So...it's ok to trivialize AAT but doing half the phase in P3 HSTR is not? where is the infinite loop mechanic, traya takes a turn she just takes a while, most of the time the team dies around t7 untill enrage left on traya, with less then 50% of the HP, I'm not saying it shouldn't be nerfed, just saying perhaps you can find some sort of balace between 50% of P3 and the intention of damage willed for the team
So...it's ok to trivialize AAT but doing half the phase in P3 HSTR is not? where is the infinite loop mechanic, traya takes a turn she just takes a while, most of the time the team dies around t7 untill enrage left on traya, with less then 50% of the HP, I'm not saying it shouldn't be nerfed, just saying perhaps you can find some sort of balace between 50% of P3 and the intention of damage willed for the team
It would be nice for them to find a happy medium where this team still does good damage in p3 but can't solo it. I'm so tired of the rng fest that is chex mix.
I don't see a fix going in for ABC team or any others that can auto for HAAT. Why? Because people used the mechanics of the game to become successful. Sith raid has never worked the way it was originally intended. They should applaud people for using game mechanics to become successful instead of changing the rules to make your community less successful. To cross universes, CG isn't Kirk and this isn't the kobayashi maru.
Everyone saying keep it for haat is really saying “keep it for arena/tw/GA not the haat.
Haats been a joke for a while now...
Think about TW now...for elite guilds 50 revans 50 trayas 50 finns clear then ships. In 4 months there wont be a TW that wont be clear vs clear no real strategy coming soon to a TW/GA/arena near you .....
Guess it was bound to happen anyway....someone will optimize everything everytime anyway....
I give the servers 6mo after jedi luke hits.... unless 9 or the new tv shows give us something to work with... man i wish they would go into legends territory would give me hope for the future
Okay y’all, I know your mad because you suspect what will happen, you suspect the worst.
But like I said in the first place, let’s not complain against the devs, not on this thread. I’m seeing some complaining here, let’s keep it down. This is a thread about not nerfing Finn, not how time after time they nerf someone or what not.
Go start a thread on that if you want, this ones only trying to find likeminded people who are giving the devs our answer on what we want.
No Finn nerf! Please!
I hope they don't change Finn's zeta lead......we now have 11 Resistance characters, enough for 2 full teams, and JTR is the only other good leader.....Poe's leader isn't really used. Weakening the only other viable leader for a faction of this size wouldn't be a good move. If P3 of the Sith Raid is broken, then make an adjust to the Traya raid boss to account for that rather than changing Finn across the entire game.
For the love of all that is Star Wars, keep your hands off Finn! I want to continue using him and Threepio to solo the AAT. That was a lot more fun than I've had playing this game for quite some time. Either modify raid Traya, or simply let it be. So what if P3 is no longer frustrating and tedious? You made a lot of money with Threepio. Let us enjoy the fruits of our labours. Hands off Finn!
No please no don't nerf Finn. He was my first zeta and I still use him in Grand arena and territory wars and territory battles. He's such a good versatile lead and it would really be atrocious if they nerfed his lead.
Just give traya more tenacity simple fix. This will not make the raid any harder for the teams we were using before on the raid and it will stop the loop with Finn, this way no toon gets nerfed and the raid isn't harder than before
I don't get it, both Finn and Traya worked just fine before that bumbling droid showed up... Now since he broke stuff they are gonna either nerf the beloved Finn, which everyone has used as and loved since he's been out, or change Traya in some way that it'll make the other already rng heavy p3 teams even harder to use.
So why not just fix that dang droid? He's the one causing all the problems.
#Finn'sLifeMatters
First of all a bit of context why I want the mechanics of the team to remain.
I was one of the first to post the screenshot of P3 HSTR (27M with Leia)
HSTR has been released for 9 months and we finally have a team that can auto a phase. In comparison to HAAT, P3 could have been siloed with Thrawn and Jyn after 8 months.
With respect to Rancor, the whole raid could have been autoed after 8 months with the introduction of Jyn, Cassian, Baze and Bistan. To be fair, CLS made it trivial for everyone after 15 months.
So, my first argument is that single phase being able to put on auto after 9 months is not new.
Now, instead of increasing tenacity of Traya, or altering Finn lead, why not play with Traya’s defense, so that you require heavily geared toons to make the mechanics works. The new mechanics could trigger after 50 hits on toppled Traya, reset at each topple, to avoid altering the mechanics of the other teams.
High geared toons have much more defense penetration than low level so they could still deal enough damage to complete the phase before the whole raid is ended by the other guildmates.
Moreover, it would still bein the spirit of the game to incentivize players to gear characters to get better score. But give us some break while raiding.
Did anyone at CG ever try ChexMix (with Chewie or Chirrut) in P3? In order to get a decent score I restart about 20 to 30 times and this is seriously NOT fun. NS dearhstorm is also Extremely hard to pull off.
Lastly, zFinn was my 3rd zeta in January 2017, reason why it has a special place in my collection.
Good point.
I can't accept that Sith raid is a sort of religious taboo for them: no solo allowed, no way to shorten the pain and increase the funny allowed..
For the love of all that is Star Wars, keep your hands off Finn! I want to continue using him and Threepio to solo the AAT. That was a lot more fun than I've had playing this game for quite some time. Either modify raid Traya, or simply let it be. So what if P3 is no longer frustrating and tedious? You made a lot of money with Threepio. Let us enjoy the fruits of our labours. Hands off Finn!
Meh...lot of people spent a lot of money building an Aurra P3 team so they could Use NS in P4...the second people get close to having those teams.... you have one person soloing the thing (it happens..i get it) But from the company standpoint they sell a character for P3 and while people are still spending on it....this comes along...not good business.
(please understand..I don't care what they do or do not do concerning HSTR...my primary concern is finn in arena TW GA...we are already kinda close to setting defenses just for banners because nothing holds exept revan/traya these days.... throw another 50 zfinn teams.... every TW every GA will be double clears (for the most part)....and arena....ewww..
But yes 100% Finns zeta should not be nerfed....3PO should just have expose changed to something else... knowing the team they will replace expose with deathmark...lol J/K
1) Don't touch Finn. His Z is still very important for many players in HAAT, in TB and of course in TW and GA.
2) I can't understand why Sith Raid is a sort of religious taboo for Devs. No solo allowed .... it must continue to annoy the players forever....
3) The problem is not that some people is smart and quickly learn how to use new mechanics to maximize the results... The problem is you!
You are the problem... every time a new shiny character comes to the game the is a "high risk" of a fast nerf... how is it possible that each time you don't test enough the interactions?
Of course players want to use a new character like 3PO to destroy HSTR!
And you didn't test that!
Do something help to destroy HSTR? Nerf!
Do something help to beat Revan, your beloved thousand dollars jewel? Nerf!
Hey everyone,
Mr Crumb just posted about possibly "changing" Finn's lead or Traya's tenacity. I would like it better to change Traya, although that’s just my opinion.
If they change Finn, then he won’t probably work well in the HAAT.
I know many veteran players don’t care much for the HAAT anymore, but their are many players who do, including me. I would absolutely love it if they didn’t change Finn. Keep his zeta awesome. @CG_SBCrumb said that they’ll change whatever the player base and the game would want. Let’s hope that’s true.
If that’s true, let’s all get together as a community as those who want ZFinn to stay the way he is and voice our desire in that aspect. Please comment below and voice whether you’d like that.
I do not want this to be a place of complaint against the devs. And please no arguing on this thread. If any feel the urge to prove that they’re right, take a deep breath and let it go.
you know what we want? raid to stay this way... who in the world cares anymore about hstr amirite?
1. Remove the "irresistable" keyword from the game.
2. Implement diminishing returns on all debuffs (which is most simply done by tenacity stacking on debuff, but could also be based on how many debuffs are present). Reset (completely or partly) on taking a turn or debuffs expiring.
That would solve a lot of balancing problems. So many problems in the Sith raid stems from the decision to implement some convoluted version of anti-debuff/diminishing returns instead of doing the mechanics properly.
Giving traya stacking tenacity per hit (1% perhaps) when toppled would sort the issue, whilst not affecting the expose mechanics of JTR (expose chance dependant on crits). Sure people may try to find a similar loop using rebels under a JTR leader but 10% TM gain per expose seems too minimal to be able to create a new loop.
Like others have said though, this raid is not new anymore, it's about time we had some teams that can solo phases or at least do big chunks of damage. It's not 'easy' by any means to obtain C3PO, and by the next time he comes around and people have farmed up specifically for this exploit, there will be other new toons (Malak or Darth Revan) who will probably be proudly soloing phases anyway. These zFinn HSTR teams should still be an effective option for those privileged enough to have the right toons.
I do not currently have a zeta on Finn, but was planning to do his next, for use in GA and TW (this was planned before this exploit was found). Resistance are my favourite faction, nerfing Finn's zeta will really reduce the viability and versatility of the faction and he will become just another toon 'needed for an event'. Help me keep the dream alive of my 2 offensive resistance teams, JTR, R2, BB, 3PO & Nest for Revan and Finn with humans for Traya.
if the developers want to nerf something could you please stop nerfing the sith raid and nerf grand arena into oblivion so we dont have to play it after december?
it is getting quite old seeing the how these nerfs come about
Well, we have very old toon which working just fine (Finn) and newly introduced toon which abilities wasn't tested enough. Combined, they have unexpected behavior on EVERY raid boss which can be toppled. Some simple conclusions:
1. "Fixing" Traya, in fact, doesn't solve anything. There is another raid bosses and probably will be other in the future which will be affected if there will be no specific countermeasures. Changing every boss mechanics to counter any specific tricks looks like very counterproductive.
2. "Fixing" Finn? Huh, what? He is fine as he is now - except this "semi-endless loop" with C3PO. Any changes to him will probably hits (in negative way, of course) many other game activities and all people who doesn't have C3PO.
3. Fixing C3PO looks like the most logical solution. First, it is him who is the reason of this - so why change other's mechanics? Second, I really doubt that this exploit was expected by all people who spent resources to get him, so remove it shouldn't hit player's expectations. I even doubt that most people expected him to be a top toon at all. So, just change the way C3PO abilities interact with raid bosses only.
Well, we have very old toon which working just fine (Finn) and newly introduced toon which abilities wasn't tested enough. Combined, they have unexpected behavior on EVERY raid boss which can be toppled. Some simple conclusions:
1. "Fixing" Traya, in fact, doesn't solve anything. There is another raid bosses and probably will be other in the future which will be affected if there will be no specific countermeasures. Changing every boss mechanics to counter any specific tricks looks like very counterproductive.
2. "Fixing" Finn? Huh, what? He is fine as he is now - except this "semi-endless loop" with C3PO. Any changes to him will probably hits (in negative way, of course) many other game activities and all people who doesn't have C3PO.
3. Fixing C3PO looks like the most logical solution. First, it is him who is the reason of this - so why change other's mechanics? Second, I really doubt that this exploit was expected by all people who spent resources to get him, so remove it shouldn't hit player's expectations. I even doubt that most people expected him to be a top toon at all. So, just change the way C3PO abilities interact with raid bosses only.
You remember the critolyte team right. Instead of fixing the new toon who's kit introduced the loop (traya), they nerfed an old toon in acolyte.
I dig it. I also love my Finn zeta. I think Sith raid is different for them. This is like their baby. Especially p3. Once We saw this squad beat revan and do major damage in p3 we all knew a change was coming.
I love your idea. I just think CG doesn’t have the time to do that. Take that how you want- laziness, not caring, not enough man power etc...
Cg very much enjoys quick fixes or spinning old content to newer content.
I also believe they have a certain team in my mind for p3. That will be paid for toons.
It think it's kind of inevitable that zFinn will be changed. As many have already referenced NSAcolyte this seems to be the way the devs work and you know what, it's their game, their rules BUT!! Nerfing Finn will suck and be a bad idea in my opinion and my reasons are thus:
1. New/mid game players are going to take the hit - those that can't even dream of beating HSith yet are going to be punished. zFinn works great for those who don't have JTR in raids, arena and other game modes. For some this is their go too team, I wonder sometimes if all those High Flying end gamers forget what it's like to be in the midst of the mid game tussle. You're levelled enough to take part but still to weak to really compete. Teams like zFinn and KRU are to mid gamers what Revan and Traya are to end gamers. Altering the way zFinn works will likely cause major head aches and in some instances losing a chunk of the player base.
2. The HAAT is finally soloable, but this is still something that needs to be earned as you obviously need to have CLS, Raid Han and 3PO meaning you've already put in a lot of leg work to earn this SOLO capability. Almost seems crass to take that away now just because One phase of the ridiculously hard Sith raid is a bit broken. Fix the raid then. Trayas already bad a** enough, I'm sure some stacking tenacity against expose won't hurt too much!
3. There is no 3. I just wanted to look like I'd put some real thought into this. Yet you keep on reading so maybe I could have typed some useful insight in here instead, all you're getting is the mindless waffle as I struggle to stop my fingers from typing. Look... still going. They just won't stop. Help?... anyone?
It's a difficult issue. The devs said they don't want easy exploits of infinite loops, and this clearly qualifies. But fixing it will require one of 3 things: fixing 3PO, which just came out, and will confuse his kit even more as far as the player base is concerned; I assume that's why it's not one of the options Crumb listed. The 2nd is fixing Finn; personally, I still love using Finn in GA/TW/TB, so he stills needs to be useful enough so nobody get angry. Fixing Traya might seem like the easiest option, but that would mean changing the raid - and, potentially, changing other strategies we've built up. Since no changes have been made yet, I'll just say this: I like the fact the devs are taking the time to consider their options and find the best solution, instead of rushing things. It's definitely a better process than some of their past actions, so I appreciate that and will hold all fury to the point where the change actually happen and I can consider it.
A big +1 to anyone who wants Traya changed and the other two left alone. Everyone else gets a big +1 poke in the eye.
I'm no dev but adding Tenacity to Traya when toppled seems like the least intrusive change by far. Which should be the goal. Fix the specific problem without affecting anything else.
Replies
It would be nice for them to find a happy medium where this team still does good damage in p3 but can't solo it. I'm so tired of the rng fest that is chex mix.
Everyone saying keep it for haat is really saying “keep it for arena/tw/GA not the haat.
Haats been a joke for a while now...
Think about TW now...for elite guilds 50 revans 50 trayas 50 finns clear then ships. In 4 months there wont be a TW that wont be clear vs clear no real strategy coming soon to a TW/GA/arena near you .....
Guess it was bound to happen anyway....someone will optimize everything everytime anyway....
I give the servers 6mo after jedi luke hits.... unless 9 or the new tv shows give us something to work with... man i wish they would go into legends territory would give me hope for the future
But like I said in the first place, let’s not complain against the devs, not on this thread. I’m seeing some complaining here, let’s keep it down. This is a thread about not nerfing Finn, not how time after time they nerf someone or what not.
Go start a thread on that if you want, this ones only trying to find likeminded people who are giving the devs our answer on what we want.
No Finn nerf! Please!
So why not just fix that dang droid? He's the one causing all the problems.
#Finn'sLifeMatters
I was one of the first to post the screenshot of P3 HSTR (27M with Leia)
HSTR has been released for 9 months and we finally have a team that can auto a phase. In comparison to HAAT, P3 could have been siloed with Thrawn and Jyn after 8 months.
With respect to Rancor, the whole raid could have been autoed after 8 months with the introduction of Jyn, Cassian, Baze and Bistan. To be fair, CLS made it trivial for everyone after 15 months.
So, my first argument is that single phase being able to put on auto after 9 months is not new.
Now, instead of increasing tenacity of Traya, or altering Finn lead, why not play with Traya’s defense, so that you require heavily geared toons to make the mechanics works. The new mechanics could trigger after 50 hits on toppled Traya, reset at each topple, to avoid altering the mechanics of the other teams.
High geared toons have much more defense penetration than low level so they could still deal enough damage to complete the phase before the whole raid is ended by the other guildmates.
Moreover, it would still bein the spirit of the game to incentivize players to gear characters to get better score. But give us some break while raiding.
Did anyone at CG ever try ChexMix (with Chewie or Chirrut) in P3? In order to get a decent score I restart about 20 to 30 times and this is seriously NOT fun. NS dearhstorm is also Extremely hard to pull off.
Lastly, zFinn was my 3rd zeta in January 2017, reason why it has a special place in my collection.
I can't accept that Sith raid is a sort of religious taboo for them: no solo allowed, no way to shorten the pain and increase the funny allowed..
Meh...lot of people spent a lot of money building an Aurra P3 team so they could Use NS in P4...the second people get close to having those teams.... you have one person soloing the thing (it happens..i get it) But from the company standpoint they sell a character for P3 and while people are still spending on it....this comes along...not good business.
(please understand..I don't care what they do or do not do concerning HSTR...my primary concern is finn in arena TW GA...we are already kinda close to setting defenses just for banners because nothing holds exept revan/traya these days.... throw another 50 zfinn teams.... every TW every GA will be double clears (for the most part)....and arena....ewww..
But yes 100% Finns zeta should not be nerfed....3PO should just have expose changed to something else... knowing the team they will replace expose with deathmark...lol J/K
2) I can't understand why Sith Raid is a sort of religious taboo for Devs. No solo allowed .... it must continue to annoy the players forever....
3) The problem is not that some people is smart and quickly learn how to use new mechanics to maximize the results... The problem is you!
You are the problem... every time a new shiny character comes to the game the is a "high risk" of a fast nerf... how is it possible that each time you don't test enough the interactions?
Of course players want to use a new character like 3PO to destroy HSTR!
And you didn't test that!
Do something help to destroy HSTR? Nerf!
Do something help to beat Revan, your beloved thousand dollars jewel? Nerf!
you know what we want? raid to stay this way... who in the world cares anymore about hstr amirite?
2. Implement diminishing returns on all debuffs (which is most simply done by tenacity stacking on debuff, but could also be based on how many debuffs are present). Reset (completely or partly) on taking a turn or debuffs expiring.
That would solve a lot of balancing problems. So many problems in the Sith raid stems from the decision to implement some convoluted version of anti-debuff/diminishing returns instead of doing the mechanics properly.
Giving traya stacking tenacity per hit (1% perhaps) when toppled would sort the issue, whilst not affecting the expose mechanics of JTR (expose chance dependant on crits). Sure people may try to find a similar loop using rebels under a JTR leader but 10% TM gain per expose seems too minimal to be able to create a new loop.
Like others have said though, this raid is not new anymore, it's about time we had some teams that can solo phases or at least do big chunks of damage. It's not 'easy' by any means to obtain C3PO, and by the next time he comes around and people have farmed up specifically for this exploit, there will be other new toons (Malak or Darth Revan) who will probably be proudly soloing phases anyway. These zFinn HSTR teams should still be an effective option for those privileged enough to have the right toons.
I do not currently have a zeta on Finn, but was planning to do his next, for use in GA and TW (this was planned before this exploit was found). Resistance are my favourite faction, nerfing Finn's zeta will really reduce the viability and versatility of the faction and he will become just another toon 'needed for an event'. Help me keep the dream alive of my 2 offensive resistance teams, JTR, R2, BB, 3PO & Nest for Revan and Finn with humans for Traya.
it is getting quite old seeing the how these nerfs come about
1. "Fixing" Traya, in fact, doesn't solve anything. There is another raid bosses and probably will be other in the future which will be affected if there will be no specific countermeasures. Changing every boss mechanics to counter any specific tricks looks like very counterproductive.
2. "Fixing" Finn? Huh, what? He is fine as he is now - except this "semi-endless loop" with C3PO. Any changes to him will probably hits (in negative way, of course) many other game activities and all people who doesn't have C3PO.
3. Fixing C3PO looks like the most logical solution. First, it is him who is the reason of this - so why change other's mechanics? Second, I really doubt that this exploit was expected by all people who spent resources to get him, so remove it shouldn't hit player's expectations. I even doubt that most people expected him to be a top toon at all. So, just change the way C3PO abilities interact with raid bosses only.
You remember the critolyte team right. Instead of fixing the new toon who's kit introduced the loop (traya), they nerfed an old toon in acolyte.
I love your idea. I just think CG doesn’t have the time to do that. Take that how you want- laziness, not caring, not enough man power etc...
Cg very much enjoys quick fixes or spinning old content to newer content.
I also believe they have a certain team in my mind for p3. That will be paid for toons.
1. New/mid game players are going to take the hit - those that can't even dream of beating HSith yet are going to be punished. zFinn works great for those who don't have JTR in raids, arena and other game modes. For some this is their go too team, I wonder sometimes if all those High Flying end gamers forget what it's like to be in the midst of the mid game tussle. You're levelled enough to take part but still to weak to really compete. Teams like zFinn and KRU are to mid gamers what Revan and Traya are to end gamers. Altering the way zFinn works will likely cause major head aches and in some instances losing a chunk of the player base.
2. The HAAT is finally soloable, but this is still something that needs to be earned as you obviously need to have CLS, Raid Han and 3PO meaning you've already put in a lot of leg work to earn this SOLO capability. Almost seems crass to take that away now just because One phase of the ridiculously hard Sith raid is a bit broken. Fix the raid then. Trayas already bad a** enough, I'm sure some stacking tenacity against expose won't hurt too much!
3. There is no 3. I just wanted to look like I'd put some real thought into this. Yet you keep on reading so maybe I could have typed some useful insight in here instead, all you're getting is the mindless waffle as I struggle to stop my fingers from typing. Look... still going. They just won't stop. Help?... anyone?
I'm no dev but adding Tenacity to Traya when toppled seems like the least intrusive change by far. Which should be the goal. Fix the specific problem without affecting anything else.