Has it sunk in yet?

Ryzak620
213 posts Member
Have the developers finally gotten that Revan has killed any fun left in the arena?
Here are some straight facts, no opinion.
1. The previous Traya meta did not have 88% of all leaders with her, as the lead as it is with Revan
2. The group composition is mostly the same five (Revan, Bast, GMY, GK, Jollee). The only 2 subs I've seen is Chewie or Ezra
3. The top 50+ is literally all one squad
4. The sheer number of threads against this meta
5. While there are several counters to Revan, not a single one allows the player to hold for any length of time

Clarifications
1. I do have Revan, full zeta, with a ridiculous speed
2. I've run mirrors and counters. Counters are more fun (no time outs), but mirror is more reliable
3. I've been playing since 1 month after launch, and until the last 6 months have been a frequent spender on this game, with a GP over 5 million

The purpose of those clarifications is to show that I know what I'm talking about and that this meta has caused many people to outright quit, or at least, like me, stop spending money, hoping for a true counter (that means one that holds on defense to a certain point).
Simply put, Revan is over-powered. Combine that with Jollee and his mass resurrection, and it truly sucks the fun out of arena.

My main concern is that the developers will react to this situation by releasing a new character to counter Revan and be so powerful that the meta switches to this new character leaving us in the same situation we are now. This would not solve any issues, but continue to isolate what the players really want.
My suggestion, which, unfortunately would require a lot more work, is to balance this game. In an effort to wow us with new characters, a lot of others (and quite frankly, more important characters) have been left useless.
Look at it this way.....In GoH, the most powerful character ever is Revan. Was Revan more powerful than Palpatine, Vader, Kenobi, Yoda?? Since they lived in different eras, we can never actually answer that, but, since Revan isn't even canon, how can you ignore these others in favor of him? I think that most would agree that a more realistic order of power would be: Palpatine, Yoda, Vader / Kenobi, JK Luke.

Replies

  • Woodroward
    3411 posts Member
    Revan is canon. There was an official novel about him released recentlyish.
  • Ryzak620
    213 posts Member
    That's new then. Until that point he was not. My points still remain.
  • Ryzak620 wrote: »
    Have the developers finally gotten that Revan has killed any fun left in the arena?
    In GoH, the most powerful character ever is Revan. Was Revan more powerful than Palpatine, Vader, Kenobi, Yoda?? Since they lived in different eras, we can never actually answer that, but, since Revan isn't even canon, how can you ignore these others in favor of him? I think that most would agree that a more realistic order of power would be: Palpatine, Yoda, Vader / Kenobi, JK Luke.

    ShRevan (the version of Revan in Shadow of Revan) is less powerful than prime Palpatine (he's around legends RotS Palpatine and Yoda) but more powerful than prime Vader, Kenobi (easily), and Luke. The realistic order of power (in terms of prime and canon only) would be Palpatine, Revan, Yoda, JK Luke, Vader, then Kenobi.

    Your point is quite moot, as Palpatine = meta. Revan = meta. Yoda = meta. Luke = meta. Kenobi = meta.
    Revan is overpowered and they are going to balance it, but using canon material as the justification for it is just poor logic, as almost all of the characters you mentioned are already meta (jedi under Revan, CLS w/ Chewie, Palpatine w/ Sith).
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Revan is canon. There was an official novel about him released recentlyish.

    And you are wrong. Revan isn't canon, as the "Revan" novel by Drew Karpyshyn is not canon. There is no canon novel about him; the closest Revan came to being in the new canon was when George Lucas ALMOST had him appear in The Clone Wars during the Mortis Arc.
  • Ryzak620
    213 posts Member
    Palpatine was meta for about a month after his initial rework, then back to being a side toon. When most people talk meta, they are usually talking about the leader. And you are right, that all of those were meta at one point or another (except perhaps GMY, who was never a leading toon). But even when every single one of those other ones were meta, there were plenty of other squads available to beat the meta on offense and be able to reliably hold on defense (to an extent).

    And, of all the threads I've read on this topic, this is the first time I've heard anything about them nerfing Revan. Do you have a source on this?
  • Nikoms565
    10943 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Revan is canon. There was an official novel about him released recentlyish.

    Ummmm...

    the-point-you-24487436.png

    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565
    10943 posts Member
    edited March 6
    To most of the OP's original point (except for the last paragraph, which meanders off-point):

    As a launch player I agree. This meta is by far the most boring in 3+ years. But, I don't think CG cares. Player enjoyment is secondary (if that high) to them. As long as the whales keep allowing themselves to milked for the newest meta-defining ship or character, CG will simply keep releasing one after the other.

    Sadly, the number of whales quitting isn't showing up in the data the way you might think, because their accounts aren't going inactive. If CG would simply look at the number of whale accounts that have suddenly changed time-zones, names and activity times, they would realize what most long-time guilds knew months ago - most intelligent whales are quitting and simply "giving" their accounts to other guild members.

    We had 3 of biggest spenders leave the game - and all of their accounts are still "active".

    But CG either hasn't figured it out yet or doesn't really care. Either is a concerning conclusion.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Ryzak620 wrote: »
    Palpatine was meta for about a month after his initial rework, then back to being a side toon. When most people talk meta, they are usually talking about the leader. And you are right, that all of those were meta at one point or another (except perhaps GMY, who was never a leading toon). But even when every single one of those other ones were meta, there were plenty of other squads available to beat the meta on offense and be able to reliably hold on defense (to an extent).

    And, of all the threads I've read on this topic, this is the first time I've heard anything about them nerfing Revan. Do you have a source on this?

    I never said they were nerfing him, I said that they'd balance the situation.
  • The arena will change again like it has many times. You're chasing ranks, that's why it's no fun to you. You can't say one character broke the arena and then 6 months later say someone else broke it and so on. In 6 to 12 months there will be a change just like 1 year ago, 2 years ago and 3 years ago.

    If you're stressed that much about top 50 then maybe it's time to take a step back and work on other toons that need attention. Its a fact that if you chase the ranks then you best be prepared for a battle. 50 people is not a lot of people, just wait for the 5 year mark when even more players start to join and rank up. Every year that goes by the game will get harder and harder as more context comes in.

    Pick and choose your battles wisely as the game will only get harder as more context shoes up. As more toons come even more off the wall squads will show up as well.
  • Woodroward
    3411 posts Member
    edited March 7
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Revan is canon. There was an official novel about him released recentlyish.

    And you are wrong. Revan isn't canon, as the "Revan" novel by Drew Karpyshyn is not canon. There is no canon novel about him; the closest Revan came to being in the new canon was when George Lucas ALMOST had him appear in The Clone Wars during the Mortis Arc.
    @DarthNekros
    I am not wrong. Canon doesn't mean written by the creator, it means approved by the one in control (hence why everything in legends was canon when it was the EU)
    The latest Revan novel is canon as it was made with Disney's permission. (could not have been made otherwise).
  • Nikoms565
    10943 posts Member
    casper1jr wrote: »
    The arena will change again like it has many times. You're chasing ranks, that's why it's no fun to you. You can't say one character broke the arena and then 6 months later say someone else broke it and so on. In 6 to 12 months there will be a change just like 1 year ago, 2 years ago and 3 years ago.

    If you're stressed that much about top 50 then maybe it's time to take a step back and work on other toons that need attention. Its a fact that if you chase the ranks then you best be prepared for a battle. 50 people is not a lot of people, just wait for the 5 year mark when even more players start to join and rank up. Every year that goes by the game will get harder and harder as more context comes in.

    Pick and choose your battles wisely as the game will only get harder as more context shoes up. As more toons come even more off the wall squads will show up as well.

    Amazing. Everything you just said is wrong.

    New people joining have no effect whatsoever on any current players' arena. Players arenas don't get "added to" over time. You are in the same squad arena you were assigned to when you started - and it doesn't change. Ever.

    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • casper1jr wrote: »
    The arena will change again like it has many times. You're chasing ranks, that's why it's no fun to you. You can't say one character broke the arena and then 6 months later say someone else broke it and so on. In 6 to 12 months there will be a change just like 1 year ago, 2 years ago and 3 years ago.

    If you're stressed that much about top 50 then maybe it's time to take a step back and work on other toons that need attention. Its a fact that if you chase the ranks then you best be prepared for a battle. 50 people is not a lot of people, just wait for the 5 year mark when even more players start to join and rank up. Every year that goes by the game will get harder and harder as more context comes in.

    Pick and choose your battles wisely as the game will only get harder as more context shoes up. As more toons come even more off the wall squads will show up as well.

    Arena always changes, and I always adjust to it. I've always been an anti-meta person. When GK/Zarriss was meta, I used a Nihilus led squad. When it was Wiggs and Chaze, I used something else (don't remember, it's been so long). When it was Traya, I used Jango and other BH. All of my "anti-meta" squads were also able to hold on defense (to an extent).
    I'm not stressed about anything. It's simply not fun now. I have never cared about how far I would drop between play sessions. But, I enjoy different challenges as opposed to one. As I pointed out originally, I have never seen a time when 88% (89% as of this morning) of arena #1's are the same leader. That should be screaming to anyone with half of a brain. When Traya was the main lead, I don't believe I ever saw it more than 60% (which, IMO, is still too high). When it was RJT and CLS, it was around 50%.

    There are so many fun characters and squads that could be fun to try in different areas, but they are pigeonholed into event runs, TW, and/or TB. I'd love to see the Q'ira squads. They aren't over-powered and have some of the most fun and unique mechanics the game has put out. I'd like to see other Jedi featured (During the very brief Jawa/Droid meta, I countered with IGD lead). Variety is good. Variety is fun. Swapping out Bastilla for Chewie or Ezra is not variety. Running CLS, NS, whatever, and then immediately switching to Revan when you get to your spot is not variety.
    As for the one part of your post when you mention working on my other characters:
    1. Why? It's not like ramping up Carth Onasi is going to be viable in the arena
    2. Minus some of the very useless older characters (CUP, Sand People), all my characters are g12. All of my higher end toons have the left side of g12 complete, and slowly adding the right side.

    I get that Arena is only one small part of this game, and that everyone has different parts they enjoy more than others. But the sheer lack of variety and smallest semblance of balance is gone, and is now just another time of slogging through boring fight after boring fight. Personally, I don't get why people defend The Revan team. The only thing I can think of is that it's leveled the playing field for the "have-nots".
  • Ryzak620 wrote: »
    casper1jr wrote: »
    The arena will change again like it has many times. You're chasing ranks, that's why it's no fun to you. You can't say one character broke the arena and then 6 months later say someone else broke it and so on. In 6 to 12 months there will be a change just like 1 year ago, 2 years ago and 3 years ago.

    If you're stressed that much about top 50 then maybe it's time to take a step back and work on other toons that need attention. Its a fact that if you chase the ranks then you best be prepared for a battle. 50 people is not a lot of people, just wait for the 5 year mark when even more players start to join and rank up. Every year that goes by the game will get harder and harder as more context comes in.

    Pick and choose your battles wisely as the game will only get harder as more context shoes up. As more toons come even more off the wall squads will show up as well.

    Arena always changes, and I always adjust to it. I've always been an anti-meta person. When GK/Zarriss was meta, I used a Nihilus led squad. When it was Wiggs and Chaze, I used something else (don't remember, it's been so long). When it was Traya, I used Jango and other BH. All of my "anti-meta" squads were also able to hold on defense (to an extent).
    I'm not stressed about anything. It's simply not fun now. I have never cared about how far I would drop between play sessions. But, I enjoy different challenges as opposed to one. As I pointed out originally, I have never seen a time when 88% (89% as of this morning) of arena #1's are the same leader. That should be screaming to anyone with half of a brain. When Traya was the main lead, I don't believe I ever saw it more than 60% (which, IMO, is still too high). When it was RJT and CLS, it was around 50%.

    There are so many fun characters and squads that could be fun to try in different areas, but they are pigeonholed into event runs, TW, and/or TB. I'd love to see the Q'ira squads. They aren't over-powered and have some of the most fun and unique mechanics the game has put out. I'd like to see other Jedi featured (During the very brief Jawa/Droid meta, I countered with IGD lead). Variety is good. Variety is fun. Swapping out Bastilla for Chewie or Ezra is not variety. Running CLS, NS, whatever, and then immediately switching to Revan when you get to your spot is not variety.
    As for the one part of your post when you mention working on my other characters:
    1. Why? It's not like ramping up Carth Onasi is going to be viable in the arena
    2. Minus some of the very useless older characters (CUP, Sand People), all my characters are g12. All of my higher end toons have the left side of g12 complete, and slowly adding the right side.

    I get that Arena is only one small part of this game, and that everyone has different parts they enjoy more than others. But the sheer lack of variety and smallest semblance of balance is gone, and is now just another time of slogging through boring fight after boring fight. Personally, I don't get why people defend The Revan team. The only thing I can think of is that it's leveled the playing field for the "have-nots".

    Everything you just spoke of is 100% truth. I pride myself as an Anti-Meta guy myself. Metas have never been fun to use in any video game. This meta is pure cancer and is chewing away at the enjoyment I once had. I ran EP lead when Revan first arrived and did well against them. I started to build my NS team to use for the second release and am now using them in arena. I can beat any revan team in my shard with ns & Traya but the problem is is that you are targeted by other Revans because they either are weak or just bored from all the mirror matches. Having nothing but 1 team to fight in arena is extremely lame and I'm finding it harder and harder each day to care. And I know that once I'm no longer able to get my 500 daily crystals it will slow down my progression and I'll just eventually stop playing altogether. Which is bad for CG because I'm considered a "whale". I've thought about just quitting arena and just buying crystals to replace the ones I earned in arena but I don't want to give my money to a company anymore that doesn't care about their own game. And you were correct in saying the only people defending this cancer are those who couldn't compete before Revan. 100% truth and sometimes the truth hurts feelings. There should always be 4 or 5 teams competing in arena at the very least and Revans kit makes that near impossible. Hopefully it changes soon but I don't see how they could clean up the mess they've made at this point. I really hope I'm wrong though.
  • Ryzak620
    213 posts Member
    I've stopped giving money to this game for 7 months. I get by on spending 150 crystals a day (3 regular refreshes). This is after years of "whaling" because I enjoyed the game so much and enjoyed the high end of the game. I just truly believe that the developers don't care anymore.
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