Guides without Phoenix...?

Shadowscream
968 posts Member
edited October 2018
Obviously not optimal....but are there any guides like Warriors Pillars for people who don’t want to do Phoenix?

It’s a fairly frequent request on the beginners forum and I try and answer it but am way way too longwinded. Plus, all of us simply saying you MUST do Phoenix might well just put them off playing all together.
I would think with the current state of the game it’s entirely possible to be semi-competitive without Phoenix (and Thrawn).
e.g.
1) Lightside Jedi team aiming at GMY (maybe suggest a compromise by farming Ezra)
2) Darkside - First Order aiming at BB8
3) BHs and STH aiming at Credit Heist

4) Rest of CLS requirements - aiming at CLS
5) Imperial Troopers aiming at R2D2
6) Complete Bounty Hunters.

Not sure how Fleet would fit into this - maybe an early Geo side-project? Unlikely any other beginners would be farming them...

Replies

  • Is Phoenix required to open up some high-end LS or DS nodes? If so there is bound to be something locked up behind those nodes that will be needed.
  • papy72 wrote: »
    Is Phoenix required to open up some high-end LS or DS nodes? If so there is bound to be something locked up behind those nodes that will be needed.

    No. The only thing you NEED Phoenix for is - Thrawn, Chimera, some LSTB special missions, Thrawn Mythic.

    They work great for Emperor Palpatine too, but aren't necessary.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • I didn't farm Phoenix until after I had Palpatine, R2, Yoda, and BB8. Didn't feel like I was overly hurt by doing so.
  • There's a really good reason why most beginner's guide point you in the direction of Phoenix.

    A really good reason.

    He's blue, ultra-ruthless and one of the top 10, if not top 5, characters in the game.



    I avoided them for ages...didn't know who they were and didn't like the look of them. But once I started using them- I realised what a great team they are to use. They require some strategy and thought unlike a lot of other teams. Also...they are incredibly useful.
  • They are versatile, very nice using in GW, can be used for Palpatine, are needed for Thrawn, can complete most of the LS hard nodes, useful in TB, the ships are not horrible...

    Remind me again why would you want to not farm them?
  • There's a really good reason why most beginner's guide point you in the direction of Phoenix.

    A really good reason.

    He's blue, ultra-ruthless and one of the top 10, if not top 5, characters in the game.
    There are multiple reasons, not least of whichnis that they crush most other newbie teams with ease, which is why they are the newbie meta.
    Truppel wrote: »
    They are versatile, very nice using in GW, can be used for Palpatine, are needed for Thrawn, can complete most of the LS hard nodes, useful in TB, the ships are not horrible...

    Remind me again why would you want to not farm them?
    Not everyone wants to be a meta-sheep.
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Not everyone wants to be a meta-sheep.
    Meta-sheep, huh?

    Phoenix aren't anywhere near meta. Thrawn is ubiquitous, but no-one calls it the "thrawn meta".

    Everyone is welcome to play how they want. But ignoring Phoenix not only denies you a really useful team, but one of the most useful toons in the game.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • The hardest thing against going another route besides Phoenix is how easy they are to farm. Cantina battles for Ezra and Hera gets you cantina currency which gets you Chopper. They do great in GW which makes it easy to get Zeb and you use your arena currency to get Kanan. Nobody else that easy to farm.
  • I think the next best non-Penix alternative would be First Order. Plenty of DS Pilots and ships which will help you start earning Zetas earlier and thus also improve Squad Arena Rank. This also unlocks BB8 which is fantastic for raids. They’re also a decent defense team for TW.
    After Ships 2.0 was introduced, Chimera isn’t as good as before. You could probably make do with Executrix.
  • As stated above Phoenix are useful for special missions in light side TB. Ezra is exceptionally good in Jedi teams for Arena and Sith Raid. Sabine's armor shred is also useful for raid damage. They are not the best arena team as a group but they are a solid way to start.

    The Phoenix Ships also are used for the Cargo Heist that comes around monthly now? Do Boba Fet for your scoundrel team (and BHs for Chewy event) and get slave 1 and bingo you can do the easier Cargo Heists with 3 ships. After that work on Falcons and/or Hound Tooth to do the toughest Cargo Heist.

    Thrawn is possibly the most useful character in the game: His Capitol ship needed in dark side TB, Great in all raids, slots into many arena teams, really he's too good to avoid.

    If you really want to avoid them, the only reason to do that would be to focus on getting one of the other top 5 characters, like Chewy, Revan, CLS and JTR sooner.
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Not everyone wants to be a meta-sheep.
    Meta-sheep, huh?
    Yup, trailing along mindlessly with the rest of the flock.
    Phoenix aren't anywhere near meta. Thrawn is ubiquitous, but no-one calls it the "thrawn meta".
    Phoenix are indeed the newbie meta which is what I said. Name one other newbie team which is even close to their accessibility, power, ease of use and ubiquity.
    Everyone is welcome to play how they want. But ignoring Phoenix not only denies you a really useful team, but one of the most useful toons in the game.
    I never said they weren't useful, quite the contrary. The question posed was why anyone would want to go a different route.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Warriors Pillars for people who don’t want to do Phoenix? How about simply following his guide, but skipping Phoenix? You can use the rebels used to unlock CLS to unlock EP as well. You obviously won't have access to Thrawn, Chimaera, some combats/special missions in TB, but if you want to skip Phoenix, you want to skip Phoenix. Your choice. Do whatever is more fun for you.

    Regarding your suggestions:
    R2D2 (point 5) is a requirement for CLS (point 4). You will need to reorder those pillars.
  • Jarvind
    3920 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    If you were going to skip Phoenix I'd think you would want to go for a Rebel team, get Palpatine (fairly easy with any decent Rebels), and then build an Empire team. For a starting Rebel squad you could roll with Ackbar lead, Biggs/Wedge, and maybe OG Leia and Stormtrooper Han and do pretty well.

    You'll be missing Thrawn, obviously, but it's not like Empire is lacking options. I haven't built up my Imperial Trooper squad yet, so I still use Snowtrooper on my Empire squad. It's unconventional, but it works fine for what I use it for, which is mostly the Ewok assault battle and killing Phoenix squads in territory wars.
    u58t4vkrvnrz.png



  • DOI - I went the Phoenix route, and have directed all new players to do likewise. For all the reasons stated above.

    However, if their reply is “I get what you are saying, but I never watched Rebels and Star Wars to me is Luke, Leia and Jedi knights and that’s what I want to do....I don’t care if it’s not the BEST option”. Then I don’t think it’s right to not tailor “non-Phoenix advice” with an attached warning :)

    Example - a new guildmate who’s got a reasonable Jedi squad but no Phoenix and doesn’t want them. I’ve tried to instead direct him to build up his Scoundrels (BHs mainly) for the Credit Heist, Galactic Bounties, Rebel Roundup and eventually Chewie. I’ve also got him working on his FOrder Squad.

    There is no alternative guide on this forum or elsewhere....
  • Rath_Tarr
    4944 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Jarvind wrote: »
    If you were going to skip Phoenix I'd think you would want to go for a Rebel team, get Palpatine (fairly easy with any decent Rebels), and then build an Empire team. For a starting Rebel squad you could roll with Ackbar lead, Biggs/Wedge, and maybe OG Leia and Stormtrooper Han and do pretty well.
    Indeed.

    * Biggs is an easy farm, great DPS especially with Wedge and good in fleer. (regular, cantina & GW store and later fleet but should be moot by that point)
    * Wedge is a slower farm but well worth the effort if you have Biggs (cantina)
    * Jedi Consular can heal until you are ready for Wedge lead and later help out in fleet battles (regular & cantina)
    * Clone Wars Chewie is another easy farm and can serve as a tank for a while (regular & cantina)
    * And since Chewie can tank, I would farm Leia before STHan as she is crit factory who works well with Wiggs (arena store)
    * Or you could go STHan first, drop Chewie and keep Farmboy in the lineup

    Farmboy Luke will be active early on which is fine as he'll be needed later for Jedi Luke.
  • Just look up any old guides. The ones that contain Phoenix are less than a year old anyway. The big guys were close to a year too late even acknowledging them.
  • SCOED
    51 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    The problem with any newbie guide not advising early focus on the phoenix squad is it is honestly bad advise. It unlocks so much content. And honestly they always have a use. Anyone that doesn't have all the phoenix members unlocked is hurting their guild as Phoenix is required in TB. They are slowing there own progress and development and basically making the game harder than it needs to be. So no I can't in good faith advise anyone in a way to develop their game minus the phoenix squad. Any such advice would be like advising going after CUP early in the game (or ever). If they followed such advice it will cripple them long term.

    My biggest regret is not going after Phoenix first thing. I only waited three months but even that small delay hurt.It is a team you will never not have need of. They unlock Thrawn (one of if not the best toon im the game), Palpatine (another great toon), and Chimaera. They give you 2/5 of the toons to get you GMY. The toons they unlock gets you 2/5 to R2. As I said they are required in TB as is Chimaera which requires them to be unlocked. There ships aren't bad. And they are viable in stage 2 of the heroic Sith raid. Any advice that doesn't tell newbies work on them early is just bad. Why offer bad advice?

    If they don't want to work on them that is fine, as that is there choice. But any advice other than to work on them early is simply irresponsible. Don't do it.
    Post edited by SCOED on
  • Jarvind
    3920 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    SCOED wrote: »
    The problem with any newbie guide not advising early focus on the phoenix squad is honestly bad advise. It unlocks so much content.

    I do kinda have to agree with this. I came back recently from a break that started right when mods were first introduced, so I wasn't far off being a newbie. I hated everything about Phoenix, but every suggestion said to do it, so I bit the bullet. I'm fairly sure I would still be kicking myself for not doing it if I'd missed Thrawn. My Chimaera is still only 5*, but he does more than enough work on the ground to have been worth it.

    My Phoenix guys are still only at gear 8/9 because I still don't much like playing with them, but even that is useful for knocking off a back-row battle in territory wars now and then. Plus Ezra, and to a lesser degree Kanan, can pull double duty on a Jedi squad.
    u58t4vkrvnrz.png



  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Not everyone wants to be a meta-sheep.
    Meta-sheep, huh?
    Yup, trailing along mindlessly with the rest of the flock.
    Doesn't know what's next, doesn't even seem to know why he farmed Phoenix and wants spoon feeding. Meta-sheep -> https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/185711/life-after-phoenix#latest
  • SCOED wrote: »
    The problem with any newbie guide not advising early focus on the phoenix squad is honestly bad advise.

    Excellently put. And it's correct.

  • ichotolot
    229 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Why not Phoenix? They have nearly everything, heal regen(Chopper), protection regen( Zeb), Cleanse( Kannan),high damage and protection up (Ezra). And turn meter boost and revive by Hera. Hard to find a better team for Galactic War that is as easy to obtain.
  • I'll preface this by saying I went Phoenix, Scoundrels, Empire, CLS toons, FO, JTR toons/bounty hunters (also prioritizing my squad and fleet arena toons along the way) and I'm glad I did but I can also understand why people wouldn't want to build Phoenix and my feel no love for the characters. At the end of the day this is a game and it's there for people to enjoy however they want.

    I honestly think if you really don't want to go down the Phoenix route; Scoundrels is probably the best place to start. Something like this:

    Cantina energy - Lando (can be used for Palp)
    Cantina tokens - Boba (slave 1, TB and chewie)
    Squad arena tokens - STHan (CLS and Palp)
    GW tokens - Cad Bane (Xandu Blood, TB and Chewie)
    Guild Tokens - Dengar (TB and Chewie)

    It's a squad with little to no synergy but all have some use else where. It'll give you a couple of solid pilots and open up the Credit heists/droid smuggling super early.

    From there I'd look at fleshing out a Rebel squad to unlock palp and LS hard nodes. Something like this:
    Cantina energy - Old Ben (Palp and CLS)
    Squad arena tokens - Leia (Palp and CLS)
    GW tokens - Biggs (ships and Palp)

    That gives you an OK Rebel team, another solid pilot and gets the bulk of the work on your CLS toons out the way nice and early. Then on to Empire toons with multi uses:

    Legendary Event - Palp (R2)
    Squad arena tokens - Tarkin (Executrix and R2)
    Cantina Energy - TFP (ships and R2)
    Fleet store - Vader TIE Advanced, TB and R2)
    and a plus one. I'd suggest Storm Trooper from the Cantina tokens store simply because it's an easy farm but Snowtrooper is probably more useful in the long term.

    This should get you R2 and with a bit of work on Farmboy your'e good for CLS. By this point you're also set up with some strong pilots and you've also got hard node farms going on in the background the whole time. You can probably build a decent team with CLS and/or Bounty Hunters by this point and start to climb in arena if you decide you want to. Sure Lando and Stormtrooper aren't great long term investments but Storm can at least be used for TB special missions and Lando is an easy farm in early game.
  • A decent alternative early team with good synergy is Solo. Qi'ra lead can be used with a lot, and vando/yolo/l3 are all useful later on and not bad farms either.
    FO is a great team but not as easy beginners farm. Og kylo and KRU and FOX are all cantina farms, so you gotta choose or stagger them, FOST is hard node but I'd argue not as good of a farm as many others, Phasma being gw is easy to get but useless later on, and FOO is cantina store, but the same argument against Phoenix can be about FO.

    I actually didn't start my phoenix til I was like level 60 (and was watching rebels), instead my first few 7* characters were Biggs, Lando, AA, Boba, Tarkin, Wedge... By time I got phoenix I was running ep, Vader, Tarkin, wiggs, replaced wiggs with thrawn, dn, and haven't looked back . but that comp definitely set me behind compared to Phoenix (ep was able to school them, but otherwise I hated facing them)
  • LordGrahck
    344 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    If you're absolutely determined to not go Phoenix, then your best bet LS wise is a Jedi team with bastila lead. You can get a solid Jedi starter team with Old Ben, Qui Gon, Mace Windu, Jedi Consular, and Luminara, and use them to unlock GMY, and work on Bastila when able. Old Ben is a fairly easy farm in the Cantina, and Qui Gon is in the Cantina store. Mace Windu is in the Arena store, plus he's a free unlock at 4 stars. So, might as well put him to some use. Just get him to gear 8 and 7 star, and then toss him aside when you get GMY. You can get Jedi Consular shards all over the place, and you get him at 3 star fairly early, which makes him easy to level up. Like Windu, get him to 7 star and gear 8 for GMY, and toss him aside for Bastila. Luminara is in the Galactic March store. These are just the easiest I've found to farm, the team is versatile in that you can switch out one Jedi character for another Jedi fairly easy, and It's competitive in the Arena. Not only that, but Old Ben and Qui Gon are solid characters. Old Ben is one of the better FTP tanks in the game, IMHO.

    oh, and FYI, if you're wondering how well this works, it does quite well. I didn't unlock Phoenix until I was already over level 80, and by then I had a bastila lead Jedi team. Before her, I was using a Jedi team with Old Ben as the lead. The only member of Phoenix I unlocked and got to star 7 was Ezra. The team I used to unlock GMY with was Old Ben, Mace WIndu, Ezra, Qui Gon, and Luminara, which was my staple team until I unlocked GMY and got Bastila. I switched Mace Windu and Luminara out for them, and got to work on my bounty hunters. The only reason why I'm working on Phoenix now is so I can get Thrawn.
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