Why doesn't Jyns truncheon strike work like Luke's use the force ability?

So I'm experimenting with tank solo teams and I'm noticing that, against grievous, on the last hit Jyns truncheon strike doesn't work like Luke's use the force ability. Luke's will deal the damage, give grievous 100% tm, and then remove all the tm before grievous is able to take his turn. The wording for the 2 abilities is pretty much the same in that order but jyns seems like it takes the tm BEFORE giving grievous 100% tm instead of right after like Luke's. Can someone explain why?

Replies

  • Because that’s how the order of operations is for jyn, Tm first, then damage.
  • I just find it strange cause her ability says deal damage and remove all tm... figured if it was the tm first it would say something like remove tm and then deal physical damage
  • komji15
    534 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    Well.. I have been wondering that either.
    Raid bosses earn 5% TM when they are damaged.

    Jyn’s attack is stealing the enemies TM... so... Jyn steals it ‘then’ raid bosses gain 5% TM. Grand Master Yoda can remove 70% TM. But his TM removal also works before bosses earn 5% TM. Thrawn’s fracture is also same. Remove 50% TM then attack 4 times. So raid bosses earn 20%+5% TM after fractured.

    However, CLS’s TM removal is working after Raid bosses earn 5% TM.
    That’s when grievous gets 100% TM after 7 hits, CLS removes all the bonus TM with his ‘use the force’.

    But I don’t know why..
    Why CLS..?
    His basic attack is too.
    His TM removal functions are always working after raid bosses earn the 5% TM.
  • Because of the order of operations , cls damages first them removes tm, Jyn is the opposite, That’s how the chars are built .
  • Yeah all of his tm reduction works after grievous gets tm but the wording of his ability is similar to the wording of other abilities, so it's just confusing as to why only he can do it
  • Descriptions are not used to determine order of operation, they provide the info for what the ability will do, depending on other factors, dodge, resist, etc.
  • Hans basic seems to work like CLS too.
  • Because of the order of operations , cls damages first them removes tm, Jyn is the opposite, That’s how the chars are built .

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing that they *aren’t* built that way, I think he’s suggesting that they were built wrong based on the wording. A plain text description of the ability should more or less match what the ability actually does. There’s very little in the description that differentiates Jyn’s from CLS.
  • Because of the order of operations , cls damages first them removes tm, Jyn is the opposite, That’s how the chars are built .

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing that they *aren’t* built that way, I think he’s suggesting that they were built wrong based on the wording. A plain text description of the ability should more or less match what the ability actually does. There’s very little in the description that differentiates Jyn’s from CLS.
    Descriptions are not used to determine order of operation, they provide the info for what the ability will do, depending on other factors, dodge, resist, etc.

  • Because of the order of operations , cls damages first them removes tm, Jyn is the opposite, That’s how the chars are built .

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing that they *aren’t* built that way, I think he’s suggesting that they were built wrong based on the wording. A plain text description of the ability should more or less match what the ability actually does. There’s very little in the description that differentiates Jyn’s from CLS.
    Descriptions are not used to determine order of operation, they provide the info for what the ability will do, depending on other factors, dodge, resist, etc.

    Would be nice if they did
  • A little bit lol, but man can you see the walls of text to explain what a skill does, and then what order it does it in lol
  • A little bit lol, but man can you see the walls of text to explain what a skill does, and then what order it does it in lol

    Yeah. Maybe just put it in with kit release?
  • CCyrilS wrote: »
    A little bit lol, but man can you see the walls of text to explain what a skill does, and then what order it does it in lol

    Yeah. Maybe just put it in with kit release?

    Or just use consistent wording that matches the order of operations?

    Make it so that "deal damage and remove TM" means that damage is dealt then TM is removed and "remove TM and deal damage" means the opposite.

    Doesn't seem too hard...
  • Even better would be "deal damage THEN remove tm"
  • A little bit lol, but man can you see the walls of text to explain what a skill does, and then what order it does it in lol

    I mean, not really...it’s as easy as adding “then”s in where needed. The text should match the build as close as possible. Without looking into the actual build, how would you know that Jyn and CLS function any different?
  • crzydroid
    5479 posts Moderator
    Jyn's used to work that way, but she wouldn't steal the tm on a finishing blow. Their way to "fix" this was by dealing damage second. She used to be vital to a pretty good HAAT p1 team before the days of Zylo and CLS and reworked raid Han, but their "fix" unfortunately ruined that comp. I'm not sure whether they have any intention of coming up with a proper solution.

    I've only recently become aware that Yoda deals damage second. That could be one of those wording inconsistencies as he's an old character. I suppose it could be considered a bug. I think Thrawn could be WAI, as even though the dispell is intended to go before the Fracture debuff, I'm guessing they want Fracture to land before any on-damage effects. Even if so, it would still represent a bug in the wording.
  • crzydroid wrote: »
    Jyn's used to work that way, but she wouldn't steal the tm on a finishing blow. Their way to "fix" this was by dealing damage second. She used to be vital to a pretty good HAAT p1 team before the days of Zylo and CLS and reworked raid Han, but their "fix" unfortunately ruined that comp. I'm not sure whether they have any intention of coming up with a proper solution.

    I've only recently become aware that Yoda deals damage second. That could be one of those wording inconsistencies as he's an old character. I suppose it could be considered a bug. I think Thrawn could be WAI, as even though the dispell is intended to go before the Fracture debuff, I'm guessing they want Fracture to land before any on-damage effects. Even if so, it would still represent a bug in the wording.

    That’s good insight and explains how we got where we are. Ideally they’d flip it back and add a step to check TM before a killing blow, but I think they should at least clarify the text.
  • It makes sense why they changed it but I do agree that the wording should generally match the order... sucks that they changed it though... trying to get cls to always be the last hit is a pain and having a second possible character to do that would be really useful
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