GA Fleet Imbalance
There is a persistent isssue with how ships function in GA. If you have a very strong fleet then you are automatically disadvantaged in GA. Because fleets account for very little of your battle scores, they become almost meaningless.
I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.
This is especially emphasized when an opponent can view your fleet strength during setup and decide to make getting to the fleet battle near impossible.
I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.
This is especially emphasized when an opponent can view your fleet strength during setup and decide to make getting to the fleet battle near impossible.
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How do you figure you're disadvantaged? You should be able to set a strong defense and still have offense, or save your best for attacking and still put up a decent defense. Someone who doesn't pay attention to fleets will have to choose one or the other, and likely will lose both anyways.
If you can't get to the fleet zone, well, that's a different issue.
I don't see, a strong fleet as a disadvantage.
Your opponent has the option of setting a strong front line and still attacking with good squads.
It's not about having a strong fleet puts you at a disadvantage, it's having more than two strong fleets puts you at a disadvantage.
If you have two maxed out fleets, then you can potentially beat there's and not lose yours giving you a huge swing.
If you have all the sith, all the bounty hunters, all the rebel and all the republic ships maxed out then I grant you, that a big wack of your gp you won't be using.
But the only GA round i've lost, I lost on fleets not the ground.
I play the game for fun, if you don't like content, don't like the game, then why are you here?
And this is why you save more of your strong characters for offense, when you believe your defensive fleet will hold the zone.
If you defend with only B- and C-teams against an opponent with more squad GP, rhe odds are good that they will break all of your ground zones, leaving you needing to break both of your opponent's frontal ground zones plus either their fleet or rear ground zone just to have a chance of winning on points. Not good odds when they have more & stronger squads than you do.
As I said before, I face this strategic challenge every GA.
Your only hope of winning is a balanced strategy, superior modding, a focused roster and good combat skills. If the squad GP difference is too large or your opponent also knows how to mod well or is highly focused, you may not have any chance at all.
Fortunately the average player's modding is not very good (and in some cases downright atrocious) and their rosters are not laser-focused, giving you a chance to eke out a victory but basically you have to be better than them to compensate for the imbalance.
These are basically troll comments with no real insight into the problem. I suffer the same issue the OP does. I tried the weak D strategy but I still ran out of good teams so I lost but a few points. My opponent trampled my defenses getting a near perfect score. For people that have refined squad rosters, it’s virtually impossible to win when you’re 200k-300k behind them in squad power. Strategy should never be “hope I get matched up with 7 **** that think g12 ugnaught and 60 other g8 toons constitutes a good roster.”
Since Han’s falcon came out, the problem has only amplified. Now you only need 2 fleets (rebels for O and BH for D). Rebels nearly always win if you have good rebel ships and know how to use them. And BH on D is just a good fleet that allows you to get defense points. Having good geonosians or empire ships does nothing but hurt me in matchmaking because they will never be used.
I have faced and defeated players with more character GP than I have and several more zetas and gear 12 characters. The ones that give me trouble are almost invariably the ones with higher arena ranks and ones with better mods.
So what about someone that does pay attention to fleets but hasn’t kept up with each meta in the last year? What about someone that has Han’s Falcon and strong rebels but chose not to focus on any other set? What about someone that has spent some effort on ships but does not have a fully developed roster? What about someone that has only developed 2 fleets?
Using an extreme to prove your point only shows that you don’t have a solid ground to stand on in the first place. Sure ship heavy people will have an advantage against those few people that managed to get high GP and put no focus whatsoever into ships. But what do we do against everyone else???
Glad you can clearly see the problem. Most of the other replies have valid points with the emphasis on strategy, but it still comes down to being disadvantaged. Any opponent worth their salt can still win. Especially if the other team protects their fleet zone behind their top defense teams.
I have found that a sound strategy on my part will help me win 2 out of three and I always place in the #2-4 range.
I have both the current meta and the prior meta and am ended everyday at #1 in fleets. Why am I penalized in GA for this?
If I have 1.1mil fleet GP and 1.6m squad GP and there is one space battle and 5 squad battles. How will I have a fair chance when almost everyone else I go against may have a 2m squad GP and 700k fleet GP? Even if I win on fleet defense and fleet offense, that is 2 out of 10 battles. Now I have 8 battles and my remaining GP is 400k less than my opponent. This can cover up to 4 g12 teams with multiple zetas on each. How is that fair?
Key words:"...when you believe, your defensive fleet will hold the zone."
Who cares if the opponent clears all your ground troops in first attempt?
Believe it or not: My alt successfully applied this strategy in 3 battles now against opponents with much weaker ships.
Well, it's a requirement, that you can clear his board, for that strategy to work.
I don't believe, you understood the strategy, I described, because this isn't it.
“Believe it or not: My alt successfully applied this strategy in 3 battles now against opponents with much weaker ships.”
Give us some details on your alt. Total GP and ship GP?
How your alt only been successful 3 times out of all the GA battles? That’s not very successful.
I say this is trolling because you’re quick to jump on any post like this and tell people that they suffer from bad strategy without ever getting into details. I’m telling you it’s not bad strategy...it’s unfair matches.
“Well, it's a requirement, that you can clear his board, for that strategy to work.”
I did...so now what is the problem with my strategy?
“I don't believe, you understood the strategy, I described, because this isn't it.”
I don’t believe you understand the problem that me and the OP are facing which is why your so quick to say it’s bad strategy.
My opponent split his teams to leave strong D and have some strong teams on O. I put all midrange teams on D leaving only my best teams and trash toons (about 5 g8 guys) for O. I beat each of his teams except one on the first try and with a near perfect score. That last team I beat on the second try. I had to whittle his team down because I ran out of good players to crush him.
I lost by 25 points.
Losing by 25 under those conditions means that I needed to win that last battle on the first try, not lose anyone in the fight, and/or have a couple more toons end battles with 100% health and protection.
If I literally ran out of competitive toons by this last fight then how exactly is this system fair and my strategy lacking? If 45% of my GP can translate into 25% of my total score but 30% of my opponent’s GP can translate into 25% of his score, how is this system fair?
Yea I get 2 wins in every GA as well. Usually it’s the last guy with a refined roster that just stomps me. The only thing people like you and I can do (right now) is focus our fleet development to just the current meta and ignore all other ships (I’m stuck but you have a lower GP so you can get out). At the same time, just refine your squad roster for a few months until eventually your ratio of ship GP to squad GP gets closer to the competition.
If you are below 2 million, what they said above is very much true, since you can and will also clear his ground teams at max score with ease, and then it comes down to ships, where you likely will have the advantage since his fleet will likely not be at par with yours.
But if you are asking who is better off in GA, someone with a roster of 40-42 toons with gear 12+, 6E mods maxed for speed, and maxed out bounty ships, phoenix ships and the new falcon plus only 2 capital ships maxed out, or someone with a diverse base, the answer is, a focused roster will win with ease, since he will have about 20% higher power where it matters, whereas you will have dozens of toons and ship that are useless to you. However, it was you who actually selected to develop those extra toons for whatever reason, nobody has actually forced you to do so. When you have done that, you have selected a long-term strategy and GA will always stay tougher for you.
In fact I know that for a fact, since with a focused roster I cannot do some events (no ewoks so no C3PO, no NS so I miss some zetas, etc.), but I usually end up either 1st or 2nd if I face someone who has about 30% higher GP total than me. Because I have chosen to invest in zetas rather than activating all ships, and have discraded virtually every mod that does not add at least +10 speed, I can actually win even against people who are close to 40% higher GP in me both in Arena, GA, territory, etc. And yes, I understand I miss on some things to benefit from other things, so there is no *pure* benefit of playing my way.
How are you getting matched against people in GA with 40% higher GP??? I’m hoping that was just an error in statement.
What I have been arguing for for a while (and what I think the OP is arguing) is for a system that is balanced in matchmaking using ship GP and points obtained from ships. Depth of ship rosters isn’t really a thing any more, so why am I penalized for it?
Perhaps we can go down to 1 squad territory with 1 to 2 teams on defense. Would that be a fair system?
I’m not asking to win every GA. My squad arena is full of about 200-300 whales so I learned early on that I won’t win much and I’m ok with it. What I’m tired of in GA is that I have to spend hours planning the perfect strategy and then execute it flawlessly and hope for good RNG on some battles. And after all that, my opponent with 200k more squad power can afford to mess up a few times and still beat me.
I’ve made this proposal once before and I’ll make it again: adjust matchmaking to weight ship GP with the % of total points that can be obtained from ships.
1.48 million character GP
1.15 million ship GP
That's not what I calimed. I claimed that I had used that strategy 3 times and won. In addition all those 3 times were when up against opponents with significantly more g12 characters than I - but with weaker ships than I.
Dude, please read my posts again, instead of going all personal. I never claimed the OP used a bad strategy. I have no idea what strategy he uses. I simply suggested this strategy - which uses his strong ship to his advantage.
So, you're claiming that you cleared his board - and that your fleet survived - but still you lost?
(The strategy requires that your ships are strong enough to survive any attack from the opponent. It's all there in my previous comments.)
I never claimed that the OP - or you - use a bad strategy. I have no idea what strategy you use, so I can't - and I didn't - comment on that.
The problem described in the original post is a claimed problem with having strong ships. How can having strong ships be a disadvantage?
(Yes, having a lot of useless 'fluff' ships GP is a disadvantage, but that's not the problem discussed by the OP).
If you cleared his board with only 1 second attempt, and you lost still, then I assume your fleet was defeated. Without having strong ships (which is what the OP is discussing) then my suggested strategy is not for you. It also indicates further, that you didn't understand my sugested strategy.
Have a nice one.
SWGOH Newsflash: Whales demand the game have an overall sim button, details as they happen! LOL
Yes, I cleared the board and so did my opponent. If you read my previous posts, you’ll see that I mention the new falcon means you only need 2 fleets. My opponent had the falcon, rebels, and bounty hunters. I have geo trio, BH, rebels, and empire...there’s no way to use geo trio and empire under this new system. It’s not the same as squad where you benefit from having the current meta team plus most of the previous teams (resistance, NS, Sith, etc.).
And your alt is not in the same situation as me. I’m at 3.4 million total GP with 1.6 on ships. 1.15 million GP is basically two good fleets (which is exactly what I said before). I doubt many of your brackets have the new falcon so all you need to defend is HT.
2) If your opponent can comfortably hold the squad zone in front of their fleet zone then they can set a trash fleet on defense and use their arena fleet to attack, potentially giving them a good chance to break your fleet zone too.
2) If your opponent can hold the squad zone in front of their fleet zone, they can set a trash fleet on defense and use their arena fleet on offense, giving them a good chance to beat whatever fleet you set
I have one A team, 2 B+ (not quite arena-grade), 3 B and 4 C teams. On the current map, I have to place 5 defensive teams, leaving me 5 squads to attack. I do not have the luxury of strong offense and defense and I have no room for mistakes.
My first round opponent had about 1,020k squad GP, not laser focused but still more A-, B- and C-teams available. I went balanced, he went defense. We both defeated one squad from each front zone. He won by 4 pts in the end, though I was up by 2 after the first exchange. He also lost 3 squads trying to zerg one of my B+ teams but that doesn't count against him because my squad held.
If I had gone with an offensive strategy he would have been able to clear at least 2 if not all 3 of my squad zones with his B- and C- teams and potentially take a shot at my fleet. I would only have been able to clear one of his front zones and the rear behind it, leaving him with a decisive win.
My second opponent has about 1,120k squad GP, a top-heavy roster and good modding. There is literally no way I can beat him. The only reason I am winning is that he is choosing not to fight.
In that case:
If you did have a point using your example to discuss my suggested strategy, you will need to explain your point. Your example seems pointless to me, given the requirements for the strategy to work.
Have a nice one.
Your roster GP is irrelevant. The only relevant thing in our discussion is wether your defensive fleet is strong enough to survive.
The original post discusses strong ships - not fluff GP from ships - and the fact that there's only one fleet zone, but 3 character zones.
You should read my previous posts as I explained it in those. Both me and my opponent had rebels ships with the new falcon. A requirement of the falcon is good BH ships (arguably the second best fleet). If you’ve ever played with the new rebel fleet then you would know that it’s only easily beaten on D by other rebel fleets. On offense, if you know how to play the fleet, you’ll win at least 90% of the time.
My opponent set BH as defense and used rebels on offense. I did the same. We both cleared ships with relative ease.
I’m not sure what your point is here other than more trolling.
You must not have the new falcon or you would understand my point. If you can give me the lineup of ships that survives consistently on D against the new rebel fleet, I’ll back down from this argument...
And this is the reason why my suggested strategy includes saving all strong teams for offense and and placing a Chewie defense.
But yes, if your opponent has a team, which you don't have a counter for, and you can't defeat it with anything, he can block two zones, no matter how strong yours and your opponent's fleets are - but I believe that's besides the OP's point.
If your opponent can beat your defensive fleet, I wouldn't recommend a Chewie defense. I never did. From my very first comment:
This is GA - not fleet arena. Wether your fleet holds on defense or not depends just as much on your opponent's ships as it depends on yours.
The OP discusses strong ships in GA - not in general. He discusses having strong ships / weak characters against opponents with strong characters instead.
It really shouldn't be necessary to remind you of this.
Added:
Yes, my alt has the Falcon. It doesn't have two strong fleets, though, due to quite weak/mediocre rebel ships (g9 Chewie, g8 Ackbar, g8/9 Phoenix to name a few examples).
Well, I suggested the strategy in scenarios where your defensive fleet can hold on defense. Your example is pointless in that regard, and I don't intend to waste more time discussing it.
No, the OP discusses imbalance in ship scores with respect to matchmaking. You’re the one that turned into a discussion of lack of strategy which eventually led to my last comment. You did this just like you’ve done on two of my previous discussions on this topic which is why I keep commenting that you’re trolling these discussions.
And to your first statement...really??? Is that how GA works??? I had no idea that my opponents ships factor into him beating my defense. It’s not like I’ve made a comment about that previously.