7) fear of having to relive that experience. Because even the most devout / holy are fallible. This is a recurring theme in the star wars universe. And it's explained that the moment was fleeting. He previously DID want to kill Vader, but had time to reflect upon the consequence of those actions. In the sequence described in TLJ, he saw the future, and had a misguided, but short lived, reaction that was antithesis to his beliefs.

    No - Luke was made to fail so Rey can shine. Luke was what was pure - risking his own life to save a Princess in the Death Star in ANH, his friends on Bespin in TESB and the Galaxy in ROTJ - he was pure good that would do anything he could because he was doing what was right. Rey is that person now. The fact he would consider killing his own nephew goes against every fiber of his character, not exactly Kennedy's promise to Lucas about preserving and protecting the characters he created as we know them is it?

    1) Source please?

    2) No snub fighter is going to do enough damage at lightspeed to destroy anything much larger than itself, and it's more strategically viable to not waste an entire captial ship (and the lives inhabiting it) when well-placed munitions will do (even if they have to be flown in the middle of said station). Plus, the Death Star had shields in place, whereas the Supremacy and its fleet did not. Holdo could've missed. Hux (in his consuming lust of arrogance) could've had all cannons bearing on her in time to prevent her jump, or raised the shields at the very least (to the detriment of the rest of his fleet). A billion-miillion-hundred things could've gone wrong to prevent her maneuver, which is why it's a longshot at best, which breaks nothing regarding canon. Godspeed indeed.

    3) Because Abrams is Rear Admiral Mystery Box. He's excellent at setup, but horrific at resolution. In this trilogy's case, he set up too many issues, and left (as per his usual) before answering anything. He couldn't resolve Lost. He couldn't resolve Super 8. He couldn't resolve Cloverfield. I don't think he'll resolve IX. It's no wonder why Johnson went his own way, eschewing the Mystery Box for a lesson more telling about the nature of legacy within the convolution of resolution.

    My personal theory, which I know Disneyfilm (q'est que c'est "Lucasfilm"?) won't follow through but whevs, is that Snoke has the power to transfer his life essence to others, and has done so through the Knights of Ren (and will continue to do so in IX), thus his need to strengthen Kylo to be the ultimate Dark Sider. More than likely, Snoke's power corrodes whatever form he inhabits, so he has to transfer to stay immortal, and with Kylo, it's possible that he would no longer need to transfer. It's also possible that he's still alive, inhabiting and corroding another Ren Knight (since they're rumored to appear in IX). It's an cliched but viable premise, which Disneyfilm won't follow through, but whevs.

    4) You're basically agreeing with the OP. He called it a complaint. For me, Rey represents that which is unknown about the Force and its ability to evolve. Personally, I'm still in the camp that Anakin should be the most powerful being to ever wield it (and he did eventually meet his full potential by fulfilling his destiny), but that's just me. This trilogy says that there was bound to be someone more powerful, enough to not require dogmatic training. Anakin received a decade of it. Luke - a few days. Rey - exponential, ain't it? And what, essentially, is training? Was Anakin taught how to foresee obstacles at high speed? Was Luke taught to use telekinesis to retrieve his lightsaber in the Wampa cave? Was Rey taught to rappel dilapidated cruisers, fly a quadjumper or a stock light frieghter, and fight with a melee weapon with the greatest of ease? The clues are there.

    5) This is a nitpick of mine, though the outcome would've been the same, albeit with unnecessary (kick ace) padding.

    6a) My personal theory is that, with all that Luke (and Snoke) spoke about "balance in the Force", he felt that if he cut himself off from the Force, that in turn would negate Kylo's power as well, without realizing that Rey existed to feed that balance. In essence, by not doing anything, he was saving the galaxy from Kylo (so he thought). Also, the galaxy wasn't under the control of Snoke or Kylo when Kylo left.

    6b) Luke went to Ahch-To because, deep down, he couldn't let go of the legacy even then, but also to test himself by cutting himself off from the Force while at the heart of that great balance between Light and Darkness. What few realize is that Luke didn't leave a map for others to find him. Remember in Force Awakens...

    HAN: Those who knew him said he went looking for the first Jedi Temple.

    The map was extrapolated from "those who knew him", with Lor San Tekka seeking those people and their investigation.

    7) Um, yes - that's exactly Luke's nature, to always have a part of the Dark Side (fear) within him. His bionic hand is a constant reminder of that. Just because you overcome one obstacle doesn't mean it won't return to haunt you. No one is immune - not the Jedi Order who feared the disruption of civilization, and not the guy with daddy issues who almost died for the sake of an abject lesson. He saw something that was far more powerful than he ever encountered, especially during his auspice as The Legendary Luke Skywalker: Master Jedi (TM), returned to that fear for a split moment, then recovered (even faster than he did in Return of the Jedi). He bought into his own hype, which is a path to Darkness. Rey also believed it, which makes her as much of a fangirl as all the fanboys complaining about him (and she complained as well, but managed to move on, UNLIKE OTHERS). The movie's problem was that it treated the moment like Rashomon, going over the same theme from different viewpoints, thus lending to easy confusion when the final flashback would've done the trick. What results is what I've theorized in #6a.

    Personally, I think it'd be nifty if IX pulled a "Palpatine" and had the Resistance infiltrate the First Order from the inside, corrupting it to become the New Republic again, but once again, Disneyfilm will not do that, so whevs. I loved Last Jedi, but it has problems, mostly due to JJ Abrams: Master Jedi of the Mystery Box Side of the Force (TM). Would I have written Luke this way... yyyyyyyyyyyyyNO, but it was always possible for him to fail, and for me, this was the best way to expound on that possibility, especially in the timeframe (half that of what Lucas provided himself) Disneyfilm gives its lackeys.

    PS: Have you noticed that, unlike the other trilogies, this one has titles that form a complete sentence? Which is why I'm hoping the trilogy will be named as follows:

    VII: The Force Awakens...
    VIII: The Last Jedi...
    IX: ... And She Is Angry!
  • chron
    28 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    double post
    Post edited by chron on
  • I kinda like mine
    VII: The Force Awakens
    VIII: The Last Jedi
    IX: Sometimes The Force Lets Her Sleep
  • chron wrote: »
    PS: Have you noticed that, unlike the other trilogies, this one has titles that form a complete sentence? Which is why I'm hoping the trilogy will be named as follows:

    VII: The Force Awakens...
    VIII: The Last Jedi...
    IX: ... And She Is Angry!

    Is Rey actually a Jedi? I was under the impression that the Jedi order died with Luke, just like the Sith died with Sidious and Vader. Both Rey and Kylo are neither Jedi nor Sith, nor was Snoke a Sith lord. They're both between light and dark, with Rey leaning more towards the light side and Kylo tending in the other direction. And if you look at Rey (Jedi Training) in SWGOH, you'll notice that she doesn't have the Jedi faction, just like the two Kylos lack the Sith faction.

    I really like that the title of Ep. 8 is ambiguous though, since "Jedi" is both singular and plural. Alas, the German translator messed it up by naming the movie "Die letzten Jedi" (plural) for the local release. But German-dubbed movies are an abomination anyway. Like drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa.
  • Boo wrote: »
    4. How is Rey so powerful and so quickly - advancing faster than the Chosen One (Anakin) and his son (Luke)?

    She had to fend for herself from a very young age. An attractive girl alone on a planet like Jakku? Imagine what she went through and how often she had to fight for her very life against overwhelming odds. Luke and even Anakin grew up comparatively sheltered.
  • chron wrote: »
    1) Source please?


    6a) My personal theory is that, with all that Luke (and Snoke) spoke about "balance in the Force", he felt that if he cut himself off from the Force, that in turn would negate Kylo's power as well, without realizing that Rey existed to feed that balance. In essence, by not doing anything, he was saving the galaxy from Kylo (so he thought). Also, the galaxy wasn't under the control of Snoke or Kylo when Kylo left.

    6b) Luke went to Ahch-To because, deep down, he couldn't let go of the legacy even then, but also to test himself by cutting himself off from the Force while at the heart of that great balance between Light and Darkness. What few realize is that Luke didn't leave a map for others to find him. Remember in Force Awakens...

    HAN: Those who knew him said he went looking for the first Jedi Temple.

    The map was extrapolated from "those who knew him", with Lor San Tekka seeking those people and their investigation.

    I love your #6 a & b. I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense and is a fun concept. I don't love everything about TLJ, but Rian did hold true to theme from previous movies that it's better to leave some things unsaid and let the SW community theory craft. Bravo to you.

    Also, I don't think anyone loves the portrayal of Jedi Master Luke. But I understand what they were doing and Kylo even explains it. "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." The story of the Force, the Jedi, and the struggle between light and dark is no longer bound to the Skywalker saga. We'll always have the Luke we love, and now we're going to get a whole lot more.
  • Is Rey actually a Jedi? I was under the impression that the Jedi order died with Luke, just like the Sith died with Sidious and Vader. Both Rey and Kylo are neither Jedi nor Sith, nor was Snoke a Sith lord. They're both between light and dark, with Rey leaning more towards the light side and Kylo tending in the other direction. And if you look at Rey (Jedi Training) in SWGOH, you'll notice that she doesn't have the Jedi faction, just like the two Kylos lack the Sith faction.

    I really like that the title of Ep. 8 is ambiguous though, since "Jedi" is both singular and plural. Alas, the German translator messed it up by naming the movie "Die letzten Jedi" (plural) for the local release. But German-dubbed movies are an abomination anyway. Like drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

    I wouldn't trust an app to be the end-all be-all of canon, but I don't think the film made it clear whether Rey was an "official" Jedi or at least someone with Jedi qualities about her. Maybe Luke calls her a Jedi because she's the kind of Jedi he wanted Kylo to be but couldn't train to be because he was stuck with their outmoded dogma (from his point of view, AND he tells Kylo to his face - burn!). She represents a new approach to the Light that doesn't involve the notion of legacy.

  • chron
    28 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    chron wrote: »
    1) Source please?


    6a) My personal theory is that, with all that Luke (and Snoke) spoke about "balance in the Force", he felt that if he cut himself off from the Force, that in turn would negate Kylo's power as well, without realizing that Rey existed to feed that balance. In essence, by not doing anything, he was saving the galaxy from Kylo (so he thought). Also, the galaxy wasn't under the control of Snoke or Kylo when Kylo left.

    6b) Luke went to Ahch-To because, deep down, he couldn't let go of the legacy even then, but also to test himself by cutting himself off from the Force while at the heart of that great balance between Light and Darkness. What few realize is that Luke didn't leave a map for others to find him. Remember in Force Awakens...

    HAN: Those who knew him said he went looking for the first Jedi Temple.

    The map was extrapolated from "those who knew him", with Lor San Tekka seeking those people and their investigation.

    I love your #6 a & b. I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense and is a fun concept. I don't love everything about TLJ, but Rian did hold true to theme from previous movies that it's better to leave some things unsaid and let the SW community theory craft. Bravo to you.

    Also, I don't think anyone loves the portrayal of Jedi Master Luke. But I understand what they were doing and Kylo even explains it. "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." The story of the Force, the Jedi, and the struggle between light and dark is no longer bound to the Skywalker saga. We'll always have the Luke we love, and now we're going to get a whole lot more.

    Despite what pre-Disneyfilm Legacy portrays of the New Jedi Order, there was always the possibility that Luke could fail, which is what Johnson saw fit to portray. If you didn't like Exile Luke, then you might want to steer clear of Legacy's "Dark Empire" from Dark Horse Comics, in which Luke joins the Dark Side in order to save his friends... and then the Clone Emperor tries to bond with him (which is where I got my Episode IX Snoke theory from)... and something about a Galaxy Gun... I forget, but yeah this ain't Luke's first 180 degree switch rodeo. But I am eager to see what Johnson has in store for his future trilogy, unbound from Clan Skywalker and Mother Boxes- I mean Mystery Boxes, and given ample time to explore the unknown.
  • I kinda like mine
    VII: The Force Awakens
    VIII: The Last Jedi
    IX: Sometimes The Force Lets Her Sleep

    X: But Then She Got The Jimmy Legs
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