Sandbagging, the new normal?

Replies

  • JohnAran wrote: »
    Boov wrote: »
    BrtStlnd wrote: »

    Zombie is a terrible example because she SPECIFICALLY was a more effective character at lower gear. The point they were making in leveling characters is that the more you invest in them, the better they should perform, this is NOT saying “you should level all characters.”

    Zombies best characteristic was to die as often as possible. This is not true with any other character in the game.

    No one is saying you should level all characters. The point is that zombi performed better with less resources invested (which was not in the spirit of the game according to the devs), just like a roster performs better with less resources invested.
    For example, i've got 100m+ credits just laying around, if i would use half of those credits to "improve" my roster it would actually make my roster worse given the fact that i already have all my usefull toons at lvl 85. I'm only using half of my credits in this example because the other half could actually benefit my roster in one way or another in the near future.
    That's the similarity between the zombi example and what's happening now with GA. Obviously there are differences, but that's the main similarity that applies to both.

    That’s just not true. There is exactly zero situation where your « improved » roster would perform less.
    Every ressource spent on your roster makes it strictly stronger no matter what.


    No it makes your GP higher. 7 starring and 12 gearing ugnaught does not make you stronger, it just adds 12000 gp and potentially bumping you into a higher bracket.

    I am over 3.5 million GP. 1.25 million (easily) of that GP is bull **** toons at 5 gear lvl 85. Because i didnt know better. They do not make my roster stronger. They make my viable toons compete against equal gp of people who didnt spend the first year of the game maxing out clones so he could say he has a "clone army"

    In my GA right now the guy who is going to win it all has. Double the 12 geared and double the zetas that i have, yet we are equal on GP. So what you say is blatantly incorrect.

    I’m not against debating the grand arena matchmaking if you feel the need to. Being biased against it however dorsn’t give the right to bend reality.
    100% correct facts :
    - Ugnaught is stronger at 7* g12 than he at 3* g1
    - A roster with 7* g12 Ugnaught will be strictly stronger than the same roster with 3* g1 Ugnaught.
    - The fact that it will or will not make your matchup harder in grand arena specifically has nothing to do with your overall roster strenght.

    Now to some contradictions :
    People are stating that new players are at an advantage because they didn’t farm weak characters so they have a naturally leaner roster -> their solution is to reduce their gp and slow down their growth so that those naturally leaner rosters can catchup on them.
    People are stating that reducing gp by sandbagging will allow them to get much easier matchups while saying that the algorithm is horrible because gp means nothing.
  • The people crying "resource management " are clearly new to the game. Anyone who has played for more than 2 years probably has 10s of millions of extra credits, thousands of extra G1-8 gear, and hundreds of extra ability mats. We didn't level our Ugnaughts because we made bad decisions, we leveled Ugnaught because we had extra credits and gear.

    @C_Augustus1 Playing for two years. Currently sitting at 1 purple mat and 3 omegas. If I try to level a toon up past Gear III I will start spending crystals on refreshes for whatever Mk Furnace is sitting on LS 1-C, the green Weapon Mod that's the last piece of MK 5 Stun Guns, Mk 1 Bacta Salvage, etc. Heck, I almost ran out of Mk 4 Laptops thanks to the Ewok gear-stravaganza (which is a prime example of why we "hoard").

    I'd put that closer to three years, not two. Those of us playing for two years came of age in the era of the legendary panic farm (R2, Thrawn, CLS, BB8, RTJ) and a lot of us have yet to catch up enough to have that kind of cache of unused purple mats sitting around.

    Just remember that every players' experience will be very different depending on when they took up the game whilst dropping your judgment from Mt. Soapbox.

  • @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.
  • @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    He is level 85 because instead of buying mods, you leveled your characters. A few dozen of my characters are level 50 or below because I don't have the credits to spare for something that gains me nothing outside of deployment scores and self-satisfaction of a higher GP.

    You can be salty all you want, but the truth is that the other guy spent his resources more wisely than you did, and that's got nothing to do with CG, everything to do with what you decided to do with your roster.
  • I still don't grasp how people thing being smart with your resources is somehow cheating, or "Sandbagging". Anyone who bothered to read up on how to approach the game learned that you need to focus on Arena->Legendary Reqs->Raids/guild events. If you follow this approach you will naturally have a lean roster because you don't spend resources on junk until you reach a point that you can do so for kicks.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    He is level 85 because instead of buying mods, you leveled your characters. A few dozen of my characters are level 50 or below because I don't have the credits to spare for something that gains me nothing outside of deployment scores and self-satisfaction of a higher GP.

    You can be salty all you want, but the truth is that the other guy spent his resources more wisely than you did, and that's got nothing to do with CG, everything to do with what you decided to do with your roster.

    There not really any truth to your statement for those of us at the high end of GP who have been playing the game since launch. We likely already leveled all of our trash long ago when it was needed to help for TB release. You know... that game mode for which GP was invented. The one that was billed as "now every upgrade counts".

    Mods could not be obtained for credits until long after that time.

  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    He is level 85 because instead of buying mods, you leveled your characters. A few dozen of my characters are level 50 or below because I don't have the credits to spare for something that gains me nothing outside of deployment scores and self-satisfaction of a higher GP.

    You can be salty all you want, but the truth is that the other guy spent his resources more wisely than you did, and that's got nothing to do with CG, everything to do with what you decided to do with your roster.

    There not really any truth to your statement for those of us at the high end of GP who have been playing the game since launch. We likely already leveled all of our trash long ago when it was needed to help for TB release. You know... that game mode for which GP was invented. The one that was billed as "now every upgrade counts".

    Mods could not be obtained for credits until long after that time.

    Mods could be obtained for credits. The change removed the crystal mods, and added some for ship credits, but before that change there had long been some mods in the mod store that were priced in credits.
  • Liath wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    He is level 85 because instead of buying mods, you leveled your characters. A few dozen of my characters are level 50 or below because I don't have the credits to spare for something that gains me nothing outside of deployment scores and self-satisfaction of a higher GP.

    You can be salty all you want, but the truth is that the other guy spent his resources more wisely than you did, and that's got nothing to do with CG, everything to do with what you decided to do with your roster.

    There not really any truth to your statement for those of us at the high end of GP who have been playing the game since launch. We likely already leveled all of our trash long ago when it was needed to help for TB release. You know... that game mode for which GP was invented. The one that was billed as "now every upgrade counts".

    Mods could not be obtained for credits until long after that time.

    Mods could be obtained for credits. The change removed the crystal mods, and added some for ship credits, but before that change there had long been some mods in the mod store that were priced in credits.

    Hmm I don't remember that. There certainly weren't any GOOD mods with speed secondaries offered for credit OR at least not enough of them that it would ever have required significant credit resources to obtain them.
  • I see good mods in the store every day. I also see ones that are horrible. Not sure how anyone could say the mod store isn't beneficial.

    I used to level every toon to 50 for mod storage. Now I am keeping toons at level 1, g1 until they are not only 7* but have a distinct purpose.
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    He is level 85 because instead of buying mods, you leveled your characters. A few dozen of my characters are level 50 or below because I don't have the credits to spare for something that gains me nothing outside of deployment scores and self-satisfaction of a higher GP.

    You can be salty all you want, but the truth is that the other guy spent his resources more wisely than you did, and that's got nothing to do with CG, everything to do with what you decided to do with your roster.

    There not really any truth to your statement for those of us at the high end of GP who have been playing the game since launch. We likely already leveled all of our trash long ago when it was needed to help for TB release. You know... that game mode for which GP was invented. The one that was billed as "now every upgrade counts".

    Mods could not be obtained for credits until long after that time.

    Mods could be obtained for credits. The change removed the crystal mods, and added some for ship credits, but before that change there had long been some mods in the mod store that were priced in credits.

    Hmm I don't remember that. There certainly weren't any GOOD mods with speed secondaries offered for credit OR at least not enough of them that it would ever have required significant credit resources to obtain them.

    Maybe you weren’t looking. I got a lot of my best mods that way.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    Disruptor wrote: »

    Nobody, at any point, who "hoards" game resources does so with the express intent of minimizing GP. They do it in order to be able to react to swift and unexpected changes in the game. Rosters progress with the speed and handling of a cruise ship, requiring methodical planning and diligent execution of that plan. Unforeseen events arise (in the form of disruptive character kits, reworks or game modes) that require rosters to move more like a speed boat, changing direction quickly and accelerating at once. Having resources on-hand enables that. Spending everything you have the minute you have it does not.

    You wouldn't run your household without a savings buffer, would you? Why would you play the game that way?



    Exactly my point. I couldn't have said it better. I don't "hoard" just for the sake of hoarding or minimizing gp. I just don't see a point in getting my 7* cup to g8 lvl 85 or higher because it will be equally useless to its current state at g1 lvl 1, except for a slight bonus in TB. I don't hoard, but I just use items/currency only where I see fit. As you mentioned, the game can always change overnight, and the thousands of unused low level gear pieces could become useful all of a sudden. And I'd be prepared. Same with any other currency or item. I don't "hoard" them just to keep my GP low, I do it because I wanna be best prepared for whatever may come to the game in the future. Like in real life, it's always good to have stuff saved to fall back on, if ever needed. Spending stuff the moment you get it is careless imo. If you want to play like that, feel free. But don't complain when something gets introduced to the game that will require stuff you used on rather unimportant stuff, while I'll be sitting on thousands of whatever it will be.

    I herd they will release 320 new characters on new year's eve. Gotta get your grey/green/blue gear ready.

    Lmfao
  • I'm salty

    @C_Augustus1 There, I got rid of the extraneous "fluff" (apparently like a lot of your GP) and and boiled your "argument" down to its core.

    The "I bumped my GP for my guild for TB" argument is poor. If you wanted to help your guild out with TB, you would have invested in four strong squads that can get full CM waves regardless of your platoon situation. The final wave of CMs is a more significant difference maker in obtaining extra stars. The paltry sums of GP that can be gained be "fluffing" the bottom end of your roster isn't all that significant.

    As far as 300k being a 25% difference when your screenshot indicates you have a GP of 3.1M, can you show your work?

    And finally, if you've got 3.1M GP and been playing this game for three years,then, um, well, not sure what to say there outside of me being really really confused why you would have 100s of extra purple mats and credits laying around. I have 3.1M GP too, been playing for just short of two years, and am chronically short on both, though I will admit that I do not level toons for the mere sake of leveling them. I'd rather spend 3.91 M credits on a nice mod and have it roll to 10 speed.

    And brief fact check - the mod store was released around the summer of 2016, I believe prior to the first TB, which was released shortly after CLS, which was August of 2016. So, anyone claiming they haven't had anything to spend money on so they just "HAD TO LEVEL THOSE CHARACTERS" chose not to spend money on arguably the most important aspect of the game.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    He is level 85 because instead of buying mods, you leveled your characters. A few dozen of my characters are level 50 or below because I don't have the credits to spare for something that gains me nothing outside of deployment scores and self-satisfaction of a higher GP.

    You can be salty all you want, but the truth is that the other guy spent his resources more wisely than you did, and that's got nothing to do with CG, everything to do with what you decided to do with your roster.

    There not really any truth to your statement for those of us at the high end of GP who have been playing the game since launch. We likely already leveled all of our trash long ago when it was needed to help for TB release. You know... that game mode for which GP was invented. The one that was billed as "now every upgrade counts".

    Mods could not be obtained for credits until long after that time.

    Mods could be obtained for credits. The change removed the crystal mods, and added some for ship credits, but before that change there had long been some mods in the mod store that were priced in credits.

    Hmm I don't remember that. There certainly weren't any GOOD mods with speed secondaries offered for credit OR at least not enough of them that it would ever have required significant credit resources to obtain them.

    Maybe you weren’t looking. I got a lot of my best mods that way.

    I looked at the mod shop every reset. Prior to them improving it with ship currency/credits/frequent speed secondaries, good mods that did not sell for crystals were VERY rare. I'm pretty sure most people would agree with me on this.

  • And brief fact check - the mod store was released around the summer of 2016, I believe prior to the first TB, which was released shortly after CLS, which was August of 2016. So, anyone claiming they haven't had anything to spend money on so they just "HAD TO LEVEL THOSE CHARACTERS" chose not to spend money on arguably the most important aspect of the game.


    I'm gonna fact check your fact check. The GOOD mod store that actually has things worth buying for credits was released with the Sith Raid in March of this year. The old mod store had something once in a blue moon. Once in a blue moon was not negatively impacting anyones credit flow who was already at end game.

    In fact, farming mods from the challenges was far more effective during that time (and we all know how effective that was...)

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/160764/content-update-3-1-2018#latest

  • The "I bumped my GP for my guild for TB" argument is poor. If you wanted to help your guild out with TB, you would have invested in four strong squads that can get full CM waves regardless of your platoon situation. The final wave of CMs is a more significant difference maker in obtaining extra stars. The paltry sums of GP that can be gained be "fluffing" the bottom end of your roster isn't all that significant.

    Your argument is what is poor because you are not at the same place in the game as many veteran players.
    Many of us who have been playing for 3 years have been at the end game for a long time. I was clearing all combat waves more or less from day one of TB. Fluffing was not done at the expense of any combat squads, or arena or anything else. Fluffing was done specifically for deployment and platoons, and that fluff is not Insignificant. I have 500kgp in fluffed trash toons that are level 85/g8.. If my whole guild had fluffed (which many did) that's 25M in extra GP for use in deployment. How many times has a guild missed out on an extra star by 1-2m? That's just 2-4 guys fluffing.

    And finally, if you've got 3.1M GP and been playing this game for three years,then, um, well, not sure what to say there outside of me being really really confused why you would have 100s of extra purple mats and credits laying around. I have 3.1M GP too, been playing for just short of two years, and am chronically short on both, though I will admit that I do not level toons for the mere sake of leveling them. I'd rather spend 3.91 M credits on a nice mod and have it roll to 10 speed.


    Once you hit end game, you will be short on neither. I always have over 100M credits and have thousands of purples. Quite simply once you have everyone leveled and their abilities all up to the point of omegas, you gain far more purple mats than you would ever need to spend on new toons. Same with credits.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    I wish I was able to give out some of my redundant credits piling up to the lean fanatics. I have no use for them anymore.
  • Many of us who have been playing for 3 years have been at the end game for a long time. I was clearing all combat waves more or less from day one of TB. Fluffing was not done at the expense of any combat squads, or arena or anything else. Fluffing was done specifically for deployment and platoons, and that fluff is not Insignificant. I have 500kgp in fluffed trash toons that are level 85/g8.. If my whole guild had fluffed (which many did) ...

    So if you're end game, have several super strong teams for TB, and have so many credits and mats sitting around with your entire roster updated to 85/g8......what kind of mystical opponent are you expecting to face that has 3.1m gp and no fluff? As you yourself pointed out, most players at your point in the game are in the same boat as you. Meaning most of your GA opponents are going to be just as fluffed as you.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    I think the op post is misread often. He's not exactly faulting the player but the system and the title question is pretty legit.

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    People are responding to the use of the word sandbagging because it suggests that the player is intentionally trying to get an unfair advantage when that’s obviously false (since the player made the decision not to level these characters long before the game mode existed). If he’s not faulting the player he should have worded his post differently.

    Ok. Will you be sandbagging going from here? Will it be the new normal?

    But why is smart development considered sandbagging?

    If I focus my future development the way I have since TW was introduced, is that sandbagging?

    I focus on useful teams and toons and look for unique combinations. I am happy when a toon or team has multiple uses and look really hard on choices where a toon/team is not going to be useful outside of a particular place.

    What's smart about your development that my development lacks? As you already know there's zero amount of resource reallocation in what I did.

    It's by definition sandbagging, you lower your competetive rating below your capability in order for some advantage or profit.

    But hey I'll be the happy sandbagger too as long as these are the cards we have to play it.

    I suggest you look up sandbagging and get back to us..... It doesn't mean what you think it does.....

    Then our suggestions are mutual. Back at you.

    piwgwumtspci.jpg

    Wouldn't "underperform" mean you throw a match or I guess not spend resources in this game?

    I dont think anyone is advocating not spending, just spending wisely and with intent.

    Actually all you have been saying is don't spend. Again lvling toons to 85 and gear lvl 7 cost nothing that would prevent you from lvling your top toons , so you are saying literally dont spend all your excess creds , mats, and gear. Idk how you can say your not saying that.

    so spending $10 and $20, but leaving my change in a jar is not spending?

    What i have said is spend wisely. Use the limited resources you have in the most effective way possible.

    You are still missing it. Or just choosing not to acknowledge it. The point has nothing to do with wise spending. Keeping a stack of 500 purple mats instead of spending them on lower toons does absolutely nothing to inhibit investment in strong teams.

    Your point is invalid to anyone that has been playing long enough to just naturally have more resources than toons to spend them on.

    I'm not missing anything, you said I have been saying "dont spend". I have and I dont think anyone has said that.

    The advice always given is to manage resources, invest wisely and to not feel "forced" to do anything.

    to invest my mat, i need to gear my toons, to gear my toons i need to level them. that is more of an investment than just the mats. credits are always as close to a premium currency as you can get. keeping those at a good level to be able to level up mods to check for slicing, buy new mods and possible buy stuff in the weekly shipment is all important.

    There are enough credits in the game to level every toon, star every toon, and still buy every decent speed secondary mod in the store. "Management" is invalid after you reach that point. There is nothing inherently wise about hoarding gear, mats, and creds unless your goal is to minimize GP.

    CG made it clear with paper zombie that not gearing toons should not be a goal.

    I have played for 3 years and i still do not have enough credits to mod and level every toon.

    Your point is invalid. Or rather, your whining is invalid.
  • Eddiemundie
    1058 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    Question: how many +15 speed mods do u have? How many +100 offense mods do u have? What about 7% potency/tenacity mods? Are you able to switch to an entirely different god tier mod set to beat the new meta whenever it arises? Are you able to mod 15 synergistic teams with full decent mod sets that give at least +100 speed overall?

    If you have 100m credits sitting around and u have been leveling all your toons to lvl85, i'd think you answer to the above would be <10 and no.
  • dvvjp7zb2dye.jpg
    Throughout my Grand Arena, dozens of level 1s is common place. (One player has 70 level 1 toons) This is not "focus," this is sandbagging. Now, while the devs have clearly stated that they did not want to give players a competitive advantage to not level/ gear toons (Paper Zombie), they went out of their way to create an event which gives significant competitive advantages to having unleveled and ungeared toons.
    StarSon wrote: »
    So, your entire roster is level 85 g7?

    I've been playing for 3 years. I'm at the point where I can level grey mods just to see. Unfortunately, I cant unlevel my useless toons. Now, your answer seems to be that I should have predicted GA 3 years ago and planned ahead.
    I’ve been playing for 1 year and I have 39 level 1 characters. This is for the combined reason that a LOT of marquee characters have dropped while I’ve been playing, there are characters I only farm in stores for platoons in territory battles, and there are some I haven’t gotten to yet because I’m focusing on other teams. Now, you could say that I should not have these characters at all if I don’t plan to use them outside of platoons, but most of my level 1 characters are from stores that never change characters, so once I got the characters I wanted out of them, I started farming the rest for platoons. In grand arena, starring such characters actively gives me a disadvantage, since you get over 2000 GP for every 7 star. If I was actually trying to sandbag as you accuse, then I would just leave all these characters unlocked, thus artificially lowering my power rating by up to 78k. Or I could choose to sandbag by removing mods on all but the teams I plan to use in grand arena. But I didn’t do either of those things. And while lower gear and credits are universally plentiful for you, I still need to manage resources. So the fact that I have a bunch of level 1 characters for me really does indicate that I’m trying to focus on getting more characters to level 85 gear 12, rather than anything nefarious.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    I think the op post is misread often. He's not exactly faulting the player but the system and the title question is pretty legit.

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    People are responding to the use of the word sandbagging because it suggests that the player is intentionally trying to get an unfair advantage when that’s obviously false (since the player made the decision not to level these characters long before the game mode existed). If he’s not faulting the player he should have worded his post differently.

    Ok. Will you be sandbagging going from here? Will it be the new normal?

    But why is smart development considered sandbagging?

    If I focus my future development the way I have since TW was introduced, is that sandbagging?

    I focus on useful teams and toons and look for unique combinations. I am happy when a toon or team has multiple uses and look really hard on choices where a toon/team is not going to be useful outside of a particular place.

    What's smart about your development that my development lacks? As you already know there's zero amount of resource reallocation in what I did.

    It's by definition sandbagging, you lower your competetive rating below your capability in order for some advantage or profit.

    But hey I'll be the happy sandbagger too as long as these are the cards we have to play it.

    I suggest you look up sandbagging and get back to us..... It doesn't mean what you think it does.....

    Then our suggestions are mutual. Back at you.

    piwgwumtspci.jpg

    Wouldn't "underperform" mean you throw a match or I guess not spend resources in this game?

    I dont think anyone is advocating not spending, just spending wisely and with intent.

    Actually all you have been saying is don't spend. Again lvling toons to 85 and gear lvl 7 cost nothing that would prevent you from lvling your top toons , so you are saying literally dont spend all your excess creds , mats, and gear. Idk how you can say your not saying that.

    so spending $10 and $20, but leaving my change in a jar is not spending?

    What i have said is spend wisely. Use the limited resources you have in the most effective way possible.

    You are still missing it. Or just choosing not to acknowledge it. The point has nothing to do with wise spending. Keeping a stack of 500 purple mats instead of spending them on lower toons does absolutely nothing to inhibit investment in strong teams.

    Your point is invalid to anyone that has been playing long enough to just naturally have more resources than toons to spend them on.

    I'm not missing anything, you said I have been saying "dont spend". I have and I dont think anyone has said that.

    The advice always given is to manage resources, invest wisely and to not feel "forced" to do anything.

    to invest my mat, i need to gear my toons, to gear my toons i need to level them. that is more of an investment than just the mats. credits are always as close to a premium currency as you can get. keeping those at a good level to be able to level up mods to check for slicing, buy new mods and possible buy stuff in the weekly shipment is all important.

    There are enough credits in the game to level every toon, star every toon, and still buy every decent speed secondary mod in the store. "Management" is invalid after you reach that point. There is nothing inherently wise about hoarding gear, mats, and creds unless your goal is to minimize GP.

    CG made it clear with paper zombie that not gearing toons should not be a goal.

    I have played for 3 years and i still do not have enough credits to mod and level every toon.

    Your point is invalid. Or rather, your whining is invalid.

    This. So much this. I've been playing since December 2015. I get perfect combats in both TB. I have over 50 g12. I currently have 40M credits, but a few dozen characters are still not 85, and I can't buy "every speed secondary" in the shop, because I need to keep credits at the ready for new stuff.
  • https://swgoh.gg/p/671987929/characters/

    Am I (starting to) sandbag? I'd love to gear and lvl up all my toons but I dont put money into cell phone games but also accept that tons of people will. I'll never get top 10 arena so my crystal count will never be good enough to spend on toons or gear.

    Oh well..sandbag it up I say
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    I think the op post is misread often. He's not exactly faulting the player but the system and the title question is pretty legit.

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    People are responding to the use of the word sandbagging because it suggests that the player is intentionally trying to get an unfair advantage when that’s obviously false (since the player made the decision not to level these characters long before the game mode existed). If he’s not faulting the player he should have worded his post differently.

    Ok. Will you be sandbagging going from here? Will it be the new normal?

    But why is smart development considered sandbagging?

    If I focus my future development the way I have since TW was introduced, is that sandbagging?

    I focus on useful teams and toons and look for unique combinations. I am happy when a toon or team has multiple uses and look really hard on choices where a toon/team is not going to be useful outside of a particular place.

    What's smart about your development that my development lacks? As you already know there's zero amount of resource reallocation in what I did.

    It's by definition sandbagging, you lower your competetive rating below your capability in order for some advantage or profit.

    But hey I'll be the happy sandbagger too as long as these are the cards we have to play it.

    I suggest you look up sandbagging and get back to us..... It doesn't mean what you think it does.....

    Then our suggestions are mutual. Back at you.

    piwgwumtspci.jpg

    Wouldn't "underperform" mean you throw a match or I guess not spend resources in this game?

    I dont think anyone is advocating not spending, just spending wisely and with intent.

    Actually all you have been saying is don't spend. Again lvling toons to 85 and gear lvl 7 cost nothing that would prevent you from lvling your top toons , so you are saying literally dont spend all your excess creds , mats, and gear. Idk how you can say your not saying that.

    so spending $10 and $20, but leaving my change in a jar is not spending?

    What i have said is spend wisely. Use the limited resources you have in the most effective way possible.

    You are still missing it. Or just choosing not to acknowledge it. The point has nothing to do with wise spending. Keeping a stack of 500 purple mats instead of spending them on lower toons does absolutely nothing to inhibit investment in strong teams.

    Your point is invalid to anyone that has been playing long enough to just naturally have more resources than toons to spend them on.

    I'm not missing anything, you said I have been saying "dont spend". I have and I dont think anyone has said that.

    The advice always given is to manage resources, invest wisely and to not feel "forced" to do anything.

    to invest my mat, i need to gear my toons, to gear my toons i need to level them. that is more of an investment than just the mats. credits are always as close to a premium currency as you can get. keeping those at a good level to be able to level up mods to check for slicing, buy new mods and possible buy stuff in the weekly shipment is all important.

    There are enough credits in the game to level every toon, star every toon, and still buy every decent speed secondary mod in the store. "Management" is invalid after you reach that point. There is nothing inherently wise about hoarding gear, mats, and creds unless your goal is to minimize GP.

    CG made it clear with paper zombie that not gearing toons should not be a goal.

    I have played for 3 years and i still do not have enough credits to mod and level every toon.

    Your point is invalid. Or rather, your whining is invalid.

    This. So much this. I've been playing since December 2015. I get perfect combats in both TB. I have over 50 g12. I currently have 40M credits, but a few dozen characters are still not 85, and I can't buy "every speed secondary" in the shop, because I need to keep credits at the ready for new stuff.

    It's compounded by the fact that if you actively did mod farming during mods 1.0, u would have spent twice the amount per mod, and many times that 3.9m credits mod turns out to be trash after spending another 200k on it. I'm pretty sure i've spent close to a billion credits on mods by now, and though alot has been wasted, it's still overall more impactful to the roster that just leveling toons aimlessly.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    I think the op post is misread often. He's not exactly faulting the player but the system and the title question is pretty legit.

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    People are responding to the use of the word sandbagging because it suggests that the player is intentionally trying to get an unfair advantage when that’s obviously false (since the player made the decision not to level these characters long before the game mode existed). If he’s not faulting the player he should have worded his post differently.

    Ok. Will you be sandbagging going from here? Will it be the new normal?

    But why is smart development considered sandbagging?

    If I focus my future development the way I have since TW was introduced, is that sandbagging?

    I focus on useful teams and toons and look for unique combinations. I am happy when a toon or team has multiple uses and look really hard on choices where a toon/team is not going to be useful outside of a particular place.

    What's smart about your development that my development lacks? As you already know there's zero amount of resource reallocation in what I did.

    It's by definition sandbagging, you lower your competetive rating below your capability in order for some advantage or profit.

    But hey I'll be the happy sandbagger too as long as these are the cards we have to play it.

    I suggest you look up sandbagging and get back to us..... It doesn't mean what you think it does.....

    Then our suggestions are mutual. Back at you.

    piwgwumtspci.jpg

    Wouldn't "underperform" mean you throw a match or I guess not spend resources in this game?

    I dont think anyone is advocating not spending, just spending wisely and with intent.

    Actually all you have been saying is don't spend. Again lvling toons to 85 and gear lvl 7 cost nothing that would prevent you from lvling your top toons , so you are saying literally dont spend all your excess creds , mats, and gear. Idk how you can say your not saying that.

    so spending $10 and $20, but leaving my change in a jar is not spending?

    What i have said is spend wisely. Use the limited resources you have in the most effective way possible.

    You are still missing it. Or just choosing not to acknowledge it. The point has nothing to do with wise spending. Keeping a stack of 500 purple mats instead of spending them on lower toons does absolutely nothing to inhibit investment in strong teams.

    Your point is invalid to anyone that has been playing long enough to just naturally have more resources than toons to spend them on.

    I'm not missing anything, you said I have been saying "dont spend". I have and I dont think anyone has said that.

    The advice always given is to manage resources, invest wisely and to not feel "forced" to do anything.

    to invest my mat, i need to gear my toons, to gear my toons i need to level them. that is more of an investment than just the mats. credits are always as close to a premium currency as you can get. keeping those at a good level to be able to level up mods to check for slicing, buy new mods and possible buy stuff in the weekly shipment is all important.

    There are enough credits in the game to level every toon, star every toon, and still buy every decent speed secondary mod in the store. "Management" is invalid after you reach that point. There is nothing inherently wise about hoarding gear, mats, and creds unless your goal is to minimize GP.

    CG made it clear with paper zombie that not gearing toons should not be a goal.

    I have played for 3 years and i still do not have enough credits to mod and level every toon.

    Your point is invalid. Or rather, your whining is invalid.

    This. So much this. I've been playing since December 2015. I get perfect combats in both TB. I have over 50 g12. I currently have 40M credits, but a few dozen characters are still not 85, and I can't buy "every speed secondary" in the shop, because I need to keep credits at the ready for new stuff.

    It's compounded by the fact that if you actively did mod farming during mods 1.0, u would have spent twice the amount per mod, and many times that 3.9m credits mod turns out to be trash after spending another 200k on it. I'm pretty sure i've spent close to a billion credits on mods by now, and though alot has been wasted, it's still overall more impactful to the roster that just leveling toons aimlessly.

    This is true. I have spent untold 100s of millions of credits and ship currency on mods in the last 2+ years. Many ended up being garbage, some were decent and about 20 or so became god mods.

    If you want to improve your roster without moving your GP, this is how you do it.
  • BrtStlnd wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    I think the op post is misread often. He's not exactly faulting the player but the system and the title question is pretty legit.

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    People are responding to the use of the word sandbagging because it suggests that the player is intentionally trying to get an unfair advantage when that’s obviously false (since the player made the decision not to level these characters long before the game mode existed). If he’s not faulting the player he should have worded his post differently.

    Ok. Will you be sandbagging going from here? Will it be the new normal?

    But why is smart development considered sandbagging?

    If I focus my future development the way I have since TW was introduced, is that sandbagging?

    I focus on useful teams and toons and look for unique combinations. I am happy when a toon or team has multiple uses and look really hard on choices where a toon/team is not going to be useful outside of a particular place.

    What's smart about your development that my development lacks? As you already know there's zero amount of resource reallocation in what I did.

    It's by definition sandbagging, you lower your competetive rating below your capability in order for some advantage or profit.

    But hey I'll be the happy sandbagger too as long as these are the cards we have to play it.

    I suggest you look up sandbagging and get back to us..... It doesn't mean what you think it does.....

    Then our suggestions are mutual. Back at you.

    piwgwumtspci.jpg

    Wouldn't "underperform" mean you throw a match or I guess not spend resources in this game?

    I dont think anyone is advocating not spending, just spending wisely and with intent.

    Actually all you have been saying is don't spend. Again lvling toons to 85 and gear lvl 7 cost nothing that would prevent you from lvling your top toons , so you are saying literally dont spend all your excess creds , mats, and gear. Idk how you can say your not saying that.

    so spending $10 and $20, but leaving my change in a jar is not spending?

    What i have said is spend wisely. Use the limited resources you have in the most effective way possible.

    You are still missing it. Or just choosing not to acknowledge it. The point has nothing to do with wise spending. Keeping a stack of 500 purple mats instead of spending them on lower toons does absolutely nothing to inhibit investment in strong teams.

    Your point is invalid to anyone that has been playing long enough to just naturally have more resources than toons to spend them on.

    I'm not missing anything, you said I have been saying "dont spend". I have and I dont think anyone has said that.

    The advice always given is to manage resources, invest wisely and to not feel "forced" to do anything.

    to invest my mat, i need to gear my toons, to gear my toons i need to level them. that is more of an investment than just the mats. credits are always as close to a premium currency as you can get. keeping those at a good level to be able to level up mods to check for slicing, buy new mods and possible buy stuff in the weekly shipment is all important.

    There are enough credits in the game to level every toon, star every toon, and still buy every decent speed secondary mod in the store. "Management" is invalid after you reach that point. There is nothing inherently wise about hoarding gear, mats, and creds unless your goal is to minimize GP.

    CG made it clear with paper zombie that not gearing toons should not be a goal.

    I have played for 3 years and i still do not have enough credits to mod and level every toon.

    Your point is invalid. Or rather, your whining is invalid.

    This. So much this. I've been playing since December 2015. I get perfect combats in both TB. I have over 50 g12. I currently have 40M credits, but a few dozen characters are still not 85, and I can't buy "every speed secondary" in the shop, because I need to keep credits at the ready for new stuff.

    It's compounded by the fact that if you actively did mod farming during mods 1.0, u would have spent twice the amount per mod, and many times that 3.9m credits mod turns out to be trash after spending another 200k on it. I'm pretty sure i've spent close to a billion credits on mods by now, and though alot has been wasted, it's still overall more impactful to the roster that just leveling toons aimlessly.

    This is true. I have spent untold 100s of millions of credits and ship currency on mods in the last 2+ years. Many ended up being garbage, some were decent and about 20 or so became god mods.

    If you want to improve your roster without moving your GP, this is how you do it.

    Yea and even the garbage gives you options. Sometimes you uncover treasure 2 years later, like a (5) offense secondary which was previously garbage because it only has 3 speed.
  • @cannonfodder_iv I think you missed the point. Maybe the relevant time period is closer to 3 years but so what. Eventually you get to the point where you have all the purple mats, or credits that you will ever need. My Ugnaught is level 85 not because of bad resource management. He is level 85 because I had over 100million credits. I'm salty because now I'm matched up with a player with 71 level 1, G1 toons. While we both have the same overall GP, his active GP is a good 300k higher than mine. A 300k difference is roughly a 25% advantage.

    Question: how many +15 speed mods do u have? How many +100 offense mods do u have? What about 7% potency/tenacity mods? Are you able to switch to an entirely different god tier mod set to beat the new meta whenever it arises? Are you able to mod 15 synergistic teams with full decent mod sets that give at least +100 speed overall?

    If you have 100m credits sitting around and u have been leveling all your toons to lvl85, i'd think you answer to the above would be <10 and no.

    You do realize that slicing mats and credits are different things right?
  • Your argument is what is poor because you are not at the same place in the game as many veteran players.
    Many of us who have been playing for 3 years have been at the end game for a long time. I was clearing all combat waves more or less from day one of TB. Fluffing was not done at the expense of any combat squads, or arena or anything else. Fluffing was done specifically for deployment and platoons, and that fluff is not Insignificant. I have 500kgp in fluffed trash toons that are level 85/g8.. If my whole guild had fluffed (which many did) that's 25M in extra GP for use in deployment. How many times has a guild missed out on an extra star by 1-2m? That's just 2-4 guys fluffing.

    @7AnimalMother I have no doubt you are an end game player. You didn't post a screen shot of a 3.1M GP player and whine about "underdeveloped toons". Nor do I see you complaining about "Sandbagging" players. Clearly anyone that was getting full CMs when TB was launched was rightly fluffing their GP. I would imagine at this point they have taken those "fluffed" toons forward to be part of viable teams, mitigating the impact in GA somewhat. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

    And yes, I understand that for a certain class of player (started playing at a certain time), there was a lull in available characters that enabled resource collection to overtake the ability to spend those resources. My contention is that the OP is not in this class of player at 3.1M GP, and if he IS, then he's got nobody to blame for having such a low GP than himself - I guess I would be inexplicably salty too.

    As far as "Functional GP" goes. Let's say you need to set six defenses plus a fleet. You need six counters plus a fleet - let's call it eight considering you might lose on offense. That's a total of 15 squads (assuming some overlap with pilots), at roughly 100k per squad, that's 1.5M in character GP - anything below that is pretty much meaningless - fluff or not fluff - it's not likely to get used. You either have the counters and the mods to take out your opponent or you don't.

    If you've been playing this game for 2+ years and haven't figured out you need "squads" and not "toons", then you've got a lot in common with Anakin on Mustafar (from Kenobi's perspective anyway)...




  • @7AnimalMother I have no doubt you are an end game player. You didn't post a screen shot of a 3.1M GP player and whine about "underdeveloped toons". Nor do I see you complaining about "Sandbagging" players. Clearly anyone that was getting full CMs when TB was launched was rightly fluffing their GP. I would imagine at this point they have taken those "fluffed" toons forward to be part of viable teams, mitigating the impact in GA somewhat. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

    And yes, I understand that for a certain class of player (started playing at a certain time), there was a lull in available characters that enabled resource collection to overtake the ability to spend those resources. My contention is that the OP is not in this class of player at 3.1M GP, and if he IS, then he's got nobody to blame for having such a low GP than himself - I guess I would be inexplicably salty too.

    As far as "Functional GP" goes. Let's say you need to set six defenses plus a fleet. You need six counters plus a fleet - let's call it eight considering you might lose on offense. That's a total of 15 squads (assuming some overlap with pilots), at roughly 100k per squad, that's 1.5M in character GP - anything below that is pretty much meaningless - fluff or not fluff - it's not likely to get used. You either have the counters and the mods to take out your opponent or you don't.

    If you've been playing this game for 2+ years and haven't figured out you need "squads" and not "toons", then you've got a lot in common with Anakin on Mustafar (from Kenobi's perspective anyway)...


    @cannonfodder_iv, in the 2nd paragraph, you claim my GP is too low. In the 3rd paragraph, you claim my GP is too high. You do realize that those points are mutually exclusive?
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