Would higher counter damage increase variety?

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MenaceTEC
670 posts Member
edited March 2016
There is quite a few counter characters. What's the point if no one uses them anyway?

The OP was a rough idea. Let me explain it more clearly.

Everyone complains the meta is only speed. Same for assisted attacks etc Dps reigns.

So, tanks should have some kind or counter attack. We can all agree Chewie is useless in PVP?

This counter attack should inflict significant damage. This only effects glass cannons. Other tanks or attackers with reasonable HP who attack and get countered won't feel the effect as much.

If FOTP, GS or Rey can inflict a crippling hit they would at least take some damage for the effort.

Like a previous person commented. It's like adding a second dimension to fighting. Instead of one standing there and taking it from the other they engage eachother and each inflict damage based on attack and defense.

Perhaps the useless defense stat could apply to all tanks and translate to a counter chance and damage.

Edited for clarity of the idea.

Would higher counter damage increase variety? 66 votes

Yes
7%
JohnnyMakeBelieveAkavirSupremeLeaderSnokeCoolhand_LukeGonzalo1495 5 votes
No
65%
Hyperalloycosmicturtle333bleeaauuhFantazyKhorvog_Karbossajeremyj26Sticare_Courts_0073JoshuMeetraSurikMako482CaptSeaWalkerFAED_EmperorbenacrowPlague_IncKAULIrosigodHighlandmonkey_01Willkimm98Al_TizBig_Russ 43 votes
Maybe
15%
JJHAegisSaigeBoxandthefuzzBubblechompSnakeJonWonKenobiBig_BossCollinFSpart4n_Angelboeez 10 votes
Don't Care
12%
AbyssDarthNicoEllo_AstyHorse_Cosbydarth_mol_elizaPhippsArubeSikho 8 votes
Post edited by MenaceTEC on

Replies

  • Abyss
    1651 posts Member
    Don't Care
    Counter damage has nothing to do with variety. I dont follow the logic at all??????
  • MenaceTEC
    670 posts Member
    edited March 2016
    Abyss wrote: »
    Counter damage has nothing to do with variety. I dont follow the logic at all??????

    If you have high hp tanks that don't do huge regular damage but inflict high counter damage it would leave glass cannons at say 30-50% health.

    That would change a lot about how matches would go and it would be a easy change.
  • Abyss
    1651 posts Member
    Don't Care
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Abyss wrote: »
    Counter damage has nothing to do with variety. I dont follow the logic at all??????

    If you have high hp tanks that don't do huge regular damage but inflict high counter damage it would leave glass cannons at say 30-50% health.

    That would change a lot about how matches would go and it would be a easy change.

    Wait lol, so you mean all toons can counter in your model?????? Lmfao pass, thats a broken game rite there. You want durable toons to do massive counter damage? Wow, i applaude the effort and brainstorming but that in no way wouod be good for the gane sorry.
  • No just the ones that do now, sure they would be more valuable. But no other changes just up the damage.

    If two or three of your toons counter and the others are speed at least there is some variety to teams.

    Kylo, 55, Dooku, FOST, and others. Dooku doesn't fit with the idea really.
  • MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Abyss wrote: »
    Counter damage has nothing to do with variety. I dont follow the logic at all??????

    If you have high hp tanks that don't do huge regular damage but inflict high counter damage it would leave glass cannons at say 30-50% health.

    That would change a lot about how matches would go and it would be a easy change.
    People will still kill DPS first, and healers. They need to focus on balancing the abilities, evasion, dodge, DoT, they don't all work right imo.

    Synergies aren't really being utilized yet, they need to give every faction more options, I say dump a lot of toons in the game at once and let people discover some things.
  • So the idea more clearly stated is like this.


    Slow tanks characters are not used as much due to a speed meta. The mentioned toons don't quite get it right. They need taunt as well as counter to deal with the speed dps meta. However any countering toon would be an option if they were hitting low hp glass cannons for a higher damage.

    Even then not a guaranteed counter. It would allow you to fight dps with something other than dps.
  • Abyss
    1651 posts Member
    Don't Care
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    So the idea more clearly stated is like this.


    Slow tanks characters are not used as much due to a speed meta. The mentioned toons don't quite get it right. They need taunt as well as counter to deal with the speed dps meta. However any countering toon would be an option if they were hitting low hp glass cannons for a higher damage.

    Even then not a guaranteed counter. It would allow you to fight dps with something other than dps.

    Again you mention slow taunting tanks and high counter damage? There is not a single slow taunting tank in the game i can think of that can counter so i say again, you want durable toons that can counter for massive damage???? No thanks, thats a broken game
  • Abyss
    1651 posts Member
    edited March 2016
    Don't Care
    If you really mean to say that dooku is not durable enough OR does not spit enough damage (one of the 2 needs a buff) i could agree to a certain point. But if you want taunting tanks to be able to counter AND spit massive damage thats just crazy lol
  • I don't know all the characters but let's say a tank with taunt and some counter chance. Let's not consider Dooku in this example.

    Maybe all tanks need taunt? Perhaps unlocked at lvl 70? Add it to empty skill slots?

    Anyway, if say QGJ assists with whoever let's say Sid. And the target in our example lets say he procs both counters.

    In the current model he may do 2-4K maybe? That's likely high for current counter toons.

    If his counter did say double damage it would make a difference in character choices. Damage vs HP.

    Maybe offense up effect on successful counter procs? Similar to Dooku leader ability?
  • Abyss wrote: »
    If you really mean to say that dooku is not durable enough OR does not spit enough damage (one of the 2 needs a buff) i could agree to a certain point. But if you want taunting tanks to be able to counter AND spit massive damage thats just crazy lol

    K whatever you've stated your opinion.
  • Abyss
    1651 posts Member
    Don't Care
    Tanks aside, if the REAL point your trying to convey is that toons that can counter dont do enough damage i will fully disagree with a full spectrum damage buff on counters again citing dooku as an example. If durable toons like kylo/fives counter hit hard then dooku becomes obsolite due to the poor health pool
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    Menace's step to success

    Step 1: create numerous nerf Dooku threads filled with hyperbole surrounding his attacks and counters

    Step 2: create a buff Dooku and other counter attacker poll

    Step 3: ????

    Step 4: prof......wait....

    whatisthis.png
  • MenaceTEC
    670 posts Member
    edited March 2016
    Telaan wrote: »
    Menace's step to success

    Step 1: create numerous nerf Dooku threads filled with hyperbole surrounding his attacks and counters

    Step 2: create a buff Dooku and other counter attacker poll

    Step 3: ????

    Step 4: prof......wait....

    whatisthis.png

    Not sure why you continue to lie and say I post nerf posts. When in fact you did the nerf posting as I demonstrated earlier.

    If you read and understand which you don't often I said this doesn't really apply to Dooku.

    It's at least an idea instead of constant whining.
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Telaan wrote: »
    Menace's step to success

    Step 1: create numerous nerf Dooku threads filled with hyperbole surrounding his attacks and counters

    Step 2: create a buff Dooku and other counter attacker poll

    Step 3: ????

    Step 4: prof......wait....

    whatisthis.png

    Not sure why you continue to lie and say I post nerf posts. When in fact you did the nerf posting as I demonstrated earlier.

    If you read and understand which you don't often I said this doesn't really apply to Dooku.

    It's at least an idea instead of constant whining.

    I read your subsequent back peddle here:
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    No just the ones that do now, sure they would be more valuable. But no other changes just up the damage.

    If two or three of your toons counter and the others are speed at least there is some variety to teams.

    Kylo, 55, Dooku, FOST, and others. Dooku doesn't fit with the idea really.

    ...where you also....I have no idea what you're trying to say. You list him as included but then later exclude him.

    My vote to your idea is no. Counters are potent enough.
  • Do you really want to run 12 GW nodes where you face the same counter teams over and over.
  • No
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  • No
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    So the idea more clearly stated is like this.


    Slow tanks characters are not used as much due to a speed meta. The mentioned toons don't quite get it right. They need taunt as well as counter to deal with the speed dps meta. However any countering toon would be an option if they were hitting low hp glass cannons for a higher damage.

    Even then not a guaranteed counter. It would allow you to fight dps with something other than dps.

    So something like if they do over 4k of damage, a high damage counter could be triggered?

  • No
    Counters are basically free or extra attacks. If anything they should do less damage
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  • Aero
    2972 posts Member
    This has got me thinking. Right now a character attacks another character and the character getting attacked just sits there and takes it. What if the system was something more like Civ? You pick who to attack then both go at it? Results vary depending on the attack you chose. Future attacks also lose effectiveness with losed health.

    Waaay to late for such a total conversion, but in theory it might of created a better game.
  • No
    Counters are already stupid as **** to deal with. At least with the glass cannon they get the shot off and you melt them, the counter would persist the entire game. People already hate dooku as it is, that would just turn the forums into a Dooku hate club
  • No
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  • No
    Starjumper wrote: »
    Counters are basically free or extra attacks. If anything they should do less damage

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  • SaintEaters
    412 posts Member
    edited March 2016
    No
    It would decrease variety be them everyone would be running counters. I currently run a counter squad and it does fine without the extra damage. More so, all the counter attack characters, except one, do have damage boost on counter attacks.

    It would be a very bad change, imo. Yes, would shift the meta but it would just go from one extreme to another. The point of balance is to have a middle ground where all toons abilities can make a difference. That way you could run a control/defense squad against a DPS squad and still possible to win.

    For defense to have any impact at all the whole defense system would have to be revamped to percentage based. I am pretty sure that they have no plans for doing that, although I would greatly welcome it with open arms.

    @MenaceTEC how can I send you a private message from mobile phone on this forum?
  • Toukai
    1822 posts Member
    No
    5s already counters and he is a tank. Not only that, but he applies a speed debuff. Could you imagine 3+tanks all countering, applying debuffs (poe, 5s, st han) with Baris (tank healer) and maybe JC (high hp)? You'd never win. Even if you killed the weak links, Bariss and JC, you'd still be countered to death on any aoe (enjoy that person being speed and dot debuffed while everyone gains turn meter) followed by when you have to actually pick them off they'd still counter and debuff and gain turn meter AND get to attack.

    Thats a right hearty NO
  • CPMP
    974 posts Member
    No
    Yes, increase Dooku's counter damage to bring variety to the game...Lol
  • ARC
    138 posts Member
    8gAap9E.png
    No thanks
  • Nikoms565
    10772 posts Member
    No
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Abyss wrote: »
    Counter damage has nothing to do with variety. I dont follow the logic at all??????

    If you have high hp tanks that don't do huge regular damage but inflict high counter damage it would leave glass cannons at say 30-50% health.
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    No just the ones that do now, sure they would be more valuable. But no other changes just up the damage.

    Kylo, 55, Dooku, FOST, and others. Dooku doesn't fit with the idea really.

    If I understand the two posts above correctly (the first, asking for a damage buff to the counters, the second, to only those who currently have a counter - but not Dooku - so, in effect 3 characters, only 2 of who are used often), the poll is basically asking if a damage buff for Fives and Kylo will increase variety.

    No. Buffing two (3 if you want to include FOST) heroes will not increase variety.
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  • Fives and Dooku already do more damage on counters than their basic attacks. I wouldn't mind if FOST's counter did more damage. Kylo's counter already inflicts heal block often so I don't think his counter needs more damage.
  • cby
    104 posts Member
    If you look at where Fives is going with ability level 7 and 8 on his counterattack
    ( http://www.swgohcantina.com/ct-5555-fives/ ) looks like devs already working towards it somewhat

    at ability level 8, 85% chance counter with 75% increased damage - it's a QGJ assist-ish counterattack...
  • No
    cby wrote: »
    If you look at where Fives is going with ability level 7 and 8 on his counterattack
    ( http://www.swgohcantina.com/ct-5555-fives/ ) looks like devs already working towards it somewhat

    at ability level 8, 85% chance counter with 75% increased damage - it's a QGJ assist-ish counterattack...

    AND multiattack on basic against targets under speed down effect, potentially making him a pain if left untouched to the end.
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