Change Traya, not Finn

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  • Save zfinn!
  • If Traya gained 2 percent TM when a debuff expires that would allow you to land 50 exposes per topple. Probably about 1.5 million damage. Most squads would get to 1, 2, or 3 topples before the run falls apart leaving damage between 1.5 and 4.5 million. I think that is fair and in line with other sith raid squads. If they are okay with more dmage they could make it a 1% gain and damage would span between 3 and 9 million. Honestly this is the best fix and we should do everything we can to get it in their face.

    I like this best, and I'm the person who first proposed +%Tenacity per expose.

    For full credit, this proposal is by @Olddumper
  • Yeah, I’m starting to think turn meter gain or tenacity gain for Traya are the best possible outcomes.
    Tag me if you reply to my comment so I know I should answer you!😀 My roster: https://swgoh.gg/p/842694912/
  • SO.... If they only make a change to how Finn and/or C3PO interact with Traya that still wouldn't cover all the problems. What about the fact that the Finn led team can beat a full on Revan team without them even taking a turn? As much as everyone without Revan may like this, I doubt that was what they intended this to do. I invested in Revan but I also I invested in Ewoks and C3PO so I am not being biased here. C3P0 is an iconic character and deserves a great kit but something needs to be adjusted on his or Finn's zeta.
  • TravoisYeswater
    41 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Fix Raid Traya. small TM gain as mentioned previously seems like an elegant, narrowly tailored solution.
  • Sfortune
    83 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    When this happens the devs should just lock toons out of phases. Lock Finn out of p3 (who isn't really viable.without the exploit) and everything goes back to normal and they haven't changed the raid (already incredibly rng dependent) or the toons. I don't think arena is an issue because AI could never pull it off meaning that you might climb but you'll also drop like a stone with that team. And there are already lots of teams which best revan on offense only to fall easily to a revan team on defense.
  • I'd rather nerf C3P0 by making it so his special cannot have the cooldown reduced.
  • Ultra
    11452 posts Moderator
    edited December 2018
    mesa176750 wrote: »
    I'd rather nerf C3P0 by making it so his special cannot have the cooldown reduced.
    My understanding was that his special DOES NOT reduce cooldowns of allies

    He needs to use basic for that. Finn lead reduces cooldowns.

    EDIT: Oh I see what you mean. Immune to cooldown reduction from Finn/Rey lead + Traya
  • Keep Finn the same.

    Heck, if you have to, you can even give Traya extra tenacity specifically against Expose. I always find it weird when something crops up with a generally used toon in a specific game mode the first choice of the Devs seems to be to change the generally used toon **in all cases** instead of changing that single, broken game mode.

    If the toon was balanced before HSTR came out, then the toon is fine and any problems are with HSTR.

    Keep in mind, we wouldn't want them to find some way to ruin chex mix if they messed with traya. I think they should leave it the way it is
    "When life gives you lemons, throw them at someone"
  • TVF wrote: »
    Zombie961 wrote: »
    On the one hand I do want solo tank, on the other hand the fixes for traya would be upping tenacity which makes all debuffs on her useless or immunity to expose which just leaves door open to some other later inevevitble exploit

    In hSTR debuffs are almost useless already.

    I'd be much more annoyed if they mess with Finn's zeta. That's a much more disruptive change.

    or give everyone a free 7 star traya, remove the raid, and give us a new one with same gear rewards lmao
    "When life gives you lemons, throw them at someone"
  • Posted this on other places, but I think this is the best way forward and haven't seen anyone else suggest it yet


    What they need to do is knock down rebels' expose on basic chance by 10 or 20% instead of being guaranteed.

    Nerfing finns ability seems counter to the whole idea of making 3p0 promote cross faction squads

    Treyas tenacity is high enough that you need a real lot of it, so your team won't have crazy offense or speed. I ran the team with 50~80% potency and held the first topple for quite a while, but only did ~2mil. Damage.

    Cutting down the expose chance by just a little bit would break the infinite loop cycle, keep old toons unchanged, and also keep Finn+rebel team viable for STR raid. I don't think it would hurt pvp modes much, if at all, and overall I think it would let 3p0 maintain more value than if they just buff STR/Nerf finn
  • Ultra wrote: »
    mesa176750 wrote: »
    I'd rather nerf C3P0 by making it so his special cannot have the cooldown reduced.

    EDIT: Oh I see what you mean. Immune to cooldown reduction from Finn/Rey lead + Traya

    Yes, this is what I meant to say. I feel that it would be a happy nerf that we could all get behind. It doesn't affect how traya interacts with other teams, it doesn't affect a decent long standing character and his zeta (Finn) and it only means you absolutely must wait 2 turns to use that ability again, therefore stopping these infinite loops.


  • SO.... If they only make a change to how Finn and/or C3PO interact with Traya that still wouldn't cover all the problems. What about the fact that the Finn led team can beat a full on Revan team without them even taking a turn? As much as everyone without Revan may like this, I doubt that was what they intended this to do. I invested in Revan but I also I invested in Ewoks and C3PO so I am not being biased here. C3P0 is an iconic character and deserves a great kit but something needs to be adjusted on his or Finn's zeta.

    Just because Revan was a lemon doesn't mean you rework existing toons
    Just because the sith raid was a lemon doesn't mean you rework existing toons

  • Leave existing toons alone and fix 3po
  • Tiptop2000 wrote: »
    Leave existing toons alone and fix 3po

    Oh, "fix" the character that people probably spent money to ensure they would get and change that character IMMEDIATELY after they got it? Yeah, I don't see any problems with that happening, everyone will be happy with that instead of changing the character that folks got years ago and has already fallen by the wayside.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    Tiptop2000 wrote: »
    Leave existing toons alone and fix 3po

    Oh, "fix" the character that people probably spent money to ensure they would get and change that character IMMEDIATELY after they got it? Yeah, I don't see any problems with that happening, everyone will be happy with that instead of changing the character that folks got years ago and has already fallen by the wayside.

    Already fallen by the wayside? Excuse me, but Finn has by no means fallen by the wayside. Beating revan teams. Being a great beginner character, even has a place in end game. His zeta is one of the best out there. Soloing the HAAT. He is far away from falling by the wayside.
    Tag me if you reply to my comment so I know I should answer you!😀 My roster: https://swgoh.gg/p/842694912/
  • Posted this on other places, but I think this is the best way forward and haven't seen anyone else suggest it yet


    What they need to do is knock down rebels' expose on basic chance by 10 or 20% instead of being guaranteed.

    Nerfing finns ability seems counter to the whole idea of making 3p0 promote cross faction squads

    Treyas tenacity is high enough that you need a real lot of it, so your team won't have crazy offense or speed. I ran the team with 50~80% potency and held the first topple for quite a while, but only did ~2mil. Damage.

    Cutting down the expose chance by just a little bit would break the infinite loop cycle, keep old toons unchanged, and also keep Finn+rebel team viable for STR raid. I don't think it would hurt pvp modes much, if at all, and overall I think it would let 3p0 maintain more value than if they just buff STR/Nerf finn

    It would reduce the reliability of Finn against Revan teams. They NEED that opening expose. There are going to be refund requests galore if they reduce the effectiveness of these guys in PvP. There was no reason to expect that nerf when people spent resources to get C3PO. I just don’t think CG wants to deal with that. If that is the change they have to at least add something else to compensate.
  • Tbirds01 wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    Tiptop2000 wrote: »
    Leave existing toons alone and fix 3po

    Oh, "fix" the character that people probably spent money to ensure they would get and change that character IMMEDIATELY after they got it? Yeah, I don't see any problems with that happening, everyone will be happy with that instead of changing the character that folks got years ago and has already fallen by the wayside.

    Already fallen by the wayside? Excuse me, but Finn has by no means fallen by the wayside. Beating revan teams. Being a great beginner character, even has a place in end game. His zeta is one of the best out there. Soloing the HAAT. He is far away from falling by the wayside.

    Finn teams have a place and I don't regret bringing him up to g12 or slicing him up to gold mods (although he's still a mix of blues and purples--the point is that I'm working on it even now) but he's far less useful to me now than six months ago. The game's changed. Finn teams can't hold on defense, so any Arena ground you take on offense is lost to you. If you're keeping him properly modded you can use him on offense in Grand Arena, but the high speed necessary on a Poe that you're not using in Arena Proper is going to cost you elsewhere (although, now that I think about it, you could always transfer arena speed mods onto Poe just before the Grand Arena event starts and locks the snapshot of your roster, then switch them back once it's safe--that's not a bad idea at all), and there comes a point where clearing HAAT is easy for a guild.

    I pretty much only use my Finn now in Light Side Territory Battles so I've got two full Resistance teams to do the combat missions.

    His zeta *is* one of the best, for sure. It singlehandedly makes Resistance playable in high-end gameplay. But there's a reason you don't see Resistance on leaderboards before zetas are available, and don't see him on leaderboards after zetas have been available for more than a few months.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • I also vote to leave zFinn just the way he is. We’ve been doing the Rancor on auto for quite some time now. HAAT was overdue to be able to be completed on full auto. I’m sure CG can figure out a way to keep zFinn the way he is without breaking heroic sith raid.
  • Why not just change Finn lead so the turn meter only happens when an expose occurs from a Resistance ally.
    That removes the Finn/Han/CLS/3PO/scout combo.
    But would allow a resistance team which is the true spirit of Finn lead.(like Finn/Dameron/trooper)

    You should still be close to soloing Haat with a high potency res trooper, R2, BB, 3po under a finn lead.
  • Hanfirst wrote: »
    Why not just change Finn lead so the turn meter only happens when an expose occurs from a Resistance ally.
    That removes the Finn/Han/CLS/3PO/scout combo.
    But would allow a resistance team which is the true spirit of Finn lead.(like Finn/Dameron/trooper)

    You should still be close to soloing Haat with a high potency res trooper, R2, BB, 3po under a finn lead.

    No TM reduction to get through Phase 1/3 in that team.

    But the problem is how it’s coded. The game can’t track where debuffs came from after the turn is up. It’s why DoTs don’t count as damage from a character in the raid. It’s why deaths from TDs don’t activate Boba’s payout. While I think your idea makes sense from a gameplay perspective, it might not make sense from a logistical one. Is it worth the time to recode that, and what bugs will pop up once they do?
  • The painfully obvious answer is to fix a raid boss, not nerf a toon that is otherwise fine. Even if that fix for the raid boss is against only enemy teams with that specific leader ability, that's still an infinitely more preferable solution than to just nerf a toon's performance across the board.
  • Tbirds01 wrote: »
    Hey everyone,
    Mr Crumb just posted about possibly "changing" Finn's lead or Traya's tenacity. I would like it better to change Traya, although that’s just my opinion.
    If they change Finn, then he won’t probably work well in the HAAT.
    I know many veteran players don’t care much for the HAAT anymore, but their are many players who do, including me. I would absolutely love it if they didn’t change Finn. Keep his zeta awesome.
    @CG_SBCrumb said that they’ll change whatever the player base and the game would want. Let’s hope that’s true.
    If that’s true, let’s all get together as a community as those who want ZFinn to stay the way he is and voice our desire in that aspect. Please comment below and voice whether you’d like that.
    I do not want this to be a place of complaint against the devs. And please no arguing on this thread. If any feel the urge to prove that they’re right, take a deep breath and let it go.

    No, CG should never nerf Traya. I just unlocked Traya and my guild is farming regularly now. Do you realize how much blood, sweat, and tears were put in to get to this point? Leave Traya alone or risk losing tons of players who have worked to get her. Nerf zFinn if we’re really choosing between the two.
  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    Tbirds01 wrote: »
    Hey everyone,
    Mr Crumb just posted about possibly "changing" Finn's lead or Traya's tenacity. I would like it better to change Traya, although that’s just my opinion.
    If they change Finn, then he won’t probably work well in the HAAT.
    I know many veteran players don’t care much for the HAAT anymore, but their are many players who do, including me. I would absolutely love it if they didn’t change Finn. Keep his zeta awesome.
    @CG_SBCrumb said that they’ll change whatever the player base and the game would want. Let’s hope that’s true.
    If that’s true, let’s all get together as a community as those who want ZFinn to stay the way he is and voice our desire in that aspect. Please comment below and voice whether you’d like that.
    I do not want this to be a place of complaint against the devs. And please no arguing on this thread. If any feel the urge to prove that they’re right, take a deep breath and let it go.

    No, CG should never nerf Traya. I just unlocked Traya and my guild is farming regularly now. Do you realize how much blood, sweat, and tears were put in to get to this point? Leave Traya alone or risk losing tons of players who have worked to get her. Nerf zFinn if we’re really choosing between the two.

    We're choosing between player-controlled Finn and raid Traya. No one is touching player-controlled Traya.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Tbirds01 wrote: »
    Hey everyone,
    Mr Crumb just posted about possibly "changing" Finn's lead or Traya's tenacity. I would like it better to change Traya, although that’s just my opinion.
    If they change Finn, then he won’t probably work well in the HAAT.
    I know many veteran players don’t care much for the HAAT anymore, but their are many players who do, including me. I would absolutely love it if they didn’t change Finn. Keep his zeta awesome.
    @CG_SBCrumb said that they’ll change whatever the player base and the game would want. Let’s hope that’s true.
    If that’s true, let’s all get together as a community as those who want ZFinn to stay the way he is and voice our desire in that aspect. Please comment below and voice whether you’d like that.
    I do not want this to be a place of complaint against the devs. And please no arguing on this thread. If any feel the urge to prove that they’re right, take a deep breath and let it go.

    No, CG should never nerf Traya. I just unlocked Traya and my guild is farming regularly now. Do you realize how much blood, sweat, and tears were put in to get to this point? Leave Traya alone or risk losing tons of players who have worked to get her. Nerf zFinn if we’re really choosing between the two.

    We're choosing between player-controlled Finn and raid Traya. No one is touching player-controlled Traya.

    Ahh...read it wrong. My apologies.
  • I don’t think they should “fix” it at all considering it’s almost a year old and it should no longer be “end game” if they would come up with another raid that is harder. Having said that, don’t make the sith raid harder by giving Traya more tenacity. That will hurt jtr teams. If you do a fix, fix Finn and give everyone their zeta back. I don’t use Finn much anymore anyway so would rather use the zeta somewhere else.
  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    srwhitewvu wrote: »
    Having said that, don’t make the sith raid harder by giving Traya more tenacity. That will hurt jtr teams.

    If you're using JTR in P3 you're not doing heroic. You'll be fine.

    EDIT: JTR exposes can't be resisted anyway. This does nothing to JTR teams.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Finn isn't the toon that's broken. Please don't break him.
    Guild Leader of CHAL | Member of the WWL Alliance
  • Please leave zFinn the way he is!
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