In Defense of Rian Johnson

Replies

  • I didn’t say it deserves your love. I said I’m not going to tell you to love or even like it. You don’t have to for I care. That your opinion. But I’m confused as to why people hate the PERSON behind the movie. We are all humans, and we were all created equal. As for the more dissent, I’ll be happy to hear it. But please let it be known I’m not defending TLJ, just Rian Johnson

    but for me, the most diehard Star Wars fans are the ones who cannot simply hate it because of the plot or characters. It is Star Wars. It is good no matter what.
    This

    I also said right before that, that I’m not asking you to like or love the movie. I even said it was my least favorite. I simply ask why people choose to hate him

    But when you add the last bit, you kinda negate what you previously stated. I don’t choose to hate him, I’d like to see him as far from a SW directors chair as humanly possible. I think his story sucks. I hate his work not him. You must realize these two aren’t related.
  • There is no defence. He ruined star wars for his own ego and a big pay cheque.

    I have been waiting for a comment like this. He merely has different views and opinions on Star Wars than we do. For instance, I doubt any of us on these forums completely agree about Star Wars. You can't hate him for having his own opinions

    I’m confused about this too. What are the “opinions on Star Wars” you’re referring to? I’ve mostly steered clear of the fandom-backlash to TLJ, but I assume you’re referring mostly to the controversy over the film’s treatment of Luke? I’m just speaking for myself, obviously, but I actually thought Luke’s emotional journey and sacrifice were handled well.

    My criticism of Johnson has nothing to do with it failing any of my Star Wars-specific expectations. My problem is that it spent way too much time on Finn and Rose’s circuitous, boring, and ultimately pointless fetch quest. There just wasn’t enough story there to justify all the time spent on those two characters, and as the writer/director, that criticism has to be borne by Johnson.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • There is no defence. He ruined star wars for his own ego and a big pay cheque.

    I have been waiting for a comment like this. He merely has different views and opinions on Star Wars than we do. For instance, I doubt any of us on these forums completely agree about Star Wars. You can't hate him for having his own opinions

    saying he ruined star wars is not that hateful. It's just an opinion.
  • I'm out of this guys, tempers run to easy on this topic. Honestly, EA/CG should ban them in any shape or form.
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • I’m sorry if I caused arguments to arise. I simply wanted to know why people hated him. He’s a fellow human being. Love thy neighbor
  • I’m sorry if I caused arguments to arise. I simply wanted to know why people hated him. He’s a fellow human being. Love thy neighbor

    Again @GreedoShot2nd how are you defining hate?
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • Boov
    604 posts Member
    I’m sorry if I caused arguments to arise. I simply wanted to know why people hated him. He’s a fellow human being. Love thy neighbor

    turns out no one actually hates the guy, so i'd call it a succes ;)
  • Boov wrote: »
    I’m sorry if I caused arguments to arise. I simply wanted to know why people hated him. He’s a fellow human being. Love thy neighbor

    turns out no one actually hates the guy, so i'd call it a succes ;)

    Yeah, I guess. It makes me feel a little better. I don't care if you hate the movie, that's your choice and decision (again it's my least favorite). I just was confused as to why you would hate a HUMAN.
  • Boov wrote: »
    I’m sorry if I caused arguments to arise. I simply wanted to know why people hated him. He’s a fellow human being. Love thy neighbor

    turns out no one actually hates the guy, so i'd call it a succes ;)

    Yeah, I guess. It makes me feel a little better. I don't care if you hate the movie, that's your choice and decision (again it's my least favorite). I just was confused as to why you would hate a HUMAN.

    How are you defining hate @GreedoShot2nd
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • CaptainRex wrote: »
    Boov wrote: »
    I’m sorry if I caused arguments to arise. I simply wanted to know why people hated him. He’s a fellow human being. Love thy neighbor

    turns out no one actually hates the guy, so i'd call it a succes ;)

    Yeah, I guess. It makes me feel a little better. I don't care if you hate the movie, that's your choice and decision (again it's my least favorite). I just was confused as to why you would hate a HUMAN.

    How are you defining hate @GreedoShot2nd

    I'm going to keep asking, because the definition of hate is incredibly important here. If you're insinuating that criticism of a person's work (ie, I call Last Jedi a flaming hot piece of garbage) equals hatred of the person themselves, this is dangerous territory (leading to speech is violence).
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • I've learned long ago to take the good with the bad when it comes to Star Wars. Back in the day, we were shaking our heads about RotJ. Death Star all over again, cutesy teddy bears defeat AT-STs with lots of slapstick, shameless pandering to children for the sake of toy sales. Then out came the Phantom Menace and oh boy, did we hate that instead :p RotJ was a classic masterpiece all of a sudden. Personally, I still don't like it all that much, but I've made my peace with it. I've also come to terms with the prequels after watching the anti-cheese edit, and I adore the Clone Wars offshoot series.

    To me, Disney's Star Wars is the same mixed bag that the franchise has always been. I rather liked TFA, absolutely loved Rogue One (watched it 5 times so far), quite enjoyed Solo, and found the animated SW Rebels show entertaining enough. Four out of five isn't that bad in my book, and even TLJ had its moments. Such as the last 30 minutes, or Rey's and Kylo's team-up against Snoke's praetorian guard. Why not take the good with the medicore or plain awful and be glad that we're getting new movies and TV shows at all. There was a time when the original trilogy was all we thought we'd ever get to see on the big screen.
  • I’ll never understand people getting so worked up over entertainment products. If you loved it then great. If not, then who cares. Forget about it and go back to what you do love. It’s like some people have this need to have everybody else share in their dislike of a movie or whatever it is and comvince the world their opinion is right.
  • I’ll never understand people getting so worked up over entertainment products. If you loved it then great. If not, then who cares. Forget about it and go back to what you do love. It’s like some people have this need to have everybody else share in their dislike of a movie or whatever it is and comvince the world their opinion is right.

    This
  • EA_Cian
    971 posts EA Staff (retired)
    I'm out of this guys, tempers run to easy on this topic. Honestly, EA/CG should ban them in any shape or form.

    Speaking to this. I am going to step in and remind us to be very mindful of what we're posting here. Right now we're doing a-okay but while I understand there's some division among The Last Jedi, I would ask us to remain respectful in our conversations. Not just towards one and other but, about the people we're discussing. You may not feel Rian Johnson respected your vision for Star Wars, but personal attacks about him or others involved still aren't okay, they've historically started poorly and gone worse and while again, we're doing a good job here so far, I don't want to see the conversation head that direction.

    If we can keep this discussion respectful and mature I'm happy to leave it open. :smile:
  • EA_Cian wrote: »
    I'm out of this guys, tempers run to easy on this topic. Honestly, EA/CG should ban them in any shape or form.

    Speaking to this. I am going to step in and remind us to be very mindful of what we're posting here. Right now we're doing a-okay but while I understand there's some division among The Last Jedi, I would ask us to remain respectful in our conversations. Not just towards one and other but, about the people we're discussing. You may not feel Rian Johnson respected your vision for Star Wars, but personal attacks about him or others involved still aren't okay, they've historically started poorly and gone worse and while again, we're doing a good job here so far, I don't want to see the conversation head that direction.

    If we can keep this discussion respectful and mature I'm happy to leave it open. :smile:

    Right. Yes sir
  • I love that it's 10 months after the movie came out and some of you can't understand what people mean by toxic fans while you write seventeen paragraphs about how only you really understand Star Wars, and if somebody does something different they are OBJECTIVELY WRONG. Then you disregard the very real hate and vitriol that has been thrown at the cast and crew of these movies because you think the term man-baby is the most offensive thing someone can say
  • I love that it's 10 months after the movie came out and some of you can't understand what people mean by toxic fans while you write seventeen paragraphs about how only you really understand Star Wars, and if somebody does something different they are OBJECTIVELY WRONG. Then you disregard the very real hate and vitriol that has been thrown at the cast and crew of these movies because you think the term man-baby is the most offensive thing someone can say

    I feel like you were trying to shut up both sides.
  • BigLib
    42 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    I think we can all agree that hate is a strong word and an emotion you can’t possibly feel towards a human being you have not met, who hasn’t directly affected your life.

    You can dislike his work. You can’t hate him. He was hired for a job, did it, tried to leave his mark, evidently failed. Let’s hope the next is better and somehow makes the other two movies fall into place.
  • I love that it's 10 months after the movie came out and some of you can't understand what people mean by toxic fans while you write seventeen paragraphs about how only you really understand Star Wars, and if somebody does something different they are OBJECTIVELY WRONG. Then you disregard the very real hate and vitriol that has been thrown at the cast and crew of these movies because you think the term man-baby is the most offensive thing someone can say

    I feel like you were trying to shut up both sides.

    Read that again. I think you missed my point by a mile.
  • BigLib wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that hate is a strong word and an emotion you can’t possibly feel towards a human being you have not met, who hasn’t directly affected your life.

    You can dislike his work. You can’t hate him. He was hired for a job, did it, tried to leave his mark, evidently failed. Let’s hope the next is better and somehow makes the other two movies fall into place.

    Completely agree
  • BigLib wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that hate is a strong word and an emotion you can’t possibly feel towards a human being you have not met, who hasn’t directly affected your life.

    You can dislike his work. You can’t hate him. He was hired for a job, did it, tried to leave his mark, evidently failed. Let’s hope the next is better and somehow makes the other two movies fall into place.

    I don't think anyone actually hates him. This entire thread is a strawman.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • its just sad as to how portions of the built up expanded universe is somehow slowly fading away. i am but a lone consumer bummed out; still hoping for some good from the beloved star wars franchise.
  • I like The Last Jedi. Lots of flaws and mistakes, some poor choices, so as a movie it is not so good. As a STAR WARS movie, it is really really good, one of the best yet, but not THE best. I rank them thusly: 5, 6, RO, 8, 7, 4, Solo, 3, 2, 1
  • its just sad as to how portions of the built up expanded universe is somehow slowly fading away. i am but a lone consumer bummed out; still hoping for some good from the beloved star wars franchise.

    Rogue One was good, Solo was ok. The main 2 sequels are dumpster fires.
  • Chucko_marek
    2816 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    As to hating someone we’ve never met, I’m sure we can all agree we hate Adolph Hitl er. But calling someone’s movie horrible doesn’t equal hating them.
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    He's a fellow human being. Do you wish to actually hate him? So you disagree with what he did with a MOVIE (which, by the way, is made for entertainment). Please don't judge me, I'm a diehard Star Wars fan (I've said multiple times that the movies are documentaries), but I realize that I and Rian Johnson just have different views on the Galaxy that we all love. Do you really think you accomplish anything by hating and threatening his life? Why not encourage him to do better next time. I'm not saying you should love the movie, or even like it. It's my least favorite movie, but for me, the most diehard Star Wars fans are the ones who cannot simply hate it because of the plot or characters. It is Star Wars. It is good no matter what.

    Who threatened his life?

    On another note - there is plenty of reason to hate him.

    His ideal movie was splitting his audience into those that liked and those that hated 50/50 - he certainly did that with TLJ.

    Quite simply a man like that (with poor and little director experience to boot) should never have been let anywhere near a star wars movie - a franchise recently acquired by Disney for $4B+ - it was a disaster.

    He further comments to his own detriment that he is a lazy writer - which is again clearly evidenced in TLJ.

    He also stated that he did his best to ignore what fans were expecting and wanting - he wanted to make HIS star wars movie. People claim that is the fan boys being selfish because they did not get what they wanted - but is this not selfish on his part too? and even more so as the fans are many, he is but 1 person.

    He then attacks the fans who hated the movie (which was his intention to have at least 50% of the audience hate it) with horrible names including racists, sexist etc etc.

    He then attacks Mike Zeroh like a school yard bully on social media. Not that I like Zeroh's content, but some do. To be fair Zeroh posts a video every day and his only content is star wars related, so his content is bound to be (shall we say) silly. But no need for the attacks Rian did on Twitter.

    He then boldly claims his trilogy is going ahead - Iger certainly did not claim that when Star Wars furture productions were slowing down.

    This man is the biggest troll on the internet and has almost single-handedly destroyed the star wars franchise - should we hate him? we certainly have every right to do so, but death threats are taking things too far.
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    There is no defence. He ruined star wars for his own ego and a big pay cheque.

    I have been waiting for a comment like this. He merely has different views and opinions on Star Wars than we do. For instance, I doubt any of us on these forums completely agree about Star Wars. You can't hate him for having his own opinions

    Different opinions is one thing, but when you take all setups from previous movies and toss them out, as well as break the lore of the galaxy for his own twisted amusement with no explanation and lazy writing, nonsensical plot lines etc etc etc - I could go on and on - that is not a different opinion, that is down right sabotage.

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