GA encouragement

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Okay so i see a lot of people complaining about being outmatched by their opponent in GA whether it’s unbalanced GP or more/less g12s. Well I've experienced both situations and still managed to win so its possible to beat someone better equipped than you! Ive even beat people with revan and i dont have revan. GA isnt just about raw numbers. You have to strategize and also use mods properly. When you see someone thats more powerful than you dont give up and/or not set defense or something. Try your best and you may be able to pull an unexpected win!

My opponent this time:
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Me: xfazgo485bvq.png
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Replies

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Just because you might, maybe have the potential to win doesn’t change the point that it’s often dramatically unfair, especially for a game mode that was advertised as the epitome of PvP competition in this game.

    Even and fair are not the same thing. The matches may not be even, but as long as we all battle for the same prizes, it's only fair to let players with stronger rosters benefit from their advantage.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Just because you might, maybe have the potential to win doesn’t change the point that it’s often dramatically unfair, especially for a game mode that was advertised as the epitome of PvP competition in this game.

    Even and fair are not the same thing. The matches may not be even, but as long as we all battle for the same prizes, it's only fair to let players with stronger rosters benefit from their advantage.

    Wth is your definition of fair?

    @Bubblechomp I think the better question is, what is yours?

    Share a swgoh.gg profile, and that of your opponents and I'm sure you'll get some advice on how to play it.
  • Or just post a meme and avoid the topic - that's cool too.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Waqui wrote: »
    Just because you might, maybe have the potential to win doesn’t change the point that it’s often dramatically unfair, especially for a game mode that was advertised as the epitome of PvP competition in this game.

    Even and fair are not the same thing. The matches may not be even, but as long as we all battle for the same prizes, it's only fair to let players with stronger rosters benefit from their advantage.

    Wth is your definition of fair?

    My definition:
    When everybody is fighting for the same prizes (disregarding the strength of their rosters and previous performance) it's fair to mix players who have stronger rosters with players who have weaker rosters of approximately the same GP.

    Giving players with weaker rosters easier matches and easier access to top rewards would be unfair to players with stronger rosters. Why should players with stronger rosters have stronger opponents and a harder access to top rank rewards?
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    3ci0pih9w417.png

    Guildmate of mine. His opponent has 20 fewer zetas and 21 fewer G11/12 teams. Same GP. My guildmate doesn’t deserve unjust advantage because CG has a lazy, garbage matchmaking algorithm in place.

    As long as we all fight for the same rewards it's not an 'unjust advantage'. One player built a stronger roster than the other. That's all.
  • What's unjust about his advantage? Better question - as someone with an inferior GA roster, are you willing to take lesser rewards for a more competitive match-up? Same question, put differently, should your guild mate be punished for having a more efficiently built roster?

    GA has been out for three months - plenty of time to make changes to the way you're developing your roster if that's what you want to do. I'm assuming you're Bubblechomp Rex in-game, and I understand why you think you're being aggrieved somehow. I have a 2.3 M GP account that would probably beat your 4.2 M GP account in this format (using a 5 squad setup). It has an ****, you don't. You can't clear the ship zone. It would clear yours. There's a chance it would beat you on points in squad based on your mods and depending on what you placed for offense and defense.

    Part of me gets that it's ludicrous that a 1.9M GP differential is meaningless. But, what's the answer then, match on what? And why? So people that didn't focus their rosters get the same rewards as people that did?

    I'm not asking rhetorically. I really want to understand what's driving the "lazy garbage matchmaking" crowd and what a viable matchmaking alternative looks like to them - outside of "one I can win"

  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    3ci0pih9w417.png

    Guildmate of mine. His opponent has 20 fewer zetas and 21 fewer G11/12 teams. Same GP. My guildmate doesn’t deserve unjust advantage because CG has a lazy, garbage matchmaking algorithm in place.

    As long as we all fight for the same rewards it's not an 'unjust advantage'. One player built a stronger roster than the other. That's all.

    Your logic makes zero sense. The prize should be a reward for overcoming equally challenging opponents—how does it help the spirit of competition when one player can laughably stomp all over another? And let me remind you that CG sold the idea of Grand Arena as being pure competition, not muddied with Shard Chats or reliance from guild mates. It’s not fun for the player stomping nor being stomped on because both players, if they’re being honest, know that the match is a joke.

    Define "equally challenging" please.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    3ci0pih9w417.png

    Guildmate of mine. His opponent has 20 fewer zetas and 21 fewer G11/12 teams. Same GP. My guildmate doesn’t deserve unjust advantage because CG has a lazy, garbage matchmaking algorithm in place.

    As long as we all fight for the same rewards it's not an 'unjust advantage'. One player built a stronger roster than the other. That's all.

    Your logic makes zero sense. The prize should be a reward for overcoming equally challenging opponents—how does it help the spirit of competition when one player can laughably stomp all over another? And let me remind you that CG sold the idea of Grand Arena as being pure competition, not muddied with Shard Chats or reliance from guild mates. It’s not fun for the player stomping nor being stomped on because both players, if they’re being honest, know that the match is a joke.

    Define "equally challenging" please.

    "One I can beat with my roster - not that 2.3M GP guy though...:"
  • To legitimately be “equally challenging,” both players would need to have roughly equal zetas, gear 11 & 12 characters, arena ranks, mods, teams, legendary characters, knowledge of the game, and desire to compete in grand arena. That’s just not going to happen. Even the areas I mentioned that the developers can match are likely too much for their servers to compute in a reasonably short period. And so instead they match by power, which may be a bit simplistic compared to all the factors that it would take to ensure “fairness” or “equality”, but does a generally good job of giving fairly competitive matches. But players in the top 50 of either arena (or both) and paying players are usually going to do better in grand arena as well.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Same amount of G11/G12, same amount of zetas; may the superior skilled player win. Let player choice in who they geared and who they zetaed determine the outcome, but it should be an even playing field. GP does not indicate roster quality; GP should be completely irrelevant.

    That's not an even playing field though, atleast not according to some of the players complaining about matchmaking.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • fletchmars
    156 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Oof i meant for this to be encouraging but it looks like it went in the wrong direction.
    Edit: spelling
  • Same amount of G11/G12, same amount of zetas; may the superior skilled player win.

    What are you defining as "skill" here? Strategy for offensive and defensive squad selections? Combat execution? Also, how would the algorithm work for lower GP players without G11 or G12 toons? Would it be a sliding scale based on...I dunno...GP maybe?
    Let player choice in who they geared and who they zetaed determine the outcome, but it should be an even playing field.

    Hey, we agree on something! It already does - it just also adds "who they starred", cuz that's what GP is...
    GP does not indicate roster quality;

    Correct, as you already pointed out with your post about Lobot and Ungaught. It's the only metric of overall roster development and, as such, is useful for matchmaking without "picking a winner."

    You're essentially advocating the same type of matching algorithm, just tilting it in your favor by trying to match on your low number of G12s and high number of G11s while excluding less useful toons that are G10 and under. You're also excluding the value of omegas, which can make a big difference in the utility of newer toons for certain skills (say a cooldown reduction vs. a simple damage increase - not all omegas are created equally).

    I would be fine with this proposal, provided they adjusted the prize tiers accordingly based on the amount of "enrolled GP" used as a basis for matchmaking. If I'm facing harder competition than the people I've been facing (you know, my peers that have roughly devoted the same amount of resources to building their roster, based on GP of course) then I would expect better rewards for beating better competition.

    That's how tournaments work, right? The better the competition, the better the reward? Or is the intent to turn GA into a bigger participation trophy than it already is.
  • Rath_Tarr
    4944 posts Member
    fletchmars wrote: »
    Oof i meant for this to be encouraging but it looks like it went in the wrong direction.
    Edit: spelling
    It's a contentious subject.
  • Kai_Mulai wrote: »
    To legitimately be “equally challenging,” both players would need to have roughly equal zetas, gear 11 & 12 characters, arena ranks, mods, teams, legendary characters, knowledge of the game, and desire to compete in grand arena. That’s just not going to happen. Even the areas I mentioned that the developers can match are likely too much for their servers to compute in a reasonably short period. And so instead they match by power, which may be a bit simplistic compared to all the factors that it would take to ensure “fairness” or “equality”, but does a generally good job of giving fairly competitive matches. But players in the top 50 of either arena (or both) and paying players are usually going to do better in grand arena as well.

    DSR, a little Discord bot, can do it in seconds. 🤫

    DSR bot can read and report these factors. That’s much simpler. The game currently takes 5 minutes to match a few million players on one factor (galactic power). Complexity and time increase for each additional factor. If the game takes 5 minutes to match 1 factor, imagine how long it would take to match 4 factors or more. Keep in mind the time increase would be exponential for each additional factor. And considering people would still cmplain and there are additional factors such as who actually wants to try in grand arena and who doesn’t care, the developers probably thought the current strategy was the best one to balance server load and simplicity with reasonably balanced matchups.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    3ci0pih9w417.png

    Guildmate of mine. His opponent has 20 fewer zetas and 21 fewer G11/12 teams. Same GP. My guildmate doesn’t deserve unjust advantage because CG has a lazy, garbage matchmaking algorithm in place.

    As long as we all fight for the same rewards it's not an 'unjust advantage'. One player built a stronger roster than the other. That's all.

    Your logic makes zero sense. The prize should be a reward for overcoming equally challenging opponents—how does it help the spirit of competition when one player can laughably stomp all over another?

    How does it help the spirit of competition, that players with weaker rosters have easier access to rewards than players with stronger rosters? Where's the incentive to build a strong roster? Where's the incentive to improve your roster?
    And let me remind you that CG sold the idea of Grand Arena as being pure competition, not muddied with Shard Chats or reliance from guild mates. It’s not fun for the player stomping nor being stomped on because both players, if they’re being honest, know that the match is a joke.

    And preparing for the GA by building a strong roster is part of that competition. If you show up unprepaired, you get stomped.
    If DSR Bot can breakdown both players’ rosters to the extent that it can, I’d hope CG with all their Revanue could do the same.

    Of course they can. But do you really want 3 mirror-matches every GA? Where's the fun in that?
    But that’s probably why Disney’s slapping Star Wars out of EA’s incompetent, greedy, corporate hands. And those enabling and or encouraging them and their low quality product like monkeys on their teet can get f’d.

    Any game company aims to make a profit. Some excel - like CG in the case of SW GoH. Your entertainment is simply a means to create profit.

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Same amount of G11/G12, same amount of zetas; may the superior skilled player win.

    Building a strong roster is a skill too.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Kai_Mulai wrote: »
    To legitimately be “equally challenging,” both players would need to have roughly equal zetas, gear 11 & 12 characters, arena ranks, mods, teams, legendary characters, knowledge of the game, and desire to compete in grand arena. That’s just not going to happen. Even the areas I mentioned that the developers can match are likely too much for their servers to compute in a reasonably short period. And so instead they match by power, which may be a bit simplistic compared to all the factors that it would take to ensure “fairness” or “equality”, but does a generally good job of giving fairly competitive matches. But players in the top 50 of either arena (or both) and paying players are usually going to do better in grand arena as well.

    DSR, a little Discord bot, can do it in seconds. 🤫

    That's comparing two accounts only. How many players join each GA? And add the time for matching as well.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Same amount of G11/G12, same amount of zetas; may the superior skilled player win.

    What are you defining as "skill" here? Strategy for offensive and defensive squad selections? Combat execution? Also, how would the algorithm work for lower GP players without G11 or G12 toons? Would it be a sliding scale based on...I dunno...GP maybe?
    Let player choice in who they geared and who they zetaed determine the outcome, but it should be an even playing field.

    Hey, we agree on something! It already does - it just also adds "who they starred", cuz that's what GP is...
    GP does not indicate roster quality;

    Correct, as you already pointed out with your post about Lobot and Ungaught. It's the only metric of overall roster development and, as such, is useful for matchmaking without "picking a winner."

    You're essentially advocating the same type of matching algorithm, just tilting it in your favor by trying to match on your low number of G12s and high number of G11s while excluding less useful toons that are G10 and under. You're also excluding the value of omegas, which can make a big difference in the utility of newer toons for certain skills (say a cooldown reduction vs. a simple damage increase - not all omegas are created equally).

    I would be fine with this proposal, provided they adjusted the prize tiers accordingly based on the amount of "enrolled GP" used as a basis for matchmaking. If I'm facing harder competition than the people I've been facing (you know, my peers that have roughly devoted the same amount of resources to building their roster, based on GP of course) then I would expect better rewards for beating better competition.

    That's how tournaments work, right? The better the competition, the better the reward? Or is the intent to turn GA into a bigger participation trophy than it already is.

    Again, this is not about me. Perhaps you glossed over the example I posted above where my friend’s opponent has 20 LESS G11/12’s, and 20 LESS zetas. That’s not fair, that’s a joke.

    As long as we all compete for the same rewards, I see nothing unfair in matching 8 players of same GP but different roster strength. Again:

    Even match-ups and fair match-ups are two different things.
  • Kai_Mulai wrote: »
    Kai_Mulai wrote: »
    To legitimately be “equally challenging,” both players would need to have roughly equal zetas, gear 11 & 12 characters, arena ranks, mods, teams, legendary characters, knowledge of the game, and desire to compete in grand arena. That’s just not going to happen. Even the areas I mentioned that the developers can match are likely too much for their servers to compute in a reasonably short period. And so instead they match by power, which may be a bit simplistic compared to all the factors that it would take to ensure “fairness” or “equality”, but does a generally good job of giving fairly competitive matches. But players in the top 50 of either arena (or both) and paying players are usually going to do better in grand arena as well.

    DSR, a little Discord bot, can do it in seconds. 🤫

    DSR bot can read and report these factors. That’s much simpler. The game currently takes 5 minutes to match a few million players on one factor (galactic power). Complexity and time increase for each additional factor. If the game takes 5 minutes to match 1 factor, imagine how long it would take to match 4 factors or more. Keep in mind the time increase would be exponential for each additional factor. And considering people would still cmplain and there are additional factors such as who actually wants to try in grand arena and who doesn’t care, the developers probably thought the current strategy was the best one to balance server load and simplicity with reasonably balanced matchups.

    So your argument for a weeklong event that takes about 15 minutes in a 24 hour span is that it'd be too time consuming to look into more evenly graded rosters at matchmaking?!?!?
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