How the falcon made me lose interest in GA.

Replies

  • Kyno wrote: »
    tl;dr lost once, now hates GA
    /rolleyes

    It isn't just the loss, it's the fashion in which I lost. I clearly won the character part and lost because of a broken ship that cannot be defeated

    You lost because your opponent had a better lineup, and farming strategy.

    He managed to do something you could not and he won because of that. Isnt that how it's supposed to work?

    I actually had the better line up, he just paid for a p2w ship

    What it really sounds like is you actually have a very character-heavy overall GP. So on the last few GA matches which had no ships you were playing against handicapped players (who had invested more in ships than you did), which worked out to your advantage. Now that there’s ships in this current GA match, your previous advantage was taken away and so your previous strategy no longer works. Maybe, instead of trying to sweep your opponents, look at their lineups, and if they have stronger ships than you do, put in stronger defenses than previously so they can’t sweep the board. If you take all territories except ships and they take all territories but your backside characters, you’ll still win because the character territories are worth more than ship territories.
    TLDR: Change your strategy if you know you can’t sweep the board on offense.
  • Dk_rek
    3299 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    tl;dr lost once, now hates GA
    /rolleyes

    It isn't just the loss, it's the fashion in which I lost. I clearly won the character part and lost because of a broken ship that cannot be defeated

    You lost because your opponent had a better lineup, and farming strategy.

    He managed to do something you could not and he won because of that. Isnt that how it's supposed to work?

    I actually had the better line up, he just paid for a p2w ship

    What it really sounds like is you actually have a very character-heavy overall GP. So on the last few GA matches which had no ships you were playing against handicapped players (who had invested more in ships than you did), which worked out to your advantage. Now that there’s ships in this current GA match, your previous advantage was taken away and so your previous strategy no longer works. Maybe, instead of trying to sweep your opponents, look at their lineups, and if they have stronger ships than you do, put in stronger defenses than previously so they can’t sweep the board. If you take all territories except ships and they take all territories but your backside characters, you’ll still win because the character territories are worth more than ship territories.
    TLDR: Change your strategy if you know you can’t sweep the board on offense.
    Kyno wrote: »
    tl;dr lost once, now hates GA
    /rolleyes

    It isn't just the loss, it's the fashion in which I lost. I clearly won the character part and lost because of a broken ship that cannot be defeated

    You lost because your opponent had a better lineup, and farming strategy.

    He managed to do something you could not and he won because of that. Isnt that how it's supposed to work?

    I actually had the better line up, he just paid for a p2w ship

    What it really sounds like is you actually have a very character-heavy overall GP. So on the last few GA matches which had no ships you were playing against handicapped players (who had invested more in ships than you did), which worked out to your advantage. Now that there’s ships in this current GA match, your previous advantage was taken away and so your previous strategy no longer works. Maybe, instead of trying to sweep your opponents, look at their lineups, and if they have stronger ships than you do, put in stronger defenses than previously so they can’t sweep the board. If you take all territories except ships and they take all territories but your backside characters, you’ll still win because the character territories are worth more than ship territories.
    TLDR: Change your strategy if you know you can’t sweep the board on offense.

    “Sweep the leg”
  • Dk_rek
    3299 posts Member
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    tl;dr lost once, now hates GA
    /rolleyes

    It isn't just the loss, it's the fashion in which I lost. I clearly won the character part and lost because of a broken ship that cannot be defeated

    You lost because your opponent had a better lineup, and farming strategy.

    He managed to do something you could not and he won because of that. Isnt that how it's supposed to work?

    I actually had the better line up, he just paid for a p2w ship

    What it really sounds like is you actually have a very character-heavy overall GP. So on the last few GA matches which had no ships you were playing against handicapped players (who had invested more in ships than you did), which worked out to your advantage. Now that there’s ships in this current GA match, your previous advantage was taken away and so your previous strategy no longer works. Maybe, instead of trying to sweep your opponents, look at their lineups, and if they have stronger ships than you do, put in stronger defenses than previously so they can’t sweep the board. If you take all territories except ships and they take all territories but your backside characters, you’ll still win because the character territories are worth more than ship territories.
    TLDR: Change your strategy if you know you can’t sweep the board on offense.
    Kyno wrote: »
    tl;dr lost once, now hates GA
    /rolleyes

    It isn't just the loss, it's the fashion in which I lost. I clearly won the character part and lost because of a broken ship that cannot be defeated

    You lost because your opponent had a better lineup, and farming strategy.

    He managed to do something you could not and he won because of that. Isnt that how it's supposed to work?

    I actually had the better line up, he just paid for a p2w ship

    What it really sounds like is you actually have a very character-heavy overall GP. So on the last few GA matches which had no ships you were playing against handicapped players (who had invested more in ships than you did), which worked out to your advantage. Now that there’s ships in this current GA match, your previous advantage was taken away and so your previous strategy no longer works. Maybe, instead of trying to sweep your opponents, look at their lineups, and if they have stronger ships than you do, put in stronger defenses than previously so they can’t sweep the board. If you take all territories except ships and they take all territories but your backside characters, you’ll still win because the character territories are worth more than ship territories.
    TLDR: Change your strategy if you know you can’t sweep the board on offense.

    “Sweep the leg”

  • Dk_rek
    3299 posts Member
    The ships givith and takeith away
  • Gorem
    1190 posts Member
    DK_Rek, you really need to spam less man, lol.

    Trying to up your post count so you seem more legit or something? lol.

    Anyway
    My opponent set a garbage defence, saved everything for offence and had a 7* falcon under AA lead as his fleet. Told me his strategy has worked for every round so far. Essentially winning because of one ship. Seems kitten to me, ruins my perfect streak as well

    Ouch man, yeah, just listen to all these guys saying the Falcon is not op, look at them all defend their OP ship that they got, probably paying for the p2w ship, they want to defend their broken ship and use it to steal easy wins in arena and GA.

    What I love is people like Dimi4a who has the Falcon and admits to how broken it is and how its ruined ships.

    That's usually the way I see it, when people get this defensive over something, its to protect their investment, they hate actually putting in any effort and want the easy way out. Hence all this "Oh Falcon is easily beatable" Ect.

    The simple fact is. You have Falcon. You are top in arena and auto win against anyone in GA who doesn't have it.

    Same as right now with Revan. You basically need him to be in the top 50, yet alone top 100.

    haha man, Both arena's are so messed up :D
  • You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?
  • You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    Ok let me explain something to you.

    A few people unlocking something for free, due to being crystal hoarders doesn't mean that every free to play needs to be a crystal hoarder. What's the right amount to save? When and how do you plan to spend the crystals that you have hoarded? Do you even care to factor in good/bad drop rates?

    It also required foresight, which clearly should not be part of your criteria for something being f2p or not. The falcon's actual requirements were not officially announced until a couple of weeks prior to the event. Up to this point it was all nothing but speculation. Yes the Bounty Hunters were used for Chewbacca OT and it seemed obvious that BH ships could be used for OT falcon, but that could also be a misleading move to make people waste some energy. The truth is that NOBODY could trully be 100% certain.

    Remember last year, right around this time when Revan was announced to be at works? Many speculated that ST, SA, Nihilus, Sion and even HK but more importantly the first two were going to be needed very soon for the unlock of Revan. It was even 'leaked' on discord that data miners had confirmed this. I remember everyone talking about farming them, and many even did. Turns out things went completely the other way.

    At the end of the day the idea is that there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who are, dare I say, smarter, more disciplined and have a sense for these things, but you cannot judge the entire population based on that criteria.

    The equivalent argument would be that we're all in a classroom and a teacher shows up and gives us 50 pages of material to memorize for next week's test. Everyone fails miserably but a bunch of kids who have photographic memory end up acing the test. When the rest of us complain about the test being too hard and the volume of the material being unrealistic to memorize in the given amount of time, you point to the kids with the photographic memory and you use them as an argument to 'prove' that the test was easy.

    I hope this demonstrates why people day that the falcon was p2w and that the AVERAGE, and average is key here, player couldn't have gotten it without spending at least 80 dollars for the bundle.
  • Dk_rek
    3299 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Gorem wrote: »
    DK_Rek, you really need to spam less man, lol.

    Trying to up your post count so you seem more legit or something? lol.

    The one was a double post I tried to edit out, I usually am just replying to different issues...I probably should multiquote...

    I got it spam less... I won't do something silly like post in the Zfinn thread about how I'm going to post in the Zfinn thread every 24 hours until I get satisfaction :)

    Thank you for the suggestion

    If I could give you one...maybe try being a bit less abusive maybe people would take you seriously then.

    nice "passive aggressive" personal attack tho

    How many posts does it take to be what you consider "legit" TVF has almost 10k I'm a few years behind since most of my posts are movie references.... which is kinda the opposite of trying to be "legit" I mean it's a forum...what kind of person would put the emotional baggage of trying to be taken seriouly on a forum about star wars....cmon man

    EDIT : DEAD SERIOUS thanks for reminding me about multiquote
    Post edited by Dk_rek on
  • You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    You are also counting how many days the BH ships were farmable. This is a clear mistake. If you count days from when the ships became farmable up to the day the falcon left the day, then perhaps with average luck you could get it to 5 stars. Depending of how many refreshes you could afford and how well you could balance things out with ALL THE OTHER FARMS that we have for legendaries. I count the days from the second it was announced that we in fact would need these ships up until the second the event ended and by no means could anyone get it f2p in that amount of time. In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.
  • Dk_rek
    3299 posts Member
    edited February 2019

    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    You are also counting how many days the BH ships were farmable. This is a clear mistake. If you count days from when the ships became farmable up to the day the falcon left the day, then perhaps with average luck you could get it to 5 stars. Depending of how many refreshes you could afford and how well you could balance things out with ALL THE OTHER FARMS that we have for legendaries. I count the days from the second it was announced that we in fact would need these ships up until the second the event ended and by no means could anyone get it f2p in that amount of time. In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.

    Hmm...this is actually an interesting statement.... Players do get crystals every day even if it's not a lot but enough for a refresh or two on nodes.

    What I find interesting about your statement is that a casual player that does not read reddit, facebook, this forum "possibly" had no idea that BH ships would be needed for Falcon.. Though even if not a poster or reader of forums if they have been playing for a few months or more could have deduced that they may have been needed "for something"...but again that's not the point....

    Since you have done the match and calculations obviously just how many shards was it possible to attain since the "offical announcement till the day the event was over ? with say 2 refreshes on each ship node..which is F2P doable ? was 5* possible ?

    But yeah from the "official announcement" your right....maybe not.... but as someone who posts here means you read the forum, maybe other sources you can't "honestly" say you had no idea at least "something" was coming... even casual players who don't post anywhere eventually lurk a little and should have had some foresight that something was coming and start the process to 5*

    I actually like your statement...because it's true from the "official" announcement you probably could not get everything to 5* "maybe".... your actually correct....

    But as a poster between the speculation, the puzzles, the leadup..... anyone who's ever clicked and read posts somewhere actually really did have ample time.... Star Wars fans are pretty die hard..... at least 51% of this game has to lurk or post somewhere...

    It's a good point though if you don't post or read posts and have not locked down the trends in this game.... you did not "probably i did not see your math but agree your prob right" have ample time to get ships to 5* what do you need again 95 shards ? to go from marquee to 5 ? at the usual drop rate of 0-1 per 8 attempts (lol that's how it feels)....
  • You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?
    Some people are just obsessed with P2W and scream it at the drop of a hat.

    Slave 1 is a common ship to level up early in fleet cos everyone knows it's badass... except in this game it isn't. Hounds Tooth has been the tank of choice for a quite a while now and XB is a bit less common but works well with HT. Only IG was generally dismissed as a bad ship.

    Personally, I had Squish 1 7* from way back, HT 7* for while as my arena tank, XB 6* backing up HT and the only thing I had to work on was IG-2000 which wasn't hard to push up to 5* for an unlock even after the Falcon announcement, just using daily crystal income for refreshes. (The idea of hqving a crystal stash is comical to me at this stage)

    As for Falcon being OP, yes it is. So was HT and in the right combo Anakin's Eta-2 and neither of those required 4 other ships, a raid toon and a Legendary toon for unlock.

    What really makes Falcon OP however is pairing it with HT which was already tough to break through and with the addition of the Falcon, you no longer have the luxury of time to grind down Bossk's flying sardine can.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    You guys are arguing sementics. It seems to me your definition of "p2w" isn't the same.
    • The falcon isn't pay 2 win in the sense of that buying the falcon doesn't guarantee a win, not even vs f2p players.
    • The falcon is pay 2 win in the sense of buying the falcon increases your chances to win quite alot.
    So in a way the falcon is both p2w and isn't p2w at the same time, you just got to figure out what the other guy means when he's talking about "p2w".
    Personally i wouldn't even consider the falcon a p2p ship. As in, it's not exclusively owned by p2p players. So eventhough the overwhelming majority of f2p players didn't unlock the falcon, it's still an f2p ship.
    That being said, the impact the falcon has on GA and TW to a lesser extent is a bit much. Then again, if you weren't able to unlock the falcon and aren't able to beat it, you might not deserve to win because you got outperformed by your opponent (who did or didn't spend to get the falcon).
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Dk_rek wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    You are also counting how many days the BH ships were farmable. This is a clear mistake. If you count days from when the ships became farmable up to the day the falcon left the day, then perhaps with average luck you could get it to 5 stars. Depending of how many refreshes you could afford and how well you could balance things out with ALL THE OTHER FARMS that we have for legendaries. I count the days from the second it was announced that we in fact would need these ships up until the second the event ended and by no means could anyone get it f2p in that amount of time. In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.

    Hmm...this is actually an interesting statement.... Players do get crystals every day even if it's not a lot but enough for a refresh or two on nodes.

    What I find interesting about your statement is that a casual player that does not read reddit, facebook, this forum "possibly" had no idea that BH ships would be needed for Falcon.. Though even if not a poster or reader of forums if they have been playing for a few months or more could have deduced that they may have been needed "for something"...but again that's not the point....

    Since you have done the match and calculations obviously just how many shards was it possible to attain since the "offical announcement till the day the event was over ? with say 2 refreshes on each ship node..which is F2P doable ? was 5* possible ?

    But yeah from the "official announcement" your right....maybe not.... but as someone who posts here means you read the forum, maybe other sources you can't "honestly" say you had no idea at least "something" was coming... even casual players who don't post anywhere eventually lurk a little and should have had some foresight that something was coming and start the process to 5*

    I actually like your statement...because it's true from the "official" announcement you probably could not get everything to 5* "maybe".... your actually correct....

    But as a poster between the speculation, the puzzles, the leadup..... anyone who's ever clicked and read posts somewhere actually really did have ample time.... Star Wars fans are pretty die hard..... at least 51% of this game has to lurk or post somewhere...

    It's a good point though if you don't post or read posts and have not locked down the trends in this game.... you did not "probably i did not see your math but agree your prob right" have ample time to get ships to 5* what do you need again 95 shards ? to go from marquee to 5 ? at the usual drop rate of 0-1 per 8 attempts (lol that's how it feels)....

    He's not correct. It's been explained to @PeterBahama numerous times in other threads on these forums how using his specific crystal income he could have started farming the BH ships on the day of the announcement of HMF's requirements (which was linked to in game via the newsletter) with only very edge case bad luck resulting in not meeting the requirements for 5* unlock. But he refuses to admit he made a mistake and complains about it instead.

    It's even more surprising and disingenuous of him because he claims to have previously focused on the ships side of the game. Given that the BH ships were the clearly dominant faction in ships prior to them being needed to unlock HMF it's also a mistake on his part not to have been farming them anyway (regardless of HMF) given his claimed aim of using ships for his crystal income.

    Myself and other posters wouldn't be so blunt and rude in pointing this out over and over if he wasn't so persistent in complaining about it rather than being part of the solution to discussing ways to get around the fact that the ship is so game breakingly overpowered.

    Completely agree it's made fleet arena very boring and certainly biases Grand Arena results just as Revan does on the character side of the game. But it's not a P2W ship and that's just not in dispute by anyone that's looking at this impartially.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    tl;dr lost once, now hates GA
    /rolleyes

    It isn't just the loss, it's the fashion in which I lost. I clearly won the character part and lost because of a broken ship that cannot be defeated

    You lost because your opponent had a better lineup, and farming strategy.

    He managed to do something you could not and he won because of that. Isnt that how it's supposed to work?

    I actually had the better line up, he just paid for a p2w ship

    Isn't the whole point of p2w to win...?

    Also there are multiple offensive counters to falcon, but all get thrashed about on defense. Put in a bad fleet on D and use specific counters to beat his falcon. That's what I did this entire GA, I don't have Falcon either, but won all 3 of my matches this round because I could still beat Falcon on offense. Falcon isn't unbeatable, and as long as you have Cassian to reinforce you can pretty much always take out the falcon. You might not be able to beat the fleet perfectly through, but once the falcon is gone even a TM loaded rebel team isn't great, the falcon is the only ship that matters.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    Ok let me explain something to you.

    A few people unlocking something for free, due to being crystal hoarders doesn't mean that every free to play needs to be a crystal hoarder. What's the right amount to save? When and how do you plan to spend the crystals that you have hoarded? Do you even care to factor in good/bad drop rates?

    It also required foresight, which clearly should not be part of your criteria for something being f2p or not. The falcon's actual requirements were not officially announced until a couple of weeks prior to the event. Up to this point it was all nothing but speculation. Yes the Bounty Hunters were used for Chewbacca OT and it seemed obvious that BH ships could be used for OT falcon, but that could also be a misleading move to make people waste some energy. The truth is that NOBODY could trully be 100% certain.

    Remember last year, right around this time when Revan was announced to be at works? Many speculated that ST, SA, Nihilus, Sion and even HK but more importantly the first two were going to be needed very soon for the unlock of Revan. It was even 'leaked' on discord that data miners had confirmed this. I remember everyone talking about farming them, and many even did. Turns out things went completely the other way.

    At the end of the day the idea is that there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who are, dare I say, smarter, more disciplined and have a sense for these things, but you cannot judge the entire population based on that criteria.

    The equivalent argument would be that we're all in a classroom and a teacher shows up and gives us 50 pages of material to memorize for next week's test. Everyone fails miserably but a bunch of kids who have photographic memory end up acing the test. When the rest of us complain about the test being too hard and the volume of the material being unrealistic to memorize in the given amount of time, you point to the kids with the photographic memory and you use them as an argument to 'prove' that the test was easy.

    I hope this demonstrates why people day that the falcon was p2w and that the AVERAGE, and average is key here, player couldn't have gotten it without spending at least 80 dollars for the bundle.

    Whoa! All this text and still the HMF is not a p2w ship. Why? Because it was very easily acquired without spending a dime. You didn'teven need to have any hoarded crystals to unlock it. Yes, I know that you personally made some bad farming decisions, and didn't unlock a HMF of your own. However, that doesn't make HMF p2w.
  • Dk_rek wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    You are also counting how many days the BH ships were farmable. This is a clear mistake. If you count days from when the ships became farmable up to the day the falcon left the day, then perhaps with average luck you could get it to 5 stars. Depending of how many refreshes you could afford and how well you could balance things out with ALL THE OTHER FARMS that we have for legendaries. I count the days from the second it was announced that we in fact would need these ships up until the second the event ended and by no means could anyone get it f2p in that amount of time. In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.

    Hmm...this is actually an interesting statement.... Players do get crystals every day even if it's not a lot but enough for a refresh or two on nodes.

    What I find interesting about your statement is that a casual player that does not read reddit, facebook, this forum "possibly" had no idea that BH ships would be needed for Falcon.. Though even if not a poster or reader of forums if they have been playing for a few months or more could have deduced that they may have been needed "for something"...but again that's not the point....

    Since you have done the match and calculations obviously just how many shards was it possible to attain since the "offical announcement till the day the event was over ? with say 2 refreshes on each ship node..which is F2P doable ? was 5* possible ?

    But yeah from the "official announcement" your right....maybe not.... but as someone who posts here means you read the forum, maybe other sources you can't "honestly" say you had no idea at least "something" was coming... even casual players who don't post anywhere eventually lurk a little and should have had some foresight that something was coming and start the process to 5*

    I actually like your statement...because it's true from the "official" announcement you probably could not get everything to 5* "maybe".... your actually correct....

    But as a poster between the speculation, the puzzles, the leadup..... anyone who's ever clicked and read posts somewhere actually really did have ample time.... Star Wars fans are pretty die hard..... at least 51% of this game has to lurk or post somewhere...

    It's a good point though if you don't post or read posts and have not locked down the trends in this game.... you did not "probably i did not see your math but agree your prob right" have ample time to get ships to 5* what do you need again 95 shards ? to go from marquee to 5 ? at the usual drop rate of 0-1 per 8 attempts (lol that's how it feels)....

    He's not correct. It's been explained to @PeterBahama numerous times in other threads on these forums how using his specific crystal income he could have started farming the BH ships on the day of the announcement of HMF's requirements (which was linked to in game via the newsletter) with only very edge case bad luck resulting in not meeting the requirements for 5* unlock. But he refuses to admit he made a mistake and complains about it instead.

    It's even more surprising and disingenuous of him because he claims to have previously focused on the ships side of the game. Given that the BH ships were the clearly dominant faction in ships prior to them being needed to unlock HMF it's also a mistake on his part not to have been farming them anyway (regardless of HMF) given his claimed aim of using ships for his crystal income.

    Myself and other posters wouldn't be so blunt and rude in pointing this out over and over if he wasn't so persistent in complaining about it rather than being part of the solution to discussing ways to get around the fact that the ship is so game breakingly overpowered.

    Completely agree it's made fleet arena very boring and certainly biases Grand Arena results just as Revan does on the character side of the game. But it's not a P2W ship and that's just not in dispute by anyone that's looking at this impartially.

    The crystal requirements are unrealistic, not everyone is finishing top 5 in both arenas to keep up with the refreshes you're suggesting.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    Ok let me explain something to you.

    A few people unlocking something for free, due to being crystal hoarders doesn't mean that every free to play needs to be a crystal hoarder. What's the right amount to save? When and how do you plan to spend the crystals that you have hoarded? Do you even care to factor in good/bad drop rates?

    It also required foresight, which clearly should not be part of your criteria for something being f2p or not. The falcon's actual requirements were not officially announced until a couple of weeks prior to the event. Up to this point it was all nothing but speculation. Yes the Bounty Hunters were used for Chewbacca OT and it seemed obvious that BH ships could be used for OT falcon, but that could also be a misleading move to make people waste some energy. The truth is that NOBODY could trully be 100% certain.

    Remember last year, right around this time when Revan was announced to be at works? Many speculated that ST, SA, Nihilus, Sion and even HK but more importantly the first two were going to be needed very soon for the unlock of Revan. It was even 'leaked' on discord that data miners had confirmed this. I remember everyone talking about farming them, and many even did. Turns out things went completely the other way.

    At the end of the day the idea is that there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who are, dare I say, smarter, more disciplined and have a sense for these things, but you cannot judge the entire population based on that criteria.

    The equivalent argument would be that we're all in a classroom and a teacher shows up and gives us 50 pages of material to memorize for next week's test. Everyone fails miserably but a bunch of kids who have photographic memory end up acing the test. When the rest of us complain about the test being too hard and the volume of the material being unrealistic to memorize in the given amount of time, you point to the kids with the photographic memory and you use them as an argument to 'prove' that the test was easy.

    I hope this demonstrates why people day that the falcon was p2w and that the AVERAGE, and average is key here, player couldn't have gotten it without spending at least 80 dollars for the bundle.

    Whoa! All this text and still the HMF is not a p2w ship. Why? Because it was very easily acquired without spending a dime. You didn'teven need to have any hoarded crystals to unlock it. Yes, I know that you personally made some bad farming decisions, and didn't unlock a HMF of your own. However, that doesn't make HMF p2w.

    Dude just go into your shard and count how many falcons there are. You probably have no more than 20-25, if it was as easily aquired as you think, then there would also be alot more around
  • To everyone who said the falcon was easily obtainable for f2p or that it's not pay to win, here is a fact for you:

    In my shard there are 15 falcons, they all are sitting in the top 16 currently. My shard is over 2.5 years old and the players at the top are well over 4 million GP, I myself am over 3.6 and that's with most mods unequipped. This comes to show you that this isn't a new shard. I also know from shard chat that out of those 15, at least 10 of them had to spend money to get it at 5 stars, some paid all the way to 7 and some I can't speak for because they are not in the chat.

    So please explain how 15 players out of potentially hundreds is f2p friendly
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    You are also counting how many days the BH ships were farmable. This is a clear mistake. If you count days from when the ships became farmable up to the day the falcon left the day, then perhaps with average luck you could get it to 5 stars. Depending of how many refreshes you could afford and how well you could balance things out with ALL THE OTHER FARMS that we have for legendaries. I count the days from the second it was announced that we in fact would need these ships up until the second the event ended and by no means could anyone get it f2p in that amount of time.

    This was discussed in a previous thread of yours, but here we go again:

    By the day it was officially announced that you needed 4 BH ships to unlock HMF according to yourself, you already had 3 BH ships at 5*or more (Slave 1 and HT were even at 7*). You also had a 3* IG-2000 from the marquee event. You had 11 days to farm 95 shards for IG-2000. You could have farmed those shards by focusing on IG-2000 and putting your other farmson hold. 2 hard node refreshes (25 + 50 crystals) and a single energy refresh (another 50 crystals) and then an additional refresh here and there with your surplus crystals.
    Each and every player could afford to farm those 95 shards in 11 days, if they chose to - completely free and without a single crystal hoarded. Your claim thatthey couldn't is and always was false.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    Ok let me explain something to you.

    A few people unlocking something for free, due to being crystal hoarders doesn't mean that every free to play needs to be a crystal hoarder. What's the right amount to save? When and how do you plan to spend the crystals that you have hoarded? Do you even care to factor in good/bad drop rates?

    It also required foresight, which clearly should not be part of your criteria for something being f2p or not. The falcon's actual requirements were not officially announced until a couple of weeks prior to the event. Up to this point it was all nothing but speculation. Yes the Bounty Hunters were used for Chewbacca OT and it seemed obvious that BH ships could be used for OT falcon, but that could also be a misleading move to make people waste some energy. The truth is that NOBODY could trully be 100% certain.

    Remember last year, right around this time when Revan was announced to be at works? Many speculated that ST, SA, Nihilus, Sion and even HK but more importantly the first two were going to be needed very soon for the unlock of Revan. It was even 'leaked' on discord that data miners had confirmed this. I remember everyone talking about farming them, and many even did. Turns out things went completely the other way.

    At the end of the day the idea is that there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who are, dare I say, smarter, more disciplined and have a sense for these things, but you cannot judge the entire population based on that criteria.

    The equivalent argument would be that we're all in a classroom and a teacher shows up and gives us 50 pages of material to memorize for next week's test. Everyone fails miserably but a bunch of kids who have photographic memory end up acing the test. When the rest of us complain about the test being too hard and the volume of the material being unrealistic to memorize in the given amount of time, you point to the kids with the photographic memory and you use them as an argument to 'prove' that the test was easy.

    I hope this demonstrates why people day that the falcon was p2w and that the AVERAGE, and average is key here, player couldn't have gotten it without spending at least 80 dollars for the bundle.

    Whoa! All this text and still the HMF is not a p2w ship. Why? Because it was very easily acquired without spending a dime. You didn'teven need to have any hoarded crystals to unlock it. Yes, I know that you personally made some bad farming decisions, and didn't unlock a HMF of your own. However, that doesn't make HMF p2w.

    Dude just go into your shard and count how many falcons there are. You probably have no more than 20-25, if it was as easily aquired as you think, then there would also be alot more around

    https://swgoh.gg/fleet-meta-report/100/#all
    24% of all registered swgoh.gg users who rank top100 have the falcon. It's not really a super exclusive ship.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    Ok let me explain something to you.

    A few people unlocking something for free, due to being crystal hoarders doesn't mean that every free to play needs to be a crystal hoarder. What's the right amount to save? When and how do you plan to spend the crystals that you have hoarded? Do you even care to factor in good/bad drop rates?

    It also required foresight, which clearly should not be part of your criteria for something being f2p or not. The falcon's actual requirements were not officially announced until a couple of weeks prior to the event. Up to this point it was all nothing but speculation. Yes the Bounty Hunters were used for Chewbacca OT and it seemed obvious that BH ships could be used for OT falcon, but that could also be a misleading move to make people waste some energy. The truth is that NOBODY could trully be 100% certain.

    Remember last year, right around this time when Revan was announced to be at works? Many speculated that ST, SA, Nihilus, Sion and even HK but more importantly the first two were going to be needed very soon for the unlock of Revan. It was even 'leaked' on discord that data miners had confirmed this. I remember everyone talking about farming them, and many even did. Turns out things went completely the other way.

    At the end of the day the idea is that there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who are, dare I say, smarter, more disciplined and have a sense for these things, but you cannot judge the entire population based on that criteria.

    The equivalent argument would be that we're all in a classroom and a teacher shows up and gives us 50 pages of material to memorize for next week's test. Everyone fails miserably but a bunch of kids who have photographic memory end up acing the test. When the rest of us complain about the test being too hard and the volume of the material being unrealistic to memorize in the given amount of time, you point to the kids with the photographic memory and you use them as an argument to 'prove' that the test was easy.

    I hope this demonstrates why people day that the falcon was p2w and that the AVERAGE, and average is key here, player couldn't have gotten it without spending at least 80 dollars for the bundle.

    Whoa! All this text and still the HMF is not a p2w ship. Why? Because it was very easily acquired without spending a dime. You didn'teven need to have any hoarded crystals to unlock it. Yes, I know that you personally made some bad farming decisions, and didn't unlock a HMF of your own. However, that doesn't make HMF p2w.

    Dude just go into your shard and count how many falcons there are. You probably have no more than 20-25, if it was as easily aquired as you think, then there would also be alot more around

    https://swgoh.gg/fleet-meta-report/100/#all
    24% of all registered swgoh.gg users who rank top100 have the falcon. It's not really a super exclusive ship.

    My shard has 15, also top 100 means that at least 5-10 whales are somewhere in there and some who would at least spend 80 on the bundle
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.

    How many players actually unlocked the HMF is irrelevant. You are probably not the only one who chose not to farm IG-2000. The only relevant thing is that you could have unlocked it with relative ease. That's what matters.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.

    How many players actually unlocked the HMF is irrelevant. You are probably not the only one who chose not to farm IG-2000. The only relevant thing is that you could have unlocked it with relative ease. That's what matters.

    Doing 2-3 refreshes on 2 nodes for 3-4 weeks straight while you have other legendary farms happening ISN'T RELATIVE EASE
  • leef wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    Ok let me explain something to you.

    A few people unlocking something for free, due to being crystal hoarders doesn't mean that every free to play needs to be a crystal hoarder. What's the right amount to save? When and how do you plan to spend the crystals that you have hoarded? Do you even care to factor in good/bad drop rates?

    It also required foresight, which clearly should not be part of your criteria for something being f2p or not. The falcon's actual requirements were not officially announced until a couple of weeks prior to the event. Up to this point it was all nothing but speculation. Yes the Bounty Hunters were used for Chewbacca OT and it seemed obvious that BH ships could be used for OT falcon, but that could also be a misleading move to make people waste some energy. The truth is that NOBODY could trully be 100% certain.

    Remember last year, right around this time when Revan was announced to be at works? Many speculated that ST, SA, Nihilus, Sion and even HK but more importantly the first two were going to be needed very soon for the unlock of Revan. It was even 'leaked' on discord that data miners had confirmed this. I remember everyone talking about farming them, and many even did. Turns out things went completely the other way.

    At the end of the day the idea is that there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who are, dare I say, smarter, more disciplined and have a sense for these things, but you cannot judge the entire population based on that criteria.

    The equivalent argument would be that we're all in a classroom and a teacher shows up and gives us 50 pages of material to memorize for next week's test. Everyone fails miserably but a bunch of kids who have photographic memory end up acing the test. When the rest of us complain about the test being too hard and the volume of the material being unrealistic to memorize in the given amount of time, you point to the kids with the photographic memory and you use them as an argument to 'prove' that the test was easy.

    I hope this demonstrates why people day that the falcon was p2w and that the AVERAGE, and average is key here, player couldn't have gotten it without spending at least 80 dollars for the bundle.

    Whoa! All this text and still the HMF is not a p2w ship. Why? Because it was very easily acquired without spending a dime. You didn'teven need to have any hoarded crystals to unlock it. Yes, I know that you personally made some bad farming decisions, and didn't unlock a HMF of your own. However, that doesn't make HMF p2w.

    Dude just go into your shard and count how many falcons there are. You probably have no more than 20-25, if it was as easily aquired as you think, then there would also be alot more around

    https://swgoh.gg/fleet-meta-report/100/#all
    24% of all registered swgoh.gg users who rank top100 have the falcon. It's not really a super exclusive ship.

    My shard has 15, also top 100 means that at least 5-10 whales are somewhere in there and some who would at least spend 80 on the bundle

    My shard has well over 100 falcons, your fleet shard might not be new, but it certainly isn't the most well developed one out there. I don't have Falcon and fell from 3rd to 111th in one night. Was busy one weekend and came back in 180. After I got to 150ish I started seeing falcons and every single team except for 2 (Just 2!) teams from 120 back to the top 5 were all Falcons.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    Ok let me explain something to you.

    A few people unlocking something for free, due to being crystal hoarders doesn't mean that every free to play needs to be a crystal hoarder. What's the right amount to save? When and how do you plan to spend the crystals that you have hoarded? Do you even care to factor in good/bad drop rates?

    It also required foresight, which clearly should not be part of your criteria for something being f2p or not. The falcon's actual requirements were not officially announced until a couple of weeks prior to the event. Up to this point it was all nothing but speculation. Yes the Bounty Hunters were used for Chewbacca OT and it seemed obvious that BH ships could be used for OT falcon, but that could also be a misleading move to make people waste some energy. The truth is that NOBODY could trully be 100% certain.

    Remember last year, right around this time when Revan was announced to be at works? Many speculated that ST, SA, Nihilus, Sion and even HK but more importantly the first two were going to be needed very soon for the unlock of Revan. It was even 'leaked' on discord that data miners had confirmed this. I remember everyone talking about farming them, and many even did. Turns out things went completely the other way.

    At the end of the day the idea is that there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who are, dare I say, smarter, more disciplined and have a sense for these things, but you cannot judge the entire population based on that criteria.

    The equivalent argument would be that we're all in a classroom and a teacher shows up and gives us 50 pages of material to memorize for next week's test. Everyone fails miserably but a bunch of kids who have photographic memory end up acing the test. When the rest of us complain about the test being too hard and the volume of the material being unrealistic to memorize in the given amount of time, you point to the kids with the photographic memory and you use them as an argument to 'prove' that the test was easy.

    I hope this demonstrates why people day that the falcon was p2w and that the AVERAGE, and average is key here, player couldn't have gotten it without spending at least 80 dollars for the bundle.

    Whoa! All this text and still the HMF is not a p2w ship. Why? Because it was very easily acquired without spending a dime. You didn'teven need to have any hoarded crystals to unlock it. Yes, I know that you personally made some bad farming decisions, and didn't unlock a HMF of your own. However, that doesn't make HMF p2w.

    Dude just go into your shard and count how many falcons there are. You probably have no more than 20-25, if it was as easily aquired as you think, then there would also be alot more around

    https://swgoh.gg/fleet-meta-report/100/#all
    24% of all registered swgoh.gg users who rank top100 have the falcon. It's not really a super exclusive ship.

    My shard has 15, also top 100 means that at least 5-10 whales are somewhere in there and some who would at least spend 80 on the bundle

    weak leaderboard, that's pretty sweet.
    Anyway, you asked him to check his leaderboard like that would somehow prove your point, so i'm not sure why you're dismissing those swgoh.gg stats like they're all spenders. Why bring up how many people would probably have a falcon on his leaderboard in the first place if you're gonna dismiss it anyway if it's not to your liking? O_o
    Mine has well over 50 falcons on it btw.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    dimi4a wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    I know there were a lot of players who spent quite some $$$ to panic farm those BH ships, so overall it is a "p2w" ship.

    Choosing to pay for 5 jedi to unlock GMY doesn't make GMY p2w, since farming those 5 jedi is easy for free. Same thing applies to HMF and the bountyhunter ships.
  • Dk_rek wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    You are also counting how many days the BH ships were farmable. This is a clear mistake. If you count days from when the ships became farmable up to the day the falcon left the day, then perhaps with average luck you could get it to 5 stars. Depending of how many refreshes you could afford and how well you could balance things out with ALL THE OTHER FARMS that we have for legendaries. I count the days from the second it was announced that we in fact would need these ships up until the second the event ended and by no means could anyone get it f2p in that amount of time. In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.

    Hmm...this is actually an interesting statement.... Players do get crystals every day even if it's not a lot but enough for a refresh or two on nodes.

    What I find interesting about your statement is that a casual player that does not read reddit, facebook, this forum "possibly" had no idea that BH ships would be needed for Falcon.. Though even if not a poster or reader of forums if they have been playing for a few months or more could have deduced that they may have been needed "for something"...but again that's not the point....

    Since you have done the match and calculations obviously just how many shards was it possible to attain since the "offical announcement till the day the event was over ? with say 2 refreshes on each ship node..which is F2P doable ? was 5* possible ?

    But yeah from the "official announcement" your right....maybe not.... but as someone who posts here means you read the forum, maybe other sources you can't "honestly" say you had no idea at least "something" was coming... even casual players who don't post anywhere eventually lurk a little and should have had some foresight that something was coming and start the process to 5*

    I actually like your statement...because it's true from the "official" announcement you probably could not get everything to 5* "maybe".... your actually correct....

    But as a poster between the speculation, the puzzles, the leadup..... anyone who's ever clicked and read posts somewhere actually really did have ample time.... Star Wars fans are pretty die hard..... at least 51% of this game has to lurk or post somewhere...

    It's a good point though if you don't post or read posts and have not locked down the trends in this game.... you did not "probably i did not see your math but agree your prob right" have ample time to get ships to 5* what do you need again 95 shards ? to go from marquee to 5 ? at the usual drop rate of 0-1 per 8 attempts (lol that's how it feels)....

    He's not correct. It's been explained to @PeterBahama numerous times in other threads on these forums how using his specific crystal income he could have started farming the BH ships on the day of the announcement of HMF's requirements (which was linked to in game via the newsletter) with only very edge case bad luck resulting in not meeting the requirements for 5* unlock. But he refuses to admit he made a mistake and complains about it instead.

    It's even more surprising and disingenuous of him because he claims to have previously focused on the ships side of the game. Given that the BH ships were the clearly dominant faction in ships prior to them being needed to unlock HMF it's also a mistake on his part not to have been farming them anyway (regardless of HMF) given his claimed aim of using ships for his crystal income.

    Myself and other posters wouldn't be so blunt and rude in pointing this out over and over if he wasn't so persistent in complaining about it rather than being part of the solution to discussing ways to get around the fact that the ship is so game breakingly overpowered.

    Completely agree it's made fleet arena very boring and certainly biases Grand Arena results just as Revan does on the character side of the game. But it's not a P2W ship and that's just not in dispute by anyone that's looking at this impartially.

    The crystal requirements are unrealistic, not everyone is finishing top 5 in both arenas to keep up with the refreshes you're suggesting.

    It has nothing to do with refreshes. Geez.

    Anyone who was actually playing ships almost definitely had HT and Slave One at LEAST at 5* by the time HMF was announced.

    Before falcon was even a thing, I had HT and Slave 1 at 7*, and XB at 6*. All being used regularly in fleet.
    That just left IG2000, which is already at 3* from the marquee event. Getting 95 shards in a few weeks doesn't take ANY foresight or hoarding.

    HMF isn't a paywall ship. Never was, never will be. The fact remains (despite claims here to the contrary) that the ship was quite reachable without spending. Just because some people chose (or felt compelled) to spend doesn't make it P2W.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • Waqui wrote: »
    dimi4a wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    I know there were a lot of players who spent quite some $$$ to panic farm those BH ships, so overall it is a "p2w" ship.

    Choosing to pay for 5 jedi to unlock GMY doesn't make GMY p2w, since farming those 5 jedi is easy for free. Same thing applies to HMF and the bountyhunter ships.

    What a poor example, the **** hasn't been around for 2 years, it's only come to the game once
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    You and the OP won’t let go of this “p2w” stuff will you? Despite many people telling you they got the Falcon unlocked without spending a penny?

    You are also counting how many days the BH ships were farmable. This is a clear mistake. If you count days from when the ships became farmable up to the day the falcon left the day, then perhaps with average luck you could get it to 5 stars. Depending of how many refreshes you could afford and how well you could balance things out with ALL THE OTHER FARMS that we have for legendaries. I count the days from the second it was announced that we in fact would need these ships up until the second the event ended and by no means could anyone get it f2p in that amount of time. In order to classify something as f2p of not, at least 51% of f2p should be able to get it with relative easy, which clearly wasn't the case. Probably not even 5% of f2p got it in my shard and some got it by paying and I know that for a fact.

    Since you have done the match and calculations obviously just how many shards was it possible to attain since the "offical announcement till the day the event was over ? with say 2 refreshes on each ship node..which is F2P doable ? was 5* possible ?

    But yeah from the "official announcement" your right....maybe not.... but as someone who posts here means you read the forum, maybe other sources you can't "honestly" say you had no idea at least "something" was coming... even casual players who don't post anywhere eventually lurk a little and should have had some foresight that something was coming and start the process to 5*

    I actually like your statement...because it's true from the "official" announcement you probably could not get everything to 5* "maybe".... your actually correct....
    At the day of the announcement PeterBahama already had Slave 1 and HT at 7*, XB at 6* and IG-2000 at 3*. If you do the math, he could have easily farmed those 95 shards in time - even if hewon no crystals in fleet arena (but he ranked high back then, and a high daily income of crystals - which only makes his consistent false claims and multiple threads about this seem quite ... 'interesting').

    Just do the math.

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