This can't be the reason

Aka_mannah

So, as someone who didn't whale on Revan I'm trying to work out why he ALWAYS targets traya. I've asked around and the best answer I've found is this:

"If he doesn't target Traya, she isolates him and its game over."

So, every other toon in the game is subject to RNG, but Revan isn't?

He will always target traya because if he doesn't, he won't hold on defence and there fore would be useless in arena.

Say it ain't so... If it's really only for that reason I'd say that's pretty messed up. I'm glad he was introduced but the whole premise of arena battles was based on RNG, now we have one toon targeting another because her special ability is better than his, if she's gets to land it on him.

Someone's gotta be joking right?

No_Try

Noone is joking. It's called ai, it's never supposed to be -just random-. Instead it should be picking as close to a human player.

Aka_mannah

The AI has always been subject to RNG too... It's like it's hard-coded into the AI, which has never been done before. The AI doesn't always choose the right toon. This new mechanic does.
So basically people who paid for him not only paid for the toon, they paid for the privilege to not have to deal with RNG on defence.

That is a joke...

Kiritoismyname

Yeah it sounds very sketchy. Been brushed off for now, but its ****. Kinda like how opp NEVER hits tfp in ships.

Bad omens for the game if this is the way it is gonna be, going forward, imo.

Enerdrizer

It's not always RNG. For example traya isolates character with highest prot/health.
However so far I didn't find a better explanation than Revan just targets traya over other characters

Aka_mannah

The isolate on a toon can be at least manipulated by the player by changing their line up, regardless of the line up the player chooses the AI always targets traya, and like I said in the original post, the only reason looks like because her special renders Revan mute if he doesn't.

Sketchy is one word for it, I can think of a few more adjectives that fit there too

No_Try

There are many traya involved counters figured out already. This predictability also makes working them easier.

Aka_mannah

I totally agree buddy. The point is though that Revan is hard-coded to attack a single toon first, which in essence means you either lose one of your most potent characters straight away, or you're unable to use them at all. Like A previous poster said that's getting into dangerous territory moving forward for the game.

"I paid for this toon and I got the RNG removed for free"

Like I have said, it has to be a bad joke or poorly thought out.

Sacull_Kinslayer

Nooo say it ain't so...

Kyno

As stated above the AI is NOT random. It has many hard coded features based on stats and other in game factors.

They didn't remove RNG from revan, they made him to be a hard counter.

Aka_mannah

And like I said before I understand that, however you can manipulate characters and mods to work around those mechanics. In this case it's only targeting one character because it's hard-coded into his kit to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great introduction into the game, what I am saying is that this kind of hard countering/hard-coding is a joke.

It's really moving into dangerous territory with the way they program the AI to think. It's supposed to think for itself, make choice, right or wrong, not have defined directions that it takes.

gufu21

Wait. So if I brought Chewie's health/prot pool down or brought OB's up, then OB would ALWAYS catch the isolate?

jhbuchholz

gufu21 wrote: »

Wait. So if I brought Chewie's health/prot pool down or brought OB's up, then OB would ALWAYS catch the isolate?

Yes. My OB takes 100% of Trayas isolates if he's undamaged.

Aka_mannah

Yep, that's how the mechanic works, you can manipulate your team to counter isolate. The only way you can manipulate your traya team to counter Revan tageting her is by removing her...

Aka_mannah

You can also run her under maul and have a non sith there to take the first hit too, but that's really not the point I'm trying to make.

The point is that regardless of how you set your team up and mod them, unless you hide her he will always target her, which is in essence only targeting her and being totally anti traya.

Both are great characters but having him only targeting her at all times available is a joke

Kyno

Aka_mannah wrote: »

And like I said before I understand that, however you can manipulate characters and mods to work around those mechanics. In this case it's only targeting one character because it's hard-coded into his kit to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great introduction into the game, what I am saying is that this kind of hard countering/hard-coding is a joke.

It's really moving into dangerous territory with the way they program the AI to think. It's supposed to think for itself, make choice, right or wrong, not have defined directions that it takes.

Manipulation of your team to have the AI target a toon still based on a stat, doesnt change what the AI is hard coded to do. In this case it is coded to target either Treya or some other particular thing. Either way the AI doesnt do everything randomly there has always been hard coded things it works from as a base.

The AI does make choices, question is treya there...answer attack treya. < that is a decision based on a situation.

It is also this single minded AI decision making that allows us to out smart it and win.

LordBane452501

Have you tried playing with health/protection? Or with traya and nest both around (as toons getting bonus protection)?

Kyno

Aka_mannah wrote: »

Yep, that's how the mechanic works, you can manipulate your team to counter isolate. The only way you can manipulate your traya team to counter Revan tageting her is by removing her...

Or you can put her in a team that will win, knowing that you dont need a tank because she will pull the first attacks.

There is many reasons there are pawns on a chess board.

No_Try

I agree it's not ideal, but it's what it is and that's the main reason for the price tag. Imagine they made him even more op so he beats traya despite isolation...but also beats every other team along the way too. That would escalate power creep even more.

Aka_mannah

Kyno wrote: »

Aka_mannah wrote: »

And like I said before I understand that, however you can manipulate characters and mods to work around those mechanics. In this case it's only targeting one character because it's hard-coded into his kit to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great introduction into the game, what I am saying is that this kind of hard countering/hard-coding is a joke.

It's really moving into dangerous territory with the way they program the AI to think. It's supposed to think for itself, make choice, right or wrong, not have defined directions that it takes.

Manipulation of your team to have the AI target a toon still based on a stat, doesnt change what the AI is hard coded to do. In this case it is coded to target either Treya or some other particular thing. Either way the AI doesnt do everything randomly there has always been hard coded things it works from as a base.

The AI does make choices, question is treya there...answer attack treya. < that is a decision based on a situation.

It is also this single minded AI decision making that allows us to out smart it and win.

So what you're saying is that it's always programmed to make a right choice, even though for other characters it makes the wrong choice at times...

Aka_mannah

You look at the GC content in the past, look how stupidly it acts at times with targeting, it doesn't always make the right choice. This comes beyond a power creep and into an intelligence creep...

Jeric

Good AI design should never involve randomness, and should always take into account the opposition stats and comps. With some AI actions it is dependent on the parameter passed during a condition check. In some the parameter is a stat, in this case it’s a character. This is actually how a good static AI is designed if it is supposed to be challenging.

Revan always targeting Traya if available is actually legitimately better AI design than random targeting. This is how a human would play that team intelligently and that should be the goal for game developer AI.

Jeric

And if by joke you mean brilliant, correct.

Ztyle

The AI has always been predictable and easy to manipulate, as it follows a specific coded pattern, Revans is just easy to spot, but it's nothing new, as it has been like that always, just not as easy to spot

Freydwen

In fleets my Tie Advanced will get focus-fired 100% of the time if there are no taunts up. I'm not sure how this is any different.

Aka_mannah

Jeric wrote: »

Good AI design should never involve randomness, and should always take into account the opposition stats and comps. With some AI actions it is dependent on the parameter passed during a condition check. In some the parameter is a stat, in this case it’s a character. This is actually how a good static AI is designed if it is supposed to be challenging.

Revan always targeting Traya if available is actually legitimately better AI design than random targeting. This is how a human would play that team intelligently and that should be the goal for game developer AI.

So what you're saying is right, I'm not going dispute that fact. AI should always think like a human as best as possible. However we just had another legendary character released a few weeks before Revan, who would also benefit from that logic. Chewy. If ran with Zolo the biggest threat from the other team is always traya, yet it's always random who they both attack first.

So, maybe there needs to be an AI stat introduced into the game so we can all farm "smart" characters to put on defence...

It's a joke buddy, I'm glad you're enjoying your Revan :-)

Enerdrizer

But if Revan always targets Traya, is he A.INTELLIGENCE or MACHINE?

No_Try

Enerdrizer wrote: »

But if Revan always targets Traya, is he A.INTELLIGENCE or MACHINE?

Revan's ai will take on the world.

Aka_mannah

No_Try wrote: »

Enerdrizer wrote: »

But if Revan always targets Traya, is he A.INTELLIGENCE or MACHINE?

Revan's ai will take on the world.

And solve world hunger too?

No_Try

Aka_mannah wrote: »

No_Try wrote: »

Enerdrizer wrote: »

But if Revan always targets Traya, is he A.INTELLIGENCE or MACHINE?

Revan's ai will take on the world.

And solve world hunger too?

Sure! After targeting Traya though.

No_Try