Another GA matchmaking post

I know this has already been pointed out, but I wanted to further demonstrate why the matchmaking for GA is skewed against ship builders. Below is a screenshot and some stats from my current match:

My toon GP: 1,686,978
His toon GP: 1,921,208
My ship GP: 1,483,202
His ship GP: 1,263,546
My first try toon wins: 5
His first try toon wins: 2

My point in listing all of this is that ship GA points are not proportional to the GP weighting used in matchmaking. CG, please adjust the ship GP used in matchmaking to be proportional to the total points that can be earned from ships.

People, like me, that focused on ships are already being penalized for having G12 geonosians affecting our toon GP.
nrhkul8mroot.jpeg

Replies

  • Did you use your Bastila counter somewhere else? I see that your ship zone is still there, meaning your ship GP advantage played itself out. Bastila is a great defensive team, but there are some effective counters. Do you have them?
  • Waqui
    4054 posts Member
    edited January 2
    This is when the challenge of applying the best strategy kicks in. You could have won by saving all your strong ground toons for offense to clear both zones, while still holding your fleet zone. If your opponent had to use multiple attempts on all but 2 of your ground teams, while you couldn't clear his ground zone, it seems like you set a too strong defense. If you hadn't then your strong fleet(s) would actually have won the battle for you.

    You're penalized for using a weak strategy - not for having a strong fleet.
  • Waqui
    4054 posts Member
    Another example from my current battle (nothing is decided yet. I can still loose, but anyway....):

    01t1qjxyx0lw.png

    My opponent lost his first attempt on my fleet (genosians with HT) and probably won't clear it. I cleared his fleet in first attempt. Now, if he doesn't clear my ground zone (the two strongest teams are still standing untouched) he won't win and my strong fleet/ships will then have won the battle for me. I'm not penalized for having strong ships.

    (I still have a few strong ground teams to attack and clear more teams - maybe even all of them, maybe not. My opponent put 23 g12s on defense, and has less for offense. I put 13 only on defense, leaving more for offense)
  • I think you two are missing my point. My strategy aside, we have the same number of teams cleared, same number of territories cleared, and I have more points per ground win. However, my opponent has more total points because clearing the ground territory counts for more. All while having a GP advantage on toons that I can’t compensate for. If ship GP will be weighted equally with toon GP then ship points should also be weighted equally.

    To address my strategy, I set mostly mediocre teams and saved all but 1 of my best for offense. And no I don’t have many strong Bastila counters. I’m not worried about losing to someone that has many effective arena teams. I just don’t like getting mismatched every GA (200k-300k disadvantage).
  • Waqui
    4054 posts Member
    I think you two are missing my point. My strategy aside, we have the same number of teams cleared, same number of territories cleared, and I have more points per ground win. However, my opponent has more total points because clearing the ground territory counts for more.

    Clearing the ground zone takes up to 7 teams. Awarding more points makes sense.

    Holding my fleet zone only required investment in 5 crew members and ships and another 5 to clear the opponent's fleet. I don't see why that should award the same amount of points as clearing a ground zone. Perhaps in the original format with 3 ground zones with fewer teams it could award the same amount of points (maybe it did. I don't remember).

    I still don't think you're penalized for having strong ships.
    To address my strategy, I set mostly mediocre teams and saved all but 1 of my best for offense. And no I don’t have many strong Bastila counters. I’m not worried about losing to someone that has many effective arena teams. I just don’t like getting mismatched every GA (200k-300k disadvantage).

    Your opponents are clearly the ones with the disadvantage, if they can't clear your ship zone (maybe they could with a different strategy - I cannot say). They have a 200k - 300k disadvantage in ships.

    My advice for future battles would be, that if you believe, you can hold your fleet zone, then never mind your ground defense. Do whatever it takes to clear both your opponent's zones. Leaving one strong team on ground defense would be one too many unless you're absoloutely sure, that your opponent doesn't have a counter. (That strategy won me 1st place for my alt in the first full GA).

  • Waqui wrote: »
    My advice for future battles would be, that if you believe, you can hold your fleet zone, then never mind your ground defense. Do whatever it takes to clear both your opponent's zones. Leaving one strong team on ground defense would be one too many unless you're absoloutely sure, that your opponent doesn't have a counter. (That strategy won me 1st place for my alt in the first full GA).

    Thanks for the advice, and I may try it on round 3 if I get a bad matchup. But while we’re speaking in hypotheticals, couldn’t my opponent use a full turtle strategy on the ground and prevent me from taking the ground territory? I would be in the same situation as above (I take fleet territory and he takes ground), and I would still lose.
  • I think it’s not a big deal.
    Just case by case.
    In fact, most of my guildmates said fleet is the key.
    I agree with them too.
    Fleets: only one squad.
    “Defeat it or not” could make huge differences.
  • Waqui
    4054 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    My advice for future battles would be, that if you believe, you can hold your fleet zone, then never mind your ground defense. Do whatever it takes to clear both your opponent's zones. Leaving one strong team on ground defense would be one too many unless you're absoloutely sure, that your opponent doesn't have a counter. (That strategy won me 1st place for my alt in the first full GA).

    Thanks for the advice, and I may try it on round 3 if I get a bad matchup. But while we’re speaking in hypotheticals, couldn’t my opponent use a full turtle strategy on the ground and prevent me from taking the ground territory? I would be in the same situation as above (I take fleet territory and he takes ground), and I would still lose.

    He could, yes, and if he does, you would have been better off going full turtle yourself and then relying on clearing his fleet and holding your own fleet. That's the challenging aspect of strategizing in GA. Trying to predict your opponent's possible moves, and choosing the strategy with highest chance of success for yourself. No strategy guarantees a victory, however, and overwhelming force is always an advantage.
  • Waqui wrote: »

    He could, yes, and if he does, you would have been better off going full turtle yourself and then relying on clearing his fleet and holding your own fleet. That's the challenging aspect of strategizing in GA. Trying to predict your opponent's possible moves, and choosing the strategy with highest chance of success for yourself. No strategy guarantees a victory, however, and overwhelming force is always an advantage.

    I feel that this statement just furthers my original point. I had a near flawless strategy and execution while only failing to beat 1 defensive team yet still lost. My opponent took far more attacks than I did to win the same number of fights implies that his strategy wasn’t as good as mine.

    Again, I don’t mind a challenge, and I don’t mind losing a fair competition, but this just doesn’t feel like a fair competition.

    An example of what I’m proposing is to use a weighted system on GP to matchmake. For instance, if ships are 25% of the maximum total points then 25% of ship GP should be added to 75% of toon GP to create my total GA GP.

    Just for reference, I like the concept of GA. I just want an improved matchmaking system that isn’t skewed the way it is (I’m in no way advocating for the roster fluff people by the way).
  • Waqui
    4054 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »

    He could, yes, and if he does, you would have been better off going full turtle yourself and then relying on clearing his fleet and holding your own fleet. That's the challenging aspect of strategizing in GA. Trying to predict your opponent's possible moves, and choosing the strategy with highest chance of success for yourself. No strategy guarantees a victory, however, and overwhelming force is always an advantage.

    I feel that this statement just furthers my original point. I had a near flawless strategy and execution while only failing to beat 1 defensive team yet still lost. My opponent took far more attacks than I did to win the same number of fights implies that his strategy wasn’t as good as mine.

    Near flawless strategy? Using a different strategy you would have won.
    Again, I don’t mind a challenge, and I don’t mind losing a fair competition, but this just doesn’t feel like a fair competition.

    Your opponent cleared a zone that had far more teams than the zone you cleared. For that he was awarded more banners. That seems fair to me.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Your opponent cleared a zone that had far more teams than the zone you cleared. For that he was awarded more banners. That seems fair to me.

    I literally could have done nothing more in this match than beat that last team and clear the territory. If I had done that, I would have won even without my points from the ship territory victory. What this indicates is that ship points are merely just a tie breaker for a close match. They might as well just remove the points from ship battles and award gold stars and rainbow stickers!

    The reason I say this is unfair is that ship GP is weighted equally in matchmaking but ships points earned are not. In the battle I used as an example, we could have removed all points related to ships and nothing would have changed. But I’m matched at a 200k toon disadvantage for the territory that actually does matter. 200k is 2 quality arena teams which is essentially what I was missing to clear that last defensive team.

    Yes, I could have used different or better strategies to win this close one, but the fact that I need a flawless strategy to win while my opponent can afford numerous mistakes demonstrates that the current matchmaking system is unfair.

    I’m not complaining randomly here or even asking for compensation. The matchmaking system has a major imbalance when it comes to ship GP. I’m pointing out the problem using an example and offering a suggestion for a better system.
  • 200k is either 2 arena squads... or roster fluff that wouldn't have helped you win. I get your overall point, but I don't think any matchmaking algorithm would make it perfect - you cleared all but one ground squad, so it's not like you were blown out.

    At your level and higher, ship RNG is a massive factor as well. Awarding more banners for the fleet zone would amplify this issue and turn matches into a coin flip. With your strong fleet, I agree with others that have said to set a fleet to hold on D and work to clear both their fleet and ground zone, setting minimal ground D if necessary. That's the best win strategy for your roster comp.

  • Waqui wrote: »

    He could, yes, and if he does, you would have been better off going full turtle yourself and then relying on clearing his fleet and holding your own fleet. That's the challenging aspect of strategizing in GA. Trying to predict your opponent's possible moves, and choosing the strategy with highest chance of success for yourself. No strategy guarantees a victory, however, and overwhelming force is always an advantage.

    I feel that this statement just furthers my original point. I had a near flawless strategy and execution while only failing to beat 1 defensive team yet still lost. My opponent took far more attacks than I did to win the same number of fights implies that his strategy wasn’t as good as mine.

    Again, I don’t mind a challenge, and I don’t mind losing a fair competition, but this just doesn’t feel like a fair competition.

    An example of what I’m proposing is to use a weighted system on GP to matchmake. For instance, if ships are 25% of the maximum total points then 25% of ship GP should be added to 75% of toon GP to create my total GA GP.

    Just for reference, I like the concept of GA. I just want an improved matchmaking system that isn’t skewed the way it is (I’m in no way advocating for the roster fluff people by the way).

    @Scuttlebutt A few points. First, your strategy wasn't perfect. It seems like you just misplayed on offense. You could have easily cleared Bastila with your Rebels. You chose to use them elsewhere. Your opponent had a better strategy as evidenced by their ability to clear your defense with multiple losses. They identified they needed to clear the character zone to win and executed appropriately. You had five first try victories, which implies you might have used more force than necessary for some of those matches, leaving you unable to overcome that last team.

    Second, you made choices regarding your roster composition - very explicit choices weighted towards gearing pilots at the expense of most others (14 G12 pilots when parts of your arena team are still sitting at G11). You have benefited from those choices in certain game modes (TW, TB, Fleet Arena). You are now asking for special dispensation so that you do not have to pay for the consequences of those choices (gearing toons that are sub-optimal in PvP battles on a gear-for-gear basis with other toons).

    Third, you aren't optimzing the toons you do have geared. You have G12 geos with horrible mods and a 7* Poggle without gear or a maxed leadership ability. Put some adequate mods on those geos, give them a leader and someone will have to burn a quality squad on them. Ditto for a G12 SRP. Have fun killing him on defense if he's running with adequate protection / defense / and speed secondaries.

    Yes, you are at a small disadvantage in this particular format by being forced to clear one large territory for a victory. But if you do clear that territory, you have a very high likelihood of winning since your fleet is likely to hold. It may come to pass that two fleets will be required on defense with a limit of 1 reinforcement, at which point your character GP heavy opponents will be writing similar posts about how unfair it is, despite them having reaped similar but opposite benefits in prior GAs.

    GA is like a decathlon - it's unlikely your roster is going to place first in the 100 meter, shot put, and pole vault as they all require different skills to master individually.

  • @Scuttlebutt A few points. First, your strategy wasn't perfect.

    Thanks for taking the time to go through my roster before firing a quick, thoughtless response. I agree my strategy wasn’t perfect and that I only meant a few tweaks would have won me another battle. My point wasn’t to focus on my strategy or even this one loss. My opponent had an easier path to victory due to having more usable characters. If this were truly a fair and balanced system, that wouldn’t be the case.

    And to lead into your second point, I’m fully willing to take the loss or come up with a clever strategy due to my numerous g12 pilots vs his numerous g12 squad arena toons. That’s a choice that I made long ago, and it still doesn’t bother me. But (abilities aside), a g12 geo is the same GP as a g12 CLS or revan, so I’m already penalized for my decision here (since CLS and revan are actually good). What I’m getting at is that I take a second penalty by factoring in ship GP with toon GP on a 1 to 1 basis while leaving ship points as nothing more than a tie breaker.

    On your third point, I agree. I have my pilots optimized for ships but not for squads.
  • Those abilities really matter from a GP perspective. A maxed three zeta, six ability toon (CLS, JTR, Revan) is worth about 9k more GP than a maxed three our four ability toon with no zetas (Spy, Soldier, Sun Fac). GP is taking those differences into account. My CLS and Revan are worth the same from a GP perspective as your Spy, Soldier and Sun Fac. Conversely, I spent 120 more zetas, 280 more purple mats and 33 more omegas on that GP, which you could have spent on something else (and you also got to breeze through all of the new ship table hard nodes while I still haven't 3-starred them all!!)

    I do agree that having character GP from crew members 'double counted' in some fashion puts those who have heavily invested in ships at the expense of squad only characters at a disadvantage in game modes that include squad only characters.
  • Lol setting no ground defense? I did set all teams on D that are between 65k and 80k power. My opponent shouldn’t be able to beat my fleet, so we’ll see how it goes.
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