What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
again, this is more than just interpretation. We did testing.
There is absolutely 100% no possible way it works the way you are saying it does. We wanted clarification too and never got it. Either accept the findings of our testing or do your own, but the matter is not a question anymore.
It gives 200% of his armor and resistance pen to allies, not 100% armor pen to allies, period. Now please, do not attempt to confuse this issue further by responding with your point of view again unless you have done some testing and math to back it up.
Armor and resistance work on a rating system. This means that the more of them you have, the less effective they are. So 200 armor pen vs someone who has 200 armor, will negate their 20% armor, but 200 armor pen vs someone who has 1000 armor will only negate somewhere around 5% armor. (i'm quoting from memory here, my numbers may be off, but they should illustrate the point adequately).
It is set up that way so that no one could ever approach 100% armor. Why? Because 100% armor would make them immune to physical damage. Hence it is easy to test whether or not T3 gives out 100% armor pen. If there's any damage reduction whatsoever on a tank, then he does not. Period.
So, anyone can feel free to test this themselves if they doubt our findings.
Does defense resist defense penetration or is the rating altogether different? i.e. in your example 1000 def to 200 def pen would make the def pen only a fifth as effective.
I understand that you are using example numbers and my relation is also just an example
but would not have 4X the armor of the guy with 200.
Understood everything you said until this. Please elaborate
Someone with 200 armor would have exactly 23.88% damage reduction.
Someone with 800 armor would have exactly 55.65% damage reduction.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
Everything but the end of what you said makes sense. The kit literally says + 100% defense penetration. I dont even know what he starts with at gear 12, but we know its greater than zero percent.
Lets assume at gear 12 his base is 10%. If the kit read like hk47's then he would gain 100%, making it 20%. But when adding percentages it would be 110%.
Everything from that point forward makes sense, the way swgoh.gg posted it.
Again, i am not at all arguing how the zeta effects other droids. My original argument was that the zeta works at below gear 12, because someone thought it was useless.
If the kit does not work the way its worded in game then it needs to be reworded.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
Everything but the end of what you said makes sense. The kit literally says + 100% defense penetration. I dont even know what he starts with at gear 12, but we know its greater than zero percent.
Lets assume at gear 12 his base is 10%. If the kit read like hk47's then he would gain 100%, making it 20%. But when adding percentages it would be 110%.
Everything from that point forward makes sense, the way swgoh.gg posted it.
Again, i am not at all arguing how the zeta effects other droids. My original argument was that the zeta works at below gear 12, because someone thought it was useless.
If the kit does not work the way its worded in game then it needs to be reworded.
It's definitely poorly worded. He gains 100% of his defense pen, then gives that doubled amount to every droid (including himself) so they end up with double his in panel amount and he ends up with 4x that.
I sincerely appreciate everyone’s input into this thread but I currently have no faith that anything is correct. My T3 is maxed and double zeta. I cannot confirm droid allies hit any harder with him present whatsoever (non crits). Don’t get fooled by the escalating crit damage-that does appear to work. Look at non crit damage and run tests with and without T3 present. It does not change.
So to begin with there's a difference between giving 100% defense penetration and +100% defense penetration. T3's zeta states the latter. So, before gear 12 T3 has 0 defense penetration. What this zeta does is ADDS 100% defense penetration (which is a combination of armor penetration and special penetration). So with this zeta it gives him +100% and then shares that 100% with droid allies. At gear 12 he has 126 armor penetration, with the zeta it will add 100 to this and then he'll be at 226 total, which he will then fully give to droid allies.
TLDR: its still useful.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
Everything but the end of what you said makes sense. The kit literally says + 100% defense penetration. I dont even know what he starts with at gear 12, but we know its greater than zero percent.
Lets assume at gear 12 his base is 10%. If the kit read like hk47's then he would gain 100%, making it 20%. But when adding percentages it would be 110%.
Everything from that point forward makes sense, the way swgoh.gg posted it.
Again, i am not at all arguing how the zeta effects other droids. My original argument was that the zeta works at below gear 12, because someone thought it was useless.
If the kit does not work the way its worded in game then it needs to be reworded.
I realize my response was poorly worded. Truth is I got confused with all the percentage talk because defense pen is NOT a percent based stat--neither is defense.
Potency or tenacity, yes. 10% + 100% would mean 110%. But the wording of T3 is pretty clear that his defense pen doubles.
You are doing the wrong math. It's a % based on a base number. 10% of a base of 50 is 5. 100% of a base of 50 is 50. 100% of a base of 0 is still **** 0. They arent adding 100% to a percentage they are added it to a base number. 10% of 0 is 0. 50% of 0 is 0. 10000000900007676% of 0 is 0..
Sure if the defense stat was based off a percentage like potency and tenacity you may have a point. But it isnt.
BUT ALL OF THAT DOESNT MATTER. look at the coded added stuff. IT DOESNT EFFECT THE DEFENSE PENETRATION ONE SINGLE BIT. Jesus, not a single word in the code mentions defense pen. So in all they typed in defense pen instead of typing armor/resistance.
Even the screen shots you posted shows that defense penetration IS armour and resistance penetration, and the way it stacks is adding a percentage of 100%.
Your screenshots only proved what i said. Your over-analyzing it way too much.
Even in coding, addition means addition, multiplication means multiplication.
In any form, and in any language in the world, math is universal, and math is math.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
Everything but the end of what you said makes sense. The kit literally says + 100% defense penetration. I dont even know what he starts with at gear 12, but we know its greater than zero percent.
Lets assume at gear 12 his base is 10%. If the kit read like hk47's then he would gain 100%, making it 20%. But when adding percentages it would be 110%.
Everything from that point forward makes sense, the way swgoh.gg posted it.
Again, i am not at all arguing how the zeta effects other droids. My original argument was that the zeta works at below gear 12, because someone thought it was useless.
If the kit does not work the way its worded in game then it needs to be reworded.
I realize my response was poorly worded. Truth is I got confused with all the percentage talk because defense pen is NOT a percent based stat--neither is defense.
Potency or tenacity, yes. 10% + 100% would mean 110%. But the wording of T3 is pretty clear that his defense pen doubles.
I get that, my question is why does every character in the game show defense penetration as a percentage if it is a base value? That needs to be changed, because they are two different things.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
Everything but the end of what you said makes sense. The kit literally says + 100% defense penetration. I dont even know what he starts with at gear 12, but we know its greater than zero percent.
Lets assume at gear 12 his base is 10%. If the kit read like hk47's then he would gain 100%, making it 20%. But when adding percentages it would be 110%.
Everything from that point forward makes sense, the way swgoh.gg posted it.
Again, i am not at all arguing how the zeta effects other droids. My original argument was that the zeta works at below gear 12, because someone thought it was useless.
If the kit does not work the way its worded in game then it needs to be reworded.
I realize my response was poorly worded. Truth is I got confused with all the percentage talk because defense pen is NOT a percent based stat--neither is defense.
Potency or tenacity, yes. 10% + 100% would mean 110%. But the wording of T3 is pretty clear that his defense pen doubles.
I get that, my question is why does every character in the game show defense penetration as a percentage if it is a base value? That needs to be changed, because they are two different things.
Right, it's super confusing. The percentage it shows is the damage mitigation. But that value is based off of a flat stat. They should maybe just print both values. Or, if picking 1, put the flat.
What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.
0% + 100% = 100%
(Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.
I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.
It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..
I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.
So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
Everything but the end of what you said makes sense. The kit literally says + 100% defense penetration. I dont even know what he starts with at gear 12, but we know its greater than zero percent.
Lets assume at gear 12 his base is 10%. If the kit read like hk47's then he would gain 100%, making it 20%. But when adding percentages it would be 110%.
Everything from that point forward makes sense, the way swgoh.gg posted it.
Again, i am not at all arguing how the zeta effects other droids. My original argument was that the zeta works at below gear 12, because someone thought it was useless.
If the kit does not work the way its worded in game then it needs to be reworded.
I realize my response was poorly worded. Truth is I got confused with all the percentage talk because defense pen is NOT a percent based stat--neither is defense.
Potency or tenacity, yes. 10% + 100% would mean 110%. But the wording of T3 is pretty clear that his defense pen doubles.
I get that, my question is why does every character in the game show defense penetration as a percentage if it is a base value? That needs to be changed, because they are two different things.
Right, it's super confusing. The percentage it shows is the damage mitigation. But that value is based off of a flat stat. They should maybe just print both values. Or, if picking 1, put the flat.
Or since defense pen is just resistance pen and damage pen. Maybe don't list it at all. the kit would have made so much more sense if the math translated the way its written.
I still say its 0% + 100% = 100%. Until it is confirmed one way or another by a developer, I believe you guys are severely over thinking or misreading things.
I'm going with the wording is clear and simple.
Go with the wording of the mechanic, not the text of the ability then.
It says Multiplicative 100% that means it isn't +100% because it is not additive.
This is for when he modifies his own stat.
Now on the 2nd part he gives that out to others.
As I stated, it says 100% * context value (additive).
Hmm, why does it say it is getting his value for resistance penetration? I wonder...
You have been shown the mechanics. That's as good as a dev's word.
Also we did lots of testing to verify how this works based on armor %. Based on our testing, there is absolutely 100% no friggin way he gives droids 100% armor/resistance pen. He gives them 200% of his armor/resistance pen.
The mechanics on swgoh.gg
I find your over-faith in code... disturbing
The mechanics on swgoh.gg are taken directly from the game.
I find your lack of faith in code to be similar to not believing in math.
I think what he meant was.... just because it is coded one way doesn't actually mean the skill was intended to be coded in that way. We have plenty of historical examples of when CG coded something that did not entirely match a description. In those cases, one of two things happens: either the description gets changed or the code.
In this case the skill says +100%. I don't know about you, but the math I was taught means when I see a + sign I ADD. Yet the code clearly says multiplicative. This is a discrepancy.
So either the description needs changed or the code needs changed. I could care less which.
I still say its 0% + 100% = 100%. Until it is confirmed one way or another by a developer, I believe you guys are severely over thinking or misreading things.
I'm going with the wording is clear and simple.
Go with the wording of the mechanic, not the text of the ability then.
It says Multiplicative 100% that means it isn't +100% because it is not additive.
This is for when he modifies his own stat.
Now on the 2nd part he gives that out to others.
As I stated, it says 100% * context value (additive).
Hmm, why does it say it is getting his value for resistance penetration? I wonder...
You have been shown the mechanics. That's as good as a dev's word.
Also we did lots of testing to verify how this works based on armor %. Based on our testing, there is absolutely 100% no friggin way he gives droids 100% armor/resistance pen. He gives them 200% of his armor/resistance pen.
The mechanics on swgoh.gg
I find your over-faith in code... disturbing
The mechanics on swgoh.gg are taken directly from the game.
I find your lack of faith in code to be similar to not believing in math.
I think what he meant was.... just because it is coded one way doesn't actually mean the skill was intended to be coded in that way. We have plenty of historical examples of when CG coded something that did not entirely match a description. In those cases, one of two things happens: either the description gets changed or the code.
In this case the skill says +100%. I don't know about you, but the math I was taught means when I see a + sign I ADD. Yet the code clearly says multiplicative. This is a discrepancy.
So either the description needs changed or the code needs changed. I could care less which.
Hey peeps
I have one simple question : does this Zeta make a noticeable difference to the damage caused by other Droid allies?
I BELIEVE it does. People also believe in unicorns and bigfoot.
I never tested it but I just feel like it does, like when I feel a storms a comin'. Just a feeling i get way down in the pit of soul.
Sometimes you just know... you know?
Replies
I get that, i bieve we are both right on this. Defense penetration is not a base value, its listed as a plain percentage. 0%. 0% + 100%= 100%. That 100% is given to the defensive penetration stats, ie; armor pen and resistance pen.
Lets assume his defense pen said 10%. 10% + 100%= 110%. In that case 110% boost would be given to both armor penetration and resistamce penetration.
If defense penetration was a base value, then the zeta would have no effect until gear 12.
Under gear 12. T3s zeta simply boost both penetration stats linked to defense penetration by 100.
I understand how the interaction works if its written correctly.
The initial percentage t3 recieves is his defense penetration plus 100%. The resulting amount (at least 100%), then effects the sub stats (armor and resistance pen) the way that swgoh.gg says as a multiplication equation.
Even with everything swgoh.gg posted, it still effects the defense penetration stat the same way.
All the swgoh.gg description does is explain in further detail what happens after, or as a result of the initial x% + 100%, which makes it irrelevant to the original argument. I never argued that part (the what happens next).
As far as interaction with other droids, all I said was it makes them hit harder... its like people are trying to explain to how a turbo works, when I'm talking about starting a car.
TYVM
No, pretty sure it modifies the flat number, not the percentage.
So if you had 200, it would become 400 and the 400 would be added to the allies. Then that will translate into % damage reduction based on level.
Also, in your example, if he started with 10%, the new value would be 20% for t3. 100% of his 10% is another 10%. Then he shares that 20% additively, so someone else with 10% would now have 30%.
Everything but the end of what you said makes sense. The kit literally says + 100% defense penetration. I dont even know what he starts with at gear 12, but we know its greater than zero percent.
Lets assume at gear 12 his base is 10%. If the kit read like hk47's then he would gain 100%, making it 20%. But when adding percentages it would be 110%.
Everything from that point forward makes sense, the way swgoh.gg posted it.
Again, i am not at all arguing how the zeta effects other droids. My original argument was that the zeta works at below gear 12, because someone thought it was useless.
If the kit does not work the way its worded in game then it needs to be reworded.
It's definitely poorly worded. He gains 100% of his defense pen, then gives that doubled amount to every droid (including himself) so they end up with double his in panel amount and he ends up with 4x that.
TLDR: its still useful.
I realize my response was poorly worded. Truth is I got confused with all the percentage talk because defense pen is NOT a percent based stat--neither is defense.
Potency or tenacity, yes. 10% + 100% would mean 110%. But the wording of T3 is pretty clear that his defense pen doubles.
In English, math is maths. Or mathematics.
I get that, my question is why does every character in the game show defense penetration as a percentage if it is a base value? That needs to be changed, because they are two different things.
Right, it's super confusing. The percentage it shows is the damage mitigation. But that value is based off of a flat stat. They should maybe just print both values. Or, if picking 1, put the flat.
Or since defense pen is just resistance pen and damage pen. Maybe don't list it at all. the kit would have made so much more sense if the math translated the way its written.
I think what he meant was.... just because it is coded one way doesn't actually mean the skill was intended to be coded in that way. We have plenty of historical examples of when CG coded something that did not entirely match a description. In those cases, one of two things happens: either the description gets changed or the code.
In this case the skill says +100%. I don't know about you, but the math I was taught means when I see a + sign I ADD. Yet the code clearly says multiplicative. This is a discrepancy.
So either the description needs changed or the code needs changed. I could care less which.
Yes
I have one simple question : does this Zeta make a noticeable difference to the damage caused by other Droid allies?
I BELIEVE it does. People also believe in unicorns and bigfoot.
I never tested it but I just feel like it does, like when I feel a storms a comin'. Just a feeling i get way down in the pit of soul.
Sometimes you just know... you know?
No.