How to improve GA

_Ben
134 posts Member
I posted this thread on reddit but the responses I got didn't really tie back to the main point I was trying to make, so I want to see if the forum reacts differently to it. I want to show there is light at the end of the tunnel for GA, but it needs some improvements from it's current format. Below is my full post and suggestions - apologies if you read the same thing on reddit but I want to put a different spin on this. This is supposed to be my constructive feedback on how to improve GA.


“Who is the greatest player in all of Star WarsTM: Galaxy of Heroes? Who is the greatest player in all of the galaxy?”


The above quote is directly from the Road Ahead blog post at the end of 2018 - it laid out the template for what promised to be one of the most ambitious and exciting PvP game modes yet. When GA first launched, it had so much potential to offer a lot to the player base who enjoy competitive PvP gameplay in this game - in reality, I think it has massively failed to deliver on what it set out to be. I just wanted to detail a few reasons why I think this game mode has failed to deliver on a lot of it's original promises and what I think could be done better to improve it.

First, to set the scene...

What frustrates me about GA:

1) Opponents who don't attack - probably my one biggest frustration with GA is facing opponents who don't attack. At 4m GP, I pride myself on being very competitive and relatively lean in my progression and roster development. I've geared and farms toons to help my guild in raids and help stay top of squad & fleet arena and developed my roster prominently with a PvP focus. However, to put all of this work into my characters, and for my opponents in GA to be too lazy or not want to attack me frustrates me greatly - it's basically anti-game. Sure, I don't mind picking up the essentially free rewards, but I really want to know how my squads are performing and whether the characters I've invested countless resources into were ultimately worth it. That's the point in this game after all, isn't it?!

2) Opponents who don't set defence - I've only encountered this once so far, but from what I've heard it's fairly common. Again, anti-game. What is the point in actively signing up for a game mode if you aren't going to bother? Again, don't get me wrong - I'm happy for the free rewards, I'm happy to complete my quests quicker than maybe I would have other wise. But people who don't attack or set defence are ruining the experience for the other players.

3) Poor matchmaking algorithm - following on from some of the above, and perhaps in many ways directly related is the fact that in most instances I far outmatch my opponent. Can we do more to make sure there isn't such a disparity in zeta's/g12 toons/mods or even arena ranks? I feel this would greatly improve the game mode and motivate more people to play.

4) Each event is in isolation / lack of a bigger picture - if you take the opening quote of my post literally, then it implies that grand arena was designed to show who the strongest players are in all of SWGOH. What we have now is far from what was promised. In reality, we are pitted again seven other players, the only common factor amongst the groupings is the fact that we all have very similar GP (GP is not an indication of strength!). No matter where I finish in my grouping, be it first or last, it does not lead to me getting better or worse match ups in the next GA. At the end of every GA, the event ends, and that's it - there is no "bigger picture". I cannot tell really how I fair against other players - I just know I was better or worse than the other 7 I got randomly matched against. For me, this is a huge miss in what GA could have offered.


My ultimate wish for GA:

What I would really like to see, and it relates to point 4 above, is a "bigger picture" to GA. I think this could really improve the matchmaking, competitiveness and overall experience of the game mode. Much like in TW, we have a guild ranking leaderboard by GP defeated - why not have something similar for GA?

What I am proposing is a virtual GP or GP multiplier for players individual GP. Essentially - you win a GA matchup, you get a bigger multiplier or virtual GP score. You lose a GA match up, you get a negative multiplier or you lose virtual GP. I'm not expert on algorithms, but let me try and demonstrate a simple example:

I start at 4m GP, and I beat another player with 4m GP - for winning I gain a GP multiplier of 1.01, and my new GP is 4.04m GP. My defeated opponent gains a GP multiplier of 0.99 (i.e. 1 - 0.01) , their new GP is 3.96m GP. This now means I can move on to facing a potentially stronger opponent in my next match. The virtual GP will basically account for the fact that your roster can compete above its "real" level and should lead to a better matchup going forwards. If this was played out over a number of matchups (weeks, months), it would eventually plateau to a much fairer point where players would not get ridiculously skewed matchups but actually matched with players closer to their real ability in the game.

For those note familiar with an ELO style rating system, please read more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

It would also lead to the "bigger picture" because you would also be able to rank every player in the game, new or old, based on their virtual GP. Hence we could get a true global leaderboard.

I know it's not perfect, but I would really like CG to at least re-look at how GA is working and the experience the players are having with this game mode. I would put my house on the fact that participation (both those who sign up actively, and those who sign up and then do nothing) has fallen since GA was launched, and I would really like to see this addressed....

Replies

  • Jpolson43
    208 posts Member
    edited April 2019
    I read the first paragraph then was going to recommend an Elo rating system. Good thing I scanned the rest. I'm not sure, but it seems like that is what they use for TW. Tough to tell.
  • I would like a leader board of some kind
  • Vertigo
    4496 posts Member
    I would like a leader board of some kind

    A leaderboard along the lines of TW style would be interesting or just total number of GAs entered and total # of round victories. If they started putting higher ranked people against other higher ranked people they would have to increase the rewards for the higher ranks because those people already proved they were more competitive so the chance of loosing would be greater and winning would be good up until a certain point where you'd stop getting as much for rewards.
  • _Ben wrote: »
    I posted this thread on reddit but the responses I got didn't really tie back to the main point I was trying to make, so I want to see if the forum reacts differently to it. I want to show there is light at the end of the tunnel for GA, but it needs some improvements from it's current format. Below is my full post and suggestions - apologies if you read the same thing on reddit but I want to put a different spin on this. This is supposed to be my constructive feedback on how to improve GA.


    “Who is the greatest player in all of Star WarsTM: Galaxy of Heroes? Who is the greatest player in all of the galaxy?”


    The above quote is directly from the Road Ahead blog post at the end of 2018 - it laid out the template for what promised to be one of the most ambitious and exciting PvP game modes yet. When GA first launched, it had so much potential to offer a lot to the player base who enjoy competitive PvP gameplay in this game - in reality, I think it has massively failed to deliver on what it set out to be. I just wanted to detail a few reasons why I think this game mode has failed to deliver on a lot of it's original promises and what I think could be done better to improve it.

    First, to set the scene...

    What frustrates me about GA:

    1) Opponents who don't attack - probably my one biggest frustration with GA is facing opponents who don't attack. At 4m GP, I pride myself on being very competitive and relatively lean in my progression and roster development. I've geared and farms toons to help my guild in raids and help stay top of squad & fleet arena and developed my roster prominently with a PvP focus. However, to put all of this work into my characters, and for my opponents in GA to be too lazy or not want to attack me frustrates me greatly - it's basically anti-game. Sure, I don't mind picking up the essentially free rewards, but I really want to know how my squads are performing and whether the characters I've invested countless resources into were ultimately worth it. That's the point in this game after all, isn't it?!

    2) Opponents who don't set defence - I've only encountered this once so far, but from what I've heard it's fairly common. Again, anti-game. What is the point in actively signing up for a game mode if you aren't going to bother? Again, don't get me wrong - I'm happy for the free rewards, I'm happy to complete my quests quicker than maybe I would have other wise. But people who don't attack or set defence are ruining the experience for the other players.

    3) Poor matchmaking algorithm - following on from some of the above, and perhaps in many ways directly related is the fact that in most instances I far outmatch my opponent. Can we do more to make sure there isn't such a disparity in zeta's/g12 toons/mods or even arena ranks? I feel this would greatly improve the game mode and motivate more people to play.

    4) Each event is in isolation / lack of a bigger picture - if you take the opening quote of my post literally, then it implies that grand arena was designed to show who the strongest players are in all of SWGOH. What we have now is far from what was promised. In reality, we are pitted again seven other players, the only common factor amongst the groupings is the fact that we all have very similar GP (GP is not an indication of strength!). No matter where I finish in my grouping, be it first or last, it does not lead to me getting better or worse match ups in the next GA. At the end of every GA, the event ends, and that's it - there is no "bigger picture". I cannot tell really how I fair against other players - I just know I was better or worse than the other 7 I got randomly matched against. For me, this is a huge miss in what GA could have offered.


    My ultimate wish for GA:

    What I would really like to see, and it relates to point 4 above, is a "bigger picture" to GA. I think this could really improve the matchmaking, competitiveness and overall experience of the game mode. Much like in TW, we have a guild ranking leaderboard by GP defeated - why not have something similar for GA?

    What I am proposing is a virtual GP or GP multiplier for players individual GP. Essentially - you win a GA matchup, you get a bigger multiplier or virtual GP score. You lose a GA match up, you get a negative multiplier or you lose virtual GP. I'm not expert on algorithms, but let me try and demonstrate a simple example:

    I start at 4m GP, and I beat another player with 4m GP - for winning I gain a GP multiplier of 1.01, and my new GP is 4.04m GP. My defeated opponent gains a GP multiplier of 0.99 (i.e. 1 - 0.01) , their new GP is 3.96m GP. This now means I can move on to facing a potentially stronger opponent in my next match. The virtual GP will basically account for the fact that your roster can compete above its "real" level and should lead to a better matchup going forwards. If this was played out over a number of matchups (weeks, months), it would eventually plateau to a much fairer point where players would not get ridiculously skewed matchups but actually matched with players closer to their real ability in the game.

    For those note familiar with an ELO style rating system, please read more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

    It would also lead to the "bigger picture" because you would also be able to rank every player in the game, new or old, based on their virtual GP. Hence we could get a true global leaderboard.

    I know it's not perfect, but I would really like CG to at least re-look at how GA is working and the experience the players are having with this game mode. I would put my house on the fact that participation (both those who sign up actively, and those who sign up and then do nothing) has fallen since GA was launched, and I would really like to see this addressed....

    1- What exactly do you expect CG to do about that? auto attacks? No attacks are a result of players not taking action and independent from the developer's control.

    2- Similar to above. That is a player joining and not participating. But no longer relevant since they patched the game to auto-deploy defenses.

    3- This is your answer to who is the better player. If you have a rivaling galactic power to another player, that means you have invested as much as them. You outmatching them is a result of your progression being more focused, getting more zeta's, gearing more to gear 12, not leveling every single character. This game is about resource management, and grande arena is a test of how you've done. Modding, gearing, ability to play, all factor into it. no one promised this mode to be easy on people.

    4- This game mode is a test of who is the best in terms of rosters. The number one in the arena comes down to meta teams and the fastest speed mods. that won't guarantee a victory in grande arena. I think it goes without saying that a 1 mill gp wouldn't beat a 4 mill gp player. They have to separate players somehow.
    let's say you win, and win again and keep on winning to get to the top. You would plateau and eventually be facing the same players in a grudge match.
  • You know what frustrates me?

    By the time I get to play GA, 90% of the time my opponent has cleared the board. My only chance at winning is if I clear them in terms of one or two more characters surviving a single fight. The difference in victory being a hand full of points... so why on earth should I even deal with that uphill grind fest?

    You want people to fight, maybe don’t advertise just how badly they’ve been beaten in a real time score measurement...

    maybe make the darn rewards based on cleared teams and not on bland rankings at the end that mean nothing next week...

    maybe... just maybe... make it so we can save defenses between GA and TWs so it’s not work to redo them every time...

    Maybe stop crapping on last place, so if we land there out of trying we don’t feel like we wasted our lives... like participating gets you a zeta... rather than last place jus5 handing out laughable rewards.

    There’s so much you could do to make people want to play, but it won’t happen they gotta get Malek ready to crap on the arena...
  • I agree that the execution of GA is very poor compared to what was promised. I’ve talked about matchmaking to my own exhaustion and you’ve touched on it here, so I won’t discuss it much except to say that it’s currently leading to some very boring matchups. Example:

    My previous 6 opponents has led to 5 matches that I knew the outcome before I even set defense.

    Match1: opponent had more meta toons, more speed (by far), and more g12s —> I lost
    Match 2: exact opposite of match 1 —> I won and opponent had randomized defense and didn’t attack
    Match 3: same as match 2 —> I won and opponent didn’t attack
    Match 4: close match but I had a better roster —> I got overconfident on offense, messed up, and lost
    Match 5: same as match 2 —> I won and opponent didn’t try
    Match 6: same as match 2 —> I would probably quit the game if I lost. Opponent shouldn’t beat my second rate defenses and needs to average a 61 on O

    One thing I’d like to see to improve this mode is to expand defense slots so that your whole roster becomes relevant (we are being matched by the whole roster). This last GA, I needed 12 to 13 teams total. At 2 million squad GP, that’s a very small portion of what most people have available. I want to use my crappy Jedi on offense!!!

    To the comment on the ELO system, I played clash royale which used it and it made matches a lot better than we see in GA. But I was just in the middle of the upper rankings. I read that people on top hated the system.

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Kithryn wrote: »
    You know what frustrates me?

    By the time I get to play GA, 90% of the time my opponent has cleared the board. My only chance at winning is if I clear them in terms of one or two more characters surviving a single fight. The difference in victory being a hand full of points... so why on earth should I even deal with that uphill grind fest?

    You want people to fight, maybe don’t advertise just how badly they’ve been beaten in a real time score measurement...

    Or perhaps give players some other incentive to battle, f.ex. by adding a 100k credits reward for each team, they defeat.
    maybe make the darn rewards based on cleared teams and not on bland rankings at the end that mean nothing next week...

    Next week rankings mean exactly as much as teams cleared.

    How many teams you defeat also depends on the applied strategy - not only on your strength. If both players go heavy on defense, they may not defeat many teams. Players going light on defense most likely clear the board. Basing rewards on the amount if teams defeated, doesn't reflect who's the stronger player(s).
    GA is about defeating your opponent in each round.
    maybe... just maybe... make it so we can save defenses between GA and TWs so it’s not work to redo them every time...

    With squad management it only takes a minute to copy your defense.
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