Can we get an update on zFinn, C3PO and HSTR?

Replies

  • Ultra
    1595 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Finn was a problem waiting to happen before C-3PO dropped. He was always one reliable in-faction source of Expose away from an infinite loop. That was going to happen sooner or later.

    Whatever the change, it has to affect more than just P3 hSith.
    Quite true. I think Finn is the reason that Rose, Holdo, JTR don't apply expose through their kits but by JTR's leadership ability. Expose is a Resistance staple, and future Resistance toons will always be challenged when it comes to expose during kit creation because of zeta Finn lead
  • Don't think a change is in order here. HSTR is old enough now, and 3po is new enough to let it slide.
    As for viability in arena CG seems to be solving this with preloaded TM and unique synergies. And anyway zfinn will always be a bad defense team.
  • YaeVizsla
    1459 posts Member
    edited January 7
    Ultra wrote: »
    Quite true. I think Finn is the reason that Rose, Holdo, JTR don't apply expose through their kits but by JTR's leadership ability. Expose is a Resistance staple, and future Resistance toons will always be challenged when it comes to expose during kit creation because of zeta Finn lead
    And that was to significant detriment to Rose and Amilyn's kits as part of the Resistance faction.
    Post edited by YaeVizsla on
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Whatever the change, it has to affect more than just P3 hSith.
    Quite true. I think Finn is the reason that Rose, Holdo, JTR don't apply expose through their kits but by JTR's leadership ability. Expose is a Resistance staple, and future Resistance toons will always be challenged when it comes to expose during kit creation because of zeta Finn lead
    And that was to significant detriment to Rose and Amilyn's kits as part of the Resistance faction.
    [/quote]

    For what it’s worth, Holdo is phenomenal with Finn, Poe, RT, and RP in GA/TW. Aoe daze, the ability to trigger exposes behind taunt, health/protection recovery, and an auxiliary taunt are all great attributes for her there. She’s also quite useful with Rey.
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    Per the communication prior to the holidays we know there is a change coming to either Phase 3 of HSTR or the interaction between zFinn and C3PO (aka nerf). It'd be really helpful to know the direction of this change so folks can adjust and invest resources accordingly. Can we get more details? If these are not available, can we get an updated timeline?

    They've already said they will nerf it sometime this year. They'll give us the details around when they do it. Why do you need to rush them?

    and FYI, they almost certainly won't nerf 3p0. If they nerf Finn, it won't hurt his usefulness running regular resistance at all.

    In other words, whatever "plan" they come up with will affect only the team that can solo p3. You don't have to hold back on leveling or gearing any of them as they are all valuable in their niche.

    In other words, there's no real need to know what their plans are, or to rush them to give them to us. Just go on about your business and don't plan on making that one team.

    Wow thanks for the chastizment and complete speculation. The "why" is in the post, so people can plan and invest wisely (i.e. in c3po and supporting characters or not).

    CG has a history of massively overdoing "fixes", so your "will only affect one team", is a guess, and maybe a bad one.

    You have over 3000 posts. I hope they aren't all equally useless.
  • Sirlagzalott
    650 posts Member
    edited January 5
    Lol there is definitely a need to know. As a guild officer, I have a hard time telling people that they should farm Chex Mix etc which, as it stands, is now obsolete. Even if their intent is to leave as is, any direction would be a nice.

    We’re now farming HSTR but earlier before they “fixed” NS, several members abandoned Chex farming which set our progression back.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    I see zero problem with Finn's zeta outside the Sith raid.
  • TVF wrote: »
    I see zero problem with Finn's zeta outside the Sith raid.

    I’ve not seen if first hand but some are complaining that the ‘loop’ can occur in arena. If true, I suspect it’s rare or they’d be a lot more uproar.

  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    It can but it's not a guaranteed win on D so there's no problem IMO. The one team in our shard regularly gets beat back into the 40s.
  • Gorem
    716 posts Member
    Count me in the camp that HSTR is old now and should have phases soloable by now. We soloing HAAT and Hancor, mayaswell give us something in HSTR to get through the slog.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    It's not *that* old compared to the HAAT and how long people have been soloing the HAAT (not very long in relative terms). I don't see the problem with a minor fix within the raid that leaves things untouched beyond it.
  • Vondy wrote: »
    For what it’s worth, Holdo is phenomenal with Finn, Poe, RT, and RP in GA/TW. Aoe daze, the ability to trigger exposes behind taunt, health/protection recovery, and an auxiliary taunt are all great attributes for her there. She’s also quite useful with Rey.
    I run Amilyn in the arena.

    She is the best tank for JTR, though it's a narrow thing.

    That the lack of engagement with expose mechanics is to the detriment of Amilyn and Rose does not mean the meme that they suck. Rose in particular is hurt because she relies on lots of enemies being exposed at the same time, and Resistance doesn't really get many good ways to do that. Get lucky with a multicrit AoE under JTR or use Poe. But they can't really put more expose proccers in the faction without breaking Finn, which is why the only expose proccer Resistance got with the VIII set was nested in a lead.

    Finn creates a design complication by his existence that makes expanding the faction going forward a problem unless a new lead gives Resistance an alternate gimmick besides Expose manipulation.
  • Vondy
    64 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Vondy wrote: »
    For what it’s worth, Holdo is phenomenal with Finn, Poe, RT, and RP in GA/TW. Aoe daze, the ability to trigger exposes behind taunt, health/protection recovery, and an auxiliary taunt are all great attributes for her there. She’s also quite useful with Rey.
    I run Amilyn in the arena.

    She is the best tank for JTR, though it's a narrow thing.

    That the lack of engagement with expose mechanics is to the detriment of Amilyn and Rose does not mean the meme that they suck. Rose in particular is hurt because she relies on lots of enemies being exposed at the same time, and Resistance doesn't really get many good ways to do that. Get lucky with a multicrit AoE under JTR or use Poe. But they can't really put more expose proccers in the faction without breaking Finn, which is why the only expose proccer Resistance got with the VIII set was nested in a lead.

    Finn creates a design complication by his existence that makes expanding the faction going forward a problem unless a new lead gives Resistance an alternate gimmick besides Expose manipulation.

    No disagreement there. Just a PSA as a resistance fan for those trying to figure out how to use them in PvP :)
  • Maybe they should just ban Finn and C-3PO from HSTR. That would solve the problem, and it be fun, and playable.
  • Woodroward
    3102 posts Member
    edited January 5
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Per the communication prior to the holidays we know there is a change coming to either Phase 3 of HSTR or the interaction between zFinn and C3PO (aka nerf). It'd be really helpful to know the direction of this change so folks can adjust and invest resources accordingly. Can we get more details? If these are not available, can we get an updated timeline?

    They've already said they will nerf it sometime this year. They'll give us the details around when they do it. Why do you need to rush them?

    and FYI, they almost certainly won't nerf 3p0. If they nerf Finn, it won't hurt his usefulness running regular resistance at all.

    In other words, whatever "plan" they come up with will affect only the team that can solo p3. You don't have to hold back on leveling or gearing any of them as they are all valuable in their niche.

    In other words, there's no real need to know what their plans are, or to rush them to give them to us. Just go on about your business and don't plan on making that one team.

    Wow thanks for the chastizment and complete speculation. The "why" is in the post, so people can plan and invest wisely (i.e. in c3po and supporting characters or not).

    CG has a history of massively overdoing "fixes", so your "will only affect one team", is a guess, and maybe a bad one.

    You have over 3000 posts. I hope they aren't all equally useless.

    It's not my fault you're impatient. I told you why patience is best here.
    It's not a guess, it's what they specifically said in their post (though I am paraphrasing here), that they were going to be very methodical on this one so as to make sure they didn't ruin other fun things.

    To put it another way: they said they were going to take their time to make sure that the fix they come up with has minimum impact outside the raid.

    They said they were looking at Finn's leader and Traya's mechanics. Stacking resistance won't affect any other p3 team if they implement it. Finn's leader would at most be changed so that only exposes from resistance trigger the leader. How many other Finn lead teams rely on expose from non-resistance? I don't know of any.

    SO.... it's not a guess. It will only affect this team. There you go.

    If you can't take sound advice, that's not my issue.
  • Ultra
    1595 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Finn creates a design complication by his existence that makes expanding the faction going forward a problem unless a new lead gives Resistance an alternate gimmick besides Expose manipulation.
    Yeah. JTR's expose mechanic is more balanced, and I think another reason why JTR has long cooldowns is to prevent running her under Finn lead, and Its not just the resistance, any other toon with expose and the first thought is to sub it in a Resistance team such as Nest and C3PO -- being the problem because of this

    Again, its just my speculation but I think the future of Resistance faction is damaged by forcing them to have longer cooldowns and forcing them to interact with expose via leader abilities while not inflicting exposes themselves in their own kit and the only remedy is to change zeta Finn
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    kaz8772 wrote: »
    Maybe they should just ban Finn and C-3PO from HSTR. That would solve the problem, and it be fun, and playable.

    That's ridiculous. C-3PO is fun to use in multiple phases and can be used multiple times like Hoda.
  • I am more than happy to auto p3 for now. Please take your time, or dont fix it at all.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    Of course with all this said I cannot use C3PO in either tank or Sith anymore, I complete the run and then it absolutely refuses to post no matter cell or wifi, signal is super strong. And yes I've reported this on Answers HQ.

    Anyone else having this happen?
  • Ultra
    1595 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Anyone else having this happen?
    Ran the tank raid earlier today and had no issues. Guild mate had the issue (connection error with a giant restart button) but his tank solo run still got posted

  • TVF wrote: »
    Of course with all this said I cannot use C3PO in either tank or Sith anymore, I complete the run and then it absolutely refuses to post no matter cell or wifi, signal is super strong. And yes I've reported this on Answers HQ.

    Anyone else having this happen?

    I think the game counts the buffs/debuffs but doesn’t show them. These teams cause a TON of lag. It always posts, but I sometimes have to wait 30 seconds for it to go through. Reminds me of the stacking bonds on Traya that used to lag the game.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    edited January 5
    But I'm getting the "no connection" error. And I have to force quit and the score is not posted.
  • It definitely poses a problem in arena as well. You can say that I'm also at fault here for not having faster mods (my Thrawn is 295 speed), but I came up against an undergeared zFinn team (G9 C3-PO, RT, Han, Chewy) and they basically got into an "infinite" loop before I could even take a turn.
    It's kind of funny how a G11 Finn with a not zeta'd G9 C3 beats the Triumvirare in an infinite loop. With CLS teams it's one thing, they have huge damage, but at least you can take a turn, even if you are with 4 toons left before you can move first.
    There's need for more than tilting Traya in P3. Either Finn or C3 needs a change, because this duo is affecting more than raids.
  • It definitely poses a problem in arena as well. You can say that I'm also at fault here for not having faster mods (my Thrawn is 295 speed), but I came up against an undergeared zFinn team (G9 C3-PO, RT, Han, Chewy) and they basically got into an "infinite" loop before I could even take a turn.
    It's kind of funny how a G11 Finn with a not zeta'd G9 C3 beats the Triumvirare in an infinite loop. With CLS teams it's one thing, they have huge damage, but at least you can take a turn, even if you are with 4 toons left before you can move first.
    There's need for more than tilting Traya in P3. Either Finn or C3 needs a change, because this duo is affecting more than raids.

    The problem there isnt Finn but C3p0

    I have met a similar team but with Cls-lead with no special mods and not max and with a maxed triumvirate and Thrawn team with Thrawn speed of 321 i got at most 2 turns in 4 tries. Only one able to survive a while is Traya. And this is in offence.

    I cant see any other team faring better in the long run except maybe Revan.

    This feels as a huge futute problem as well, since Every new toon released must have some kind of counter to this to be viable.

    The best way to fix this is to change the translation ability so it doesn't reduce cooldowns.
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    and FYI, they almost certainly won't nerf 3p0. If they nerf Finn, it won't hurt his usefulness running regular resistance at all.

    In other words, whatever "plan" they come up with will affect only the team that can solo p3. You don't have to hold back on leveling or gearing any of them as they are all valuable in their niche.
    I trust that logic as much as I trust "Nightsister Acolyte is virtually untouched" after they destroyed her usefulness in the arena.

  • Dk_rek
    1310 posts Member
    edited January 7
    YaeVizsla wrote: »

    Whatever the change, it has to affect more than just P3 hSith.

    I cant wait for HSTR back to being its boring ole self IMO... but only nerf until i get 3PO cause im selfish hypocritical butthead ;)
  • Sirlagzalott
    650 posts Member
    edited January 7
    We're still struggling with folks only posting damage in one phase taking top 3 rewards. Personally, it seems wrong that people that farmed and are plugging away on P1, 2 and 4 are getting shafted by someone cherry picking a single run. Also, people have abandoned previous farms such as Chex. It'll be interesting to hear a path forward so we can advise our members.

    In the meantime, we're contemplating a no-C3PO rule in P3 which puts guilds in an awkward position. We put forth to our members for a vote.

    @CG_SBCrumb any updates?
  • TVF wrote: »
    I see zero problem with Finn's zeta outside the Sith raid.
    I’ve not seen if first hand but some are complaining that the ‘loop’ can occur in arena. If true, I suspect it’s rare or they’d be a lot more uproar.

    Cuz zinn resistance team wont hold.
    Drop 150 ranks everyday is not fun.
  • I hope they rework Finn's leadership, so no more infinite loop, and AI peforms better.
  • At this point i dont think the InFinnite Squad needs to be fixed, the raid has been out for almost a year which means the upper guilds already have a huge headstart with all the extra g12 pieces and other rewards. Bulldog already noted there's other characters that break the raid as well, this squad is only effective in p3, it gets destroyed in p4. So i dont really see what the problem is.
    If you decide to nerf Finn or whatever, please bring back Revan early (like when you brought JT Rey back after 3months after nerfing expose in the first month of the sith raid) or at least keep 3po viable for 10-15% damage in p3 of the sith raid. Im so tired of chex mix
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