The guild I’m an officer in had a 98% win ratio in TW.... until today. We’re a pretty pure guild with very little people who pay to win, but unfortunately matched with the opposite kind of guild. Maxed Jedi Revans, not much we can do about that.
I don’t think the matching algorithm was flawed, just some guilds have better strategies. Maybe adjust it again to accommodate those guilds who aren’t spending $600 a toon ?.
The guild I’m an officer in had a 98% win ratio in TW.... until today. We’re a pretty pure guild with very little people who pay to win, but unfortunately matched with the opposite kind of guild. Maxed Jedi Revans, not much we can do about that.
I don’t think the matching algorithm was flawed, just some guilds have better strategies. Maybe adjust it again to accommodate those guilds who aren’t spending $600 a toon ?.
Again, not every loss is because of sandbagging, or even bad matchmaking. For instance, our current match, both guilds at 50, we had every statistical advantage possible, but they were much more efficient, and cleared the board. They are going to win. It happens.
The fact that not every loss is the result of sandbagging does not mean sandbagging isn't a thing.
starson if a 210m guild drops 3 people and their active gp is 197. with 47 people then they will get pair with a similar amount of people with similar amount of active GP.
the sharpshooter example of an arguement you are using as an arguement applies to whale guilds with an average of 4 million gp+ per player, which is severely limited to the number of comparative sized guilds to match to. even so at that size with 210m gp the margin of difference between that and a 190 m gp guild is minimal. we are speaking of an average differnce of 400k per player. it's a lot more of an impact at lower levels
too many people put to much emphasis on GP.
I'm 2.4 million gp but could destroy a 2.8 million gp player head to head if his gp is made up of mostly g7 toons, most of my gp comes from the 40 or so g11 and g12 toons. I've seen players with more gp than me and only 12 or so g11+ toons. lean rosters do make a difference. so it's not verifiably false, you are obviously one of these players that puts too much stock into GP.
but if you must insist on believing in the fairytale of GP of importance, if 45 people join a tw they will be matched to a guild with a similar amount of active players, not all 50, with a a similar amount of active GP coming from all toons above 6000gp.
active gp# factors in the active players full roster, but the gp that gets used for match making comes from toons above 6000 which is less than the active gp because it doesnt factor in gp less than 6000 than arent eligable. this number is not specifically known and separate from active gp or guild gp.
also how is it sandbagging when our guild only has 48 members and 2 of them are dont join because they arent active players.
do you think they should join regardless so that the rest of the guild can carry them while they put up donuts because they are busy in RL?
even so your theory is demonstrably false as I have shown above, more than a few times we have been paired with a guild 30 million in gp more than up (93 milllion<127million) and still won.
you're view on how the match making works is overly simple and why it seems unfair to you when you dont understand the complexity involved
The guild I’m an officer in had a 98% win ratio in TW.... until today. We’re a pretty pure guild with very little people who pay to win, but unfortunately matched with the opposite kind of guild. Maxed Jedi Revans, not much we can do about that.
I don’t think the matching algorithm was flawed, just some guilds have better strategies. Maybe adjust it again to accommodate those guilds who aren’t spending $600 a toon ?.
Again, not every loss is because of sandbagging, or even bad matchmaking. For instance, our current match, both guilds at 50, we had every statistical advantage possible, but they were much more efficient, and cleared the board. They are going to win. It happens.
The fact that not every loss is the result of sandbagging does not mean sandbagging isn't a thing.
Oh I agree, and we were unaware of the term, but we did notice an easier time with less members, but we never intentionally posted -42 members lol.
Not griping about anything much other than the fact we finally lost right after the adjustments, and to a whale guild.
What exploit there is no exploit for territory wars
Not an exploit but They have some guilds regist only 48/50 to match with 10M lower gp guild. You know the current system is not perfect.
This is not true, we regularly have 46-50 players and see even matches almost all the time and even the not so even ones, are still close.
But it is true when u drop to the 120-140m bracket. This is because:
1) High number of inflated gp guilds registering 50/50. These guilds would get 2 zetas if they won in the lower bracket, and 2 if they lost in the upper bracket, hence the choice is clear.
2) High number of deflated gp guilds. These guilds are more likely to be matched with another guild that is way weaker. They dont gain much from being in the 140 and above brackets, since zetas from win or loss is still the same.
My guild has had a 100% winrate whenever we sandbag and a 0% winrate whenever we dont (because then we face a guild 20m above us). I can't say for the whole population, but stats for my guild are skewed enough to warrant sandbagging.
starson if a 210m guild drops 3 people and their active gp is 197. with 47 people then they will get pair with a similar amount of people with similar amount of active GP.
I can't even read the rest of your wall of text, because you are still wrong about this. It happened to us a couple weeks ago. Guild with 212M GP dropped 3 players. Active GP would have been about 200M. We had 50 people and an active GP of 189M.
Matchmaking does not work the way you think it does. And it's largely irrelevant anyway, since they are changing it, and will give us probably fewer details about how it works than they did with this past system.
Also, wanted to come back and mention this cuz it's been bothering me.. Not sure why you guys use the term "sandbagging" rather than "exploit," in this case the latter is much more applicable. Just saying..
1 : to make productive use of : UTILIZE
2 : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage
...but it's all semantics.
Sandbagging is a more specific term, if that clears things up. In any tournament where there is a matchup system based on a rating, then sandbagging is an exploit of the matchmaking system. Usually such tournaments where sandbagging is an issue will provide a rule to explicitly ban such behavior (e.g. dartslive tournaments). If EA CG thinks it's an issue then they should explicitly ban it, but clearly that will have horrific repercussions.
I'm 2.4 million gp but could destroy a 2.8 million gp player head to head if his gp is made up of mostly g7 toons, most of my gp comes from the 40 or so g11 and g12 toons. I've seen players with more gp than me and only 12 or so g11+ toons. lean rosters do make a difference. so it's not verifiably false, you are obviously one of these players that puts too much stock into GP.
It's all preference. Personally, I don't agree at all, as we have several members in TW who can single handedly wipe entire sectors, or fill them with viable defense teams. I can place a defensive team in each sector and still have attack teams. Granted, they're not all meta-level, but many can wipe standard teams.
Luckily there's only a handful of actual meta teams, and each have at least one counter, so if you have all of those geared, every other semigeared team is additional banners. Also Luckily you can beat much higher gp teams with hard counters also.
starson if a 210m guild drops 3 people and their active gp is 197. with 47 people then they will get pair with a similar amount of people with similar amount of active GP.
I can't even read the rest of your wall of text, because you are still wrong about this. It happened to us a couple weeks ago. Guild with 212M GP dropped 3 players. Active GP would have been about 200M. We had 50 people and an active GP of 189M.
Matchmaking does not work the way you think it does. And it's largely irrelevant anyway, since they are changing it, and will give us probably fewer details about how it works than they did with this past system.
1. I hardly think that an average difference of 470k per player is a huge mismatch or giant disadvantage.
and again cg has said before that you are only matched on toons above 6000gp, and not on active GP, none of which the numbers you gave me take into account, so in will say again that your idea of how matchmaking has work is largely overly simplified an inncorrect.
2. like I've shown before it's possible to wipe the floor of a guild over 30 million more gp than you. GP. doesnt give an accurate depiction of power, or strategy or skill of the player.
it just sounds like a stream of excuses and whining from people who cant win because they arent that good at playing the game.
Also, wanted to come back and mention this cuz it's been bothering me.. Not sure why you guys use the term "sandbagging" rather than "exploit," in this case the latter is much more applicable. Just saying..
1 : to make productive use of : UTILIZE
2 : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage
...but it's all semantics.
Sandbagging is a more specific term, if that clears things up. In any tournament where there is a matchup system based on a rating, then sandbagging is an exploit of the matchmaking system. Usually such tournaments where sandbagging is an issue will provide a rule to explicitly ban such behavior (e.g. dartslive tournaments). If EA CG thinks it's an issue then they should explicitly ban it, but clearly that will have horrific repercussions.
how do you ban sandbagging? force all members of a guild to participate? even when they maybe inactive because of real life? that's not particularly fair to make guilds carry their load, this game is already bad enough making things feel like a second job, so now people need to be worried about being kicked when they are on vacation, in hospital or phone breaks. atleast not joining doesnt put a burden on the rest of your guild.
starson if a 210m guild drops 3 people and their active gp is 197. with 47 people then they will get pair with a similar amount of people with similar amount of active GP.
I can't even read the rest of your wall of text, because you are still wrong about this. It happened to us a couple weeks ago. Guild with 212M GP dropped 3 players. Active GP would have been about 200M. We had 50 people and an active GP of 189M.
Matchmaking does not work the way you think it does. And it's largely irrelevant anyway, since they are changing it, and will give us probably fewer details about how it works than they did with this past system.
1. I hardly think that an average difference of 470k per player is a huge mismatch or giant disadvantage.
and again cg has said before that you are only matched on toons above 6000gp, and not on active GP, none of which the numbers you gave me take into account, so in will say again that your idea of how matchmaking has work is largely overly simplified an inncorrect.
2. like I've shown before it's possible to wipe the floor of a guild over 30 million more gp than you. GP. doesnt give an accurate depiction of power, or strategy or skill of the player.
it just sounds like a stream of excuses and whining from people who cant win because they arent that good at playing the game.
1. Find me the post then, because last I saw they said they took into account the top 5 teams, which would never discount chars under any GP.
2. Sure it is, unless that guild is purposefully sandbagging. GP is a terrible indicator of anything, but it's an easy number to quote.
But I would never expect someone who uses the exploit to own up to it, or admit that it's helped him ever. So it's cool.
But I would never expect someone who uses the exploit to own up to it, or admit that it's helped him ever. So it's cool.
Edit:that quote was starson, not Russ..
😂 I did! But seriously, take a look at the bracket Russ is in. It makes perfect sense that he's on a winning streak, no sandbaggin needed. We were there once too, it was nice.
Now its walls of traya, revan, 7* chewy, etc if you go all in. So yea, I couldn't beat em, I joined em. If they fix it, war would be great again
starson if a 210m guild drops 3 people and their active gp is 197. with 47 people then they will get pair with a similar amount of people with similar amount of active GP.
I can't even read the rest of your wall of text, because you are still wrong about this. It happened to us a couple weeks ago. Guild with 212M GP dropped 3 players. Active GP would have been about 200M. We had 50 people and an active GP of 189M.
Matchmaking does not work the way you think it does. And it's largely irrelevant anyway, since they are changing it, and will give us probably fewer details about how it works than they did with this past system.
1. I hardly think that an average difference of 470k per player is a huge mismatch or giant disadvantage.
and again cg has said before that you are only matched on toons above 6000gp, and not on active GP, none of which the numbers you gave me take into account, so in will say again that your idea of how matchmaking has work is largely overly simplified an inncorrect.
2. like I've shown before it's possible to wipe the floor of a guild over 30 million more gp than you. GP. doesnt give an accurate depiction of power, or strategy or skill of the player.
it just sounds like a stream of excuses and whining from people who cant win because they arent that good at playing the game.
1. Find me the post then, because last I saw they said they took into account the top 5 teams, which would never discount chars under any GP.
2. Sure it is, unless that guild is purposefully sandbagging. GP is a terrible indicator of anything, but it's an easy number to quote.
But I would never expect someone who uses the exploit to own up to it, or admit that it's helped him ever. So it's cool.
how are we sandbagging when we only have 48 members and a few people dont sign up on their own accord? it's not done with any purpose.
and I'll try and find the post but it's a needle in a haystack
Not griping about anything much other than the fact we finally lost right after the adjustments, and to a whale guild.
The adjustments haven't happened yet...the next war will be the first one with the adjustments. The in-game message said "These changes will take place for the Territory War starting on 11/29."
All I know if that we got our teeth kicked in today for this last TW. Wasn't even close. I'm looking forward to a more even match making process.
Also I love the guy above. Glad the internet wasn't invented just for bragging online to people you don't know. Now let me just take a sip from my World's Best Dad coffee mug. Yeah. That's right.
Usually I just look up the other team when after the setup phase is complete and I can see who we are facing.
that doesnt t you what thier active gp is, or how many of them joined
True.
alot of times if I want more information of our match up in will try and contact someone in the opposing guild. sharing active gp and active players doesnt give either team an advantage. it's a shame it this is information that should be given
by cg after the match is made
Replies
I don’t think the matching algorithm was flawed, just some guilds have better strategies. Maybe adjust it again to accommodate those guilds who aren’t spending $600 a toon ?.
Again, not every loss is because of sandbagging, or even bad matchmaking. For instance, our current match, both guilds at 50, we had every statistical advantage possible, but they were much more efficient, and cleared the board. They are going to win. It happens.
The fact that not every loss is the result of sandbagging does not mean sandbagging isn't a thing.
the sharpshooter example of an arguement you are using as an arguement applies to whale guilds with an average of 4 million gp+ per player, which is severely limited to the number of comparative sized guilds to match to. even so at that size with 210m gp the margin of difference between that and a 190 m gp guild is minimal. we are speaking of an average differnce of 400k per player. it's a lot more of an impact at lower levels
too many people put to much emphasis on GP.
I'm 2.4 million gp but could destroy a 2.8 million gp player head to head if his gp is made up of mostly g7 toons, most of my gp comes from the 40 or so g11 and g12 toons. I've seen players with more gp than me and only 12 or so g11+ toons. lean rosters do make a difference. so it's not verifiably false, you are obviously one of these players that puts too much stock into GP.
but if you must insist on believing in the fairytale of GP of importance, if 45 people join a tw they will be matched to a guild with a similar amount of active players, not all 50, with a a similar amount of active GP coming from all toons above 6000gp.
active gp# factors in the active players full roster, but the gp that gets used for match making comes from toons above 6000 which is less than the active gp because it doesnt factor in gp less than 6000 than arent eligable. this number is not specifically known and separate from active gp or guild gp.
also how is it sandbagging when our guild only has 48 members and 2 of them are dont join because they arent active players.
do you think they should join regardless so that the rest of the guild can carry them while they put up donuts because they are busy in RL?
even so your theory is demonstrably false as I have shown above, more than a few times we have been paired with a guild 30 million in gp more than up (93 milllion<127million) and still won.
you're view on how the match making works is overly simple and why it seems unfair to you when you dont understand the complexity involved
Oh I agree, and we were unaware of the term, but we did notice an easier time with less members, but we never intentionally posted -42 members lol.
Not griping about anything much other than the fact we finally lost right after the adjustments, and to a whale guild.
But it is true when u drop to the 120-140m bracket. This is because:
1) High number of inflated gp guilds registering 50/50. These guilds would get 2 zetas if they won in the lower bracket, and 2 if they lost in the upper bracket, hence the choice is clear.
2) High number of deflated gp guilds. These guilds are more likely to be matched with another guild that is way weaker. They dont gain much from being in the 140 and above brackets, since zetas from win or loss is still the same.
My guild has had a 100% winrate whenever we sandbag and a 0% winrate whenever we dont (because then we face a guild 20m above us). I can't say for the whole population, but stats for my guild are skewed enough to warrant sandbagging.
I can't even read the rest of your wall of text, because you are still wrong about this. It happened to us a couple weeks ago. Guild with 212M GP dropped 3 players. Active GP would have been about 200M. We had 50 people and an active GP of 189M.
Matchmaking does not work the way you think it does. And it's largely irrelevant anyway, since they are changing it, and will give us probably fewer details about how it works than they did with this past system.
Sandbagging is a more specific term, if that clears things up. In any tournament where there is a matchup system based on a rating, then sandbagging is an exploit of the matchmaking system. Usually such tournaments where sandbagging is an issue will provide a rule to explicitly ban such behavior (e.g. dartslive tournaments). If EA CG thinks it's an issue then they should explicitly ban it, but clearly that will have horrific repercussions.
It's all preference. Personally, I don't agree at all, as we have several members in TW who can single handedly wipe entire sectors, or fill them with viable defense teams. I can place a defensive team in each sector and still have attack teams. Granted, they're not all meta-level, but many can wipe standard teams.
Luckily there's only a handful of actual meta teams, and each have at least one counter, so if you have all of those geared, every other semigeared team is additional banners. Also Luckily you can beat much higher gp teams with hard counters also.
1. I hardly think that an average difference of 470k per player is a huge mismatch or giant disadvantage.
and again cg has said before that you are only matched on toons above 6000gp, and not on active GP, none of which the numbers you gave me take into account, so in will say again that your idea of how matchmaking has work is largely overly simplified an inncorrect.
2. like I've shown before it's possible to wipe the floor of a guild over 30 million more gp than you. GP. doesnt give an accurate depiction of power, or strategy or skill of the player.
it just sounds like a stream of excuses and whining from people who cant win because they arent that good at playing the game.
how do you ban sandbagging? force all members of a guild to participate? even when they maybe inactive because of real life? that's not particularly fair to make guilds carry their load, this game is already bad enough making things feel like a second job, so now people need to be worried about being kicked when they are on vacation, in hospital or phone breaks. atleast not joining doesnt put a burden on the rest of your guild.
what about guilds that arent full?
1. Find me the post then, because last I saw they said they took into account the top 5 teams, which would never discount chars under any GP.
2. Sure it is, unless that guild is purposefully sandbagging. GP is a terrible indicator of anything, but it's an easy number to quote.
But I would never expect someone who uses the exploit to own up to it, or admit that it's helped him ever. So it's cool.
😂 I did! But seriously, take a look at the bracket Russ is in. It makes perfect sense that he's on a winning streak, no sandbaggin needed. We were there once too, it was nice.
Now its walls of traya, revan, 7* chewy, etc if you go all in. So yea, I couldn't beat em, I joined em. If they fix it, war would be great again
how are we sandbagging when we only have 48 members and a few people dont sign up on their own accord? it's not done with any purpose.
and I'll try and find the post but it's a needle in a haystack
The adjustments haven't happened yet...the next war will be the first one with the adjustments. The in-game message said "These changes will take place for the Territory War starting on 11/29."
Also I love the guy above. Glad the internet wasn't invented just for bragging online to people you don't know. Now let me just take a sip from my World's Best Dad coffee mug. Yeah. That's right.
True.
alot of times if I want more information of our match up in will try and contact someone in the opposing guild. sharing active gp and active players doesnt give either team an advantage. it's a shame it this is information that should be given
by cg after the match is made