Return Simming Slider to 1

Replies

  • Popoto
    32 posts Member
    This change is great, it's convinent .
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator

    NeKryXe wrote: »
    people defending the slider set at max doesn't have any reason at all, they are just trolls.

    > setting the slider at 1 will never do any damage to players who want it at max and click 1 by mistake.

    > setting the slider at max will destroy the game for players who need it at 1 and click max by mistake.

    this is a stupid and ridiculous downgrade that is ruining the game. i already made that mistake a few times since the stupid downgrade launched and i know a lot of people in my guild that had the same problem. QoL update is horrendous.

    YES.
    100%
    Hope the so-called unbiased Moderator reads this.

    We are on 2 different sides of an situation, you are just as biased as I am. We (the volunteer mod team) are all players and allowed to have our own opinions.
  • I think we can all agree that this issue is polarizing. People either love this change or hate it. I wish that they would compromise, if they keep it set to Max, allow users to change this setting on an individual basis within the game settings menu. Or vice versa. Clearly people are going to be unhappy if they change it back but people are already unhappy now so they only way to make both sides content is a compromise.
  • JyneRena wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that this issue is polarizing. People either love this change or hate it. I wish that they would compromise, if they keep it set to Max, allow users to change this setting on an individual basis within the game settings menu. Or vice versa. Clearly people are going to be unhappy if they change it back but people are already unhappy now so they only way to make both sides content is a compromise.

    What she said. I hate it too. Especially for mods. But there could be a choice in settings to set it however the player likes it. Easy fix.
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    3525 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Keep the slider, adjust the drop rates to work no matter how you set it like they do in slicing salvage.
  • The core if the problem is this: Players clicking sim either too fast or by muscle memory or not paying attention. In either case if the slider is set to 1 the player intending to sim more than once doesn’t lose anything. If the slider is set at max the player intending to sim once (or a number lower than the max) lose a lot of energy. It’s quite clear which option is more beneficial to the players.
  • DadKev
    314 posts Member
    I sim max much more than min. This is a great change. Thank you!
  • Yep I’ve already wasted energy trying to sim for gears. Easily the worst update since release. Fix it CG. @CG_SBCrumb
  • maraJade789
    284 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Yep I’ve already wasted energy trying to sim for gears. Easily the worst update since release. Fix it CG. @CG_SBCrumb

    Well said. Just make a QOL update that everyone wants. Or make a default so guys can choose 1 or max sims as start, so don’t have slider issues. SIM-ple Fix.
  • cfgd50do5js1.png

    What majority???
  • Further... am I the one thinking that drop rate is not the same when you sim 2-3x or 5 or more x?
    You can get 2/2 or 3/3 a significant number of times, but if I accidentally sim 8x the only outcome I have are: zero (the most, most frequent!!), 1 or 2....
    In other words, after more than 3 years in this game, I feel that simming 2-3x guarantees a better drop rate....

    (please don't jump here with the usual "what's your sample size?" and similar... this is not a randomized trial, it's just my point of view)
  • 100%
  • It's years of muscle memory killing me on my early morning grinds. Energy wasted where I didn't mean to max out, then I requested a "grey" piece because things are all in different places. Was a bit unexpected, but once my thumbs and morning brain are retrained I should be okay. Six to one, half dozen to the other.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Further... am I the one thinking that drop rate is not the same when you sim 2-3x or 5 or more x?
    You can get 2/2 or 3/3 a significant number of times, but if I accidentally sim 8x the only outcome I have are: zero (the most, most frequent!!), 1 or 2....
    In other words, after more than 3 years in this game, I feel that simming 2-3x guarantees a better drop rate....

    (please don't jump here with the usual "what's your sample size?" and similar... this is not a randomized trial, it's just my point of view)

    No many people think it, the issue is that it is not true.

    You can test this with a coin. A simple test anyone can do.

    Track flips of a coin in small samples (say sets of 10), the dope rate of a heads or a tails is 50%, but in each sample you will see many different results and some of them wildly different. Then take all those samples and combine them and the true drop rate will start to show.(depending on your total number of flips)

    The other explanation about why people think this is confirmation bias. People will tend to remember the best or worst and not the middle, depending on thier mindset and other factors. Get a 2/2 and a 3/3 in the same set of energy and you will remember that for weeks, but the 1/3 (the proven average) will be forgotten by the next click. Some also tend to remember more the 0/any number of attempts too. This is especially true when it's a larger number of 0 over 8,10,15,.... but wont remember the 4/8 of other drops that are well above the proven average.

    But as always, I suggest you track your data for yourself and come to your own conclusion based on the data. Math doesnt lie, it doesn't play games, it just is. Data collected correctly and unbiased can be a powerful tool.
  • Another money grab for anyone who's distracted and just wanted to simulate less than max...

    This option enforce into all users is just an awful UX and lazy development.
    They didn't wanted to make it configurable by each user because its easier to enforce the option rather than develop some screen where anyone can input its default value or leave it blank for max.

    Just lazy and easy money.
    You want to simulate just 3?... oops... you just did 15... pay for more energy please.
  • Malahmen
    2 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Gannon wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Doesnt it only happen the first time then it stays at whatever you set it?
    Yes, if you select an amount it'll stay that way till you change it or leave the screen.

    I can assure that this is not always the case. And even though, its still a crappy decision.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Malahmen wrote: »
    Another money grab for anyone who's distracted and just wanted to simulate less than max...

    Anyone who wanted to sim less than max, but not 1, is unaffected by this change. They would have to use the slider no matter what.

    The affected group are the ones who only sim 1, and between muscle memory and distraction are wasting more energy than they wanted to.

    Surprisingly enough not everything is a money grab, nor meant to be bad in any way.

    They decided to make a chnage based on whatever reasoning they have that would allow some percentage of the player base to have less clicks to do what they normally do.
  • I question the logic of the change. With all the things we have asked for, for quite sometime, was this on anyone's list? Doubtful. Remove all mods at once, upgrade gear pieces all at once, etc.. these were asked for. So of course They changed the sliders. O.o?
  • Gifafi
    6017 posts Member
    It’s amazing that of all the dumb timesuck things like having to tap multiple times (ex. tap 5 times to do a challenge (not even talking about the fact we can’t just sim them all at once!)), devs decide to “help” us out by making it so we can “save” the time of one finger slide.

    I’d love to hear even a semi-logical explanation for why this change was needed or why it was made.
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Back when they first introduced the multi-sim, we tested it in my old guild. Each of us in the experiment had to run a specific number of Sims for a 7 day week. I was the "unlucky" one who had to sim one at a time, and I was not happy about it.

    At the end of the week, I had more shards and gear than the others. At least 2 more drops per energy run on avg. I've simmed one at a time since.

    That was a long time ago, but we tested the numbers ourselves, and if you don't believe it, test it yourself for a 7 day week. This is not a hard experiment to run. Keep a spreadsheet. Post the results and prove your theory that is the same.

    It's not the same. But only you can convince yourself. None of the rest of us can change your mind as you don't believe us. Try it. Put your money where your mouth is :)

    I'll trust your results, if you post the spreadsheets.
  • Rath_Tarr
    4944 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Malahmen wrote: »
    Another money grab for anyone who's distracted and just wanted to simulate less than max...

    Anyone who wanted to sim less than max, but not 1, is unaffected by this change. They would have to use the slider no matter what.

    The affected group are the ones who only sim 1, and between muscle memory and distraction are wasting more energy than they wanted to.

    Surprisingly enough not everything is a money grab, nor meant to be bad in any way.

    They decided to make a chnage based on whatever reasoning they have that would allow some percentage of the player base to have less clicks to do what they normally do.
    Coin flips are independent, random events.

    A Random Number Generator is not truly random. It repeatedly performs a set of mathematical operations on the previous result to create a sequence of values which kinda sorta look random.

    When you send a multi-sim request you get a sequence of linked pseudo-random events.

    When you send single requests, the events are still pseudo-random but they are no longer directly linked so you get closer to the coin flip analogy.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    I would like all my characters to be 7*.

    And 2 million crystals.

    And Darth Jar Jar.

    And an ice cream cone.




    With a cherry on top.

    So why haven’t you given me these things CG, why do you neglect me so?
  • Kirth
    50 posts Member
    Been a victim of this multiple times. It either needs to be changed back or personalised
  • Anrath
    216 posts Member
    Hate that it’s set to max.

    This is not smart at all.

    Or QOL.

    Please give us a [Max,1] toggle button in settings so we can choose what we want for the SIM Slider.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Malahmen wrote: »
    Another money grab for anyone who's distracted and just wanted to simulate less than max...

    Anyone who wanted to sim less than max, but not 1, is unaffected by this change. They would have to use the slider no matter what.

    The affected group are the ones who only sim 1, and between muscle memory and distraction are wasting more energy than they wanted to.

    Surprisingly enough not everything is a money grab, nor meant to be bad in any way.

    They decided to make a chnage based on whatever reasoning they have that would allow some percentage of the player base to have less clicks to do what they normally do.
    Coin flips are independent, random events.

    A Random Number Generator is not truly random. It repeatedly performs a set of mathematical operations on the previous result to create a sequence of values which kinda sorta look random.

    When you send a multi-sim request you get a sequence of linked pseudo-random events.

    When you send single requests, the events are still pseudo-random but they are no longer directly linked so you get closer to the coin flip analogy.

    That is not true, the next operation has no link to the previous answer. Statistics dont have a "memory ".

    RNG systems can work from random sets, but that is a different conversation, and yes they can be completely random.

    Also, if a system is built to have a certain average, you cant "game it", in the end it works out to that average, that's how it works.
  • I like it in some cases, I accidentally made me do alot more battles looking for a green gear piece tho, I wanted to do 1 and I did 13 by accident
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Malahmen wrote: »
    Another money grab for anyone who's distracted and just wanted to simulate less than max...

    Anyone who wanted to sim less than max, but not 1, is unaffected by this change. They would have to use the slider no matter what.

    The affected group are the ones who only sim 1, and between muscle memory and distraction are wasting more energy than they wanted to.

    Surprisingly enough not everything is a money grab, nor meant to be bad in any way.

    They decided to make a chnage based on whatever reasoning they have that would allow some percentage of the player base to have less clicks to do what they normally do.
    Coin flips are independent, random events.

    A Random Number Generator is not truly random. It repeatedly performs a set of mathematical operations on the previous result to create a sequence of values which kinda sorta look random.

    When you send a multi-sim request you get a sequence of linked pseudo-random events.

    When you send single requests, the events are still pseudo-random but they are no longer directly linked so you get closer to the coin flip analogy.

    That is not true, the next operation has no link to the previous answer. Statistics dont have a "memory ".

    RNG systems can work from random sets, but that is a different conversation, and yes they can be completely random.

    Also, if a system is built to have a certain average, you cant "game it", in the end it works out to that average, that's how it works.

    Although i agree that in the long run the short sims are no better/worse, they are right about how number generators on compuyers work, at least crappy ones. They are seeded by something, and often that something is related to the previous result. Better ones are seeded by something closer to causing a random result, like cpu clock.

    The crappy ones are the ones where you load a game do a, get result z, do b get result x. Reload the game do the steps in the same order and get the same results. Even if a result z has a .001% chance of happening you will always get that result in your save game if you do step a first. Kind of like how in gw when it was hard if you retreated and repeated the exact sequence of events you got the EXACT same result, so you had to change your attacks, targets, or even character positons in order to get a different result.
  • Before you would never make an error when it was set to 1, now it's easier to accidentally choose something you didn't want. It does save time if you want to max sim, but honestly it's not that much time saved and the advantage gained over that doesn't eclipse simming 8 when you meant 1. The problem it creates is bigger than the small convenience it provides and it should be changed back.
  • Anrath wrote: »
    Hate that it’s set to max.

    This is not smart at all.

    Or QOL.

    Please give us a [Max,1] toggle button in settings so we can choose what we want for the SIM Slider.

    100%, this is the best option for both sides,

    once again if the Moderator is reading this and representing the community fairly and evenly,

    he'll respond and offer this suggestion to the Devs, who make this game we love and hate (@ the moment lol).
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