Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I mistyped guarding 3PO. My writeup clearly had Chewie assisting RT.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I mistyped guarding 3PO. My writeup clearly had Chewie assisting RT.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
I will start by saying that you may or you may not work for EA. You sure sound like you do, though.
Indeed, you are right about the green goblin (GMY) who, if modded right, almost kills a full g12 Han WITH A BASIC FROM AN ASSIST ALONE. He is the main reason Revan sqads are so deadly and probably the reason why Jedi will never get a decent attacker again, based on your logic. So, I guess no conehead jedi whose name I forgot. Only GMY is a tool, not the conductor - that is on Revan.
I did mention I have Revan, right? How high are you on your shard? Do you get to the top every day? I do. It takes 10, sometimes close to 15 battles every day, because every player is leaving Revan on defense.
Do you know what is not healthy for the game? A near endless battle against the same comp that drags for 5 minutes each. Multiply 5 minutes by 10, on a very nice day, and you get 50 minutes of battles alone, plus the waiting time. That is north of 1 hour and a half, only to be able to climb to the top in arena.
Yes, Revan is accessible, super strong and, contrary to what you say, there are very few solid and reliable counters to Revan that don't include long and tedious battles with your own Revan. If you happen to know one, please, would you care to share with us this information??
I am no whale. Far from it. I am an almost ftp guy at 3.3m gp who didn't jump to another ship to get Traya as soon as possible - in fact we started beating HSTR just as 3p0 was released. Like most here, I try hard, really hard to do well in this game. I have only lost 1 battle in GA, my last one, against an opponent who had 57 g12 characters (I have 37), a lot of those with 6 dot mods and he sandbagged his roster by not modding anyone he wouldn't use. Still, I almost beat him.
While you say that Finn is not healthy, I say Revan is not healthy, for obvious reasons, and I bet if you ask around here, my opinion would probably be the more popular one.
Finn is one squad that gives you a fighting chance against most teams, not all of them - again, if you actually ran this team often, you would know. Finn Balboa against Revan Drago, lol. Finn doesn't work well against CLS teams, for example. NS are also very dangerous.
Nothing personal against you, I just don't agree with your stance on this. By the way you write, you seem like someone with deep knowledge of characters abilities and implications on grand scheme of things in this game. As I said, it does look like you are from EA - you might be, or not. It doesn't matter, but it's a good debate.
My main argument is if Finn is accessible and everyone has it, why is it unfair and unhealthy? If that was true, everyone would be running him, right? If Finn were still dominating arena and holding 45 of the top 50, I would 110% agree with you. Not the case here. Clearly not the case.
Gotta say I loathe when the forum discussions get to the point when people start pointing fingers and throwing personal insults...
That being said, one thing is for sure - you're blowing up numbers to prove your point. 175% TM gain is only if you 5 pop exposes which happens how often? And while I agree that Finn lead provides much higher TM gains than Rex, by just solely focusing on the gain and not the conditions under which the gain is applied you obscure the fact that Rex lead is much more versatile than Finn and gains that TM more easily.
No, 175% per expose is the correct number.
One expose grants 35% turn meter to five characters. 175%. 140% if you're using Sidious, Sabine, or IPD.
That's why team TM gain mechanics tend to be much smaller than multi-target. 5% to the team per debuff end for Palp. 10% to the team per expose landed for JTR. Rex is one of the bigger ones at 15% (though out-of-faction gets 7.5%).
And Finn gives 35% to the entire party, which is more than a turn for every Expose popped. That's way beyond any other team TM gain lead in the game. And it's not a hard condition to hit. Land an expose from any source and odds are RT is going next, to immediately pop that bubble, and probably reapply it while they're at it so you can do it again with Finn's takedown.
Compare to new Finn. If you pop a bubble, every Resistance ally gains 3% per Resistance ally, and the target enemy loses 5% per Resistance ally. That's +15% to your team, and -25% to one enemy if they don't exist, which they probably won't because your team gets +60% potency. That's a total of +75% TM, -25% TM, for a net of 100% TM modulation. That's still huge. And RT still gets another 55% for exposes applied.
There aren't many leads that offer more TM manipulation than that.
And you can build a strong team around that. Resistance has eleven units. Two of them- Poe and Pilot- are bad. Poe has enough synergy to work well with new zFinn as a bubble planter, though I do hope he gets a rework in the wake of new Finn. New Finn looks to be a solid unit with a good kit. All three Resistance droids are great. Both Reys are great. Holdo is solid and useful tank. And Rose, despite the "Rose sucks" meme brings a lot to a team.
So.
Option A:
zFinn, Poe, RT, R2, C-3PO.
In this squad, every member can land expose (R2 through his basic thanks to 3PO). Every member can pop expose. One member (Poe) can land multiple expose. Four who can pop and land expose in the same move (R2 and RT basic, Finn Takedown, 3PO mass assist). One can land and pop expose to a single target multiple times in a single move (C3PO's mass assist calling RT and R2). One member who can pop expose on multiple targets (R2). You have a lot of expose going on, at 55% TM modulation for every expose applied (RT Unique) and 100% TM modulation for every expose popped (Finn lead). That is a solid lineup, and I look forward to seeing how it pans out.
Main losses are 3PO from Rebels- slot in Obi, particularly under CLS's zeta lead- and R2 from JTR. The remaining Resistance members still make a solid lineup at double Rey, BB-8, Holdo, Rose. If you need more pre-TM on your BB-8, there are plenty of solid droids you can slot in who aren't spoken for by HK-47 or Grievous. Or pull L3 from the Qi'ra lineup and slot Mission back in. Maybe give Finn Holdo and bring back R2, at the expense of a pile of 3PO synergy.
It's still a decent lead. But it can no longer beat the meta teams. And since it can't do that, I don't care. We have GG now to kill non meta teams. I have countless squads that can kill everything except Revan and Traya. If it can't kill Revan or Traya, it's useless to me
This.
I wouldn't say useless, but the value of the character is not the same.
Do you know what I'm thinking? I'm speculating here. They came out with the nerf and the no zeta refund as the initial offer and, in the end, there will be a nerf (maybe the same they have proposed) and a zeta refund, so they don't seem so bad in the end.
My guess is they intended on refunding the zeta in the first place and this was a way to make people swallow the Finn nerf pill with a little less resistance.
^^^CG is simultaneously killing a Revan killer that is horrible on defense , doesn't even work on offense against many teams, and is no where near affecting the meta like Revan is (in the past 2 days due to who knows what, his meta slice just shot up by 2% in the top 100 and 1% in top 1 through 10 ranks). With zFinn's loop fixed (which is the only thing we wanted without Finn being touched) Revan's team will also conveniently be the highest scoring team in Hsith.
I once again, will not happily accept a refund of zFinn's leadership when I'm essentially getting hung out to dry in GA against people who have both Traya/Revan, and I'm serving as a liability in TW if my guild get's out Revan'ed/out Traya'd since your goal is to take away a Revan counter with 0 intent of actually replacing it.
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I mistyped guarding 3PO. My writeup clearly had Chewie assisting RT.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
Clearly, you have never played ZFinn against Revan. There's a LOT of thing that you need to happen, rng based, and all it takes is ONE of them missing for you to be slaughtered by that green goblin taking 8 turns in a row (balance, right??).
To begin with RT should be guarded, not 3p0.
Han's first shot - it NEVER exposes against Revan, because of tenacity up. My Han is over 100% potency, so there goes part of your theory.
Second, you need Chewie to land his expose, after he applies tenacity down. Thing is, Chewie gets resisted A LOT, even at 100% potency, because Revan squad still has tenacity up. If Chewie's expose doesn't land, bye, bye. Han will shoot next and apply an expose, but with no exposes hit before that and you would need your RT with 1 single expose to be faster than top tier Revans, who are beyong 350 speed.
Sounds easy so far?
Well, there's the issue of RT, Finn and 3p0 needing to work in almost perfect sequence, to spread tenacity down around. Easy? Well, RT can only dispell (he won't apply an expose) if Finn or 3p0 have 100% TM or are very close to it. If you don't, guess what? GMY all over the place, game over.
You cannot hit Jolee without tenacity down and no tenacity up. If you do, exposes will not land reliably and you are doomed.
BTW, you do know that all it takes is for Revan or GMY to take ONE turn and the battle is over, right?? Because they never take just one turn. It's always mlre like 5 to 8 and they will have killed at least 2 characters.
Modding those characters, you will end up sacrificing a lot of speed to guarantee high levels of potency. Moreover, who can compete with Revan squads when it comes to speed? Nobody can outrun Revan.
I have no idea why people think ZFinn beating Revan is easy. It's not. There's close to zero margin of error and, even if you make no mistakes, you might still lose - Han not taking TM off after saviour kicks in, GK calling group hug, boom. Game, set and match.
Is ZFinn a reliable way to beat Revan? I think so, yes. I don't have Traya and I do have Revan. Nobody likes mirror matches. Nobody can possibly enjoy 10 mirror matches of Revan to get to the top of arena every day (normally people drop to around 50 overnight, even krakens on my shard).
In the end, Revan is way too OP, ZFinn has a chance against even krakens while little else does. Is it really something bad for the game? I don't think so. I may be biased, but I do believe firmly that ZFinn is NEEDED as he is, to offer EVERYONE a chance against any Revan. It cannot be deemed as unfair, since everyone has it, so we are all on equal footing on this one.
I mistyped guarding 3PO. My writeup clearly had Chewie assisting RT.
Now, then. My writeup was about the team. Not about the team versus Revan specifically.
That team as it exists is incredibly unhealthy for a game. And it's not just about power, but the fact that any future team that doesn't have a specific counter to the loop will be deleted by the loop of this unchanging lineup.
And as you describe the fight yourself, it's obviously unhealthy play. Either you dovetail into an infinite loop, or you get squished.
The problem is not, "zFinn can beat Revan." The problem is the infinite loop or squish gameplay that can stomp anything that doesn't have a specific counter to it before it even acts. It does not engage the enemy team. It does not fight. It either loops or it dies.
The Revan meta is very powerful. Dominatingly so, in a way the game hasn't seen since the CLS release. But you can actually fight Revan. You engage that team, slug it out, and even if you lose, it's gameplay that can be finagled with in future releases. Not an infinite loop which largely bypasses the enemy team. Going forward, you can engage with that and introduce new content that deals with it, while zFinn creates a design corner such that it was over a year for them to add another decent unit to Resistance who actually engages with the Expose mechanic, and it immediately broke that lead in half.
As to Revan?
Since the second round of the Revan event, Revan is not a P2P character, let alone a kraken character. They are, in fact, very accessible. Revan meta is the most accessible we've had since the Bastila or Palpatine metas. If someone was here for the OR marquees and did not get Revan the second time around, then it is because they chose other priorities. Not because the Revan users are krakens. zFinn v Revan is not the David of F2P players toppling the Goliath of whales. In fact, at this moment, having had two Revan events and one 3PO event, Revan is more available to F2P players than 3PO is right now.
The Revan squad requires a journey character with the most forgiving requirements so far. No legendaries to get Revan. Mostly double hard node farms. Not a terribly difficult event. Two of the units are immediately useful for a Revan squad. Then to round out the team, you need the easiest legendary to get in the game and the midling raid toon.
As compared to the two most notable other squads right now, Traya, the hardest raid character to get, and the Rebel quartet, which is usually a team of all legendary/raid characters, including two that were at an unprecedented difficulty, and one of those has only come around once.
And the problem is not "Revan is way too OP." Revan was a trigger, but if any single character in the Jedi lineup is the OP issue, I wouldn't say it's Revan.
What is the strategy of the current Jedi meta team?
You have five different ways to call assists. Two different ways to give counter. One way to give someone an additional turn. Two ways to bring back someone who was defeated. And multiple vectors for buffs and healing.
This is a lot of support and sustain. But support does nothing if you have nothing to support.
The reason Revan teams are so dangerous is not Revan. It's that every aspect of the team funnels into protecting, preserving, empowering, accelerating, and calling on Grandmaster Yoda as an absolute wrecking ball, and what makes all that support and synergy explode.
I think the precedent was set when CG did the daka refund and this is a much worse downgrade.
That's... questionable.
Paper zombie was the Daka zeta engine in most applications, and what really made the zeta useful. The forced weight gain program of the zombie rework removed that engine. As opposed to Asajj's unique, which while not triggering nearly so often still triggered enough to be very useful.
Finn's primary use isn't cheesing Revan. It's a general purpose offensive team that can take down a lot of relevant defenses. First Order, Phoenix, hunters, et cetera. Old zFinn TM engine was a 175% TM swing per bubble popped. New zFinn TM engine is a 100% TM swing per bubble popped, with more raw power. While it's not likely to find itself infinite looping any time soon, it's still a solid engine, it should still be up to the task of taking on a variety of relevant defensive threats. Except this time, it's by fighting rather than looping.
I will start by saying that you may or you may not work for EA. You sure sound like you do, though.
Indeed, you are right about the green goblin (GMY) who, if modded right, almost kills a full g12 Han WITH A BASIC FROM AN ASSIST ALONE. He is the main reason Revan sqads are so deadly and probably the reason why Jedi will never get a decent attacker again, based on your logic. So, I guess no conehead jedi whose name I forgot. Only GMY is a tool, not the conductor - that is on Revan.
I did mention I have Revan, right? How high are you on your shard? Do you get to the top every day? I do. It takes 10, sometimes close to 15 battles every day, because every player is leaving Revan on defense.
Do you know what is not healthy for the game? A near endless battle against the same comp that drags for 5 minutes each. Multiply 5 minutes by 10, on a very nice day, and you get 50 minutes of battles alone, plus the waiting time. That is north of 1 hour and a half, only to be able to climb to the top in arena.
Yes, Revan is accessible, super strong and, contrary to what you say, there are very few solid and reliable counters to Revan that don't include long and tedious battles with your own Revan. If you happen to know one, please, would you care to share with us this information??
I am no whale. Far from it. I am an almost ftp guy at 3.3m gp who didn't jump to another ship to get Traya as soon as possible - in fact we started beating HSTR just as 3p0 was released. Like most here, I try hard, really hard to do well in this game. I have only lost 1 battle in GA, my last one, against an opponent who had 57 g12 characters (I have 37), a lot of those with 6 dot mods and he sandbagged his roster by not modding anyone he wouldn't use. Still, I almost beat him.
While you say that Finn is not healthy, I say Revan is not healthy, for obvious reasons, and I bet if you ask around here, my opinion would probably be the more popular one.
Finn is one squad that gives you a fighting chance against most teams, not all of them - again, if you actually ran this team often, you would know. Finn Balboa against Revan Drago, lol. Finn doesn't work well against CLS teams, for example. NS are also very dangerous.
Nothing personal against you, I just don't agree with your stance on this. By the way you write, you seem like someone with deep knowledge of characters abilities and implications on grand scheme of things in this game. As I said, it does look like you are from EA - you might be, or not. It doesn't matter, but it's a good debate.
My main argument is if Finn is accessible and everyone has it, why is it unfair and unhealthy? If that was true, everyone would be running him, right? If Finn were still dominating arena and holding 45 of the top 50, I would 110% agree with you. Not the case here. Clearly not the case.
Just an FYI - if you need a Revan killer Nightsisters are as good as zFinn, if not even better, you don't even need that good mods, you just need all the G12+ pieces. I know, I know, they're great on defense and work on a ton of other teams but zFinn is apparently getting nerfed regardless of how we feel about it so you may as well go with the flow and gear up alternatives.
Just an FYI - if you need a Revan killer Nightsisters are as good as zFinn, if not even better, you don't even need that good mods, you just need all the G12+ pieces. I know, I know, they're great on defense and work on a ton of other teams but zFinn is apparently getting nerfed regardless of how we feel about it so you may as well go with the flow and gear up alternatives.
Thanks for the suggestion and my mods are stacked with my NS having speeds from 250-290 all g12 with extra gear and it's still really a shot in the dark . I was losing against Revan's with inferior speeds to mine because as mentioned above, the green goblin was just attacking over and over again and the ai generally aims for Daka repeatedly.
zFinn isnt foolproof and it doesnt work against Revan teams stacked with tenacity, but at least you know that in advance. zFinn has been way more reliable for me than NS ever where, and I ran them for months.
Do what you have to with Finn to combat an infinite loop, but do the right thing and return the zeta. I only zetad Finn well AFTER C3PO released and BECAUSE of the synergy. CG has never done me wrong before...so this would be a first. And I won’t take it well.
So since CG doesn't really ever think things through, im curios does Finn even have the stats to tank in the current meta of the game? I mean its a very old character and resistance is very frail to begin with.
what do you guys think? I am digging the new stacking dmg on his basic, you can slap him on JTR p1 squad instead of c3 for example, that could work out well. Its just that his new lead has no place in the game at all. Or at least seems that way. Either way, its not the zeta most of us purchased many moons ago so the only right way to handle this would be either to leave Finn alone or if devs are dead set on doing this, refund the zeta.
I would try him out with CD/CC, I guess, under JTR, replacing Scavenger Rey.
I will start by saying that you may or you may not work for EA. You sure sound like you do, though.
Indeed, you are right about the green goblin (GMY) who, if modded right, almost kills a full g12 Han WITH A BASIC FROM AN ASSIST ALONE. He is the main reason Revan sqads are so deadly and probably the reason why Jedi will never get a decent attacker again, based on your logic. So, I guess no conehead jedi whose name I forgot. Only GMY is a tool, not the conductor - that is on Revan.
I did mention I have Revan, right? How high are you on your shard? Do you get to the top every day? I do. It takes 10, sometimes close to 15 battles every day, because every player is leaving Revan on defense.
Do you know what is not healthy for the game? A near endless battle against the same comp that drags for 5 minutes each. Multiply 5 minutes by 10, on a very nice day, and you get 50 minutes of battles alone, plus the waiting time. That is north of 1 hour and a half, only to be able to climb to the top in arena.
Yes, Revan is accessible, super strong and, contrary to what you say, there are very few solid and reliable counters to Revan that don't include long and tedious battles with your own Revan. If you happen to know one, please, would you care to share with us this information??
I am no whale. Far from it. I am an almost ftp guy at 3.3m gp who didn't jump to another ship to get Traya as soon as possible - in fact we started beating HSTR just as 3p0 was released. Like most here, I try hard, really hard to do well in this game. I have only lost 1 battle in GA, my last one, against an opponent who had 57 g12 characters (I have 37), a lot of those with 6 dot mods and he sandbagged his roster by not modding anyone he wouldn't use. Still, I almost beat him.
While you say that Finn is not healthy, I say Revan is not healthy, for obvious reasons, and I bet if you ask around here, my opinion would probably be the more popular one.
Finn is one squad that gives you a fighting chance against most teams, not all of them - again, if you actually ran this team often, you would know. Finn Balboa against Revan Drago, lol. Finn doesn't work well against CLS teams, for example. NS are also very dangerous.
Nothing personal against you, I just don't agree with your stance on this. By the way you write, you seem like someone with deep knowledge of characters abilities and implications on grand scheme of things in this game. As I said, it does look like you are from EA - you might be, or not. It doesn't matter, but it's a good debate.
My main argument is if Finn is accessible and everyone has it, why is it unfair and unhealthy? If that was true, everyone would be running him, right? If Finn were still dominating arena and holding 45 of the top 50, I would 110% agree with you. Not the case here. Clearly not the case.
I did not say Revan meta was good or healthy. But it's just that. A meta.
People got tired of Palpatine meta, and Bastila meta, and Traya meta, and CLS meta, and Chaze meta, and dodge meta.
Now there's Revan meta.
Yes, it's the most defensive meta we've seen in a long time. Yes, it's the most ubiquitous meta we've had since CLS. But it's still just that; a meta.
And something will come along to shift that meta. Whether it's Darth Revan/Malak, or new toons from the Resistance series, or legendary Therm Scissorpunch. Something is gonna give, and the game will move on, and then we'll all get sick of the new meta.
But zFinn is a persistent problem. One that won't be solved by zzJar Jar serving as a bridge lead between Sith and the new Naboo faction to take the arena by storm.
The fact that it doesn't hold is not the issue. The fact that it's a nigh-universal climbing tool against almost anything that could come to the game before even engaging with it is.
Thanks again, CG, for making two straight Raid-related nerfs that remove my ability to stay at the fringes of the 100’s in arena. I’m FTP, I get that, but zFinn was the only way I could break the top 100 these days (seeing as you nerfed NSA, making Nightsisters unusable for PvP).
I don’t have Revan, and my Bastila and Treya are works in progress. The Grievous rework better knock my freaking socks off, or I’m done.
Welp, socks still firmly on my feet. So sick of the Revan meta, and close to quitting.
Just an FYI - if you need a Revan killer Nightsisters are as good as zFinn, if not even better, you don't even need that good mods, you just need all the G12+ pieces. I know, I know, they're great on defense and work on a ton of other teams but zFinn is apparently getting nerfed regardless of how we feel about it so you may as well go with the flow and gear up alternatives.
Thanks for the suggestion and my mods are stacked with my NS having speeds from 250-290 all g12 with extra gear and it's still really a shot in the dark . I was losing against Revan's with inferior speeds to mine because as mentioned above, the green goblin was just attacking over and over again and the ai generally aims for Daka repeatedly.
Interesting, I haven't lost against a Revan in ages and I practice with NS frequently so I'm not out of touch for GA and TW. You can see my team on
GG: https://swgoh.gg/p/924698129/
I think Daka's zeta is mandatory if you want consistency - after a few rounds of revives, even mark and mass assist can't kill her.
Dear CG,
34 pages of community(customer/player) comments later, we have seen neither hide nor hair of a single CG community manger. Fortunately the Reddit community gets to see multiple engagement of CG community managers on the inadequate GG rework. However, here's hoping your internal forums will be graced by your presence at some point in time.
In the meanwhile, let us reiterate what so much of your community who actually use zFinn (vs the armchair generals who are reticent to share their swgoh.gg profiles lest we see they're academicians and not actual players) would like. Here are options we would like in order of decreasing favourability
Don't do the rework nerf at all (come on, it's P3 of an over year old raid)- don't make us leave guilds who are only now approaching the HST raids because we otherwise become uncompetitive in GA.
Modify Treya post-topple in the HSTR P3
Make the rework nerf only active in the HSTR (a simple coding change). Even make it a %ge chance of TM gain in the raids...
Refund the zetas and gear on zFinn (he's a whole different character than the one we invested in)
Refund just the zeta on zFinn
For the love of God @CG_Carrie@CG_TopHat@CG_SBCrumb, engage with your community on the rework nerf you supposedly dropped for comment.
Dear CG,
34 pages of community(customer/player) comments later, we have seen neither hide nor hair of a single CG community manger. Fortunately the Reddit community gets to see multiple engagement of CG community managers on the inadequate GG rework. However, here's hoping your internal forums will be graced by your presence at some point in time.
In the meanwhile, let us reiterate what so much of your community who actually use zFinn (vs the armchair generals who are reticent to share their swgoh.gg profiles lest we see they're academicians and not actual players) would like. Here are options we would like in order of decreasing favourability
Don't do the rework nerf at all (come on, it's P3 of an over year old raid)- don't make us leave guilds who are only now approaching the HST raids because we otherwise become uncompetitive in GA.
Modify Treya post-topple in the HSTR P3
Make the rework nerf only active in the HSTR (a simple coding change). Even make it a %ge chance of TM gain in the raids...
Refund the zetas and gear on zFinn (he's a whole different character than the one we invested in)
Refund just the zeta on zFinn
For the love of God @CG_Carrie@CG_TopHat@CG_SBCrumb, engage with your community on the rework nerf you supposedly dropped for comment.
You should 'you' want, and not 'we' want. The forums have many views, and many silent views. Using 'we' you speak on behalf of everyone, and in my case, I'd prefer you don't speak for me. I can speak for myself. Not trying to be mean, just articulating my 'pov'.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
Dear CG,
34 pages of community(customer/player) comments later, we have seen neither hide nor hair of a single CG community manger. Fortunately the Reddit community gets to see multiple engagement of CG community managers on the inadequate GG rework. However, here's hoping your internal forums will be graced by your presence at some point in time.
In the meanwhile, let us reiterate what so much of your community who actually use zFinn (vs the armchair generals who are reticent to share their swgoh.gg profiles lest we see they're academicians and not actual players) would like. Here are options we would like in order of decreasing favourability
Don't do the rework nerf at all (come on, it's P3 of an over year old raid)- don't make us leave guilds who are only now approaching the HST raids because we otherwise become uncompetitive in GA.
Modify Treya post-topple in the HSTR P3
Make the rework nerf only active in the HSTR (a simple coding change). Even make it a %ge chance of TM gain in the raids...
Refund the zetas and gear on zFinn (he's a whole different character than the one we invested in)
Refund just the zeta on zFinn
For the love of God @CG_Carrie@CG_TopHat@CG_SBCrumb, engage with your community on the rework nerf you supposedly dropped for comment.
Dear CG,
34 pages of community(customer/player) comments later, we have seen neither hide nor hair of a single CG community manger. Fortunately the Reddit community gets to see multiple engagement of CG community managers on the inadequate GG rework. However, here's hoping your internal forums will be graced by your presence at some point in time.
In the meanwhile, let us reiterate what so much of your community who actually use zFinn (vs the armchair generals who are reticent to share their swgoh.gg profiles lest we see they're academicians and not actual players) would like. Here are options we would like in order of decreasing favourability
Don't do the rework nerf at all (come on, it's P3 of an over year old raid)- don't make us leave guilds who are only now approaching the HST raids because we otherwise become uncompetitive in GA.
Modify Treya post-topple in the HSTR P3
Make the rework nerf only active in the HSTR (a simple coding change). Even make it a %ge chance of TM gain in the raids...
Refund the zetas and gear on zFinn (he's a whole different character than the one we invested in)
Refund just the zeta on zFinn
For the love of God @CG_Carrie@CG_TopHat@CG_SBCrumb, engage with your community on the rework nerf you supposedly dropped for comment.
You should 'you' want, and not 'we' want. The forums have many views, and many silent views. Using 'we' you speak on behalf of everyone, and in my case, I'd prefer you don't speak for me. I can speak for myself. Not trying to be mean, just articulating my 'pov'.
He speaks for me , so we works , nowhere does we mean everyone.
so what is YOUR opinion then, since you come on here complaining about his?
Dear CG,
34 pages of community(customer/player) comments later, we have seen neither hide nor hair of a single CG community manger. Fortunately the Reddit community gets to see multiple engagement of CG community managers on the inadequate GG rework. However, here's hoping your internal forums will be graced by your presence at some point in time.
In the meanwhile, let us reiterate what so much of your community who actually use zFinn (vs the armchair generals who are reticent to share their swgoh.gg profiles lest we see they're academicians and not actual players) would like. Here are options we would like in order of decreasing favourability
Don't do the rework nerf at all (come on, it's P3 of an over year old raid)- don't make us leave guilds who are only now approaching the HST raids because we otherwise become uncompetitive in GA.
Modify Treya post-topple in the HSTR P3
Make the rework nerf only active in the HSTR (a simple coding change). Even make it a %ge chance of TM gain in the raids...
Refund the zetas and gear on zFinn (he's a whole different character than the one we invested in)
Refund just the zeta on zFinn
For the love of God @CG_Carrie@CG_TopHat@CG_SBCrumb, engage with your community on the rework nerf you supposedly dropped for comment.
You should 'you' want, and not 'we' want. The forums have many views, and many silent views. Using 'we' you speak on behalf of everyone, and in my case, I'd prefer you don't speak for me. I can speak for myself. Not trying to be mean, just articulating my 'pov'.
He speaks for me as well. Maybe you should just be one of those silent views you mentioned.
(2) They’ve had a lot of opportunity to make the Finn rework go live, but they haven’t yet. Seems like they’re deliberating. I bet that they’re very split on this.
But no matter how it goes down, they’re listening. They’ve got bosses that they have to answer to just like everyone else.
We have over 1000 replies on this thread but not one comment from ANY of your staff regarding the vast majority of concerns laid out in this thread.
If you ACTUALLY cared about your players you would have responded or updated us on the situation. Congratulations you have lost another paying customer. I love this game but you genuinely don't deserve another penny from myself.
We have over 1000 replies on this thread but not one comment from ANY of your staff regarding the vast majority of concerns laid out in this thread.
If you ACTUALLY cared about your players you would have responded or updated us on the situation. Congratulations you have lost another paying customer. I love this game but you genuinely don't deserve another penny from myself.
If they were going to reply- and I have little doubt there will be a reply of some sort when it's not the weekend- what reason would they possibly have to give that reply here? This thread is full of torches and pitchforks and, "Show yourself so I can flame you!" and this thread moves so fast any response will be immediately dogpiled and buried, and this forum already has a section for dev announcements that would be infinitely more suited to the task.
We have over 1000 replies on this thread but not one comment from ANY of your staff regarding the vast majority of concerns laid out in this thread.
If you ACTUALLY cared about your players you would have responded or updated us on the situation. Congratulations you have lost another paying customer. I love this game but you genuinely don't deserve another penny from myself.
If they were going to reply- and I have little doubt there will be a reply of some sort when it's not the weekend- what reason would they possibly have to give that reply here? This thread is full of torches and pitchforks and, "Show yourself so I can flame you!" and this thread moves so fast any response will be immediately dogpiled and buried, and this forum already has a section for dev announcements that would be infinitely more suited to the task.
You're absolutely right that this thread is full of people with torches. You're also absolutely right that they other sections of the forums to post an update. They however haven't posted any update on any part of the forum. On the original post they said they looked forward to hearing our feedback. Clearly they had no intention of changing their approach, if they were open to revising this nerf they would have updated us by now.
All I'm saying is that I'll be stopping all spending on this game because of their atrocious lack of communication and poor decision making over the last few months. They will nerf any toon necessary that makes the dull, RNG-fest they call the "sith raid" doable instead of admitting that it is a crap raid with poor design.
We have over 1000 replies on this thread but not one comment from ANY of your staff regarding the vast majority of concerns laid out in this thread.
If you ACTUALLY cared about your players you would have responded or updated us on the situation. Congratulations you have lost another paying customer. I love this game but you genuinely don't deserve another penny from myself.
If they were going to reply- and I have little doubt there will be a reply of some sort when it's not the weekend- what reason would they possibly have to give that reply here? This thread is full of torches and pitchforks and, "Show yourself so I can flame you!" and this thread moves so fast any response will be immediately dogpiled and buried, and this forum already has a section for dev announcements that would be infinitely more suited to the task.
This might be a valid argument IF they had responded to the concerns in any of those other places, at all, over the past nine days since the announcement (five of which have been business days). But they haven’t, so your point is moot.
They’re employing the same “wait and let the rage burn out” strategy that they used during the Acolyte fix. And why shouldn’t they, it worked then. Everyone eventually lost interest and/or found something else to be **** about. What they underestimate though, is that those events build up over time. Eventually it will end up costing them something, it’s just yet to be seen when and how much.
Replies
I will start by saying that you may or you may not work for EA. You sure sound like you do, though.
Indeed, you are right about the green goblin (GMY) who, if modded right, almost kills a full g12 Han WITH A BASIC FROM AN ASSIST ALONE. He is the main reason Revan sqads are so deadly and probably the reason why Jedi will never get a decent attacker again, based on your logic. So, I guess no conehead jedi whose name I forgot. Only GMY is a tool, not the conductor - that is on Revan.
I did mention I have Revan, right? How high are you on your shard? Do you get to the top every day? I do. It takes 10, sometimes close to 15 battles every day, because every player is leaving Revan on defense.
Do you know what is not healthy for the game? A near endless battle against the same comp that drags for 5 minutes each. Multiply 5 minutes by 10, on a very nice day, and you get 50 minutes of battles alone, plus the waiting time. That is north of 1 hour and a half, only to be able to climb to the top in arena.
Yes, Revan is accessible, super strong and, contrary to what you say, there are very few solid and reliable counters to Revan that don't include long and tedious battles with your own Revan. If you happen to know one, please, would you care to share with us this information??
I am no whale. Far from it. I am an almost ftp guy at 3.3m gp who didn't jump to another ship to get Traya as soon as possible - in fact we started beating HSTR just as 3p0 was released. Like most here, I try hard, really hard to do well in this game. I have only lost 1 battle in GA, my last one, against an opponent who had 57 g12 characters (I have 37), a lot of those with 6 dot mods and he sandbagged his roster by not modding anyone he wouldn't use. Still, I almost beat him.
While you say that Finn is not healthy, I say Revan is not healthy, for obvious reasons, and I bet if you ask around here, my opinion would probably be the more popular one.
Finn is one squad that gives you a fighting chance against most teams, not all of them - again, if you actually ran this team often, you would know. Finn Balboa against Revan Drago, lol. Finn doesn't work well against CLS teams, for example. NS are also very dangerous.
Nothing personal against you, I just don't agree with your stance on this. By the way you write, you seem like someone with deep knowledge of characters abilities and implications on grand scheme of things in this game. As I said, it does look like you are from EA - you might be, or not. It doesn't matter, but it's a good debate.
My main argument is if Finn is accessible and everyone has it, why is it unfair and unhealthy? If that was true, everyone would be running him, right? If Finn were still dominating arena and holding 45 of the top 50, I would 110% agree with you. Not the case here. Clearly not the case.
This.
I wouldn't say useless, but the value of the character is not the same.
Do you know what I'm thinking? I'm speculating here. They came out with the nerf and the no zeta refund as the initial offer and, in the end, there will be a nerf (maybe the same they have proposed) and a zeta refund, so they don't seem so bad in the end.
My guess is they intended on refunding the zeta in the first place and this was a way to make people swallow the Finn nerf pill with a little less resistance.
I once again, will not happily accept a refund of zFinn's leadership when I'm essentially getting hung out to dry in GA against people who have both Traya/Revan, and I'm serving as a liability in TW if my guild get's out Revan'ed/out Traya'd since your goal is to take away a Revan counter with 0 intent of actually replacing it.
^ This. Bravo! The silent majority are with you.
Being treated this way makes me want all the money I've spent refunded and you can keep your ...........
Thanks for the suggestion and my mods are stacked with my NS having speeds from 250-290 all g12 with extra gear and it's still really a shot in the dark
zFinn isnt foolproof and it doesnt work against Revan teams stacked with tenacity, but at least you know that in advance. zFinn has been way more reliable for me than NS ever where, and I ran them for months.
Never. Lucky you.
in the box,
What's in the box today?
Open the lid and Refund Finn's Zeta
I would try him out with CD/CC, I guess, under JTR, replacing Scavenger Rey.
People got tired of Palpatine meta, and Bastila meta, and Traya meta, and CLS meta, and Chaze meta, and dodge meta.
Now there's Revan meta.
Yes, it's the most defensive meta we've seen in a long time. Yes, it's the most ubiquitous meta we've had since CLS. But it's still just that; a meta.
And something will come along to shift that meta. Whether it's Darth Revan/Malak, or new toons from the Resistance series, or legendary Therm Scissorpunch. Something is gonna give, and the game will move on, and then we'll all get sick of the new meta.
But zFinn is a persistent problem. One that won't be solved by zzJar Jar serving as a bridge lead between Sith and the new Naboo faction to take the arena by storm.
The fact that it doesn't hold is not the issue. The fact that it's a nigh-universal climbing tool against almost anything that could come to the game before even engaging with it is.
Welp, socks still firmly on my feet. So sick of the Revan meta, and close to quitting.
Interesting, I haven't lost against a Revan in ages and I practice with NS frequently so I'm not out of touch for GA and TW. You can see my team on
GG: https://swgoh.gg/p/924698129/
I think Daka's zeta is mandatory if you want consistency - after a few rounds of revives, even mark and mass assist can't kill her.
34 pages of community(customer/player) comments later, we have seen neither hide nor hair of a single CG community manger. Fortunately the Reddit community gets to see multiple engagement of CG community managers on the inadequate GG rework. However, here's hoping your internal forums will be graced by your presence at some point in time.
In the meanwhile, let us reiterate what so much of your community who actually use zFinn (vs the armchair generals who are reticent to share their swgoh.gg profiles lest we see they're academicians and not actual players) would like. Here are options we would like in order of decreasing favourability
- Don't do the rework nerf at all (come on, it's P3 of an over year old raid)- don't make us leave guilds who are only now approaching the HST raids because we otherwise become uncompetitive in GA.
- Modify Treya post-topple in the HSTR P3
- Make the rework nerf only active in the HSTR (a simple coding change). Even make it a %ge chance of TM gain in the raids...
- Refund the zetas and gear on zFinn (he's a whole different character than the one we invested in)
- Refund just the zeta on zFinn
For the love of God @CG_Carrie @CG_TopHat @CG_SBCrumb, engage with your community on the rework nerf you supposedly dropped for comment.You should 'you' want, and not 'we' want. The forums have many views, and many silent views. Using 'we' you speak on behalf of everyone, and in my case, I'd prefer you don't speak for me. I can speak for myself. Not trying to be mean, just articulating my 'pov'.
Use your Noodle!
Noodle! Do the Noodle dance!
... I got it! Finns Zeta must be refunded!
I agree
He speaks for me , so we works , nowhere does we mean everyone.
so what is YOUR opinion then, since you come on here complaining about his?
He speaks for me as well. Maybe you should just be one of those silent views you mentioned.
Just grammaz complaints lock it up if grammarsz all ppl cares aboot
(1) The heat isn’t dying down.
(2) They’ve had a lot of opportunity to make the Finn rework go live, but they haven’t yet. Seems like they’re deliberating. I bet that they’re very split on this.
But no matter how it goes down, they’re listening. They’ve got bosses that they have to answer to just like everyone else.
We have over 1000 replies on this thread but not one comment from ANY of your staff regarding the vast majority of concerns laid out in this thread.
If you ACTUALLY cared about your players you would have responded or updated us on the situation. Congratulations you have lost another paying customer. I love this game but you genuinely don't deserve another penny from myself.
You're absolutely right that this thread is full of people with torches. You're also absolutely right that they other sections of the forums to post an update. They however haven't posted any update on any part of the forum. On the original post they said they looked forward to hearing our feedback. Clearly they had no intention of changing their approach, if they were open to revising this nerf they would have updated us by now.
All I'm saying is that I'll be stopping all spending on this game because of their atrocious lack of communication and poor decision making over the last few months. They will nerf any toon necessary that makes the dull, RNG-fest they call the "sith raid" doable instead of admitting that it is a crap raid with poor design.
This might be a valid argument IF they had responded to the concerns in any of those other places, at all, over the past nine days since the announcement (five of which have been business days). But they haven’t, so your point is moot.
They’re employing the same “wait and let the rage burn out” strategy that they used during the Acolyte fix. And why shouldn’t they, it worked then. Everyone eventually lost interest and/or found something else to be **** about. What they underestimate though, is that those events build up over time. Eventually it will end up costing them something, it’s just yet to be seen when and how much.
We don't need no thought control
No darn sarcasm in the forums
Devs just leave them heroes alone
Hey Devs leave them heroes alone.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall..