Upcoming Character Changes

CG_SBCrumb wrote: »

Hi Holotable Heroes,

I wanted to clarify a few things around the rework of HK-47 and the changes coming to Fallen Bastila Shan.

In the case of HK - he will receiving a rework in order to synergize with Darth Revan, but his current leader ability is very powerful and, left as is, could create some game-breaking teams with just a little synergy. This is primarily due to how early in the game’s lifecycle his kit was developed and didn’t account for all the fun and weird mechanics that we would go on to add to the game.

Currently, his Leader ability limits the space we have to design new characters or improve existing ones that would synergize with HK-47. That leaves us with 2 choices:
Leave him as is and build characters that wouldn’t interact with HK-47 - which would leave an awesome fan favorite to languish for eternity
Rework his current leader ability along with the rest of his kit
We think number 2 is the best option and the changes to his abilities are significant enough that we will be reseting and returning all the ability materials that were used on HK‌-47’s Leader ability.

When it comes to reworks, generally we try to improve older characters and revitalize usefulness but it’s not as simple improving a few stats. Often, we have to rethink how this character fits into a game that has changed significantly. In most cases we believe we have succeeded in making these improvements (Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader).

So when, in our judgment, we weren’t able to improve or have changed the core identity of a character with a rework, our intention is to offer some kind of makegood. This may come in the form of a zeta refund (Old Daka) or ability refund (HK-47), or something entirely different. We will try to communicate these intentions at the time of the rework’s announcement so you can plan accordingly.

The changes to Bastila Shan (Fallen) are fairly minor in comparison to HK-47, but are also intended to improve her synergy in a Darth Revan team. Bastila will have a new unique and we are adding the new “Fear” debuff to one of her Special abilities. These minor changes were made to align her with Darth Revan’s release, so they don’t actually constitute a “rework” in the traditional sense, but rather highlight the bond between these two characters by introducing more synergies.

We can’t talk about reworks and not mention what’s happening with zFinn. We are still investigating the rework to zFinn’s leader ability to prevent infinite loops. We had shared a possible solution previously, but while the changes TopHat discussed prevented infinite loops in Phase 3, in further testing we realized we inadvertently added a new trivializing loop to Phase 1, so we are taking another pass at solving this interaction. We apologize that this fix is taking longer than expected but we are hoping to have an update that we can share soon.
CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
I didn't mention any compensation specifically for zFinn because we found additional issues. We will re-evaluate his refund status once we know how we intend to fix him.

In short, it's not off the table but we will decide once we know the scope of the changes.

I would like to start by acknowledging that this is great communication and that we must be many to be pleased and relieved by it (not necessarily the content but the wording and level of details). It's a great shift from previous misfires and long silences. Thank you.

________________

The content

#1 HK's rework
First off, I am glad to see that you now acknowledge it is more appropriate to make a refund of mats when a character ability is being denatured by a rework/fix.

Then, while I understand his ability could render difficult to make consequent kit releases loopfree, I would rather like to see limitations applied to current abilities instead of complete overhauls. The game has greatly evolved and we learned throughout the years how to use these characters and a change as drastic as the one proposed with Finn eliminate the first character and brings a completely new one. In these situations, I believe a limitation could've been better than a complete overhaul. For example, we could've limited the TM gains from zFinn leadership to damage caused by resistance allies only.

#2 Badstilla shan improvements
Looking forward to this kit release and new mechanics in anticipation of Darth Revan. Very excited about it.

#3 zFinn rework and HSTR
While it's good to have news about the upcoming rework/fix we've been waiting for regarding zFinn, I believe that the real issue here lies in Traya's mechanics in the sith raid. You can't be serious on opting to rework so many characters instead of fixing this phase of the raid. On another level, this raid a been out for a while now and it becomes normal that new, more powerful characters help to defeat it more quickly. We loop the Rancor and the HAAT for a while now, why a single phase of HSTR would not be okay?

On a final note, I strongly believe that when actual content is being modified (not add-ons like the extra unique you described for Badstilla but reworks/fixes) it would be appreciated that a refund be issued for the characters impacted by it. It was done previously with other fix and we expect that you keep the same thinking in the future. It's always deceiving to see what you purchased turning to be something completely different.

Replies

  • This is one of the most logical and well constructed posts I’ve seen. Bravo. Also I agree with the major points. Hopefully CG will accept the advice.
  • Anything that makes the Sith Raid faster should be left alone. Thoroughly despise the raid.
    Where are the Stun Guns?
  • Agree with everything.
  • Great points and communicated in a very logical and non-emotional way
  • So Hk-47's simple leader ability is too OP, but Revan isnt???
  • Leave him as is and build characters that wouldn’t interact with HK-47 - which would leave an awesome fan favorite to languish for eternity


    Found that quite amusing. What about all the other fan favourites? I guess there’s a mass of reworks on the way.
    Where are the Stun Guns?
  • Yea i would rather see hk get reworked and get better rework from current droids and better kits then them all be unable to crit to not work with hk
  • Yea i would rather see hk get reworked and get better rework from current droids and better kits then them all be unable to crit to not work with hk
    I would love that too, except we all know that they are not going to rework any of the current droids, so changing HK’s lead is not going to matter.
  • Can see ig 86 and some older droids getting a rework and adding in more or a different version of the droids could also happen
  • Yea i would rather see hk get reworked and get better rework from current droids and better kits then them all be unable to crit to not work with hk

    I also think this is the best solution. I'm sure a ton of people will cry bloody murder, but for the long-term health of droids this will open up a lot more opportunities (rather than just tagging "can't critically hit" onto every cool new droid).
  • I am very disappointed to hear that the development team is reworking HK's leadership ability. It is one of the only useful droid leadership abilities in the game and to change it will completely destroy the possibility of making droid teams.

    Why can't the team just change other aspects of HK and build upon him like they did with Emperor Palpatine? Seriously changing the one of the only real viable droid leaders in the game impacts more than just HK but it lessens the value of the other droids that I've worked on. Poor move to change this leadership and a slap in the face to those of us who like droids (on top of the slap in the face we got with the joke of a General Grievous rework).
  • Jarvind
    3920 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Ninjah9 wrote: »
    #3 zFinn rework and HSTR
    While it's good to have news about the upcoming rework/fix we've been waiting for regarding zFinn, I believe that the real issue here lies in Traya's mechanics in the sith raid. You can't be serious on opting to rework so many characters instead of fixing this phase of the raid. On another level, this raid a been out for a while now and it becomes normal that new, more powerful characters help to defeat it more quickly. We loop the Rancor and the HAAT for a while now, why a single phase of HSTR would not be okay?

    I'll say it every time:

    1) Traya already has high base tenacity, and two sources of stacking tenacity. What else are they going to add to her to prevent these loops from working? "Anytime anything happens, Traya gains ONE MEEEEEEELLION (Dr. Evil pinky gesture) TENACITY and also you uh, can't ever gain bonus turn meter, and, GOD GUYS JUST STOP MAKING LOOP TEAMS JEEZ."

    2) Only tweaking Traya herself means that any future boss with a Topple mechanic would be vulnerable to the same loop teams, and would therefore need all the same stupid "just-to-prevent-loops" mechanics bolted on. I think most can probably agree that stacking tenacity is a lame gimmick that sucks a lot of fun out of the raid, so I personally would prefer they come up with another way to devalue debuffs against bosses than just "lol it no work." We already have precedent for certain abilities working differently against Boss enemies (C3P0, Thrawn, any %health attack), so why not just do the same with the more common debuffs?

    In any case, while the delays on the Finn rework are annoying, I'm OK with it knowing that it's because they are actually testing stuff instead of just using us as unwitting beta testers.
    Ninjah9 wrote: »
    So Hk-47's simple leader ability is too OP, but Revan isnt???

    I interpreted it to mean that HK's current lead, combined with either something else in his new kit or maybe something in Darth Revan's, was potentially OP.

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  • I think the devs are kinda chasing their tails to produce new material to sell. They’ve seen how much money fools will throw at them for dominant meta leads, so that will be their approach going forward, and anything that could mitigate that will be crushed (I mean reworked to be “better”)
    I am the jedi dog battle droid C-3PO could not kill.
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
    Agreed with op on finn.

    Problem is not finn or 3po, its traya phase 3. Just fix that
  • I couldn't care less whether Darth Revan is "meta." I threw money at him because he is Darth Revan.
  • Jarvind wrote: »
    Ninjah9 wrote: »
    #3 zFinn rework and HSTR
    While it's good to have news about the upcoming rework/fix we've been waiting for regarding zFinn, I believe that the real issue here lies in Traya's mechanics in the sith raid. You can't be serious on opting to rework so many characters instead of fixing this phase of the raid. On another level, this raid a been out for a while now and it becomes normal that new, more powerful characters help to defeat it more quickly. We loop the Rancor and the HAAT for a while now, why a single phase of HSTR would not be okay?

    I'll say it every time:

    1) Traya already has high base tenacity, and two sources of stacking tenacity. What else are they going to add to her to prevent these loops from working? "Anytime anything happens, Traya gains ONE MEEEEEEELLION (Dr. Evil pinky gesture) TENACITY and also you uh, can't ever gain bonus turn meter, and, GOD GUYS JUST STOP MAKING LOOP TEAMS JEEZ."

    2) Only tweaking Traya herself means that any future boss with a Topple mechanic would be vulnerable to the same loop teams, and would therefore need all the same stupid "just-to-prevent-loops" mechanics bolted on. I think most can probably agree that stacking tenacity is a lame gimmick that sucks a lot of fun out of the raid, so I personally would prefer they come up with another way to devalue debuffs against bosses than just "lol it no work." We already have precedent for certain abilities working differently against Boss enemies (C3P0, Thrawn, any %health attack), so why not just do the same with the more common debuffs?

    In any case, while the delays on the Finn rework are annoying, I'm OK with it knowing that it's because they are actually testing stuff instead of just using us as unwitting beta testers.
    Ninjah9 wrote: »
    So Hk-47's simple leader ability is too OP, but Revan isnt???

    I interpreted it to mean that HK's current lead, combined with either something else in his new kit or maybe something in Darth Revan's, was potentially OP.
    I interpreted it as that there was nothing broken or anything that would break it in the foreseeable future, but HK has the potential to create a loop given droids with the right kits, and they are deciding to eliminate a lead that could be a potential loop in the future while they are reworking HK for Darth revan.
  • But zfinn was stopping new resistance toons that could do expose cause of his lead certain leads limit the kits the characters could get because they could get out of hand
  • Something currently seems off about Bastila Fallen. All things considered she seems kind of weak. Hopefully the rework will straighten things out.

    Having one round of damage immunity for Bastila Fallen and the leader to start battles would be pretty awesome. The one round of foresight is kind of pointless for a zeta skill.
  • Something currently seems off about Bastila Fallen. All things considered she seems kind of weak. Hopefully the rework will straighten things out.

    Having one round of damage immunity for Bastila Fallen and the leader to start battles would be pretty awesome. The one round of foresight is kind of pointless for a zeta skill.

    Yea her zeta seems like it was a place holder or a partial zeta till darth revan came out
  • Kylo under KRU had a TM problem as well: his AOE got reworked. I don't see KRU being massively reworked as a result...
  • Something currently seems off about Bastila Fallen. All things considered she seems kind of weak. Hopefully the rework will straighten things out.

    Having one round of damage immunity for Bastila Fallen and the leader to start battles would be pretty awesome. The one round of foresight is kind of pointless for a zeta skill.

    Exactly. EmoBastila Zeta is one of the worst and useless in game...
  • ShaggyB wrote: »
    Agreed with op on finn.

    Problem is not finn or 3po, its traya phase 3. Just fix that

    It’s the whole raid. It’s just boring. Many of my guild mates just click auto and forget about it.

    Where are the Stun Guns?
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