The Force Awakens *SPOILERS-Do not read if you haven't seen the movie*

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  • woodchuck wrote: »
    Overall, i enjoyed watching TFA.

    - i HATE the casting of Adam Driver for this. for me, this was the worst part of TFA. probably mostly because I don't know Adam Driver at all except, by pure coincidence, i watched "While We're Young" 2 weeks before i watched TFA where he played a goofy hippie character. his look, his voice (yes, voice matters!!! he sounds like a wimp), and his acting demeanor (emotionless, dead pan intonation) is just about the worst casting choice possible for a character that is supposed to be imposing and feared. probably the reason why ppl got a "WT-F/really?" (and/or laughing becoz he is dorky looking) moment when he unmasked in the movie.

    - lack of presence and fear for "the dark side"... Vadar was scary, Maul was scary.... Kylo was a joke (due to BOTH the casting AND the abysmal fighting choreography). something is seriously out of whack when Kylo was shown to be able to stop a phaser blast earlier in the movie, yet later during his lightsaber fight with Finn/Rey, he shows no form, control, refinement, or expertise as he's basically heaving and hurling his lightsaber around. (versus a lightsaber "newbie" that never used a lightsaber before no less)

    Although, I do agree on a lot of what you said, I still really like Kylo. I hate myself for saying this, but apart of me likes him even more than Vader. I feel like Kylo was everything Vader wasn't. I have to strongly degree with Kylo not being intimidating. Throughout the original trilogy we see Vader cool, calm, collective. Sure, we see him force choke some people and that's awesome. But never have we seen him lash out from pure anger. I love the anger displayed by Kylo Ren in two scenes in the movies. We all know anger fuels the dark side and lets be honest, when has Vader showed that much frustration and anger to the point where he wants to destroy everything like that? Kylo Ren was unbalanced and visibly powerful and that's pretty scary, IMO. To me, Vader was a obedient puppet that knew his limitations and restrictions and never step foot outside those boundaries.

    The only time Vader really shows uncontrollable anger is in episode III, when he finds out that padme has died. And frankly, that scene was pretty pathetic, imo. That was more like a sadden cry rather than boiling anger.

    And then the beating on his wounded chest during the Ren and Rey fight was just the cherry on top for me. Using physical pain to fuel the dark side. Classic, I loved it.

    Not to mention Kylo did the one thing Vader could never do... Kill his family.

    The only real problem I have with Kylo Ren is he chose the wrong time to reveal his face. I think it would have been a much more capturing moment if he removed his helmet for the first time for the one person causing his struggle between the light and dark side. In the end, choosing the dark and killing Han Solo. But, apart from that, every time he put on the helmet he takes on a whole different persona.

    And obviously getting whooped by Rey is a problem, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm a big fan of Dark Side lore.
    woodchuck wrote: »

    - Poe was just okay, too. again, nothing remarkable. nothing stands out. nothing unique.

    Wow, I thought Poe was badass with some great acting. Wow.... shocked that you feel that way.



    Vader was also held back by Palpatine because Palpatine knew he would one day be more powerful than him he mentions this to yoda in their last fight. So I agree Vader was a obedient puppet and like you I like Kylo the uncontrolled nature of his character and rage was awesome. His emotions were distraught he wasn't a whiny baby his voice was a little soft so I do have to say I'm glad the mask altered his voice
  • Lokorian
    29 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Lokorian wrote: »
    They have the vision leaked on YouTube I've seen the movie 3 times and watch the vision a lot because I too at first didn't think it was the falcon but after seeing 2 more times in theatre and watching the YouTube video a few times to re examine when it turns to head towards the horizon it looks like the front of the falcon

    You may want to watch the movie again then. There are two round thrusters/engines on the back on the ship. It's 100% not the Falcon, haha.

    Untitled_zpsefqyldfw.png

    If you actually saw the movie, you would know that there is literally, without a doubt, no comparison between ships. Rofl. The fact that you actually think it's the Falcon is pretty laughable. Oh boy. Haha.

    Edit: Just wanted to say I've seen the movie three times as well. All in IMAX theaters, not some fuzzy bootleg copies like you probably seen. ROFL. Also, added picture.


    Ok well right at the end when it turns it looked like the falcon briefly but to be honest it kinda looks like an airspeeder. I screen shotted things but can't get them to post. Also after a close look it's not luke it's some dude with a helmet and it's not a light saber but some sort of sword thing I got the pic with it showing and pic with the handle in guys hand. I also screen shotted where it Luke is deactivating r2 after thinking about it more the ashes and sparks resemble those of when he burned his father when he died, so this scene could very well be Luke's padawans being burned after the Knights of ren slaughtered them.
  • imarobbiepie
    41 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    add the tag around the hyper link of the image.
    [img][/img]
    

    The Youtube video is really low quality. In the actual movie, it looks nothing like the Falcon.
  • I'm under the impression that Rey is Luke's daughter though since everyone claims jaina and Darth cadeus are no longer valid due to Disney it's only logical thing left. It just sucks so much lore is literally invalid now one of my favorite books was Omen
  • woodchuck
    53 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Although, I do agree on a lot of what you said, I still really like Kylo. I hate myself for saying this, but apart of me likes him even more than Vader. I feel like Kylo was everything Vader wasn't. I have to strongly degree with Kylo not being intimidating. Throughout the original trilogy we see Vader cool, calm, collective. Sure, we see him force choke some people and that's awesome. But never have we seen him lash out from pure anger. I love the anger displayed by Kylo Ren in two scenes in the movies. We all know anger fuels the dark side and lets be honest, when has Vader showed that much frustration and anger to the point where he wants to destroy everything like that? Kylo Ren was unbalanced and visibly powerful and that's pretty scary, IMO. To me, Vader was a obedient puppet that knew his limitations and restrictions and never step foot outside those boundaries.

    hi, i understand what you're saying, but i guess i had a different interpretation. when Kylo lost his cool and started lashing out his lightsaber at the control panel and basically destroying stuff, i didn't see that as being menacing or fearful at all. i saw it as a temper tantrum like a child that lacks maturity, and therefore without self-control, refinement, and ultimately real power. for this reason, Vader and Maul are much more frightening to me, they are in control all of the time. Kylo's inability to keep his cool is a weakness that a skillful adversary can exploit.

    but meh, i think i was mostly put off by Kylo being played by Adam Driver, lol. i kept thinking it's the goofy hippie dude from that other movie i saw him in.
    The only real problem I have with Kylo Ren is he chose the wrong time to reveal his face. I think it would have been a much more capturing moment if he removed his helmet for the first time for the one person causing his struggle between the light and dark side. In the end, choosing the dark and killing Han Solo. But, apart from that, every time he put on the helmet he takes on a whole different persona.

    And obviously getting whooped by Rey is a problem, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm a big fan of Dark Side lore.

    really great point. 100% agree. the timing of Kylo's unmasking was bad. Why would he reveal himself to Rey? i thought this was illogical, unjustified and unnecessary. it would have been much more appropriate if he unmasked in front of Han during their confrontation on the catwalk.
    Wow, I thought Poe was badass with some great acting. Wow.... shocked that you feel that way.

    oh i liked the actor and the acting for Poe. Oscar Isaac is a good actor. but i guess becoz Poe didn't have that much screen time i didn't feel he was special or significant. to me, he is just a side character like Finn, and i have little to no interest in unlocking their SWGoH characters (there's a lot of other characters ahead of them for me).

    maybe they will have bigger roles and show more significance in the future movies that may change my mind, but that's how i feel about them now.

    Rey is the best thing about TFA. i'm probably biased towards her, but i have a soft spot for the strong loner type characters for personal reasons.

    the OP mentioned that much of TFA's plot is like nothing new and seems like a repetitive rehash of many things we've seen in the previous movies, but i don't have a problem with that. even George Lucas revealed that his inspiration for the Star Wars saga came from studying the great mythologies and tragedies and realizing the common archetypes of these works. that is why Star Wars was an instant classic. there is just something about origin stories, and the struggle between good and bad that doesn't fail to captivate. it is formulaic, but i don't have any problem with this.

    that's why they keep remaking origiin movies over and over like Spiderman and Batman and Superman, etc... and TFA is yet another origin story unfolding, the cycle continues but with new and emerging characters.
  • Ok so here is my fan theory which will explain a lot of plotholes and make the upcoming movies very very interesting.
    There should be a reason why we are left with so much questions and there are 2 more movies coming out. I had the feeling this is a transition movie in which Disney played it safe. They have to please the old fans and reach out to a new generation .

    Anyway there are many possibilities this can be played out. We all know the Snoke is Plagious theory by now which answers a lot of questions prequelwise as well. I was thinking about Kylo Ren, what if he is a double agent. The only way he (and Luke) decided to kill Snoke was to gain his trust and train under him.
    This way he can kill snoke! That's why he is so conflicted in killing Han. He doesn't want to but for Snoke to complete his training (aka being able to kill him) he has to.
    If Rey really is a Skywalker, Kylo probably already knows. Maybe the jedi slaughter at the temple was all made up so Kylo could turn to Snoke.
    Kylo surely knows that Vader went to the light side and killed Sidious at the end of ROTJ. I'm sure he and Luke made this plan. That's why he wanted Rey to be his apprentice. He knows he can't take Snoke alone and that's why he asks Rey to let him train her.
    I have a feeling this will turn out to be a movie where Dark (kylo) and Light (Rey) will have to work together to overcome the ultimate evil which is Plagious.

    Now considering the Plagious theory, if he was able to resurrect or reincarnate himself, a big force will escape from this proces. Remember Anakins mother said that Anakin had no father (sequal plothole)?
    What if he got created because of Snoke/Plagious reincarnating/resurrecting and that he was supposed to bring balance to the force which he obviously did by eliminating the Jedi which were stronger than the Sith at that moment (balance is as much light as dark side). Remember the Jedi council was close in taking over for their own purposes.
    Imo this is what true balance means and this is why Luke and Kylo might set up this plan to kil Snoke.

    It's all speculating but wouldn't it be awesome if this turned out to be true? Would explain a lot of plotholes in this movie and the prequels as well.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • George Lucas did have a few things he was gonna do but never went into the movies
    1. Sidious is Anakins father by manipulating midi chlorians like he learned from Plagueis.
    2. Jar jar was suppose to be Plagueis reincarnated
    3. Vader and boba fet were gonna be brothers

    Maul is my favorite, me trained as an assassin to kill Jedi, he was done movie wise before his time but brought to light in clone wars. Even in clone wars sidious only killed savage and left maul alive saying I have other plans for you, could this mean we could see maul come back? I hope so. Sidious did not die either well according to the lore that is now dead until the padawans of Luke helped kill his soul.

    There are so much more that could be great films especially the fate of the Jedi books. Omen would be a great book and we would get to see a female Sith lead character EPIC!!!
  • imarobbiepie
    41 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    CronozNL wrote: »
    Ok so here is my fan theory which will explain a lot of plotholes and make the upcoming movies very very interesting.
    There should be a reason why we are left with so much questions and there are 2 more movies coming out. I had the feeling this is a transition movie in which Disney played it safe. They have to please the old fans and reach out to a new generation .

    Anyway there are many possibilities this can be played out. We all know the Snoke is Plagious theory by now which answers a lot of questions prequelwise as well. I was thinking about Kylo Ren, what if he is a double agent. The only way he (and Luke) decided to kill Snoke was to gain his trust and train under him.
    This way he can kill snoke! That's why he is so conflicted in killing Han. He doesn't want to but for Snoke to complete his training (aka being able to kill him) he has to.
    If Rey really is a Skywalker, Kylo probably already knows. Maybe the jedi slaughter at the temple was all made up so Kylo could turn to Snoke.
    Kylo surely knows that Vader went to the light side and killed Sidious at the end of ROTJ. I'm sure he and Luke made this plan. That's why he wanted Rey to be his apprentice. He knows he can't take Snoke alone and that's why he asks Rey to let him train her.
    I have a feeling this will turn out to be a movie where Dark (kylo) and Light (Rey) will have to work together to overcome the ultimate evil which is Plagious.

    Now considering the Plagious theory, if he was able to resurrect or reincarnate himself, a big force will escape from this proces. Remember Anakins mother said that Anakin had no father (sequal plothole)?
    What if he got created because of Snoke/Plagious reincarnating/resurrecting and that he was supposed to bring balance to the force which he obviously did by eliminating the Jedi which were stronger than the Sith at that moment (balance is as much light as dark side). Remember the Jedi council was close in taking over for their own purposes.
    Imo this is what true balance means and this is why Luke and Kylo might set up this plan to kil Snoke.

    It's all speculating but wouldn't it be awesome if this turned out to be true? Would explain a lot of plotholes in this movie and the prequels as well.

    This theory seems a little far fetched to me.
    I just want to shed on light on a few things. First, J. J. Abram already comfirmed that Kylo worrships the Vader that he was and believes that he was suduced by the light and turned back unwillingly.

    Next, I don't why, but I'm completely okay with Snoke not being Plagueis. I mean... There's some evidence that suggests he could be Plagueis. For example, the music, and the mentioning of Snoke being wise. I do agree it was oddly placed and makes you wonder. However, it is by all means far from being indisputable.

    I feel like if it was Darth Plagueis, why would he need an alas? Why not appoint Kylo as Darth, if he is your apprentice. We all know Kylo is a part of this organization called the Knights of Ren. And J. J. has already comfirmed that Kylo isn't a Sith. And the Knight of Ren are obsessed with dark side lore, artifacts, trinkets, ect... I'm okay with the theory that Kylo just unleashed pandora's box and Snoke being a brand new character during his search for artifacts/Vader's helmet.
  • honestly all I could think was, "please, Kylo... Put your helmet back on."
  • I just read this whole thread lol. That leaves me with little time for me to write an opinion, but I will say Qeltar hit on just about every issue I had with this movie. I just pray JJ gets original with the next two in the trilogy and make sense of some of this jargon.

    I just wish for once they would make a Sith apprentice who was just a super psycho sinister badass who goes dark and never looks back. Is that too much to ask?
  • @OregonWeed
    JJ isn't directing the next movie. He does have some co producing directing stuff tho. About a Sith apprentice that you described we had those in Vader (a long time), Maul, Dooku, Grievious and Sidious so throughout the 6 movies we never seen anything like Kylo ^^
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Varlie
    1286 posts Member
    I've only skimmed over this thread but it looks like valid points being made both for and against the movie. I enjoyed it. I realize that it was very much a retelling of Episode 4 but, with a few exceptions, made the changes needed to make it its own movie.

    Biggest Gripes were the Starkiller weapon and Luke's disappearance.
    How many times will the empire try to make a bigger, badder ultimate weapon and think they will succeed. If you destroy every habitable planet in the know universe, there won't be much left to rule.
    I can understand him being upset at his nephews betrayal but to just give up and go into hiding doesn't make sense given what he knows of Vader. He should be hunting Kylo down instead of the other way around. That being said, I can understand how that would have altered everything else in the movie.


    A lot of people don't like how Rey beat Kylo with the light sabers. I've seen the movie 4 times so far and the first half to 3/4 of the fight she was losing. She handled the saber as if she would the staff using mainly thrusts and wide-open swings. It was only when she relaxed and let the force guide her as she did a few times in the movie. The first time when Kylo was interrogating her, you can see a visual relaxation when she realized where she could not only block him but fight back. The second was when she used the force suggestion with the stormtrooper. Rey knows how to fight and she's a survivor. When you combine that with the fact that Kylo is not a true sith or even full jedi - he quit his training early and relied on the fact that he could control the force when his opponents couldn't he became sloppy - his fighting style was very overbearing and when Rey gave into the force she was able to block his attacks and find the openings (there were a lot) that Kylo exposed himself to.
  • Wispsi
    255 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    I am with Varlie on this one, I liked it and maybe they have a good explanation as to why luke just ran off, even if he did just **** up with his nephew, instead of like...trying to fix it? After the lengths he goes to helping Vader who he never even knew...you would have thought he would have tried harder for a family member he has known for years and felt apparently felt responsible for...maybe...

    but planet gun...thats just too much :( didnt it take them 20 years just to build the death star anyway during the height of the empire? Then after losing the emperor and a load of factions rising up they scale the size up 50x and add on it devours a star every shot? it doesnt even look like it can move :/

    More importantly...it does not look like it can stay still....yet fires on such a huge scale with the most incredible amount of accuracy...yeah a planet is big but to hit each planet individually without missing with all that shaking, even if the planet itself is not being moved after expelling the energy of a star over a matter of seconds...over that massive a distance...just what? why? being technologically advanced does not mean they have to be completely **** with concepts. I would have actually preferred, a huge amount, if they had just made another bigger deathstar...or a deathstar like weapon on a planet to make it bigger (although if they are adding lasers to each other then size is not really the issue it is just how many lasers shoot into it at once? I dunno I dont do this kind of thing often myself, never really thought about the matter till now).
    Post edited by Wispsi on
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Did anyone who watched the movie notice the blatant lampshade hanging (that's clickable, this forum has terrible CSS) related to Death Star the Third? I actually laughed, though at this point the recycling from earlier movies was so common and so obvious that nothing surprised me.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Varlie
    1286 posts Member
    Oh, you mean the fact that they have an earth size planet that has been hollowed out and designed to drain the sun that it orbits so that it can destroy planets or stars in other sectors while all the planets in the system that just lost its sun quickly lose orbit and promptly die as well?

    And, as Wispsi said, doesn't appear to have any source of propulsion so it suffers the same fate.

    Nope, I missed that lampshade.
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Whew, finally saw the movie so I got to read this long thread! ;)

    My wife and I have many of the same complaints as voiced nicely above. We're old-school SW fans from the E4 generation. I'm a little more forgiving, and generally enjoyed the whole movie though. It was funny, had great action, good new characters (ok, Ren was weak), a powerfully painful loss of a beloved character.

    Yes, there were many flaws. (No one else is angry about the light-speed landing approach? Hello, planetary mass shadow anyone?? Are Interdictors just chopped liver now?)

    But the thing that disappoints me the most, is the total destruction of all books post-E6. I've read pretty much every novel after ROTJ, and there are wonderful ones. The Solo kids, Ben and Mara, the amazing Vong war with the tragic character losses and heroism, fantastic GA Thrawn, Kyp Duron, Wedge and the awesome Rogue/Wraith Squadrons.

    All gone. That makes me miserable.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    The lampshading is when some guy at the mission table says "it's another death star" and Han later says "How do we blow it up? There's always a way to blow it up." :)
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Shizmoo
    99 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    All the characters are weaklings that don't deserve their in game power. The movie wasn't that good, everything felt rushed and repeated. I mean really, recreating the Death Star and fighter pilot blowing it up. Kylo removing his mask often. I know it's the beginning of a trilogy and they usually suck, but I give it a meh. There are much better sci fi films out
  • Nothing about Kylo Ren was intimidating, well everything after him stopping the laser beam that ruined everything having him stop the laser beam made me think he was gonna be a beast, & he just wasnt temper tantrums was not a smart way to make him look "Powerful" Again I loved the movie, & im okay with it being similiar to the original but the worst thing about this movie is Kylo Ren. I will never understand why Critics praise adam driver in there reviews Kylo Ren was the worst villain in any star wars ever. They can bring Jar Jar back & make him a villain & he'd be more intimidating then kylo ren. Clumsiness & all
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