Except the top tier team is Revan, who is extremely fast and starts with tenacity up. I can’t see a Finn lead having a chance. The two primary reasons people were using Finn lead were to auto tank and counter Revan. Even if this a boost overall, the 2 primary uses have been nerfed. And of course nerfed right as a P2P version is being released.
"If Finn does not counter Revan, he is destroyed," is an insane standard considering that use doesn't even exist save by pushing an exploit loop to extremes. And while some folks got zFinn strictly for tank back in the day, it has become decreasingly relevant content for a long, long time.
Finn zeta hasn't been around and relevant for years because of Revan. It's as a general offensive tool. Finn's "primary use" is for TW and GA offense. And not just against Revan.
Looking around at some of the standard counter charts, I see zFinn listed as a counter to KRUM, Hunters, Phoenix, Ewoks, Traya with caveats. And New Finn is looking to be a solid matchup against most of these still-relevant TW/GA teams. Finn's "primary use" is retained.
The Revan counter team of zFinn, RT, Chewie, Han, 3PO, with Chewie guarding 3PO is the most extreme example of zFinn's incredibly unhealthy play.
Han automatically goes first, with a basic that exposes and double taps, with an assist from Chewie that exposes and applies Tenacity Down. RT goes next, because an expose landed, and immediately begins the expose loop with rampant Chewie assists making most attacks pop two exposes, or dispel and pop an expose. And if the attack lands two exposes, RT has generated 100% TM for himself, letting him go immediately. Against anything that doesn't gain TM as enemies are hurt/killed (Nightsisters) or have enormous tenacity/initial tenacity up (Bastila, Revan), they'll almost certainly end the match at 0% TM without having taken a turn. And unless the enemy team has counter, your gear is almost irrelevant; you can loop enemy teams to death at tick zero with only enough gear on your squad to unlock the necessary abilities and good potency mods.
The very existence of a team like that is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And no, the problem is not 3PO. Or Han. Or Chewie. It's zFinn's lead making it into an infinite loop.
Except the top tier team is Revan, who is extremely fast and starts with tenacity up. I can’t see a Finn lead having a chance. The two primary reasons people were using Finn lead were to auto tank and counter Revan. Even if this a boost overall, the 2 primary uses have been nerfed. And of course nerfed right as a P2P version is being released.
"If Finn does not counter Revan, he is destroyed," is an insane standard considering that use doesn't even exist save by pushing an exploit loop to extremes. And while some folks got zFinn strictly for tank back in the day, it has become decreasingly relevant content for a long, long time.
Finn zeta hasn't been around and relevant for years because of Revan. It's as a general offensive tool. Finn's "primary use" is for TW and GA offense. And not just against Revan.
Looking around at some of the standard counter charts, I see zFinn listed as a counter to KRUM, Hunters, Phoenix, Ewoks, Traya with caveats. And New Finn is looking to be a solid matchup against most of these still-relevant TW/GA teams. Finn's "primary use" is retained.
The Revan counter team of zFinn, RT, Chewie, Han, 3PO, with Chewie guarding 3PO is the most extreme example of zFinn's incredibly unhealthy play.
Han automatically goes first, with a basic that exposes and double taps, with an assist from Chewie that exposes and applies Tenacity Down. RT goes next, because an expose landed, and immediately begins the expose loop with rampant Chewie assists making most attacks pop two exposes, or dispel and pop an expose. And if the attack lands two exposes, RT has generated 100% TM for himself, letting him go immediately. Against anything that doesn't gain TM as enemies are hurt/killed (Nightsisters) or have enormous tenacity/initial tenacity up (Bastila, Revan), they'll almost certainly end the match at 0% TM without having taken a turn. And unless the enemy team has counter, your gear is almost irrelevant; you can loop enemy teams to death at tick zero with only enough gear on your squad to unlock the necessary abilities and good potency mods.
The very existence of a team like that is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And no, the problem is not 3PO. Or Han. Or Chewie. It's zFinn's lead making it into an infinite loop.
What a thoroughly misguided view- if that was true, then that team would dominate arena. Instead we have a massively unhealthy Revan monoculture- between 45 and 50 out of the top 50 teams are JKR. If Finn was so "unhealthy" and "automatic" he'd be the meta. Instead we have dead boring Revan vs Revan snoozefest matchups. Many a beautiful theory are ruined by an inconvenient fact.
I have a fully geared and fast Revan and choose to play zFinn (with R2 not RT) - It brings challenge and diversity to my shard and gives them a break of Revan vs. Revan. BTW my team doesn't change for O or D and falls to the 30/40s- just as Revan teams do.
What a thoroughly misguided view- if that was true, then that team would dominate arena. Instead we have a massively unhealthy Revan monoculture- between 45 and 50 out of the top 50 teams are JKR. If Finn was so "unhealthy" and "automatic" he'd be the meta. Instead we have dead boring Revan vs Revan snoozefest matchups. Many a beautiful theory are ruined by an inconvenient fact.
I have a fully geared and fast Revan and choose to play zFinn (with R2 not RT) - It brings challenge and diversity to my shard and gives them a break of Revan vs. Revan. BTW my team doesn't change for O or D and falls to the 30/40s- just as Revan teams do.
No. No, that is not what that means.
Infinite looping to beat virtually anything on offense is not the same as the AI handling that team well.
What tends to dominate the arena is not necessarily what works well on offense. Any number of good offensive teams have failed to become meta because the AI does not handle them well. There are a number of teams that can defeat Revan if played well. CLS with Han, Chewie, and 3PO. Traya with fast Thrawn. Zaul with tenacious Nest. zFinn loop with Chewie.
These teams are not seen nearly as often in the arena as Revan because despite their ability to climb, the AI does not handle them well and they perform poorly on defense.
No, zFinn does not dominate the leaderboards. That's not because the zFinn loop is not a problem. That's because the AI doesn't run the zFinn loop well. Yet he appears regularly on boards because someone used zFinn to snipe, then disappears just as fast because he's replaced by a team that can hold.
No. No, it ain't invisible. If it were invisible, everyone wouldn't be up in arms over the change.
Using zFinn to climb is an old trick, and the advice always ends with making your last attack of the climb with a good defensive team because zFinn doesn't do well on defense.
No. No, it ain't invisible. If it were invisible, everyone wouldn't be up in arms over the change.
Using zFinn to climb is an old trick, and the advice always ends with making your last attack of the climb with a good defensive team because zFinn doesn't do well on defense.
Here, take a look at your arena. Anyone. See any zFinns? No? So where are they climbing? If no one can see them, they don't exist. Many teams climb at the same time (payouts). Therefore your theory is utter rubbish.
If you just want to nerf zFinn because you don't like your JKRevan being beaten, I understand. But otherwise, you're just cheering for a nerf. Good for you.CG needs at least some people to cheer their every nerf.
Here, take a look at your arena. Anyone. See any zFinns? No? So where are they climbing? If no one can see them, they don't exist. Many teams climb at the same time (payouts). Therefore your theory is utter rubbish.
If you just want to nerf zFinn because you don't like your JKRevan being beaten, I understand. But otherwise, you're just cheering for a nerf. Good for you.CG needs at least some people to cheer their every nerf.
Not how that works.
There's a zFinn in my top 50 right now, but they usually don't crawl out of the woodwork until it's closer to the common payout times.
But when people use zFinn as a climbing tool, then swap to a defensive team at the end, zFinn is not going to appear on the leader board for them for 23+ hours a day.
Here, take a look at your arena. Anyone. See any zFinns? No? So where are they climbing? If no one can see them, they don't exist. Many teams climb at the same time (payouts). Therefore your theory is utter rubbish.
If you just want to nerf zFinn because you don't like your JKRevan being beaten, I understand. But otherwise, you're just cheering for a nerf. Good for you.CG needs at least some people to cheer their every nerf.
Not how that works.
There's a zFinn in my top 50 right now, but they usually don't crawl out of the woodwork until it's closer to the common payout times.
But when people use zFinn as a climbing tool, then swap to a defensive team at the end, zFinn is not going to appear on the leader board for them for 23+ hours a day.
It's not a theory. It's a common technique.
Whenever you look it's one of the 23+ hours... It's like those elves and gnomes...
I see @CG_Carrie is responding on reddit to some issues... so maybe she can tell us when this Finn rework is going to be released? Because @Kyno does not seem to want to respond to my previous two comments. (BTW: Not being upfront and answering easy questions like this is why your player base is becoming infuriated)
I see @CG_Carrie is responding on reddit to some issues... so maybe she can tell us when this Finn rework is going to be released? Because @Kyno does not seem to want to respond to my previous two comments. (BTW: Not being upfront and answering easy questions like this is why your player base is becoming infuriated)
Why would Kyno know? He's not a dev. He's a school crossing guard.
I see CG_Carrie is responding on reddit to some issues... so maybe she can tell us when this Finn rework is going to be released? Because Kyno does not seem to want to respond to my previous two comments. (BTW: Not being upfront and answering easy questions like this is why your player base is becoming infuriated)
I see CG_Carrie is responding on reddit to some issues... so maybe she can tell us when this Finn rework is going to be released? Because Kyno does not seem to want to respond to my previous two comments. (BTW: Not being upfront and answering easy questions like this is why your player base is becoming infuriated)
Why would Kyno know? He's not a dev. He's a school crossing guard.
I see @CG_Carrie is responding on reddit to some issues... so maybe she can tell us when this Finn rework is going to be released? Because @Kyno does not seem to want to respond to my previous two comments. (BTW: Not being upfront and answering easy questions like this is why your player base is becoming infuriated)
Why would Kyno know? He's not a dev. He's a school crossing guard.
Perfect Analogy...
He is the school crossing guard of the forum trying to get the oblivious, over excited, little elementary school kid posters who would walk out into traffic without looking or paying attention safely to the other side of the forum without getting squished by a mack truck..
Except the top tier team is Revan, who is extremely fast and starts with tenacity up. I can’t see a Finn lead having a chance. The two primary reasons people were using Finn lead were to auto tank and counter Revan. Even if this a boost overall, the 2 primary uses have been nerfed. And of course nerfed right as a P2P version is being released.
"If Finn does not counter Revan, he is destroyed," is an insane standard considering that use doesn't even exist save by pushing an exploit loop to extremes. And while some folks got zFinn strictly for tank back in the day, it has become decreasingly relevant content for a long, long time.
Finn zeta hasn't been around and relevant for years because of Revan. It's as a general offensive tool. Finn's "primary use" is for TW and GA offense. And not just against Revan.
Looking around at some of the standard counter charts, I see zFinn listed as a counter to KRUM, Hunters, Phoenix, Ewoks, Traya with caveats. And New Finn is looking to be a solid matchup against most of these still-relevant TW/GA teams. Finn's "primary use" is retained.
The Revan counter team of zFinn, RT, Chewie, Han, 3PO, with Chewie guarding 3PO is the most extreme example of zFinn's incredibly unhealthy play.
Han automatically goes first, with a basic that exposes and double taps, with an assist from Chewie that exposes and applies Tenacity Down. RT goes next, because an expose landed, and immediately begins the expose loop with rampant Chewie assists making most attacks pop two exposes, or dispel and pop an expose. And if the attack lands two exposes, RT has generated 100% TM for himself, letting him go immediately. Against anything that doesn't gain TM as enemies are hurt/killed (Nightsisters) or have enormous tenacity/initial tenacity up (Bastila, Revan), they'll almost certainly end the match at 0% TM without having taken a turn. And unless the enemy team has counter, your gear is almost irrelevant; you can loop enemy teams to death at tick zero with only enough gear on your squad to unlock the necessary abilities and good potency mods.
The very existence of a team like that is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And no, the problem is not 3PO. Or Han. Or Chewie. It's zFinn's lead making it into an infinite loop.
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
Please do the right thing and refund the finn zeta.
I have tried him since in different applications and his lead does'nt perform as well anymore.
Please do the right thing and refund the finn zeta.
You are right. His lead has been a little erratic of the past few days - other who also run him have noticed the same issue - and I strongly rely on him to be able to sustain my Darth Revan farm.
So....Grievous is destroying P3 in 1 hit due to 0 play testing.
What's really alarming about this is not the dmg, or the fact that you responded so quickly about Droideka on a Friday afternoon/night (despite ignoring us for over a week...) or even the fact that you actually opened a dialogue about Grievous' major miss on the bowels of Reddit, but the fact that this is a 30 second run.
All that needed to be done was one run through with this team in P3, and despite talking about Grievous' raid potential (regardless of marketing him for something else...) this team clearly wasn't tested. Similarly to how your grossly over-exaggerating the potential of x-Brand Zfinn and Grievous in PVP with supposed *thorough testing* to convince us that we aren't being conned with both reworks.
I know you feel that the problem is us because we supposedly have trouble with team synergy, or dont know how to use mods, or are unable to spot a good rework when we see one, but it really really isn't us . This is a business and your supposed to convince people to want to spend money, and I used too, but how are you supposed to convince people to spend money on this game that is not only faulty in so many ways due to 0 testing, but fails to uphold expectations that you set while also plundering people's rosters whenever you feel like it?
This has been disastrous week for this game's developers and players and it would be nice if you actually addressed our concerns with giving zFinn's 1% meta slice to Revan and actually give us a rework that is capable of hard countering Revan.
Being a whale is about being on top of the PVP mountain, which is hard to do when 90% of players around you are running the same team because you keep eliminating the few teams capable of competition, or purposely fail to create a successful contender.
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I mistyped guarding 3PO. My writeup clearly had Chewie assisting RT.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I mistyped guarding 3PO. My writeup clearly had Chewie assisting RT.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
Yae, since you're so eager to nerf Finn and claim he's OP, ignoring multiple players who actually run his team, can you please share your SWGOH.gg profile so we can determine if you really play him and actually have him geared enough to run in arena or if you're just trolling (adding up team TM gain and comparing it to individual TM gain and individual TM reduction. 175%. Hah!)
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I mistyped guarding 3PO. My writeup clearly had Chewie assisting RT.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
Yae, since you're so eager to nerf Finn and claim he's OP, ignoring multiple players who actually run his team, can you please share your SWGOH.gg profile so we can determine if you really play him and actually have him geared enough to run in arena or if you're just trolling (adding up team TM gain and comparing it to individual TM gain and individual TM reduction. 175%. Hah!)
He has valid points. Maybe don't be so dismissive.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
.Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power.
I believe either you or I have mid-read the kit.
It says 3% each resistance ally gains 3% TM = 15%
And Target enemy loses 5% TM, so -25%.
That would be going from 175% TM change to 40% TM change.
Also it would become way more RNG dependent if you are supposed to run the team the same way.
‘Final Text: Resistance allies have +60% Defense, Offense, and Potency, and other allies have half that amount. Each time they damage an Exposed enemy, all Resistance allies gain 3% Turn Meter and the target enemy loses 5% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally. Damaging an Exposed enemy also reduces Resistance allies' cooldowns by 1.’
Gotta say I loathe when the forum discussions get to the point when people start pointing fingers and throwing personal insults...
That being said, one thing is for sure - you're blowing up numbers to prove your point. 175% TM gain is only if you 5 pop exposes which happens how often? And while I agree that Finn lead provides much higher TM gains than Rex, by just solely focusing on the gain and not the conditions under which the gain is applied you obscure the fact that Rex lead is much more versatile than Finn and gains that TM more easily.
No, 175% per expose is the correct number.
One expose grants 35% turn meter to five characters. 175%. 140% if you're using Sidious, Sabine, or IPD.
That's why team TM gain mechanics tend to be much smaller than multi-target. 5% to the team per debuff end for Palp. 10% to the team per expose landed for JTR. Rex is one of the bigger ones at 15% (though out-of-faction gets 7.5%).
And Finn gives 35% to the entire party, which is more than a turn for every Expose popped. That's way beyond any other team TM gain lead in the game. And it's not a hard condition to hit. Land an expose from any source and odds are RT is going next, to immediately pop that bubble, and probably reapply it while they're at it so you can do it again with Finn's takedown.
Compare to new Finn. If you pop a bubble, every Resistance ally gains 3% per Resistance ally, and the target enemy loses 5% per Resistance ally. That's +15% to your team, and -25% to one enemy if they don't exist, which they probably won't because your team gets +60% potency. That's a total of +75% TM, -25% TM, for a net of 100% TM modulation. That's still huge. And RT still gets another 55% for exposes applied.
There aren't many leads that offer more TM manipulation than that.
And you can build a strong team around that. Resistance has eleven units. Two of them- Poe and Pilot- are bad. Poe has enough synergy to work well with new zFinn as a bubble planter, though I do hope he gets a rework in the wake of new Finn. New Finn looks to be a solid unit with a good kit. All three Resistance droids are great. Both Reys are great. Holdo is solid and useful tank. And Rose, despite the "Rose sucks" meme brings a lot to a team.
So.
Option A:
zFinn, Poe, RT, R2, C-3PO.
In this squad, every member can land expose (R2 through his basic thanks to 3PO). Every member can pop expose. One member (Poe) can land multiple expose. Four who can pop and land expose in the same move (R2 and RT basic, Finn Takedown, 3PO mass assist). One can land and pop expose to a single target multiple times in a single move (C3PO's mass assist calling RT and R2). One member who can pop expose on multiple targets (R2). You have a lot of expose going on, at 55% TM modulation for every expose applied (RT Unique) and 100% TM modulation for every expose popped (Finn lead). That is a solid lineup, and I look forward to seeing how it pans out.
Main losses are 3PO from Rebels- slot in Obi, particularly under CLS's zeta lead- and R2 from JTR. The remaining Resistance members still make a solid lineup at double Rey, BB-8, Holdo, Rose. If you need more pre-TM on your BB-8, there are plenty of solid droids you can slot in who aren't spoken for by HK-47 or Grievous. Or pull L3 from the Qi'ra lineup and slot Mission back in. Maybe give Finn Holdo and bring back R2, at the expense of a pile of 3PO synergy.
It's still a decent lead. But it can no longer beat the meta teams. And since it can't do that, I don't care. We have GG now to kill non meta teams. I have countless squads that can kill everything except Revan and Traya. If it can't kill Revan or Traya, it's useless to me
Gotta say I loathe when the forum discussions get to the point when people start pointing fingers and throwing personal insults...
That being said, one thing is for sure - you're blowing up numbers to prove your point. 175% TM gain is only if you 5 pop exposes which happens how often? And while I agree that Finn lead provides much higher TM gains than Rex, by just solely focusing on the gain and not the conditions under which the gain is applied you obscure the fact that Rex lead is much more versatile than Finn and gains that TM more easily.
No, 175% per expose is the correct number.
One expose grants 35% turn meter to five characters. 175%. 140% if you're using Sidious, Sabine, or IPD.
That's why team TM gain mechanics tend to be much smaller than multi-target. 5% to the team per debuff end for Palp. 10% to the team per expose landed for JTR. Rex is one of the bigger ones at 15% (though out-of-faction gets 7.5%).
And Finn gives 35% to the entire party, which is more than a turn for every Expose popped. That's way beyond any other team TM gain lead in the game. And it's not a hard condition to hit. Land an expose from any source and odds are RT is going next, to immediately pop that bubble, and probably reapply it while they're at it so you can do it again with Finn's takedown.
Compare to new Finn. If you pop a bubble, every Resistance ally gains 3% per Resistance ally, and the target enemy loses 5% per Resistance ally. That's +15% to your team, and -25% to one enemy if they don't exist, which they probably won't because your team gets +60% potency. That's a total of +75% TM, -25% TM, for a net of 100% TM modulation. That's still huge. And RT still gets another 55% for exposes applied.
There aren't many leads that offer more TM manipulation than that.
And you can build a strong team around that. Resistance has eleven units. Two of them- Poe and Pilot- are bad. Poe has enough synergy to work well with new zFinn as a bubble planter, though I do hope he gets a rework in the wake of new Finn. New Finn looks to be a solid unit with a good kit. All three Resistance droids are great. Both Reys are great. Holdo is solid and useful tank. And Rose, despite the "Rose sucks" meme brings a lot to a team.
So.
Option A:
zFinn, Poe, RT, R2, C-3PO.
In this squad, every member can land expose (R2 through his basic thanks to 3PO). Every member can pop expose. One member (Poe) can land multiple expose. Four who can pop and land expose in the same move (R2 and RT basic, Finn Takedown, 3PO mass assist). One can land and pop expose to a single target multiple times in a single move (C3PO's mass assist calling RT and R2). One member who can pop expose on multiple targets (R2). You have a lot of expose going on, at 55% TM modulation for every expose applied (RT Unique) and 100% TM modulation for every expose popped (Finn lead). That is a solid lineup, and I look forward to seeing how it pans out.
Main losses are 3PO from Rebels- slot in Obi, particularly under CLS's zeta lead- and R2 from JTR. The remaining Resistance members still make a solid lineup at double Rey, BB-8, Holdo, Rose. If you need more pre-TM on your BB-8, there are plenty of solid droids you can slot in who aren't spoken for by HK-47 or Grievous. Or pull L3 from the Qi'ra lineup and slot Mission back in. Maybe give Finn Holdo and bring back R2, at the expense of a pile of 3PO synergy.
It's still a decent lead. But it can no longer beat the meta teams. And since it can't do that, I don't care. We have GG now to kill non meta teams. I have countless squads that can kill everything except Revan and Traya. If it can't kill Revan or Traya, it's useless to me
Replies
Finn zeta hasn't been around and relevant for years because of Revan. It's as a general offensive tool. Finn's "primary use" is for TW and GA offense. And not just against Revan.
Looking around at some of the standard counter charts, I see zFinn listed as a counter to KRUM, Hunters, Phoenix, Ewoks, Traya with caveats. And New Finn is looking to be a solid matchup against most of these still-relevant TW/GA teams. Finn's "primary use" is retained.
The Revan counter team of zFinn, RT, Chewie, Han, 3PO, with Chewie guarding 3PO is the most extreme example of zFinn's incredibly unhealthy play.
Han automatically goes first, with a basic that exposes and double taps, with an assist from Chewie that exposes and applies Tenacity Down. RT goes next, because an expose landed, and immediately begins the expose loop with rampant Chewie assists making most attacks pop two exposes, or dispel and pop an expose. And if the attack lands two exposes, RT has generated 100% TM for himself, letting him go immediately. Against anything that doesn't gain TM as enemies are hurt/killed (Nightsisters) or have enormous tenacity/initial tenacity up (Bastila, Revan), they'll almost certainly end the match at 0% TM without having taken a turn. And unless the enemy team has counter, your gear is almost irrelevant; you can loop enemy teams to death at tick zero with only enough gear on your squad to unlock the necessary abilities and good potency mods.
The very existence of a team like that is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And no, the problem is not 3PO. Or Han. Or Chewie. It's zFinn's lead making it into an infinite loop.
What a thoroughly misguided view- if that was true, then that team would dominate arena. Instead we have a massively unhealthy Revan monoculture- between 45 and 50 out of the top 50 teams are JKR. If Finn was so "unhealthy" and "automatic" he'd be the meta. Instead we have dead boring Revan vs Revan snoozefest matchups. Many a beautiful theory are ruined by an inconvenient fact.
I have a fully geared and fast Revan and choose to play zFinn (with R2 not RT) - It brings challenge and diversity to my shard and gives them a break of Revan vs. Revan. BTW my team doesn't change for O or D and falls to the 30/40s- just as Revan teams do.
Infinite looping to beat virtually anything on offense is not the same as the AI handling that team well.
What tends to dominate the arena is not necessarily what works well on offense. Any number of good offensive teams have failed to become meta because the AI does not handle them well. There are a number of teams that can defeat Revan if played well. CLS with Han, Chewie, and 3PO. Traya with fast Thrawn. Zaul with tenacious Nest. zFinn loop with Chewie.
These teams are not seen nearly as often in the arena as Revan because despite their ability to climb, the AI does not handle them well and they perform poorly on defense.
No, zFinn does not dominate the leaderboards. That's not because the zFinn loop is not a problem. That's because the AI doesn't run the zFinn loop well. Yet he appears regularly on boards because someone used zFinn to snipe, then disappears just as fast because he's replaced by a team that can hold.
No. No, it ain't invisible. If it were invisible, everyone wouldn't be up in arms over the change.
Using zFinn to climb is an old trick, and the advice always ends with making your last attack of the climb with a good defensive team because zFinn doesn't do well on defense.
Here, take a look at your arena. Anyone. See any zFinns? No? So where are they climbing? If no one can see them, they don't exist. Many teams climb at the same time (payouts). Therefore your theory is utter rubbish.
If you just want to nerf zFinn because you don't like your JKRevan being beaten, I understand. But otherwise, you're just cheering for a nerf. Good for you.CG needs at least some people to cheer their every nerf.
There's a zFinn in my top 50 right now, but they usually don't crawl out of the woodwork until it's closer to the common payout times.
But when people use zFinn as a climbing tool, then swap to a defensive team at the end, zFinn is not going to appear on the leader board for them for 23+ hours a day.
It's not a theory. It's a common technique.
Whenever you look it's one of the 23+ hours... It's like those elves and gnomes...
Why would Kyno know? He's not a dev. He's a school crossing guard.
What he said.....
Wait, what?!?!
Perfect Analogy...
He is the school crossing guard of the forum trying to get the oblivious, over excited, little elementary school kid posters who would walk out into traffic without looking or paying attention safely to the other side of the forum without getting squished by a mack truck..
thank you kyno for helping the children !!!!
/▌
/\
Fix the puzzle. Stop ripping people of their investments
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
Please do the right thing and refund the finn zeta.
I have tried him since in different applications and his lead does'nt perform as well anymore.
Please do the right thing and refund the finn zeta.
You are right. His lead has been a little erratic of the past few days - other who also run him have noticed the same issue - and I strongly rely on him to be able to sustain my Darth Revan farm.
Or even better- limiting the rework nerf to the STR! or better still, just giving Treya tenacity up per strike when toppled.
What's really alarming about this is not the dmg, or the fact that you responded so quickly about Droideka on a Friday afternoon/night (despite ignoring us for over a week...) or even the fact that you actually opened a dialogue about Grievous' major miss on the bowels of Reddit, but the fact that this is a 30 second run.
All that needed to be done was one run through with this team in P3, and despite talking about Grievous' raid potential (regardless of marketing him for something else...) this team clearly wasn't tested. Similarly to how your grossly over-exaggerating the potential of x-Brand Zfinn and Grievous in PVP with supposed *thorough testing* to convince us that we aren't being conned with both reworks.
I know you feel that the problem is us because we supposedly have trouble with team synergy, or dont know how to use mods, or are unable to spot a good rework when we see one, but it really really isn't us . This is a business and your supposed to convince people to want to spend money, and I used too, but how are you supposed to convince people to spend money on this game that is not only faulty in so many ways due to 0 testing, but fails to uphold expectations that you set while also plundering people's rosters whenever you feel like it?
This has been disastrous week for this game's developers and players and it would be nice if you actually addressed our concerns with giving zFinn's 1% meta slice to Revan and actually give us a rework that is capable of hard countering Revan.
Being a whale is about being on top of the PVP mountain, which is hard to do when 90% of players around you are running the same team because you keep eliminating the few teams capable of competition, or purposely fail to create a successful contender.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
But it's still a team you can fight and engage. That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
Yae, since you're so eager to nerf Finn and claim he's OP, ignoring multiple players who actually run his team, can you please share your SWGOH.gg profile so we can determine if you really play him and actually have him geared enough to run in arena or if you're just trolling (adding up team TM gain and comparing it to individual TM gain and individual TM reduction. 175%. Hah!)
He has valid points. Maybe don't be so dismissive.
I believe either you or I have mid-read the kit.
It says 3% each resistance ally gains 3% TM = 15%
And Target enemy loses 5% TM, so -25%.
That would be going from 175% TM change to 40% TM change.
Also it would become way more RNG dependent if you are supposed to run the team the same way.
‘Final Text: Resistance allies have +60% Defense, Offense, and Potency, and other allies have half that amount. Each time they damage an Exposed enemy, all Resistance allies gain 3% Turn Meter and the target enemy loses 5% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally. Damaging an Exposed enemy also reduces Resistance allies' cooldowns by 1.’
It's still a decent lead. But it can no longer beat the meta teams. And since it can't do that, I don't care. We have GG now to kill non meta teams. I have countless squads that can kill everything except Revan and Traya. If it can't kill Revan or Traya, it's useless to me
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/196318/disheartened-by-the-grievous-rework-never-fear-bb8-makes-the-team-amazing#latest
In case you didn't see